Ten Things About Slavery

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No one knows when slavery started, but it seems to have been a part of human civilization from the start. There is evidence of slavery in the earliest civilizations along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, the Nile in Egypt, the Indus Valley in India, and China’s Yangtze River Valley. This suggests slavery was integral to the establishment of large-scale settlements.

Slavery was the norm in the world until European Protestants decided it was immoral and began to ban it. Until the Protestant nations of Europe rose to power, slavery was tolerated by Christians. The Catholic Church opposed the treatment of African slaves in the New World but was not opposed to slavery. It was the Protestants who went the next step and demanded the end of slavery.

Of course, slavery was not what modern people imagine. Slaves often had rights and there were rules for how slaves must be treated. The very first law codes were created to deal with the treatment of slaves. This makes sense since if there are a lot of slaves, there is the risk of a slave revolt, so keeping the slave classes happy was always going to be a primary consideration for society.

This was true in the American South. Contrary to the nonsense version of history taught in schools and popularized through movies and television, the African slaves in North America were treated well. They were valuable property, one of the most lucrative investments in the New World, so slave owners took care of them. A happy slave was a productive and profitable slave.

In fact, slaves were much more productive than the freemen. Contrary to the cartoon version of history, the plantation owners cared more about their slaves than the white workers on the plantation. One reason for that is slavery as a form of labor was much more productive than paid labor. The slave owner was more likely to have a hired man whipped than to whip one of his slaves.

That is the show this week. It is about the economic reality of slavery in the South leading up to the Civil War. The source for this information is an old book titled, Time on the Cross: The Economics of American Negro Slavery by the economists Robert Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman. It is a great work of revisionist history, a skill that we will need to hone, given that our official history is mostly nonsense.

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This Week’s Show

Contents

  • Intro
  • Cartoon Version of Slavery
  • Time On The Cross
  • Ten Points About Slavery
  • Final Thoughts

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

188 Comments

RealityRules #454357 April 25, 2025 43
J. Burden and George Bagby did some excellent shows on the reality of slavery. Apparently the vast majority was not plantation slavery, but small farms. It also gets in to the health and diet aspects. The Africans in America working as slaves had far higher protein intake and far better health than European serfs and factory workers.Two generations forfeited our entire inheritance through guilt over some evil that by and large never was. Even the Klan rose up in response to horrific and violent abuse during Reconstruction. It rose up in response to the Waukesha’s Michael Browns and Karmelo Anthony and his entourage and judges of their day. Nothing is new under the sun. We’ve just been psy-op’d into an inversion of the old things that happened. Bagby has some good episodes on that period of history as well.As for history, Trump and Vance better undertake a formalized project. Culture and history are transmitted and en masse, flow from power. The Smithstonian features on their web site almost nothing American. Over in the black museum, they feature Nat Turner’s bible and talk about him as a hero. We can and must take responsibility for direct transmission of our history to our people. However, if we do not take power and impose its transmission on the society at large, than we will just be a small niche that may know the truth, but it won’t matter if it can’t be used to command the popular will.
Alzaebo #454384 April 25, 2025 -21
“…generations forfeited our entire inheritance through guilt over some evil that by and large never was.” Oh, really? Please, tell me more…do you have any other examples, perhaps?
tashtego #454421 April 25, 2025 26
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the enemy it is that truth is whatever you want to define it to be. I hold myself to the standard of the enemy when dealing with the enemy. There was no slavery of blacks in America. The blacks flew over here in their flying saucers from Wakanda after they got bored of building pyramids in Egypt etc. Conflict between blacks and whites on the continent began when whites started to arrive escaping from the black despot kings James and Charles.
Ostei Kozelskii #454448 April 25, 2025 9
There’s only one flaw with that history–Wakanda wasn’t established until a couple hundred yearsafterthe Nuggras built the last pyramid in Egypt. Otherwise, spot on.
Eloi #454455 April 25, 2025 3
Wrong, retard. The pyramids were built in the form of Wakandan spaceships, so they PRECEDED the pyramids.
tashtego #454485 April 25, 2025 6
don’t feel constrained to observe the white oppressor colonizer misogynist ‘linear’ thinking!
Vizzini #454525 April 26, 2025 4
Good point. Rationality and reason are White Supremacy.
Ostei Kozelskii #454531 April 26, 2025 4
So is civilization, which is why it must be destroyed.
Ploppy #454466 April 25, 2025 5
I liken it to what I imagine my husky would tell everyone if she could talk: “No, massa never fed me or gave me expensive toys and treats or spent every fucking morning at the dog park talking to a bunch of boring old people just so I could frolic and get humped by all the boy dogs.”
Vizzini #454526 April 26, 2025 4
Hope she’s not one of those Doberman-burners.
Steve #454497 April 25, 2025 3
“If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the enemy it is that truth is whatever you want to define it to be.” And I’ve learned from my Savior that the truth is what it is, regardless of what I might want it to be…
NoName #454509 April 26, 2025 4
If you throw Sex-Slavery into the recipe,a few hours ago,Virginia Giuffre was ritually suicided. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cql67qk0dd3o Just like Jeffrey Epstein. Meanwhile, Robert Maxwell’s daughter, Ghislaine, is still stealing oxygen from the atmosphere. That would be Ian Robert Maxwell, aka,“Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch”.
Vizzini #454524 April 26, 2025 4
It rose up in response to the Waukesha’s Michael Browns and Karmelo Anthony and his entourage and judges of their day. Don’t forget the carpet baggers and race traitors eager to exploit Southern Whites under the reconstruction regime.
Xman #454371 April 25, 2025 31
Nobody had a more nuanced and accurate understanding of slavery than Jefferson. He understood that slavery was a violation of the rights of Africans, and that it had a negative effect on whites as well. Yet he also understood that Negroes were intellectually inferior to whites and that the races could never successfully mix when emancipation occurred. Consequently he advocated the deportation of Negroes once freed.Jefferson also understood the paternalistic aspects of Southern slavery, and pointed out inNotes on the State of Virginiathat it was much more benign than Roman slavery.The aspect of the slavery question that is almost always overlooked in the U.S. is that Northern industrial capitalists preferred cheap, disposable, “free” immigrant labor (to which they had not obligation beyond payday) to the semi-feudal, paternalistic obligation of the Southern plantation owner had over his estate.If an Irish laborer died in your factory, or his children were starving, no big deal, you hired another one down at the docks. Negro slaves, especially house Negroes, were often treated much better.
RealityRules #454382 April 25, 2025 28
From 250,000 people to 45 million is quite a genocide. I have heard that one of the factors for the failure of the American Colonization Society was the sheer numbers of blacks that needed to get to Liberia.It was classic America. You can spend time and energy solving a civilizational problem and lay the groundwork for an enternal paradise on a geographically perfect continent. Or you can spend your time making a lot of money as fast as you can and kick the can down the road fat and happy and leave a far bigger and difficult to solve problem for your kids to deal with.Here we are now. It is a tragedy.
Compsci #454391 April 25, 2025 9
Two problems with “back to Liberia: 1) It cost money and the ex-slave problem was in the South, so screw them, and 2) Liberia was allowed to govern themselves. It should have been colonized (governed) by American Whites for a century or more as the former slaves were shipped back. Of course, that takes money too.
Horace #454416 April 25, 2025 29
Merchant rule in the West must end for all time. Merchants along with farmers comprise the two indispensable occupations necessary for settled civilization, but the mentality that makes a good merchant makes an utterly terrible architect and manager of civilization.It’s why Russia is kicking the tranny ass of the GAE. Their merchants have been unleashed to do merchant things (10% flat tax, anyone?) and grow stinking rich, but they are not allowed to rule. ‘Their’ merchants are not the architects and managers of the Russian civilizational project.Reformist merchants led by Pres. Trump act to preserve the economic system under which they grew their wealth, not the American people to whom said economic system should serve. It’s one of the reasons why Pres. Trump’s project will, in the end, fail. However, the attempt and its inevitable failure are necessary steps along the path back to the only thing that will work.“Ruin comes when the trader, lifted up by wealth, becomes ruler.” Plato, 367 BC“Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.” Thomas Jefferson“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild, patriarch of the Rothschild banking dynasty
RealityRules #454443 April 25, 2025 7
This is incredibly well stated.
