Simplify the world, live better lives. Regression to the means may be part of this, a correction if you will.I do want replacement level populations but only for certain races and countries. If India, China and the large ethnic urban areas dried up, it would be great planetary improvement.

Have a son in his 20s – two things on a personal level.

There is a concerted effort by our rulers to limit all economic activity to cities. They want no rural population. Travel through the Midwest, mlssouri,Kansas, Kentucky , and WVa. They are STUNNINGLY empty. At least away from the cities . In the cities they build enormous apartment complexes but no houses. The rural land is being bought up by ngo groups and made into “preserves” like black mountain Kentucky. Those preserves allow almost no public access. Not even camping or hiking. There is clearly large forces at work worldwide. The same thing is going on ic Canada, Brazil, Australia,and lots of other countries. It’s almost like they want us to own nothing Ang eat bugs.

Read a study couple days back that reported that 98% of the parents of U.S. daughters want their girls to ‘have careers’ and to ‘live independent financially’. That’s the plan in life: Don’t need no man.When I was a kid 70 years ago, most parents raised daughters to marry, to marry young, and to produce many wonderful grandchildren. That’s back when the nation actually worked.DIEversity hires, all, just like the Mayoress | PatriactionaryModern parents of the past half-century don’t raise daughters for marriage, but to have hard-charging careers while the government mandates the mass hiring and promotion of their daughters over males.‘That means the population collapse is most certainly do to a combination of things working in concert.’Uh huh. I’m sure there are a zillion reasons that occlude the main one stated above.Ιt аlԝаyѕ ԝаѕ juѕt реnіѕ еnνу | Patriactionary

We would be wise to not make the same mistake we make in all matters that led us to this precipice. That is to Universalize a problem. Below replacement fertility on its own may actually be healthy, though not without serious issues to address as we go through it. Our biggest problem is the invasion of our homelands and the ongoing cultural genocide against our people. Period. Full stop.Even saying that the Occident’s problem isn’t as bad as Asia’s is a big mistake. This is due to several factors, one of which is importing high fertility people. That is the problem not the solution. However, saying this supports the argument of the people who have committed this crime against us and want to increase its magnitude. Other factors are that some segments of European/Euro-Diaspora people are spiritually healthy and they are making the numbers look better in aggregate. Their numbers look fantastic and taking them away make the Occident’s look more like South Korea.Our prime objective is to preserve, reclaim, and/or carve out a homeland for our people. We are already a stateless people, and stateless people are ripe for abuse. The fertility crisis is a major problem and its biggest problem is a consumer business model and a political patronage system disguised as a public welfare program. Both are ponzi schemes and both have incentive structures that mean the powers that be will just be incentivized to import more human bodies to paper over the decline.Without a homeland, a job is slavery within a worker’s colony. Effectively that is what globalism has reduced us to. America is a set of colonies with various alien/external groups and countries extracting money and bringing it back to their vaults and extracting power and using it to extract more money from other remote colonies.Our biggest problem is getting to a state where we are no longer colonized. Be very careful not to use the fertility crisis as supporting argument for strengthening the hand of our colonizers.

My mom and her 4 siblings (boomers) had 11 children total. Those 11 children (older millennial) only have 3 children among them with most having exited fertility age now. This is how fast it happens.

I haven’t had time yet to listen to the podcast, but the topic immediatly called to my mind the “Six Sirens of the Sexual Apocalypse,” identified by the blogger Chateau Heartiste years ago. Here’s a list:“Again, Le Chateau was on top of all this years ago, when we proposed a sea change in the American cultural landscape heralded by the coming of the Four FiveSix Sirens of the Sexual Apocalypse:Effective and widely available contraceptives (the Pill, condom, and thede factocontraceptive abortion).Easy peasy no-fault divorce.Women’s economic independence (hurtling towards women’s economic advantage if the college enrollment ratio is any indication).Rigged feminist-inspired laws that have caused a disincentivizing of marriage for men and an incentivizing of divorce for women.Penicillin (reduced the cost of contracting STDs)Widely available hardcore porn.I added numbers five and six to the list of Sexual Apocalypse Sirens, because they seem to me just as important to understanding how the sexual market changed in the last fifty or so years.So, a crib sheet of quippy replies if you ever need it to send a feminist or manboob howling with indignation:1. The Pill2. No-fault divorce3. Working women4. Man-hating feminism5. Penicillin6. Porn”I may comment later after I have a chance to listen to the podcast, but I’ll bet Z-man touches on some of these factors.

