Promethean Thoughts

A popular argument in certain circles is that Christianity is to blame for the decline of the West, because it is blamed for various ills in the West. Individualism is often blamed on Christianity, because within most Christian sects, the individual has a unique relationship with God that is not dependent upon his relationship to his society, ethnic group or tribe. Another complaint is that Christianity demands openness, which invites in the sorts of elements antithetical to social solidarity.

There are many variations on this general theme and all of them have some kernel of truth to them. It is the heart of the rather silly argument behind the “woke right” nonsense promoted by crackpots like James Lindsay. He has created a new political scale where one end is any form of exclusivity, which he calls “woke” and the other end is complete openness, which he calls “classical liberalism.”  It is mostly nonsense, but it does illustrate the anti-Christian claims about liberalism.

Professional Christians do themselves no good in this regard by embracing and celebrating nation wrecking ideas like open borders, diversity, the worship of nonwhites and an obsession with Israel. Most low-church ministers sound like the tourism minister from Israel fused with the HR manager at a major corporation. Of course, the more traditional churches are in deep with open borders, often getting government contracts from people who would like to stamp out Christianity.

In the final reckoning, the Christian churches and their entrepreneurial advocates will have much to answer for over their role in the crisis of the West. The question is whether this is the logical result of Christianity, or is it a novelty that grew from the spread of liberalism, particularly the American form of it. After all, 18th century Christians were not in favor of open borders, and they certainly did not think the worship of Israel was their reason to exist.

For those looking to absolve Christianity, that is the starting point. From the conversion of Europe into the 16th century, Christianity fit neatly into and was an integral part of the feudal order that ruled Europe. The Church provided a moral framework for the secular rules, but also provided a moral authority for them. The Church was the ultimate answer to the question, “who says?” whenever it was not obvious that the king was the person with final authority in his domain.

It is only when people started to question the set of reciprocal obligations and duties that defined the European political order that we see changes in the relationship between Christians and the prevailing social order. The Protestant revolution was as much a result of the weakening political order as it was disputes over the traditions and practices of Christians. In other words, the changes in the political order can be blamed for the revolution within Christianity.

Further context is the fact that the Church was a different thing in the later Middle Ages than what it was at the end of the Roman Empire. The Christianity that evolved to flourish and survive within Rome, had to further evolve after Rome. It continued to evolve to flourish within the new feudal order that defined Europe. Once the feudal order began to collapse, the Church evolved to adapt, often with localized versions to meet localized political changes.

The same framing can be applied to America. In the New World, the old religion was free to evolve and do so under unique circumstances. The Calvinism of the Old World arrived in New England, along with Anglicanism and Presbyterianism. Soon, every Christian sect of the Old World was setting up shop in the New World, quickly evolving and splintering into new versions to meet new conditions. America was a great experiment for more than just self-government.

What we call progressivism has its roots in this Christian experiment. A century ago, progressive literature was riddled with references to Scripture. The reason for that is it had its roots in Christian movements like abolitionism, social reform movements and the Social Gospel movement. The argument against slavery that animated the Civil War were not economic or political in nature. The abolitionists were acting upon their sense of moral justice informed by their Christin faith.

The way to understand America since Gettysburg is to think of it as a religious crusade masquerading as a country. The covenantal form of nationalism that still turns up in our politics has roots in the founding the country. Northern nationalism in the Civil War, for example, was linked to America’s alleged destiny to free the world. It was not enough to celebrate self-determination. America had a duty to help all people free themselves from domination and that started with the South.

This is the error people make when trying to blame liberalism for the current crisis or blame Christianity for the liberalism. American liberalism of the type the Framers embraced was replaced by a variant that borrowed the modes of thought from Protestant Christianity but eventually left out God and Scripture. The hole of authority has been filled with vague concepts like the “tides of history” and other expression that can be replaced with “the side of the angels.”

This creates a dilemma. It is clear that Christianity in the Old World evolved to meet the challenges of the changing political order, driven by the spread of Old World liberalism, but it is also clear that the new forms of Christianity informed that liberalism, and in the case of America, created a fusion of the two. That new ideological and theological cause, dressed in the garb of reason and pragmatism, then dominated the West, at the point of gun, until we have reached this point.

In the end, blaming liberalism or Christianity is a fool’s errand. The root cause probably goes much further back. For example, universalism is only possible in a cosmology that has just one God. In a world of many gods, there are many sources of moral authority, so therefore no one can claim a single moral order. Then you have the curse of reason that was given to us by the Greeks. If there is one God and one morally correct way of living, then our reason should be able to discover it.