NoName #454506 April 26, 2025 1
Whites didn’t bring the KneeGr0wz to the New World. j00Z BROUGHT THE KNEEGR0WZ TO THE NEW WORLD. Whites were largely just bystanders to The Great Endarkening. It was entirely the work of the j00z. The j00z controlled the entirety of the Trans-Atlantic chattel slave trade industry.
NoName #454523 April 26, 2025 -2
Well there’s at least one JIDF agent, chez Z, doesn’t want the goyim to learn who ackshually controlled the Trans-Atlantic Chattel Slave Trade. And it was a phenomenally profitable Slave Trade for The Tribe; possibly [likely?] the single moast profitable trade The Tribe ever entered into. [Which, in turn, could serve as a means by which to understand why they decided to assassinate Lincoln.]
redbeard #454355 April 25, 2025 24
“Lincoln freed the slaves!” Now we’re all slaves to global capital, thanks a lot asshole. On another note it’s funny when you learn that Irish immigrants in the new world were often used for dangerous work as they were not worth as much as a good african slave.
TempoNick #454365 April 25, 2025 2
I think we should have let them split. We might be a lot better off today. They would be stuck with the poison from all the angry blacks.
Dr_Mantis_Tobbogan_MD #454370 April 25, 2025 15
When I was in college, some of the blacks would give me hell about how my great-great-grandpa was an awful slaveowner. I would let them know that my Irish ancestors dug out the canals in New Orleans and died by the score from the horrible diseases and no one cared because new Irishmen arrived off the boat daily.The black slaves, on the other hand, were valuable because they could generate revenue and could be bought and sold and were well-treated. They would always walk away grumbling to themselves.I also reminded them that because I’m part Irish/part Coonass/part German (with some Scots-Irish too) and Catholic, the KKK hated my people as much as they did the blacks.Reminds me of that movie about that Irish R&B group where one of the members yells “The Irish are the n#####s of Europe!”
Compsci #454386 April 25, 2025 15
If you go back far enough, like typically before the IR, most all of us (90%) can trace our ancestors to those who worked the land. Most did not own such land, but were tied to it through birth in a noble’s principality. You could not leave the land except through permission.You worked the land, turned over a portion (typically 30%) of food produced each year, and for “vacation” you owed the nobleman several weeks of duty/labor on his projects! This does not include the regular wars that noblemen were fond of fighting every period of years, nor the “tith” given to the church.You worked dawn to dusk simply to survive and feed yourself and family, grew old, sickened, and then died. Your eldest son got to take your place. How is this different from slavery? Of course Blacks are too stupid—or duplicitous—to know this and Whites (Spiteful Mutants) hate themselves too much to acknowledge this.
Ostei Kozelskii #454510 April 26, 2025 5
My first semester in grad school I was at a student/faculty mixer and got into a discussion with, among other luminaries, the uni’s reigning god of “African-American” history on the subject of slavery. Both blithely and naively, I related to him that Russian serfs had it worse than negro slaves in the American South. I thought his wooly head was going to explode. And I was fortunate not to get kicked out of the program.
pyrrhus #454375 April 25, 2025 10
Exactly…and when the Irish died, they were dumped in a mass grave, and replaced by more cheap Irish…
tashtego #454430 April 25, 2025 5
The enemy deny this ever happened you know. When I used to try to engage in rational discussion with enemy partisans I’d bring up Irish slaves in Jamaica and the obvious consequences and measurable effects in the population to this day. They just flatly deny it ever happened. I do the same now when dealing with them. There’s nothing to discuss and no common ground for establishing some harmonious equilibrium.
Dr_Mantis_Tobbogan_MD #454467 April 25, 2025 9
Just like no one and I mean no one talks about all of the white Christian slaves kept by the Barbary pirates, with much of it sexual slavery of women. I’m glad we cleaned out that nest of vipers once and for all.
Compsci #454435 April 25, 2025 6
”Exactly…and when the Irish died, they were dumped in a mass grave, and replaced by more cheap Irish…” And yet, where are the “Irish” now? Go to any large Eastern city and they have risen to positions of great wealth and prosperity—they ain’t tossed into a communal grave anymore! And how did our Black population do in the same time period (after emancipation)? Well, not so good. Food for thought.
3 Pipe Problem #454446 April 25, 2025 1
Let them eat potatoes.Sorry, had to
Vizzini #454528 April 26, 2025 1
I dunno. Eat the potato now, or ferment it and drink it later?
Tars Tarkas #454395 April 25, 2025 22
It doesn’t really matter what the economics of slavery were in the 18th and 19th centuries. It is no different than what is going on today. A small group of wealthy elite do what is in their economic interest, regardless of what the consequences to the population as a whole will be.The same type of man who imports foreign slaves totally incompatible with the already existing population will import foreign wage serfs like Mexicans or ship his production equipment to a foreign land and fire all his workers to save a few bucks.This is why controlling the wealthy is one of the most important jobs of the state. Any man who says ‘I can make a few extra bucks destroying this town and shipping production to Shanghai’ should have to answer for such sentiment before he can do it.
Ostei Kozelskii #454402 April 25, 2025 15
Greed is utterly pernicious. And unfortunately, it has always been one of America’s chief hallmarks.
Horace #454418 April 25, 2025 26
I say this as a descendent of the first Americans, by blood English and German, who were American before Americans got their own country, and whose grandsons fought in our Revolution: this project is a failure and it is time to move on to something else, having learned from a civilizational post-mortem. I’m pretty flexible about whatever replaces it because white people can make almost anything work, as long as we avoid the worst mistakes of the our ancestors: no Africans, no Muslims, and absolutely no Jews.
Vizzini #454529 April 26, 2025 7
May I humbly suggest no pajeets?
Stan Wood #454738 April 29, 2025 1
Same and agree. Whites cannot survive democracy. Infiltration has brought genocide by racial replacement.
RealityRules #454364 April 25, 2025 22
“Our history” That is the crux of why this thing failed. Any old interloper could come in and claim to be one of us. Of course, those two guys feel zero guilt and zero shame over America’s past. They were posing as us in order to speak for us. It is a very old trick. A trick that for thousands of years our best were wise to. They practiced exclusion so that interlopers could not plant themselves in our midst, masquerade as us and plant lies and sophisticated guilt and shame and deconstructive narratives within our story.Our history my ass.
Alzaebo #454385 April 25, 2025 -7
“It is a very old trick.” Literally as old as the story of Adam and Eve. The original transgression against the god was our people’s far superior knowledge and prowess. Thus, the story of the Trees. On the one hand, our sciences which they could not understand, whose greatness brought the jealous wrath of the gods. On the other, immortality through fertility, through the womb. Each man will die, but the Tribe lives forever. Thus, the Adam must take the Aryan Eve. Whiteness was the Original Sin. Today, we are told that we all come from black Africans.
ray #454394 April 25, 2025 6
‘The original transgression against the god was our people’s far superior knowledge and prowess’ No, it was not.
terranigma #454481 April 25, 2025 2
I have difficulty parsing the degree to which drugs, demons, and ivory tower narcissism have each scrambled your reality matrix, but it is scrambled to the point where you should get professional help, Alzaebo. It takes a very small, very weak psyche to believe what you believe. The story of the tree is a metaphor for moral relativism before humanity had invented the concept.
Steve #454482 April 25, 2025 0
Always fun to see how people rationalize that story. Particularly since it’s obviously a morality play about Man kicking God off the throne, appropriating to himself the power to define Law. 😉
Casimir #454376 April 25, 2025 20
We Slavs are still waiting for our reparations from the various Ottoman and Arab slave trades all throughout the Middle Ages.
Ostei Kozelskii #454380 April 25, 2025 7
During Ivan Groznyi’s disastrous reign, the Krim Tatars practically emptied southern and eastern Russia of peasants via slave raids.
Steve #454411 April 25, 2025 6
We Vikings chose to demand tribute and plunder rather than reparations.
TempoNick #454484 April 25, 2025 -1
There is an alternative view that the word “Slav” has nothing to do with us being slaves. It is thought by some that the word “slav” was derived from various words related to “slavi” which means praise or worship of God.
Steve #454493 April 25, 2025 3
And finely shredded cabbage, amirite? Cole Slav?
Shotgun Messenger #454499 April 25, 2025 3
Of course ‘Slav’ doesn’t derive from ‘slave’, it can’t because ‘slave’ derives from ‘Slav’.
Stan Wood #454735 April 29, 2025 0
Still happening to this day. Ukrainian and other Slavic girls are kidnapped or lured to Israel where they remain slaves for the duration of their short lives, before they permanently vanish.