“One of the many strange things about this age is that the most urgent issue facing the developed world gets the least amount of attention. That urgent thing is the collapse of fertility in every country with indoor toilets. “Excellent to see this highlighted. And, yes, of course!Biologically, what would we think of a group of creatures who were given shelter, food, and even peace and prosperity – yet, given the choice – refuse to reproduce themselves? I think the biologists would assume that, despite appearances, there was something Very Wrong Indeed.I got interested in this stuff about 15 years ago, with an evolutionary psychology perspective. At the time, I was trying to understand why and how prosperous US Mormons *had been* able to buck the trend, and reproduce above replacement mormonfertility.blogspot.com. But in the years since it is evident that Mormon fertility has *also* collapsed to well below minimum-replacement level, despite *massive* LDS church propaganda to try and maintain large families.My current tentative view to explain population collapse, is that it is biological (at root): i.e. that we are dealing with biological damage to the basis of reproduction which has a genetic basis in mutation accumulation.Accumulation of deleterious mutations is mostly due to the colossal reduction in human child mortality rates from about 60% to about 1%, operating over several generations – high child mortality having previously served as a selective sieve that filtered-out harmful mutations which spontaneously occurred each generation.Now these deleterious mutations mostly accumulate, generation upon generation.I think ZMan is already aware of this genetic interpretation of the Mouse Utopia idea, which was first suggested by Michael A Woodley of Menie; also picked up and extended by some of Michaels colleague’s such as Edward Dutton and me.I personally regard mutation accumulation as a major cause of the significant decline in intelligence over the past 150-200 years following the industrial revolution But I describe some other possible implications in this extended essay: mouseutopia.blogspot.com.One conclusion was that the first and most obvious effect of mutation accumulation would be damage to “social adaptations” especially reproductive instincts and sexual development.In a nutshell; mankind is stopping reproducing mainly because our sexual development, and instincts leading to reproduction, are being genetically disrupted, in a cumulative (generation by generation) way. This potentially explains the trend for ever-worsening subfertility across all cultures, societies, races, religions etc.This also explains the increasing rates of non-reproductive sexual preferences, identities, and practices. This is not just the high rate of “non-heterosexuality” – but also the focus on maximizing sex but without reproduction. “Doing what comes naturally”, is no longer biologically viable, because what is natural to us, is a consequence of genetic damage.This explanation is not, however, very popular’ because there is really nothing known that can be done to reverse it – things are already too late; symptoms of which, are (as ZMan said) that people are Just Not Interested in understanding the problem of subfertility, or do not regard subfertility as a serious problem (even though it leads, potentially via mutational meltdown, to human extinction).

Population decline in developed countries is not a problem. It should lead to better living with less congestion, pollution and crowding. The problem is the owners of capital need more eaters to buy cellphones, fast food and pay rents, so they are importing the worst kind of humans to keep the “growth” going, in the process crapping up the place for the rest of us.Korea, China and Japan should do just fine, as long as they keep out the brown hordes.Europe is drowning under the brown wave. Canada and the US are going under. Who wants to bring children into a world being overwhelmed by Africans, Mestizos and Pajeets?