The good news for the Christians is that the religion has shown an ability to adapt that no other faith has managed. Judaism has survived for longer, but only as a folk religion serving a tiny minority. Christianity has survived as a majority religion, through the ups and downs of Western civilization. Despite its current condition, it will most likely adapt and once again give cause to the flourishing of Western people. The same fate probably does not await liberalism or progressivism.


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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

172 Comments

pyrrhus #436385 December 18, 2024 9:46 am 75
Christians were warned more than once in the Bible that they would be infiltrated by wolves in sheep’s clothing, because that was how Satan worked…The Protestant mega-churches are a perfect example, and so is the accession of women to clerical status, explicitly banned by Paul…The Bible in no way promotes open borders, quite the opposite since God created the races and the nations and threw down the Tower of Babel…Homosexual behavior was also condemned quite explicitly, and the example of Sodom and Gomorrah given….
ray #436403 December 18, 2024 10:31 am 29
Indeed. God’s mandate for humanity is nationalism, while globalism is considered a luciferian plot and threat that arises and eventually conquers in the end times. Which is now, and congealing fast. After Babel fell, the nations and the languages deliberately were divided (Deuteronomy 32:8). Globalism is reserved for the millennial reign of Christ on earth. It is forbidden to humanity until then.
Steve #436409 December 18, 2024 10:52 am 20
Exactly. Over the course of several centuries, but ramping up over the last couple was a resurrection of a variant of Marcionism, which is itself a rebranding of Plato’sTimaeus.You can kind of make a case for it because of the number of times God speaks of himself in the plural. The accepted explanation is, of course, the multiplicity of aspects that full actualization (Aquinas) requires. Anyone throwing away the Old Testament or speaking of Him as God of Love, leaving out the part about God of Justice, is falling for the honeyed words these false prophets.
TempoNick #436381 December 18, 2024 9:38 am 71
“18th century Christians … certainly did not think the worship of Israel was their reason to exist.” Honestly, I find this Israel worship personal insulting. It’s like these people have already thrown in the towel and have anointed the Jews as our superior overlords. Have some pride in yourself and in our people, for God’s sake.
Moran ya Simba #436383 December 18, 2024 9:45 am 73
Whether it is Israel, Jews or blacks, the worship of other people is a dysgenic perversion
Ostei Kozelskii #436456 December 18, 2024 12:25 pm 27
And it is unique to whites.
Bilejones #436511 December 18, 2024 3:30 pm 13
The White man’s disease: Xenophilic pathological altruism.
Pozymandias #436535 December 18, 2024 8:45 pm 3
The only analogous phenomenon that comes to mind in other races are those primitive tribes that thought Whites were literal gods when they first met them because their technology and clothing was so far beyond what they knew of. Perhaps the tendency of progressive Whites to worship minorities is somehow the other side of this. Modern White shitlibs have created a kind of reverse cargo cult surrounding other races. Instead of building wooden airplanes to summon back the airplane gods they adopt the crude habits of ghetto blacks or other primitive people. In this case the “cargo” is not something tangible, as it was for the tribes in New Guinea waiting for the magic planes to return, but rather some kind of salvation that can only come from aping non-Whites somehow.
Ostei Kozelskii #436600 December 19, 2024 11:54 am 3
Indeed. Worshiping wogs and hating their own kind provides them absolution for phenomena such as colonialism, imperialism and slavery, which they foolishly think were uniquely visited upon non-whites by whites. That guilt complex, which in its twisted way also grants them supposed moral superiority, lies at the heart of the mutants’ psyche.
Piffle #436430 December 18, 2024 11:22 am 6
Part of the issue is that the 20th century has made Americans wealthy. Israel became one of the golden calves to keep the goodies flowing.In the US at least, for the most part, the younger and poorer you are, the less likely you see modern Israel as worship worthy.
TempoNick #436437 December 18, 2024 11:37 am 27
The WASP ruling class is also stupid. I don’t think they completely appreciate the sleazy and nepotistic ways the Jews conduct business. For example, members of a very wealthy clan here were convicted of insider trading. They were like second or third cousins of whoever was on the board. Sure, they were caught, but how many others are there who weren’t?You don’t come from nothing, as 1% of the population and end up being 50% of all billionaires in this country just because God supposedly endowed you with higher IQ, which I’m also skeptical of. There’s a lot of underhanded stuff going on and our ruling class behaves just like the Redcoats the Continental Army ran rings around (or at least that’s what they taught us in school).
Citizen of a Silly Country #436454 December 18, 2024 12:20 pm 26