Jack Dodson #454409 April 25, 2025 18
Collective/group guilt is a Jewish specialty. It obviously is biting them on the ass now, but for the longest time facilitation of those emotions along with control of media and popular culture diverted attention from the Jews’ key role in American slavery. That is going away fast, and by conflating in the American mind the relatively benign slavery found here with that in, say, Cuba, the Tribe has set itself up for even bigger trouble in the years to come.Closely related to the collective/group guilt propaganda is the myth that whites in the Antebellum American South were impoverished trash dominated by a handful of aristocratic plantation owners. The brilliant novelist Andrew Lytle of the Fugitive Movement provoked elite wrath when he researched the land records of his native Murfreesboro, Tennessee, and found that in the Antebellum Period that the vast majority of people there had the traditional 40-acre plot and did not own slaves. It is therefore quite possible that the Antebellum South had what at the time would have been the nation’s largest middle class albeit in an agricultural context.Although he would have been considered “racist” even when he conducted his research around the time of WWII, that alone did not bring anywhere near the heat down on Lytle that publishing his property findings did. The reason is that the Southern class myth was and is foundational to the purported morality of the Civil War, which in the end is one of the greatest crimes ever perpetuated on a people. Lytle claimed that the Jews and even a few guilt-ridden white Southerners who then controlled NYC publishing would squelch his work, which much later for a brief period was recognized as some of the bestbelles lettresthe United States produced.Finally, Negrophilia has been a bizarre and ignorant impulse throughout American history. Given its African nature, slavery therefore has received distorted and wildly disproportionate attention. This made it easy for evil and deranged New Englanders to turn abolition into another Cromwellian crusade to exterminate perceived evildoers, a project which has never ended and has brought the United States to a point of ruin.
Stan Wood #454740 April 29, 2025 1
… has brought the entire race to the point of extinction.
miforest #454374 April 25, 2025 16
the left has completely obliterated the history of lynchings by convincing us that it was a rachial thing. it was actually a criminal thing. more whites were lynched than blacks. if you raped or murdered someone, the outraged community would often take things into their own hands. whether you were black or white, .there were very few prisons in those times in many areas. prisons cost a lot of money that many communities didn’t have . so flogging, Exile , or hanging were all that was available .
Jeffrey Zoar #454438 April 25, 2025 5
Recent news headlines should have served to make the light bulb go on in at least a few folks’ heads about the necessary place lynching had in society
Dr_Mantis_Tobbogan_MD #454469 April 25, 2025 11
I love how the Left has canonized Emmitt Till, who was supposedly killed for whistling at a white woman. Turns out his father was hung in Italy during WWII for raping and killing an Italian woman. It’s hard to overcome your genetic heritage.
Steve #454494 April 25, 2025 1
“I love how the Left has canonized Emmitt Till, “ Iddn’t that weird. When, in reality, theycarmelizedEmmett Till? And to think my daughter thinks I have a dark sense of humor…
Steve #454495 April 25, 2025 1
My son just calls it, “extra crispy”…
Ostei Kozelskii #454511 April 26, 2025 1
We should bring back that particular punishment for our dusky confreres.
Tars Tarkas #454453 April 25, 2025 12
One key problem with this economic argument is that it’s only economically more efficient when you don’t count the costs because society at large pays the cost while you get all the benefits.This is absolutely the case in the modern version of slavery, these temporary workers. The farmer (employer) gets all the benefits of low wage highly compliant workers while the community gets a bunch of brown people ruing the lives of the community and clogging the schools and healthcare system entirely for free. The agribusinesses do not pay any of these costs. They don’t experience the joys of diverse people living in their community. Often, the community doesn’t even benefit from the low cost of this labor because the product is exported.The slaveholders got all the benefits of slavery while we (society generally) have gotten almost 2 centuries of BS of never ending programs, plus a war in which 600k Americans died. Lest anyone think these programs started in the 1960s, these attempts go back at least to the 1600s. The Quakers in Philadelphia, for example, were always trying to ‘help’ the blacks living in the area. They had all kinds of programs and free money and low interest loans and free training programs and free housing….. There is a book called The Philadelphia Negro (out of copyright) that goes through a lot of this.
Steve #454460 April 25, 2025 -5
Unfortunately for this interpretation, the browns clogging up the works would be the case whether or not the farmers hired them. The farmers just happen to (or arrange their lives such that they) recoup at least a part of those taxes they pay. I get the envy. Almost universal in the human condition. Doesn’t make it any less sinful.
Tars Tarkas #454473 April 25, 2025 7
Big business including big ag is in on the importation. They wouldn’t be here if they weren’t hired. They also wouldn’t be here if big business including big ag were not facilitating it.What did we do before we had this crap? Teenagers, migrants (internal) and other temporary workers. There are propaganda videos on youtube from the 50s and 60s of teenagers and college students working on farms during the harvest. What about all the automation? They should not need nearly as many people.What envy? You think I envy any of these people?We need the laws to be enforced. We probably need new laws making it a serious felony to aid or abet any alien. Jail for housing them. Jail for employing them. Jail for selling or giving food to them. Once bad behavior has consequences, people stop doing it.
Steve #454486 April 25, 2025 -2
“Big business including big ag is in on the importation. They wouldn’t be here if they weren’t hired. They also wouldn’t be here if big business including big ag were not facilitating it.” Doubtful. Are you arguing that the Dims, the party leading the charge to bring them in/back are beholden to Big Business? I guess it’s plausible now, but was it a couple decades ago when they were championing same? A decade before that when they pretended not to, but enacted legislation to make it so? ’65, with Hart-Cellar? What would be required for the narrative to break down?
Jeffrey Zoar #454369 April 25, 2025 12
The incontrovertible fact is that the transatlantic slave trade was the best thing to ever happen to the negro race. This has never been refuted. It cannot be refuted.Probably the penultimate examples of “no good deed goes unpunished” are the two entities which did the most in world history to end slavery, the British empire and its American offshoot, now bearing primary blame for its existence.Other than Robert DeNiro, I’m unaware of any white men who are willing to pay to copulate with negresses when there are alternatives, so I am skeptical of the stories of such from back in the day.
Tars Tarkas #454377 April 25, 2025 11
According to the FBI, there are years where not a single White on black SA is reported. The other years are single or low double digit reports. The other way around is never less than 10s of thousands.
Ostei Kozelskii #454399 April 25, 2025 7
I’m guessing we no longer have access to those crime stats. And eventually, just like the JFK files, they’ll be redacted, scrubbed or simply “lost.”
Compsci #454388 April 25, 2025 2
There must have been a lot of such couplings going on if the present admixture of White DNA in the American Black is estimated at 25%. We’d need to explain such before assuming your hypothesis.
Ostei Kozelskii #454401 April 25, 2025 4
I think that percentage is closer to 15%, but that still means that shenanigans took place.
Jeffrey Zoar #454413 April 25, 2025 4
The NIH says 13%.Landmark Study Looks at Genetics of Africans, African Americans | National Institutes of Health (NIH). Bearing in mind how fake and gay any stats issued from that institution are known to be, and the disparity between yours and Compsci’s numbers, I am going to wait for better data. Also, a quick Bing search did not readily present a number. Had to go to page 3 for that one.
Ostei Kozelskii #454422 April 25, 2025 5
The techies and their bots disapprove of genetics mightily.
Compsci #454429 April 25, 2025 4
Sigh…. Your data is a simple NIH “news” excerpt from 2009. It states it’s a survey of around 2500 respondents (data points).Here is perhaps your “better” data. “23 and me” says Black DNA has a White admixture of 24%. “23 and me” data was used by Bryc 2014 for a published research paper see:Bryc et al., 2014, “The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans across the United States,” published in the American Journal of Human Genetics.Bryc has the better numbers (150k) and confirmatory research. You might not have seen/heard of this study because such is often repressed. There are certain journals and authors whose research cannot be cited most in most (mainstream) academic journals (doesn’t fit the preferred narrative).However, I would admit wanting to see research where the bias of folks voluntarily submitting their DNA is eliminated. I can imagine the “talented tenth” are over sampled here, while the ghetto rats couldn’t care less. Ghetto rats would have the lowest concentration of White admixture, while voluntary DNA analysis submission Blacks would come at a cost. On the other hand, I believe “23 and me” initially salted their database with “freebies”, so who knows.
Jeffrey Zoar #454432 April 25, 2025 8
I would put even less faith in 23 and me than I would in NIH. In clown world, all official stats, especially from such pozzed institutions, are presumed BS.