There have been studies of other mammals that show the females simply stop reproducing when the environment reaches a saturation level.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001128070536.htmFor humans, this is made easier by technology factors like abortion and chemicalization of the food supply. But the principle is the same.Population density seems to be associated strongly with declining fertility rates, with religiosity and social norms as moderating factors.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34914431/I view the population decline as a good thing. I don’t worship GDP which depends on population growth – currently being achieved through mass immigration – to expand. Fewer people means more open space. Fewer highways. Cheaper housing with more land.I’m not a depopulationist in the eugenics sense. But I am the kind of guy who enjoys living outside of the city on a few acres whose neighbors are “way over there”. Suburban flight is just depopulationism by other means. People naturally seek lower density over time. Crowded cities are dirty, dangerous, and there’s too much competition for jobs and resources. As that becomes harder, biology kicks in.My hope is that as my three kids reach adulthood (they’re just getting into their 20’s) they’ll decide to move a little closer to home to settle down and raise a family. We put a lot of emphasis on family and we all spend a lot of time together. But I don’t operate under the illusion that we’ll have 15 grandkids. It’s just not where humans are heading.Seems to me that the fertility rates started to collapse when the human population crossed 3B.It started in the 1950’s:https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rateAt which time the population was about 3B.https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/There is only so much arable land to support humans. Take that number, divide it into 3B and you’ll get a rough idea of the global population density at 3B population. At 8B, you’ve more than doubled that peak density. And population growth has cratered as a result.Back of the envelope: population rates are declining 0.5% every 25 years. So we’ll be at negative rates this century.And don’t think anyone is making a good case for why it should continue to increase.

Perhaps there is a presentiment of doom. And nobody in their right mind wants to bring helpless babes into a world destined for nightmareland.

Although there may be multiple causes, some of them are a lot more obvious than others. E.g. birthrates have been generally falling since the IR, but it really fell off a cliff in the 60s after hormonal birth control was invented. Adding abortion without the father’s consent basically put women in 100% control of reproduction, and we’ve seen how they act when that is the case. Why would you want to give up the free infinite attention from male suitors in your 20s just to have 1 male giving you attentionwhilebearing the burden of pregnancy? The answer is you wouldn’t. And as anybody who has opened tiktok can attest, women crave attention above all else, and as long as they are getting it from random guys on the street constantly that’s all they really want.Then there are various aspects of feminism including corporate quotas, the ability to sue based on Title IX of the CRA for not hiring enough women, and welfare for single-mothers, which has helped eliminate the natural male role as the provider. Studies have shown that when the man in the couple earns less the woman herself leaves to find someone who makes more than her. So even from basic female psychology you can’t have a society with both a sustainable birthrate and women with jobs/education. What’s hilarious is that the academy admits this is true. Google for any study about fertility rates and education and you will see the correlation that more female education leads to a reduced birth rate in developing nations!Finally the family courts essentially make it illegal to have a family. She can divorce you at any time for any reason, take half your stuff, and in the worst case your house as well. (From my experience talking to other men this is usually triggered by her friends or family telling her to do it as opposed to her own action. Maybe the Taliban are onto something with the keeping-women-in-the-home-idea?) Then you get to play cuckhold simulator, paying alimony and child-support while she lives in your house with another dude. In other words, getting legally married is providing the male with no legal benefits and only legal costs. So why would they do it?There’s also the media, the withholding of information about pregnancy and fertility including the extreme difficulty women over 30 often go through to have more than 1 child. The constant girlbossing narratives in movies, telling women they need to have careers because men are deadbeats, etc. Other posters above have talked about these more subjective factors. They can be pretty far out there though. I heard one podcaster propose that women were limiting their children to <2 because only 2 children’s car seats can fit inside a normal sedan. The point here is that while both men and women have issues and problems, it is clearly the women more than men that are causing the immediate ones (as is very likely from the fact women are initiating 80% of the divorces). I don’t expect these problems to be addressed since you would first need a homeland to do it, but I hope this is a clear explanation.