With Jews, I think that it’s a bit of luck and a bit of skill.Yeah, they’re fairly smart but explains a very small part of their massive success. Their main advantage is several behavioral. First, they are incredibly cocky on average, which gives them the balls to make huge bets – or to try huge schemes. Sometimes, it blows up, but sometimes, they win and are insanely rich.Second, they have zero respect for a society’s rules and have zero problem lying. It’s really incredible to watch. They can lie or sort of lie right to someone’s face and not flinch. It’s like a race of psychopaths. They just don’t feel emotion for other races. This is an unbelievable advantage that I don’t think that people understand.Third, they’re perhaps the most ethnocentric people on the planet.Finally, they are restless. Jews just can’t sit still and live their lives. They have a need to doing something, and something to them is getting ahead one way or the other. In a sense, this is impressive, but it borders on manic.Those traits are extremely different from your average European/White and gives them a huge advantage.Of course, Jews got incredibly lucky being the only clannish group in the West – until recently. They had these high-trust, individualistic – but importantly high-achieving – people all to themselves. Not only could they scheme with zero competition, the people that they were conning were themselves becoming rich and powerful allowing Jews to profit immensely.Naturally, Jews screwed all that up because that’s another one of their traits – going too far. Now, new clannish groups are coming to the West. Granted, they’re not as clever as Jews, but they still play the game. In addition, Jewish propaganda is causing Europeans and American whites to fall apart – which we have to take ownership of, btw. We let them do this to us.Regardless, I think that this explains the incredible Jewish success better than just “Jews are smart.”
TempoNick #436458 December 18, 2024 12:33 pm 6
Jews are hardworking and take education seriously. I admire that about them. They’re also crooked and nepotistic as hell. I neither admire nor hate them for that. I just hate our ruling class for not understanding that.
LineInTheSand #436465 December 18, 2024 12:59 pm 23
Many conservatives, maybe not you, make meritocracy their highest value and believe anyone who is smart or hardworking has a place in our country. This is like a society that values fighting skills demanding that the great fighters from a rival society be allowed in to their society. After all, these others are great fighters. They seem to be blind to the fact that the skills of the new arrivals may be used against them. I guess that they assume that the new arrivals will be so moved by this openness that they will embrace their new home.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436481 December 18, 2024 1:26 pm 16
By conservatives, you mean white conservatives. They are fools who can’t answer nature’s most important question: Who are your people?
3g4me #436534 December 18, 2024 8:30 pm 5
Excellent, excellent analogy, and it well illustrates the problem.
Piffle #436469 December 18, 2024 1:07 pm 7
I didn’t respond initially because I knew that you were at the very least anti-American Jew apologist.Citizen responded better than me. It’s quite obvious that you do admire Jews for being crooked and nepotistic. I will say this again: Go home if America does not suit. We got this.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436480 December 18, 2024 1:25 pm 9
Yeah, I should have mentioned that they are very serious about education. And, yes, hardworking but in an oddly scheming, neurotic way Jews are a very talented (if flawed) people. No doubt. Like you, I neither admire them nor hate them as a whole thought I do admire and hate certain aspects about them and certain deeds that they had done. They are an opponent, indeed, by a million miles, our most important opponent. I simply view them as such.
Nick Notes Mugshot #436477 December 18, 2024 1:19 pm 24
The propensity of many White people to kick their 18 year olds out of the house to sink or swim and “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” has always been a bit harsh but made sense to some degree when Western countries were 90+ percent European descent. However, with increasing numbers Asians and Jews the rules have changed. The diverse peers of the White kids have have an extremely strong family and ethnic support network to draw upon for educational, financial, and vocational support. This is something that White kids out there on their own have difficulty competing against. And blacks have Uncle Sam running interference for them.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436482 December 18, 2024 1:28 pm 17
Yep, the game has changed. Whites either tribe up or get pushed around. Simple as that.
Ostei Kozelskii #436500 December 18, 2024 2:29 pm 12
Pushed around is putting it mildly.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436503 December 18, 2024 2:40 pm 3
Tru dat.
Piffle #436515 December 18, 2024 3:51 pm 3
We are “pushed around” in part because we lack morals. EM Jones is repetitive, but he’s correct. The break down of the family and sexual mores leads to a docile and literally impotent society.
Piffle #436514 December 18, 2024 3:50 pm 1