Compsci #454459 April 25, 2025 0
Keep doubling down. Reread. You’re still wrong.The data was from “23 and me”. The analysis from independent researchers using/mining that data. Such is done frequently by researchers into IQ and such. Government collections are often serendipitously used for other purposes years after collection. There is no reason to suspect anything wrong with the data. Whether you believe “23 and me’s” reports to purchasers as to their racial/ethnic heritage is beside the point. The data base seems sound. The secondary analysis indicating 25% admixture is from other than “22 and me” personnel.If you’ve other information, then cite it. Here’s the explanation supplied by ChatGPT for the 15% vs 25% discrepancy:15% European Admixture (Older or Broader Estimates)Sources:Some older studies and estimates cited by government or historical sources used genealogical, medical, or survey-based models rather than direct genotyping.For example, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (through the Office of Minority Health) has historically mentioned “on average 15–20% European ancestry” in African Americans. These are often based on older medical genetics assumptions.Why the Lower Estimate?Earlier studies used blood group data, limited Y-DNA or mtDNA studies, and assumptions about admixture that missed more recent findings.Medical genetics in the 1990s or early 2000s might cite 15% based on available tech and smaller datasets.
3g4me #454437 April 25, 2025 13
23 and me has been known to lie, to claim everyone is ‘x’% African, etc. Also bear in mind that the unfortunate increase in the number of mulattoes (half and half) skews the percentages. Some blacks, like Valerie Jarrett, are heavily White (and thus then hate genuine Whites all the more). Others, like Jodie Turner-Smith, not so much. And finally, always ask yourself just how much sh*t mixed into ice cream that you will accept.
Compsci #454465 April 25, 2025 0
Again, read the comment. The data set is not proven to be incorrect. “23 and me” constructs the individual’s entire genome, then attempts to interpret it. If their interpretation is suspect, so be it. But you are implying their genome typing is incorrect.There is no evidence for this and every reason to believe otherwise. Modern sophisticated systems can put together your genomic map for a few dollars these days. The percentage of admixture is of course an average figure across 150k individuals. To read it otherwise is silly. I suspect we have Blacks with higher admixture being more civilized as we’d define the term.
Dr_Mantis_Tobbogan_MD #454471 April 25, 2025 1
I thought Valerie Jarrett was part Persian?
3g4me #454474 April 25, 2025 3
Born in Iran to mixed-race black parents.
Ostei Kozelskii #454450 April 25, 2025 6
Or, Compsci, you could just crank up your trusty BS detector and look around you. Do you really think our lovely and intelligent African-Americans are actually one-quarter white? 23andMe, my ass.
Compsci #454463 April 25, 2025 2
Pay attention, learn some genetics. Yep, they are one quarter White if you look at DNA—not behavior. That percentage is an “average”, I’m certain it varies among our native Black population. We don’t particularly know just which genes, or rather all that these genes do, that they’ve inherited, but we can estimate the number/percentage.European Whites are said to have approx 2% Neanderthal genes—but not all Whites have the same Neanderthal genes. It is estimated that perhaps 20-30% of the Neanderthal’s gene pool survives across the modern human (non-African) population around the world. Hell, we share 98% of our genome with chimpanzees, but we don’t grow tails.We do know a few observable and verified facts however, such as the average IQ of the American Black at 85 and verses his cousin in Africa at 70 or so. That’s what 25% does for you. We can also observe a distinct color difference between the American Black and his pure-bred African cousins. Another remark I’d make after looking at Black Africans is that our population of Blacks seem bigger and stronger than what I observe in Africa. However, I suspect this is due to some sort of selective breeding as a slave population or perhaps modern nutrition.
3g4me #454476 April 25, 2025 9
As Steve notes, you also must take into consideration selection bias – those blacks with the money and interest to use 23 and Me are those with greater White admixture. There are plenty of blacks with minimal White admixture. And lots of experience has taught that those with more – while just a bit more clever and capable – are also a lot more envious andresentful. We can also see what an average of 20% black admixture does to Puerto ricans.
Steve #454483 April 25, 2025 4
“As Steve notes, you also must take into consideration selection bias” To be fair, he did. Towards the end of that post. That was what I was getting at. That by the time people got to the disclaimers, they would likely have already reached a conclusion. If anything, I think we under-appreciate environment and other effects we don’t even pretend to understand, let alone describe. If there is such a thing as a spirit/soul/mind, it transcends pure materialism, and thus, genetics.
Ostei Kozelskii #454513 April 26, 2025 1
Given your professions of Christianity, you know the soul exists. There is no subjunctive.
Ostei Kozelskii #454512 April 26, 2025 2
It all depends upon the parameters of the subset. If children of a mudshark and a buck are counted as “African-American,” perhaps that 25% number is within the realm of possibility. If not, no way in hell. And, AFAIC, halfbreeds are neither fish nor foul and should not be counted as such. The typical negro one runs into whilst strolling through the hood is not one-quarter white. He does not possess the white genetic material equivalent to having one white grandparent. You can easily enough determine that just by looking at him–if you really must.
Steve #454458 April 25, 2025 -1
Pro-tip: Make sure the self-selection bias thing is the first thing you mention, or most people will gloss right over it. 😉
Compsci #454487 April 25, 2025 1
That’s their problem as much as mine. Pro tip: read and reread, then comment—especially if you disagree. Here’s another pro tip: if you dispute citations which support the premise of the argument you disagree with, then provide some of your own in rebuttal. Otherwise, we don’t engage in dispute, simply naysaying and yelling over each other.
Steve #454489 April 25, 2025 2
Oddly enough, if you had followed your own advice, you would have realized I was agreeing with you.
Steve #454490 April 25, 2025 1
Though you may or may not realize it, I usually do agree with you. Laconism is a double-edged sword…
Steve #454491 April 25, 2025 0
Oops. That was supposed to be a reply to you, @CSci.
Tars Tarkas #454442 April 25, 2025 10
One 1/2 breed can get his 1/2 white genes into a number of black women or men. These offspring also spread white genes into the black population.While miscegenation did exist, it was probably more in the lower classes and far less widespread than it is propagandized about today. Most slave owners had a lot of choices. Like today, you’re going into the bottom of the barrel.
Horace #454420 April 25, 2025 9
Evolution by natural selection works very quickly (observable phenotype change) over several generations when the fitness advantage is large. A half-African/half-European slave would be vastly more likely to have superior (1) pattern recognition capability and (2) impulse control/emotional self control/deferred gratification. Thus they were VASTLY more likely to successfully perpetuate their genes.Baseline Africans (without admixture) have a racial mean IQ of 72. That means that half are dumber. A half-white who manifested an 85 IQ (the population mean of Americanized Africans, descendants of slaves) had a huge advantage over the bulk of his competitors. Rinse and repeat over several generations and those European alleles contributing to increased fitness advantage inside European ecosystems (civilizations ARE ecosystems) will grow in their proportion (fix). European alleles are optimized for European ecosystems. If anything, the welfare state we have is what is keeping African alleles in the game.bottom-line: Whether the European portion of the Americanized-African genome is 15% or 25%, the rate of miscegenation was MUCH lower. If the rate of miscegenation had been ~20%, then we would be talking about MUCH higher admixture percentages.
Steve #454433 April 25, 2025 1
The same principle applies to animal husbandry in general. You don’t necessarily need European genes in the slave populace to selectively breed superior individuals into your herd, any more than you need European genes in your cattle herd to improve it over a mere handful of generations. That’s just what happens when you are willing to spend $1000+ (50 oz of gold, at least $150k by today’s reckoning) on a strong, young buck.
Compsci #454468 April 25, 2025 2
Hence the athleticism we see in American Blacks. Africa is a big place with a couple billion Blacks or so. Yet, with some exceptions, we don’t see them running away with sports competition medals as we do with Western Blacks.
james wilson #454444 April 25, 2025 7
There weren’t so many couplings (rapes) as guilt demands. All the photos of black Union soldiers are entirely of pure Bantu Africans. The work of a house negro was preferrabe to that of the field negro, and easily more prestigious. It was these women (Sally Hemmings) who deliberately mated with whites (Tom Jefferson’s brother) to ensure her family would remain with the house. Hemmings would pass today, and one of her sons did pass in Ohio. After the war a relatively small number of largely white former slaves, male and female, found unlimited reproductive success. It is no less true today that light beats dark among Afericans, beginning with school age kids.