I don’t know if “My Posting Career” or MPC is still around, but a poster called Pleasureman distilled most of the problems down to something he called SCALE. Size, Complexity, Atomization, Liberalization, Elitism. It functioned as a good explanation for all societal problems, but it definitely applies to our declining birth rates. Communities break down when you expand past Dunbar’s number at around 100-250. You can’t have high trust with people you don’t know intimately without strict reciprocal laws that guarantee some level of safety. The complexity of our society further drives the codification and bureaucratization of things since we have a very delicate machine that relies on international shipping of materials. A factory burning down in China might have some serious consequences for people in America.Atomization feeds off both of these things. If you can’t readily trust people around you (especially when the laws designed to preserve peace and order are enforced anarcho-tyranny style), you isolate and interact with only people you can really trust. Your home becomes your fortress that you sally forth from to go accomplish tasks rather than a domicile that’s a larger part of the community around you. Arguably, many Americans have always had a smidge of this kind of mentality due to living on the frontier with the savages, but it’s gotten so ubiquitous that during COVID, as you observed, many people adapted to living in their castles without missing a beat. The atomization plays into childrearing because, even in Northwestern Europe, nuclear families relied on external support from friends and family to raise families. You had grandparents watching grandkids and formal and informal community organizations designed to watch over and inculcate kids. As much as I hate leftists who use the phrase as an excuse to indoctrinate kids, it does take a village to raise a child. We’ve seen what one or two parents and an iPad does, and it’s not pretty.Liberalization is pretty simple. It’s tied in with both individualism and the loosening of traditional virtues. “Don’t settle down and have kids until you’re 30, maybe even 35. You’re young and it’s the best years of your life. Go out and travel and enjoy doing all of the things you can’t do with kids (trust me, I learned just how many of them there are when I started having mine). Kids create worries that don’t exist when you’re single, dating, or in a DINK marriage. Also, it’s your duty as an individual to be educated, have a good job, and have reasonable financial certainty before you have kids. Try and get as much pleasure out of life before you decide to have kids.” Of course fertility problems rear their ugly heads for those who don’t get sucked into the hedonistic childfree method of life. Nature won’t be mocked. The religious voices that would condemn any of this stuff have been silenced or made complicit in the “I’m ok you’re ok” Jesus who just wants everybody to be happy and nice to one another.Elitism is a bit tougher to apply directly to the antinatalism of our age, but it’s largely through societal pressures getting beamed down from “thought leaders” and media. Everything from the “environmental issues of overpopulation” to people’s eyes glazing over as they repeat “I don’t want to bring kids into a world this horrible.” Large families are demonized in media and usually depicted as uneducated morons who couldn’t figure out family planning or as cultish weirdos who have “fetishized” the act of procreation. That last phrase really sums it up. If you have sex for the reason lemurs, lions, and our forebearers have for millennia, you’re the weird one. The elite promote a view of sex that turns it into a non-narcotic recreational drug. Its just part of the bacchanalia, and kids are up there with STDs as one of the unwanted consequences.

Z is right that this is a complex problem with several causes, but at the top of the list is women’s rights. Rich country, poor country, urban, rural, black, white, when you give women the right to education, to work and to contraceptives, birth rates collapse.That’s big reason why people don’t like to talk about the issue much or if they do, they don’t want to look at a key cause . . . because that would mean talking about women’s rights in a negative way. I’ve watched videos and read articles about the fertility collapse and they either don’t mention women’s rights or dance around it.

When was the last time you met a woman proclaiming that her dream is to have a big family? Actually, I once worked for a large corporation where we did the “where do you see yourself in 5 years” exercise. A female colleague, 23 years old, said that she wants to start a family and eventually have 5 children. She left the company one year later to do the eat pray love thing in Asia. Today, she’s in her mid 30’s, with no kids.

I’ve talked to people about how South Korea has basically decided to genocide itself thanks to not having babies. They don’t really get it, or choose not to get it. The obvious implication of this – that feminism allows women to end civilization and end their people, if they so desire – seems too horrifying and too shattering to the liberal consensus to contemplate.

Is there anyone anywhere in the world who looks around and says “You know what this place could use? More people!!!” All of this fretting about demographics is really about our worshiping of the economy gods and the truly sacrosanct GDP along with Ponzi based retirement programs. We have to sacrifice to appease the economy gods. This is also why we are wrecking our nations with third worlders, to appease the GDP/Economy gods.

SS Africa is the only region defying the trend. What will Minnesota look like in 50 years after the swamping of the native pop. by the high time preference hordes? Bantus, Somalis, etc. are bad at debt management. That’s a huge problem combined with the general decline in population through a lower overall TFR. There just won’t be enough quality people to repay the high debt burden we face as a society. At some point it’s all going to collapse in on itself.