Edited note: I didn’t see your other thoughts down stream before I type this up. This is a summary of them.When Whites tribed up the last time, we had a decades long world war. I think we need to try something different that’s not in strictly the material realm.In any event, post WWII can be thought of only the inversion of modern attitudes that appeared around the turn of the century. “Everyone wants to be part of my tribe (really me) and can be” is just as tribalistic and suicidal as traditional tribalism gone mad of the first half of the 20th century.The problem with “Who are your people?” is that people don’t like the answer. “Our people” are our Boomer parents, our off the charts liberal sister, that failed cousin. We can get upset with conservatives being yesterday’s lefties. There is no easy solution on the horizon in a world where families are of no consequence or responsibility. It’s perfectly fine for them to be scattered across the globe. We will return to health when “Aryan” as concept is laughed off as some sort of way to avoid family ties that it is.
RealityRules #436509 December 18, 2024 3:12 pm 9
This is spot on. I am sure everyone here is nodding in the affirmative from experience. Our parents throw us to the wolves. That is good when you are sink or swim in nature and grit, adventurism and high trust networking bring you to the top.When networks determine access to resources and when success depends upon credential accumulation and cognitive functioning to get those credentials, this strategy is a huge problem.Whites seem impervious to this. I like this thread because it is getting at where we are failing rather than blaming Jews. When we, at scale, combine more nurture with a bit of the harshness of nature as a sculpting and forging mechanism then we will become formidable again. This will be very tough for us, but in-group patrimony must be essential if we are to have any hope of thriving. The wolves we’ve been thrown to are very coordinated and organized. Now we keep our packs more engaged on strong formation and helping of our young.I know many midling Asians and Jews who would be ghetto dwellars but family and clan and networking keep them at a midling level. Of course how many White friends did I have who were extremely gifted whose broken family and total lack of tribe ensured they were that guy who never fulfilled his potential.During feudalism that system took care of this. Our future is Our past in that we must take the best of feudal Occident and apply it to a new Occidental Patrimony system that looks out for Our kind above all others. I am sick of our young growing up thinking the other people are just smarter. No. They have massive support networks that underpin their success.
Piffle #436519 December 18, 2024 4:10 pm 8
“I am sick of our young growing up thinking the other people are just smarter. No. They have massive support networks that underpin their success.” Exactly. This is where Whites have only ourselves to blame. We got selfish and lazy when it came to our own families. It was a contract, that ended at 18. Relationships don’t have end dates like that.Even as I type this so many of the older generation is ready to invest in anyone else but their own children and grandchildren.
RealityRules #436539 December 18, 2024 9:39 pm 5
Yep. It is painful to have the parent that is supposed to nurture and then support you as a lifelong commitment be open to all manner of strangers. It is a spiritual sickness and broken-ness that is at the root. We have to forgive and just be way better with the chance we have. We are doing it.
Zaphod #436531 December 18, 2024 6:43 pm 9
It’s worse than that. We throw our sons to the wolves and pamper our daughters (who have their ways smoothed for them by the state, anyway). Suicidal insanity.
Pozymandias #436538 December 18, 2024 9:11 pm 6
Another asymmetry between young men and young women is that our young women are indoctrinated to reject any man who still “lives at home”. Of course no guy rejects a girl for that reason. Actually nowadays it probably means that she’s not a total slut who bangs a different guy every week. If anything it would make hermoreappealing to the best men.I ran into this all the time while in college. It never made sense to me to be spending all my money on rent when I could be saving it towards a house for me and my future spouse. It’s another example of how materialism and a stupid kind of individualism wrecks people’s lives at an early age.
Ostei Kozelskii #436601 December 19, 2024 11:58 am 2
The white father being a hard-case with his son while cossetting his precious little princess is a phenomenon that probably goes back centuries. White men can’t bear seeing their daughter’s tears, while his son’s anguish leaves him cold as a stone. Perhaps that’s as it should be. Toughened white boys up. It used to, anyway.
Zaphod #436647 December 19, 2024 5:07 pm 1
Toughening up is good. I was thinking more about how the Boomers would pontificate about giving their daughters the best chances in life even as the State and all institutions public and private showered said daughters with opportunities and benefits denied to males and bent the legal scales in their favour. It’s only gotten worse with Gen X parents. I’d argue that given present realities, not spending more on helping sons to get established and not leaving them more than daughters where legacies are concerned is nigh on criminal.