Compsci #454368 April 25, 2025 12
“In fact, slaves were much more productive than the freemen.”An interesting fact—probably included in the book you referenced, but I’ve not read yet—is that slave owners learned way back before Stalin how to incentivize their slaves to maximize production.Slave owners began to assign slaves their own plot of ground which could be worked by the slave on his own time, that is to say after his assigned work duties on the master’s land. Slaves had every incentive therefore to work quickly and finish their master’s work and get back to working their own assigned plot of land. Proceeds from this “privatized” work could then be saved and slave could buy their own freedom in time.Such was for the least skilled of the slaves that could only offer their own (manual) labor. Some slaves were talented and developed into skilled artisans of the times. Slave masters then set them up in businesses and split the proceeds of their labor with them. Many also bought their and their family’s way out of slavery.Some of the more interesting readings I’ve encountered were from the Savanna Society. Old notices and regulations as to the “care and feeding” of slaves. As Z=man points out, these regulations were vital to the safety of the Whites of the times. Mistreatment started slave rebellions and Whites feared having their throats slit in the night when such happened. These regulations outlined food rations for slaves, Sunday’s off work, and punishment limitations.If one is familiar with the conditions of the White laborer of the times—especially as the Industrial Revolution took hold in the North, one sees little difference between the lower class working Whites of the times and the Black slaves of the South.
Jack Dodson #454412 April 25, 2025 2
That actually more describes Lenin’s New Economic Policy, which Stalin swiftly killed because it threatened his absolute control. Along the same lines, in the years before the Civil War, slaves sometimes entered trades such as blacksmithing and barbers and kept some of the profits with the bulk going to the owner, of course.
Compsci #454431 April 25, 2025 3
I don’t know the time, I assumed Stalin got rid of it—not started absolute collectivism—but my dates still say he did in 1928 with forced collectivism. Lenin might have first preached the idea, but he was a wax figure in the basement of the Kremlin by then.The fact relevant here was that when surfs were allocated a “private” parcel of land, the resulting productivity went through the roof.Here is the ChatGPT summary of what ai was getting at:By the 1940s and 1950s, private plots made up only about 3–5% of the agricultural land, but:Produced 25–30% of all vegetables.Produced 50% of the country’s potatoes.Produced nearly 40% of eggs.Produced more than 50% of meat (especially pork and poultry).
Jack Dodson #454439 April 25, 2025 2
That actually refreshed my memory, and, yes, Lenin proposed it and then died, and Stalin implemented it. I’m not wed to capitalism as a moral thing or ideology or whatever but it is undeniable that its incentives spurs more production.
Ostei Kozelskii #454451 April 25, 2025 1
Capitalism is productive and destructive in equal measure.
Compsci #454472 April 25, 2025 0
Yep, when 90% of the population lives hand to mouth it does seem like socialism or capitalism is a better bet. Then you get it and everyone lives the “Life of Riley” and the society degenerates to where we now are. Oh the irony…
Ostei Kozelskii #454514 April 26, 2025 2
As with any economic or political system, there is a vast panoply of second-order consequences. They are largely unforeseen, and many of them are pernicious. It’s only ex post facto that we see what we wrought.
Filthie #454397 April 25, 2025 11
Hmpfffff. I think I want to call BS on one – possibly two of the ten facts.black slaves were treated wellthey reciprocated by being productiveMaybe some were… but hell’s bells – most blacks – at least half – are too dumb to hold down a job at McDonald’s. They are literally borderline retards. There’s only two things that make blacks behave: fear and common sense. If they’re too dumb to have common sense, the only way to keep them in line would be a whip on their ass, or the very real threat of it.Looking at how we coddle blacks today with utterly disastrous results…one of those facts must be in error, possibly both.
Horace #454426 April 25, 2025 13
Also keep in mind that most of our American experiences with Africans are with those with European admixture who are the descendants of slaves. Baseline Africans are in aggregate WAY WAY more violent and stupid and dyscivilizational. Stupidly nice white people get a skewed appreciation of reality because when they meet baseline Africans inside American universities and corporations, they are the crème of the crop, drawn from the upper tenth of the top percent: extreme outliers.My second job was working in warehouse where I was the only non-black. They were nice guys as I recollect (this was before the complete collapse of their traditional American culture), but their limited cognitive capability was impossible not to notice. I guess it was my first ‘red pill’ experience. No one is building an industrial civilization with these people.Oh, and btw, the Central Americans we are getting are even dumber (not by much, but measurable) than Americanized-Africans. It highlights the monstrous evil insanity of leftists like James Carville screaming that we are deporting the next generation of leading scientists. Baseline Amerindians have NEVER produced a significant cognitive. When one examines significant cognitives from their societies, one invariably finds European genomic inheritance. I wish it weren’t so, but it is what it is, and we didn’t make it so, so it shouldn’t be our problem.
Dr_Mantis_Tobbogan_MD #454470 April 25, 2025 5
In college, the black athletes had “tutors” that did their work for them. It was one of those commonly known secrets that was exposed when one of the “tutors” at University of North Carolina blew the whistle. Funny how the NCAA didn’t even give the Heels so much as a slap on the wrist.
Severian #454346 April 25, 2025 11
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, so apologies if you brought this up, but for those interested: Eric Foner’s first book,Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Menis great on the economic ideology propping up abolitionism. Free labor simply couldn’t compete with slave labor in e.g. the Midwest, they thought at the time, so that’s why the Republican Party got such a huge following there so fast. (Foner is also a great example of a truly repellent person nonetheless doing excellent scholarship — he’s a Commie, literally, but he could keep it in his pants back then).
Ostei Kozelskii #454379 April 25, 2025 8
When Eric began work on an historical project, he never foned it in…
Hemid #454390 April 25, 2025 3
Until pretty recently, most communists who weren’t true insiders thought of themselves as opposition to the order we have now: unity of finance and state, intelligence and academia, technology and policing, etc. So they did a bunch of interesting work, especially in history, not anticipating that what they made was for us.Now communists are just Democrats—or local-equivalent regime partisans. Last time a Brit student schizo sold me aSocialist Worker, it was an emotionally wracked guide to ethical shopping “under Trump,” likeTeen Voguefor ugly nerds.At the “library” of the future—a chatbot whose job is to hide everything from us like the curator of a police archive—what books about slavery will be admitted to exist? Will there have been any slavery other than that of blacks in the southern US? Already, in the minds of young Americans, there was no other enslavement—not even of the biblical Jews. (You’d think they’d keep that one, but instead it’s the mainstream model forslavery denial. Funny guys.)Right now, ask the most based “AI” if there was ever an American leftist academic book titled after the new intellectual movement it extolled:Cultural Marxism. I mean, I own it. But the present doesn’t. It’s not even on the author’s CV.The future will have so much less, almost nothing. Get your old commie books while you can.
fakeemail #454424 April 25, 2025 10
the african slaves in America were slaves in Africa first and sold off by their African brothers. That’s who they should be mad at, if anyone.
tashtego #454398 April 25, 2025 9
Starting to arrest some of the kritarchs. To borrow a phrase from a POS many will remember “Faster Please.” There’s no avoiding the use of force to settle who is going to be in charge. The enemy has made it clear they do not and will not accept any alternative governance to their own. They openly justify using any manner of sedition, treason and violence as means to re-establishing themselves as dictators of our lives right down to asserting authority to mutilate our children’s genitals or subject us to medical experiments. The admin would be perfectly justified in declaring the baby killing communist pedophile party an existential threat to the nation and begin rounding them up and giving them the J6 treatment. When they respond with violence reply with more.
Mow Noname #454452 April 25, 2025 2
“The admin would be perfectly justified in declaring the baby killing communist pedophile party an existential threat to the nation and begin rounding them up and giving them the J6 treatment.” Hey, hey: that is not who we are. If America did that, we would be no better than Europe.
Dutchboy #454464 April 25, 2025 8
The chattel slavery system is the beau ideal of capitalism, with a class of workers supported at a minimum level of food, clothing, and shelter and the police authorities preventing any escape from their servitude. No pesky wage demands, strikes or labor unions to deal with. It was the 19th century version of “you will own nothing and you will be happy.”
Shotgun Messenger #454501 April 25, 2025 3
And yet the capitalists of the day moved heaven and earth to end it, on three continents.