I think that all your items are contributing factors and that it is a multi-factorial problem, but I think there is another major contributor that you allude to some of its effects at times but don’t specifically mention, which is feminism. Socially this is a huge contributor to the changing social norms that you talk about some. It is hammered into women to seek first an education and career. This is a primary driver of the marriage age being pushed later and later. When coupled with steep decline in fertilty by the time a woman hits her 30’s, it makes it more difficult to have many children, even if desired.When younger the biological imperatives aren’t as strongly felt in women, and the you go girl boss feminism seems to make a lot of sense. But when biological desires become more apparent in their late 20’s and early 30’s, both finding a quality mate and having children both have become more difficult.Even as an older Xer Christian couple, neither who were opposed to marrying relatively younger or to having children, we unfortunately fell prey to this. We got married right at 30 and waited a couple of years to start trying to have kids. After many years, we finally had one child, though both of us would have liked more. Even in the church, which is generally more pro-child as you note, never did anyone in our lives bring up the timing priority of marriage, or trying to have childeren sooner rather than later. All the emphasis from parents, pastors, and other Christians was all more from a feminist viewpoint.Again, I think this combines with all the other factors you discuss, but I also think it’s a large driver in its own right.

There is never a right time to have a baby. Women rate higher in neuroticism, thus giving women control, any control limits fertility. Now what does control mean? Studies have been done and comparisons between countries made. Its not abortion, it’s not free childcare, it’s not the civil rights. It’s the mere knowledge that fertility can be controlled: timing sex around fertility cycles and pull out game. Any kind of sex education beyond it’s God’s will and His alone and humans go extinct.

A TFR of 2.1 (or 2.2, as Z says) isn’t the whole story. In fact it is – almost literally – half the story.If a woman has her 2.1 kids by twenty, and her children follow the same time frame, then said woman will be a grandmother by 40, a great grandmother by 60, and quite plausibly a great great grandmother by 80. Ok, so what? Well, if another woman has her 2.1 kids around 35, and her children follow the same time frame, then said women will be grandmother at 70, and long gone by the arrival of her great grandkids.TFR is still at 2.1 or whatever. But a whole generation is missing.

People don’t want kids because they watch the news.

I’m going to be superstitious here and blame Mother Nature. Nature always finds a way. Respect the Dao. Soon after hitting 5 billion people in 1987, we started getting busts all over. This is merely some dormant program that gets activated when the human population can’t cull itself through natural disasters, pestilence, and war. I suspect the rat and cockroach population has a similar dormant program.

Excellent point on restaurant food. Even the ones that are “family owned” that people are convinced have better food get most of what they serve off the same truck that stops at Chili’s and Cracker Barrel. The main difference is in the price with possibly slightly higher quality people doing the cooking and prep.

One major reason is that nobody wants to subject their potential offspring to the soulless, inhuman future the controllers are implementing. Another major reason is that the Earth is a very large, yet ultimately finite system. The problem is that the limits of that system are not clearly knowable by our crude human perception and tools.

As I understand it, the human population was between 1m and 10m at the start of the Holocene. Even 2000 years ago I think the human population was only around 200m. Human crossed the 1bn mark in around 1840 (I think). We’re certainly in overshoot territory right now. India and China are in extreme overshoot territory, and probably so is Europe. Europe’s natural carrying capacity is probably around 50m-70m. It’s got maybe around 450m or thereabouts today.

Well that was a helluva good kick off for the new year, Z. And you’re right… there’s a lot of stuff going on here.I am not one for preachin’ and speechin’… but the fella out at the little chapel in the country had a good point as he was going over the Exodus, and how the Egyptian pharoah was getting hit with plague after plague for refusing to release the jews … and he just keeps doubling down on stupid.Our preacher said we too live in an age “where the locust are eating everything that is left…” I personally think God has abandoned us until we come to our senses… but whadda I know? God does not talk to me, and I am lucky if I can see His hand move from time to time.We’re seeing it everywhere – in California where all the money that supported the fail safes for fire prevention was systematically cut… and where did all that money go? The money sent to the ‘Kraine is gone and no one knows where that money is either…and our politicos stare stupidly back at us from the television and computer screens and just shrug. And… we let them do it. The locust swarm us and we just stand aside and let them do what they do.Another theory I like is that we are all basically chickens with a bigger brain box. If you look at modern poultry birds, they have been engineered from the ground up to eat, lay eggs, get fat and get butchered. The breeding instinct has been bred right out of them and if they were all magically released into a plentiful environment they’d be extinct within 2 years. The males would still breed the females… but the females won’t nest and raise a clutch of eggs. Perhaps we inadvertently domesticated ourselves beyond our ability to reproduce?That was a good show today – have yourself a great weekend.

I wonder if the jabs are having any impact on this. With an advertised 70% uptake for the Western population we should probably be curious. Of course this problem has been with us a long time but the jabs could be making it worse.

Western education made white women a dysfunctional unreliable whore with full treacherywestern media and Hollywood described white women as self absorbed cunt with no honor is a quite correct assessmentAnd Western Education is 100% Jewish Problem is what white men did when enemy destroyed white women absolutely nothing, just rambling about individualismindividualism doesn’t save you from collectively concentrated attacks of enemy forces

I recall making the quip in jr high in the early 80s: “It’s television. It’s easier to turn on a TV than a woman.”

absolutely fascinating topic, thanks Z Man. Honestly, this could use a part II it’s that interesting and I think you could go easily go into further depth for more material. the deracination alone is something that was observed in “Bowling Alone” and has been a topic of interest of mine since. So many layers to unpack here.I’m dubious on the premise that we must continuously grow the population. Why? To prop up the ponzi economic schemes our empire thrives on? If the population shrinking helps usher in the collapse of this economic zone masquerading as a country, then maybe it’s something we should be applauding.

Excellent show. Thank you.Probably because it’s something that fascinates you as you said at the end.

Faroe Islands – I hear that one of the most popular imports there are south-east Asian women. Maybe that explains their fertility rate.

The chemical pollution theory would make more sense if millions of couples out there were trying, and failing, to have children. But we don’t see that. Something else is afoot.I grew up in a typical American community in the 1970s, when we consumed all kinds of rubbish, from ‘Hamburger Helper’ and Chef Boyardee ravioli, to Hi-C and Sugar Smacks; our mothers used Crisco religiously, as the ‘modern and healthy’ alternative to those awful animal fats that grandma and grandpa (who died in their 80s and early 90s) grew up on. Yet here we are, the hated boomers, living long and living strong.Oh and we had kids too. Plenty of them. Not like our parents, mark you, but enough – I think – to keep the ol’ world turning.All in the thermonuclear age. Or, if not the thermonuclear age, the ‘population bomb’ age, the ‘soylent green’ age, the ‘Future Shock’ age, the ‘peak oil’ age… onward we went, apparently, into a dark and disturbing future.Which is now here: 2025. The very sound of ‘2025’ seems apocalyptic if you grew up on the bleak prognostications of (say) 1972…So here I am trying to find the point. Humanity has bred offspring under generally awful conditions for, like, forever. No one knows what the TFR was for European women during the Black Death (1347-1349), but at a guess it sure beat South Korea’s today.Long and short: to blame pollutants for the global TFR crisis is like blaming lead water pipes for the fall of the Roman Empire.

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet in case I’m just repeating Z, but my take is that it’s the mouse utopia problem. You put people in an alienating industrial society and everyone is living a pointless existence just like Uncle Ted warned us about. The only mortal threats we commonly face in the developed world are diseases of obesity, it’s probably impossible to starve to death in the United States, and with no purpose in life for most people they just start acting like the crazy mice in the experiment, endlessly preening themselves and not having babies.