Hemid #454517 April 26, 2025 2
Financeended it, because slaves don’t have debts (let’s say). As property, they were effectively outside the system. Their minds could be free, possibly, to imagine a free world. Now all their songs are about money, and they name their kids after purse brands. It can be thought of that way. The people are screwed from many angles.I don’t think “banking” is primary, but its interests are almost always served. They wantdeindustrializationnow. What gave them the taste for it? Seems like a bad idea. Was there a test case? Maybe.
Whiskey #454423 April 25, 2025 7
Chris Z Man — Thanks so much for reaching out. I really appreciate it. I would ask the group for advice, my brother passed away on Jan 25th, it was very hard on me because we were very close, he was my roomate for the last 25 years and best friend. How do you deal with the loss and depression? This is the first time I’ve had the energy to post. Hmm … my old mail dot com email address is invalid. Weird. Thanks.
Jeffrey Zoar #454434 April 25, 2025 4
Good to see you back
Compsci #454475 April 25, 2025 2
“How do you deal with the loss and depression?”One way—and this may not work for all—is to give sorrow and loss in life *purpose*!To this effect, I ask you, “How would your brother have felt if *you* had died first—leaving him all alone and in grief as you are now? If you believe he would have felt as you now do, or even worse, then your suffering and sorrow has meaning and purpose in that you are now suffering in his place.As you would have gladly done if possible in life, you now do in death. Sorrow and grieving and sacrifice are part of our Devine nature. We must embrace it as much as possible for all things shall pass.
Steve #454492 April 25, 2025 0
Probably not much help, butThe Stone Boy,a short story from the early 60s, IIRC, is my go-to. Even if one was the proximate cause, it does not follow that one must feel remorse. Accidents happen. I get the whole “Psychotic Steve” thing that is likely to ensue, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
terranigma #454530 April 26, 2025 1
Mourn. I wish it could be as trite as looking up the stages of grief, and while that could be useful, the actual mourning is a lost art you will have to work out for yourself. The only way out is through.
usNthem #454350 April 25, 2025 7
Kind of interesting that a good revisionist history on the actual reality of slavery would written by two guys named fogel and engerman. Who’d a thunk…
Bloated Boomer #454445 April 25, 2025 -1
Neocon apologetics.
pyrrhus #454373 April 25, 2025 6
Indeed, the slaves in Africa died rapidly and horribly of starvation and maltreatment, while the slaves who reached America (sold by kings and tribal leaders who had excess numbers of them) got good food and decent working conditions…Some were given firearms to supplement their food by hunting small game…As Ali said when he was in Zaire for the rumble in the jungle…”I’m sure glad my great great granddaddy caught that boat..” But slavery was dying by the 1860s because of the flood of Irish immigrants, who were cheaper than slaves, and didn’t have to be purchased….
thezman #454387 April 25, 2025 3
This is one of the myths they address. Contrary to this assertion, slavery was booming prior to the war.
ray #454366 April 25, 2025 6
As a member of the Ebil Ebil White Mens, I tend to rise early so as to get in a full day of Raping, Murdering, Pillaging and Oppressing of the Minorities. Buff them stereotypes! Guess I’m a little miffed that Enslaving is off the board. But, not a perfect world sigh. I transferred my Enslaving energy over to Pillaging, as that was my second favorite activity. I mean pillage pillage pillage, right?
My Comment #454353 April 25, 2025 6
Both sides of my family are from the South. I had only one wing who were former slave owners. My mom’s grandmother still had the plantation complete with sharecroppers working it.My mother could play with the black kids but the white kids were off limits. One time her grandma caught her playing with a white boy and she was spanked so hard she had to ride the school bus for a week sitting on a pillow.When her granddaddy was away, the grandma would have black workers come in the house for my grandma’s safety.The grandma viewed whites as superior and felt that any white who had the same lifestyle as a black was deficient morally.So to Z’s point, the standard narrative yet again is pure bunk.Interesting side note. My relatives, all sides, viewed union organizers as Northern Jews who were the working class’ enemy because they wanted to give the White jobs to blacks
Tom K #454389 April 25, 2025 9
Some people might not understand what you’re saying about not allowing their children to play with other white children. But being from the South myself, I get it. Like you, one side of my family were slave owners and the other side was not.The reason you wouldn’t let your child play with another white child if you ran a plantation way out in the country is what you said in your third to last paragraph. The only other white children close by out in the country were likely “morally deficient” as you put it. You might have to travel miles way out there to find a suitable playmate. It wasn’t like they could get in a car and drive their children for playdates with other children over good roads.My g-g-grandfather owned slaves. But he was a town dweller. His slaves worked in his factory in the town. As far as I know he treated them well. If he didn’t it was easy for them to run away. All they had to do was jump on a river boat and head North. I know from written accounts that the river traffic wasn’t that heavily patrolled and blacks and whites freely rubbed shoulders on the boats so it was always a possibility. There were some abuses of the system but even though we can’t have direct experience of what it was like, it should be obvious that there were trade-offs as with any economic arrangement.The real problem is that blacks and whites are incompatible as people and Jefferson mentioned that in his Notes on Virginia. Slavery under one lens was just an attempt to assert control over the Dark continent intrusion into America. Now we try to assert control by appeasement with gibs such as free sailfoams, make-work jobs, etc, etc.
miforest #454457 April 25, 2025 5
our betters consistently are silent on the continuation of slavery in the modern world in a form that is much worse than anything in the south.https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/global-silence-amid-hts-allies-take-alawite-women-sex-slaves-syria
Dutchboy #454419 April 25, 2025 5
From the Catholic Encyclopedia: “in 1462,Pius IIdeclared slavery to be “a great crime” (magnum scelus); that, in 1537,Paul IIIforbade the enslavement of the Indians; thatUrban VIIIforbade it in 1639, andBenedict XIVin 1741; thatPius VIIdemanded of the Congress ofVienna, in 1815, the suppression of the slave trade andGregory XVIcondemned it in 1839; that, in theBullof Canonization of theJesuitPeter Claver, one of the most illustrious adversaries of slavery,Pius IXbranded the “supreme villainy” (summum nefas) of the slave traders. Everyone knows of the beautiful letter whichLeo XIII, in 1888, addressed to theBrazilianbishops, exhorting them to banish from their country the remnants of slavery — a letter to which thebishopsresponded with their most energetic efforts, and some generous slave-owners by freeing their slaves in a body, as in the first ages of theChurch.”The Church has never liked slavery, has discouraged it when it could not ban it and called for its abolition when it could be done. It is intrinsically abusive.
Templar #454461 April 25, 2025 4
Contrary to the nonsense version of history taught in schools and popularized through movies and television, the African slaves in North America were treated well. It’s horribly ironic that the extremely brutal Arab and Brazilian slave-trades go almost completely unmentioned these days while the comparatively humane American slave trade is held up as an object of the utmost barbarism.
Ostei Kozelskii #454462 April 25, 2025 3
Gee, for the life of me I just cannot imagine why this is the case. Oy! Such a perplexity!
Whiskey #454428 April 25, 2025 4
I would argue that industrialization spells the end of slavery as a system that works, and Trump is the greatest anti-slaver ever to have lived.The current GLOBAL system relies on slavery, with the usual low quality control and lack of real scale. The Germans tried industrial slavery with predictable results, as did the Soviets post-War. The Iphone? Made with cobalt and nickel mined by child slave labor in the Congo, imprisoned by child slave labor soldiers, and assembled in China with slave labor that is so bad that FoxConn had to install anti-suicide nets on their buildings. So many slave workers were jumping off the buildings to end it all.For industrial scale War in particular to win in long attrition struggles, quality and quantity must be assured, on a proper scale. This means highly motivated workers with high IQ creating and assembling complex machines that function properly in extreme conditions. One of the biggest issues with Chrysler, for example, is that the engineering is quite good on some of the vehicles but the Q/A and Q/C and assembly is quite poor. And that is from just poorly paid and motivated line workers. See: British Leyland. [Famous Grand Tour episode where the workers were literally sledgehammering doors into cars for assembly in the 1970s.]Thus Trump using Tariffs to move production to the US under free labor and well compensated workers is morally correct. He is morally greater than Ghandi, Martin Luther King, or Cesar Chavez combined.Slavery when complex assembly under high production loads is required to win wars, does not scale.
Person in Pictland #454383 April 25, 2025 4
“European Protestants decided …” Specifically Englishmen and, more specifically, Quakers and Evangelical Anglicans.
Thomas Mcleod #454352 April 25, 2025 4
One of the things about slavery that I discovered years after skrool was that the banks owned more slaves than anyone else. Need money to money to put your crops in this year? Take a loan out with the bank and use your slaves as collateral. Jefferson, for example, was leveraged right up to the hilt, including his slaves.