China mandated abortions in the One Child era. Women were dragged from their homes and given abortions in mobile abortion trucks. (They also have mobile death penalty vans) I have heard that China has hundreds of thousands and possibly even millions of “Black” people, which means they were born outside of the authority’s knowledge and so don’t exist on paper. This same government is still in power and will, in due time, outlaw birth control and abortion and may even mandate children.It is likely, IMHO, that if this were to persist, our leaders will do the same thing along with outlawing abortion. This seems unthinkable now, but when things change, things change. What is unthinkable becomes common sense. Just 5 years ago, governments around the world did what was till that point, unthinkable and ordered lockdowns and banned gatherings. China led the way in this by welding people into their buildings.

It has been assumed, because history seems to confirm it, that in good times people tend to have more childrenOr maybe this assumption remains true, but an economy that makes supporting dependents on one income nearly impossible, that inflates the price of housing assets so much that few young people can afford any kind of long-term housing stability, and that requires young people to spend a majority of their most fertile years “in education” in order to (maybe) attain wages above subsistence-level is not, in fact, an actual “good time”, regardless of what “line goes up” on government crafted “statistics” purports to say?

People had lots of kids in the past because it made economic sense. 99% of people lived on farms and they needed help. Children were feeding chickens and fetching water from a young age. Children used to be an asset. Now they are a liability. That sums up why we don’t have as many kids anymore. Our ancestors weren’t more moral than us and we aren’t a bunch of hedonistic wretches. The profit and loss calculation changed. From what I can see, that’s what’s driving it.

While I assume environmental factors are important, I think the rest of that is mostly summarized to outlook. Belief that your children can have a better life than you did.That, I think, is why so many boomers are basket cases — they had the whole duck and cover drilled into them from early childhood. Just as children today say they fear climate change, boomers had the impression that the world was going to end tomorrow. My generation was scarred by the probably mostly apocryphal stories of Grandma having to subsist on cat food. You can fill in whatever your teachers and peers used to terrify you, but the last generation that might possibly not be scarred by world events like that might be those born in the late 19th century. Their fears were mostly those that we evolved with, and had developed a culture around accepting reality. Things like deadly childhood illnesses just were. Cuts that got infected were deadly.I know we put off kids for way too long because I honestly believed all the people saying how expensive they were. Absolute hogwash. This myth persists to this day — my son had been brainwashed by his peers into thinking kids were too expensive until he had his first.Upshot is that I think it’s more correct to think that TFR is more a function of optimism. Between all the propaganda and psyops, and decline of society and religion, plus largely manufactured global crises that we now hear about 24/7, what kind of vile person would damn an innocent to that kind of existence? Look where the fertility rates have not collapsed — largely those with a positive outlook on the future.

“This flies in the face of what we think we knew about biology. It has been assumed, because history seems to confirm it, that in good times people tend to have more children, while in bad times they limit their children.”I believe this common explanation to be a misinterpretation of statistical cause and effect and basic history. First aspect, people did have/conceive *more* children before the IR. However, people were able to raise to adulthood *fewer* children. Therefore had a higher fertility rate to make up for a 50% childhood death rate of the time. Second aspect, after the IR, and especially with developing understanding of health and disease, the childhood death rates began their long decline—negating the need for high birth rates to ensure/secure a follow-on generation to care for the parents in old age. Third aspect, Feminism—coupled with birth control—starting in the 60’s—which allowed choice wrt conception on the part of the woman.The above is a more complete explanation of our current plight rather than the simplistic “good times, bad times” scenario—which was never a complete/thorough explanation.

Well, here is the scariest part about falling birth rate in the Western world (and east Asia). When Zman dies, he may get reincarnated into some Indian or African family and have no access to indoor toilet for his next life.

You can’t have a high birthrate and feminism. Let’s check in a year from now and see how the Taliban are doing with their birthrate. Amish are doing quite well too.

Speaking to the final segment reminds me that Infant Phenom had brought up a term largely discarded by our side, “socialism”. I realized why I find such Cold War terms unsatisfying and obtuse.Socialism, communism, capitalism…they are all predicated on Marxist economic materialism. That is, the blank slate of Man as a consoomer, and the Enlightenment assumption that a proper political balance can be found while disregarding biology, culture, and spirit.

I’m not just being a sperg pointing out nobody gets together and picks up trash in the park anymore. This is exactly what you are talking about when discussing the lack of community that now permeates most places. Everyone just assumes the municipal authorities should be doing it.Doing this would require a civic mindedness which no longer exists. People now live in zip codes and not communities. There are not a bunch of old women gossiping about the mess in the park and putting pressure on the younger folks to do their duty and go clean it up. The people using the park just throw their trash right on the ground. It’s nobody’s park and nobody cares.

Jeffrey Zoar has pointed out the microplastics; I’ve pointed out the trash clogging the rivers of the Turd World. It just hit me how the Southern Tier, for instance India, choked with plastic trash, has pthalates leaking into everything…and a surprising population drop regardless of culture.

Meanwhile, Trump sentenced to nothing in NYC in ridiculous case…But now maybe Trump understands why he should have pardoned Assange….

Fertility and morale go hand-in-hand. Modern or modernizing societies emphasize personal fulfillment and the materialism that some confuse with fulfillment. That materialism is poison to social morale and the religion that sustains it. Throw in easy means of contraception and, 𝘷𝘰𝘪𝘭à, you have a baby bust. The regime encourages the bust by anti-natal propaganda, which claims that the world is over-procreating when the reverse is the truth (in the First World).

An important aspect of empirical science is repeatability. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity has been demonstrated repeatedly in many venues by many different scientists. This practice earns credibility and points at a fundamental attribute of reality. The Mouse Utopia experiment has been demonstrated to be repeatable. Reproduction in the absence of fitness culling begets DNA pollution and a steady decline in robustness.

Throughout the westernized world, abortion is easier than contraception. Actually, abortion is THE contraceptive. As long as this mass murdering with impunity model remains in place, population decline is the only outcome possible.Where are the white men capable of stopping this insanity?Good luck with that.(This is just one more reason why Islam is set to become the global ideological force. Regardless of Islam’s real, pragmatic stance towards abortion, a Muslim woman can only resort to it with the man’s consent – yeah, let that sink in. It’s not clear if Islam is going to prevail, but if it does this won’t occur through sophisticated methods but via the brute force of demographics.)

another D: “Distraction”

“One of the many strange things about this age is that the most urgent issue facing the developed world gets the least amount of attention. That urgent thing is the collapse of fertility in every country with indoor toilets.”Crisis? It’sgoodthat population reduction is here, if it actually is. Lower quantity of life means higher quality of life: More room. Fewer traffic jams. Less air and water pollution. Less desperate mining the Earth for resources and urgent infrastructure construction.The only crisis is that Africans and other primitives are breeding like fruit flies. Their cities have higher populations than any in the Western world because privileged whites worship Africans and give them no end of aid so they can avoid the natural consequences of overpopulation.Rather than tackle the problem at its source, too many whites tolerate it and propose engaging in a birthing contest with the black and brown masses. That contest can’t be won by the first world, and even if it could, the result would be degraded quality of life and lower living standards in our own parts of the world.

Given the irreversible degeneracy of modern culture, and the irredeemable disgustingness of the non-whites, I see a worldwide collapse of birth rates as an absolute good. Best to start planning how to wind this whole thing down with as little pain as we can manage.I’ve recently passed the half-century mark, and I’ve not seen things get better in any given year in the last half of my life to date. Every living person, even if “doing well” personally, must see that things are in a state of decay that cannot be arrested, largely because there is no mechanism to change anything for the better. I have young nieces (because my brother couldn’t keep it zipped to save his life), and when I consider their future prospects I can only feel deep pity for them. They’ll never have stable marriages with reasonable hope of material security. If they do marry, they’ll either have to settle for bad, low-class mates or they’ll somehow find good guys and then cause enough drama/trouble to wreck that. Better they not become mothers.

Well that’s itI’m payin nowLong time coming

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Hungary has the right idea, award cash and tax benefits to the heritage citizens aka white MARRIED women who stay home and have babies…I believe some women who might otherwise be good mothers currently don’t have babies because they fear their male partner will leave them destitute at some point, but if an income could be assured them, no matter what, maybe the birth levels could be changed.