TomA #454363 April 25, 2025 3
Black slaves in the old South actually assimilated quite well to American culture versus their ancestral tribal culture in Africa. They became devoutly religious, were diligent workers, developed strong family values, and most strove to improve themselves both physically and via education when provided. This occurred in large part because of artificial selections forces that rewarded these behaviors. As a cohort of America, blacks improved significantly over time and were on a track to earn their freedom naturally within a few generations. Even after the Civil War, this trend continued until President Johnson killed it with the Great Society civil rights program that introduced a welfare driver that destroyed all of this by replacing biological fathers with government gibs.
3g4me #454400 April 25, 2025 12
Every assertion you make here about the black family can be decisively proven wrong by statistics still available online to those who are willing to dig for them. Your claims are essentially those of Saint Thomas Sowell, who proclaimed any negative distinctly black behavioral proclivities as aping the Scotts-Irish, and laid all blame for the lack of modern black family structure on Johnson. Absolute hogwash.
Jack Dodson #454415 April 25, 2025 7
Sowell is an absolute joke and the worship of him even is worse. The aping of the Scots-Irish excuse fails spectacularly even as a lie in that the ethnicity of the whites in the immediate vicinity of slaves tended to be English or to a lesser extent Jewish. The Scots-Irish Southern majority was most prominent in the areas of Appalachia or immediately adjacent to it where few slaves were found. What Tom gets right, perhaps inadvertently, is that it requires strict supervision for blacks even to maintain a modicum of decorum and proper behavior.
Bloated Boomer #454449 April 25, 2025 4
“Theapingof the Scots-Oirish” I see what you did there.
Compsci #454477 April 25, 2025 3
The exact statistics on the Black family cohesion may or may not be correct, but the parallel statistics on Whites mirrors the same proposed progression and those are solid. As the laws against divorce weakened, as welfare became the ex-wife’s new husband, as Feminism took hold, complete family units lessened. There is no reason to assume the phenomenon was not felt in Black family units as well. Sowell never argued other.
Ostei Kozelskii #454405 April 25, 2025 13
Southern slavery was an ideographic situation. Slaveowners had complete control over their slaves and could thus impose their morality and expectations upon them absolutely. That is why slaves behaved reasonably well. As white power over negroes diminished–and was much later forfeited entirely–the true nature of the African reemerged and here we are living in a gilded Gambia.
Compsci #454488 April 25, 2025 6
Yep. Look at old pictures of pre civil rights Blacks in cities or even in civil rights protests. They were dressed in the manner of middle class whites. When the civil rights era was over, Blacks took off their skin suits of civilized, Western society and reverted to their underlying nature. Less so for the “talented tenth”, but not entirely different. Every other race or ethnicity that immigrated here over a few generations adopted the prevailing White culture—but not Blacks. They couldn’t reject the trappings of the civilization they grew up in fast enough, and we—disingenuous Whites—encouraged it!
Ostei Kozelskii #454516 April 26, 2025 2
Quite. And we must give the negroes a certain amount of credit for the low cunning that makes them such effective con men. Ergo, one reason they comported with white aesthetic, cultural and behavioral norms–at least to a certain degree–was that they realized they could fool whites into believing they were just like us. That bit of legerdemain accomplished, they could then gain key political concessions, obtain power, and be off to the races. In this respect, they were absolutely right.
Bitter reactionary #454361 April 25, 2025 3
Given how crappy things were in the early colonies it doesn’t surprise me that many men went to try their luck in the western wilderness. On the topic of slavery in North America, I found James LaFond’s book Cracker Boy to be fascinating. Black slavery was only part of the overall story. The subject matter is fairly grim but I think a dissident reader would find it worthwhile. One amusing aside – based on reading diary accounts cited in the book, it seems that the problem of poorly disciplined anglo women goes back a long way…
Shotgun Messenger #454502 April 25, 2025 2
George Fitzhugh left us two comprehensive volumes on the institution of slavery in America within the context of both then-emergent capitalist practice and communist theory. Modern attempts to reframe it, even when not disingenuous, are largely superfluous. Lately, those by mostly very young people calling themselves national socialists to pitch it as a capitalist plot to drive down white wages and take white jobs parallel to today’s demographic engineering project might be the most laughable.
Chmi #454381 April 25, 2025 2
And, well, the top slave traders in the Mediterranean, well into the 2nd millennium after Christ, were the “Venetians” (yes, it’s yourusual suspects), with Christians also doing their share of purchases, and the Vatican “tolerating it” (not that their not tolerating it would have stopped the trade to any meaningful extent, understandably).
Shotgun Messenger #454500 April 25, 2025 2
By the middle of that millennium most Christian purchases in the region were ransoms sponsored by Catholic clergy. Meanwhile English and Dutch mariners were offering their services to the Barbary pirates, with the legendary raids on Iceland and Ireland being captained by one Jan Janszoon van Haarlem.
Ostei Kozelskii #454378 April 25, 2025 2
Revision this–the transatlantic slave trade was the best thing ever to happen to the sub-Saharans.
Jeffrey Zoar #454456 April 25, 2025 2
One could take the absolute worst possible view of slavery, of white people, and of western civilization in general, yet still be unable to refute this truth
Lakelander #454359 April 25, 2025 2
“A happy slave was a productive and profitable slave.” The ruling class really put this idea to good use on AINO, didn’t they?
JDaveF #454537 April 28, 2025 1
Read “American Slavery As It Is”, which is not a history book, but a contemporary account written in 1835. It presents a different view.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VK6LH43?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_a_conn_dt_b_pd_1
One_After_909 #454536 April 27, 2025 1
Excellent summary. Last summer or fall you mentioned this book and The Revolution of 1861 as two books to read in order to get a better understanding of the conditions prevalent prior to the Civil War.Time on The Cross creates cognitive dissonance because of the cultural bombardment with the prevailing narrative in education, the Media and cinema. I often found myself wondering “they actually let them publish this?”The observation that the Civil Rights Movement was nothing but revenge is something I’ve understood since it started. The difference no is they aren’t even bothering to hide that fact.Darryl Cooper has an excellent history of worldwide Slavery on his substack too.
Paintersforms #454534 April 27, 2025 1
After listening, I think PERPETUAL slavery is an abomination, especially if one can be born into it. Don’t think I’ll ever change my mind about that. Children belonging to their parents, imprisoning criminals and making them work, even indenture— no problems with any of that. As long as the debt can be paid off.As for the treatment of slaves, the victor often demonizes the vanquished. Nothing new there, anybody with half a brain will take that stuff with a healthy grain of salt.As for the economics of it, sure, I could see it being more efficient for an agrarian economy. Thing was, the Western world was leaving the Middle Ages and industrializing. Industrialization came with a new way of life and new economic relations, for better or worse. The lost cause narrative was more than cope. Won’t say it was the tide of History! or God’s will, but still.I mean, the North had a larger population and greater industrial capacity for a reason (and lots of newly-arrived Irish who were willing to take their chances in America, some even to fight someone else’s war, rather than starve in Ireland).I think the whole debate is really about the white/black thing, which wouldn’t be a thing in America if not for African slavery, but we’re not allowed to talk about that. Not allowed to talk about why the South was backwards, or why Northern cities and society went to hell, so let’s pick scabs and talk about economics or morality. LOL.
T. Morris #454440 April 25, 2025 1
I call it “Revisionist Revisionist History,” but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose.
Templar #454480 April 25, 2025 1
History, like science, must always be open to revision in light of new research.
Paintersforms #454425 April 25, 2025 1
Scanning the comments, I get the thought an examination of the IQ (Irish Question), or maybe a broader Celtic Question, might be useful. Sounds like Northern life was especially hard on them.Honestly, it’s a topic that fascinates me, not just in terms of America, not just because I’m part Celtic. My impression is that Irish generally have affection for America, in spite of hardship, because so many came here and established themselves.Then there’s the whole ancient thing, caught between the Latin and the Germanic, the Catholic and Protestant, etc.Unrelated, I also suspect the decline of Protestantism, and the WASP, is tied to the decline in literacy. There’s, perhaps, the seed of self-reliance in reading the Bible for yourself— or at least thats how the Anglo seemed to have taken it.
Redpill Boomer #454403 April 25, 2025 1
Thanks! I will definitely read this book. Have you read “The Peculiar Institution” by Kenneth Stampp? I first read it in the 1970s, reread it this year. Published in 1956, the author seems to pursue a middle ground between the “slavery was pure crueltyl” and “slaves were happy as slaves” camps, the second of which may have been a straw man even at that time. He agreed on most of the 10 points, except for disputing that slaves were better off than poor white workers.What’s humorous was the prologue in which he asserts that blacks are exactly like whites except for skin color. The first time I read it, I didn’t take issue with that. The second time, I did.
Redpill Boomer #454404 April 25, 2025 1
He also stressed the hostility of poor southern whites to slaves due to the economic competition. The South had few factories, most of which were staffed by slaves. He mentions one in particular that made it a point to only hire free labor. The moment the white workers went on strike, they fired them all and replaced them with slaves.
Midlander #454360 April 25, 2025 1
I read Frederick Douglass’s autobiography. Was he lying?
Hi-ya #454414 April 25, 2025 -1
Time for these people to finally go back home to where they belong. When our people, I think specifically the Portuguese, found these people living in the bush, they were not only so primitive in technology, with no written language no art no philosophy, but they were so morally degraded, engaging in cannibalism of the dead, there was a serious debate among the best minds about whether they were even human.the thinkinghousewife did a lot of research on this and she found that without the profits from the use of slaves Europe would have fallen to the Saracens.the Catholic Church never condemned slavery or owning slaves I think it gave some guardrails on a sort of crass slave trade: harvesting people from Africa was unsavory.
Daniel Bernard Respecter #454410 April 25, 2025 -1
Here’s a bold personal request. My copy of the book is long gone but I remember reading and discussing it the year it came out in my small, elite major/class within a very elite university. We reflected the national debate pretty well. My copy is long gone but I recall one of the authors dedicated the book to his wife, who “always knew that black was beautiful.” Correct? And which one? Thanks in advance.
Bloated Boomer #454441 April 25, 2025 -5
What exactly is supposed to be the point of slavery apologia?What are people here trying to achieve?
Gespenst #454454 April 25, 2025 4
It’s not an apologia. It’s a book report on a cold-eyed analysis of the economics of slavery in the ante-bellum South.
Steve #454496 April 25, 2025 1
The trick is to sort through the macro, which is mostly bullshit, and the micro, which is true.
Pam Hyde #454337 April 25, 2025 -9
The worst thing about being a slave is the long hours. And you don’t get paid!
The Right Doctor #454339 April 25, 2025 8
You get lifetime room and board, which many people were not able to provide for themselves in a completely laissez-faire economy with zero public assistance.
Marko #454351 April 25, 2025 -1
You sound like a Communist, sorry
Ride-By Shooter #454367 April 25, 2025 2
What “completely laissez-faire economy“? When? Where? As soon as any government decrees land parcels; regulates land usage; inserts itself into commercial disputes; imposes a money system; regulates banking; builds or controls ports or roads; declares existence of limited liability entities (which are only imaginary); monopolizes defense; or collects tariffs and taxes there can be no laissez-faire. It’s ok to reject libertarianism and communism. Those creeds are stories about fairies and unicorns. They have some truth only on their margins.
thezman #454340 April 25, 2025 12
If you listen to the show, slaves kept about 90% of their labor. This was much higher than the freemen. That does not mean slavery was puppies and rainbows. it just means the condition of slaves was better than the comparable hired man. Life was tough back then for most everyone.
Pam Hyde #454342 April 25, 2025 1
Great show today! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcgAdlKeQHs
NoName #454347 April 25, 2025 3
Mildly Off-Topic, but the /pol/ server is now showing some tantalizing indications of possibly coming back from the grave: CROSS. YOUR. FINGERS.
james wilson #454447 April 25, 2025 1
Cold hard fact according to A J Froude: the need to continually import slaves in the Carib was because slaves would not reproduce, and in Brazil because they couldn’t keep them corralled. In America they reproduced aplenty. Virginia made a business out of it, surpassing Tobacco.On a different note, both Tocqueville and Charles Mackay wrote identical discriptions of their trip down the Ohio river. One side was noisy with construction and the other was silent, with the occasional group of slaves milling about a field doing nothing. Large scale slavery may give labor, and industriousness, a bad name to freemen.
Robbo #454341 April 25, 2025 9
Sounds like working for Amazon
Carl B. #454343 April 25, 2025 5
Taxes and “fees”, house payments, car payments, credit card payments, medical payments, insurance payments – yeah, slaves.
Compsci #454393 April 25, 2025 4
That’s why the phrase, “wage slave”, resonates so much to those working stiffs.
Steve #454436 April 25, 2025 1
The curious feature of man is that, even if he believes to his very core he is a slave, and there’s no whip to keep him under control, he still chooses wage slavery over hanging out a shingle.
Compsci #454478 April 25, 2025 2
Absolutely true, hence the concept of “slave mentality”. Yep, people would rather be kept and told what to do than risk independence and the accompanying responsibility for self. Ask my dog about that. She runs off leash and could take off anytime, but never ventures farther than she can see me. She’s free to be a predator, but that’s been bred out of her. Now she only wishes to sit around by me and get fed twice a day. I’m certain if she was separated, she’d take sick soon and die.
NoName #454344 April 25, 2025 1
Do we have any legit photos of “Pam Hyde”? Thanks in advance.
Ostei Kozelskii #454406 April 25, 2025 1
No, no, no. You don’t get to play Hyde the Salami.
Barney Rubble #454345 April 25, 2025 21
The worst thing about slavery is that it brought “them” here.
Marko #454348 April 25, 2025 11
We got the Pilgrims and then the Africans. A recipe for disaster.
Ostei Kozelskii #454407 April 25, 2025 3
The dreaded Afro-Puritan combination.
Thomas Mcleod #454354 April 25, 2025 4
The deep American South was a HOT disease-ridden wilderness. African slaves were about the only way you could get labor in the deep South. I believe it was Memphis that the whole damn town died of yellow fever in the late 1800’s.
Tom K #454396 April 25, 2025 2
“African slaves were about the only way you could get labor in the deep South.” Not exactly true but close enough. After the war they created the sharecropper system and desperate whites worked the fields just like the blacks. But it must have been pure hell. Anybody who could tried to escape that situation.
Ostei Kozelskii #454408 April 25, 2025 2
“The deep American South was a HOT disease-ridden wilderness.” Sounds rather like sub-Saharan Africa, but without the lions, tigers and mambas.
Bitter reactionary #454417 April 25, 2025 2
If so, the place never should have been colonized. Unfit for habitation.
NoName #454356 April 25, 2025 1
Barney Rubble: ‘The worst thing about slavery is that it brought “them” here.’ Courtesy of (((them))). The great unsolved question is why did (((they))) decide to assassinate Lincoln?
Ride-By Shooter #454362 April 25, 2025 -2
Capitalismbrought them here. It was capitalism. Prejudice against this truth has contributed to the fecklessness of cripples who call theirselves conservatives or libertarians.
Marko #454349 April 25, 2025 4
Per the current meaning and current context of “slave”, nobody wants to be a slave. I don’t care how well they were apparently treated. The very nature of slave means you have no rights, or at the very least, you have no say in what those rights are…you are beholden to whoever makes the regulations. I’d rather live as a poor farmer than a slave who lives in a mansion. I think we all would. But maybe the problem is in semantics. Rather than “slave” or “slavery”, maybe we should say “permanent servant” or “permanent servitude”.
Bitter reactionary #454358 April 25, 2025 4
Prisoners With Jobs?
Chris in Ontario #454372 April 25, 2025 1
Tax Serf
NoName #454527 April 26, 2025 2
Marko, you’re delving into a viciously brutally existentially dangerous psycho-sociological trap, which the j00, sigmund freud, called, “Projection”. Just because you approach life in one particular fashion does not necessarily mean that the otherEIGHT BILLIONhominids on the face of this Earth will necessarily approach life in the same fashion as do you. “Projection”, or its close sibling, “Making Assumptions which you do not Realize you have Assumed”, arepsycho-sociologicaltraps which will ruin you. tl;dr == Step back justafew short feet, andSEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES.
Compsci #454392 April 25, 2025 2
“The worst thing about being a slave is the long hours. And you don’t get paid!” Tell that to any corporate flunky on salary. He’ll laugh in your face.
bunions #454427 April 25, 2025 3
The worst thing about being unemployed is that you never get a vacation.
Compsci #454479 April 25, 2025 1
Had to think about that one…. 😉


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