Piffle #436518 December 18, 2024 4:06 pm 7
“The propensity of many White people to kick their 18 year olds out of the house to sink or swim and “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” has always been a bit harsh but made sense to some degree when Western countries were 90+ percent European descent.”Kicking kids out of the house at 18 with no support is about break down of European families thanks in part to social and economic conditions. The strains and wealth of the industrial revolution made it possible. It’s about families about a work ethic and unwilling to part with money and/or kids leaving home because home life was uncivil and miserable.It never made sense. I speak as someone who has adult children living at home, who left at about 18. Without spouses, it’s ridiculous to send them out there so that my light bill goes down a little while they impoverish themselves to strangers.That said, European families or least English ones appear to have been marked by a severe streak of selfish dysfunction all around. Current economic conditions appear to be changing what is the social standard. Many people my age now have adult children living with them as sort of norm. Even with responsible adults we may still have to help them acquire housing when they are married.In other words, only true sociopaths will be sending their kids out to starve at 18 right now. It’s really questionable how the whole practice became “tradition” to begin with, other than economic conditions allowed for it.
Zaphod #436530 December 18, 2024 6:41 pm 4
The 18 and Out thing has faint echoes of the Germanic journeyman years tradition. Works nicely in a homogenous rule-following population. Going up against Jews, Indians, Amy Chua’s daughter(s) with a mindset like that will get you steamrollered though.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436399 December 18, 2024 10:26 am 38
The battle is the same as it’s always been: Who are your people?Jews answer that question correctly: JewsThe Church answers that question incorrectly: Christians.Jews are a people. Christians are club members. Club members can never compete with a people. We’re witnessing that now. Jews have conquered the commanding heights of the West quite easily because Christians don’t even know that there’s a fight going on.But Jews are running the West into the ground because they’re not built to rule over others. Even the Normans who despised the Anglo-Saxons understood that they needed to sustain their society rather than loot it with an eye on the exit door.The West is falling apart because it can’t answer the simple question: Who are your people?It will continue to decline until the various tribes within the West can answer that question like the Jews. When that happens, the Church will find all keeps of Bible quotes giving moral authority to that answer.
george 1 #436407 December 18, 2024 10:47 am 2
Great point!!
Piffle #436447 December 18, 2024 12:10 pm -15
“he West is falling apart because it can’t answer the simple question: Who are your people?” According to the Church, the West is falling apart because it can’t find God and even attempting to follow the pesky rules that everyone hates so much. The end of the Roman empire looked like a lot of abortion and sleeping around too. We have tried “Who are your people” in the early 20th century as social model. It led to a giant world war with a 20 year peace agreement in the middle.
LineInTheSand #436473 December 18, 2024 1:14 pm 5
Another result of the conflicts in the early 20th century is that everyone still operates according to “Who are your people” except the nominal winners of those conflicts. “Who are your people” did not end with those conflicts.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436487 December 18, 2024 1:41 pm 10
Family will never end. I refuse to follow a faith – whether that be colorblind civic nationalism or “God doesn’t see color”-style Christianity – that doesn’t acknowledge the bond among a people.
Piffle #436520 December 18, 2024 4:16 pm 5
Christianity insists that people have responsibility to their families first. That means not divorcing your wife when she’s old and inconvenient or treating marriage like a personal happiness contract. It means not cutting off inconvenient children. Honor thy father and mother is literally a commandment. It insists that everyone keep their pants on (and families intact) as a way to honor God.When Victor Orban speaks about protecting Hungary as a nation, he does it by saying that Hungary doesn’t matter, but she is part of God’s creation. Christianity gives the moral authority to close the borders and say “We the people matter.”
Citizen of a Silly Country #436486 December 18, 2024 1:38 pm 12
Enjoy going to Church with Africans and Mestizos. Then, enjoy them as your neighbors. Then, enjoy them as your kids’ schoolmates. We tried colorblind civic nationalism and “God doesn’t see color” for the past 50 years, and it has led to whites being on our knees begging blacks for forgiveness, to Jews running what was our country and to our lands being invaded and overrun by blacks and browns of every stripe. As horrible as they were, WWI and WWII caused less damage to whites than what you want.
Piffle #436523 December 18, 2024 4:33 pm 1
“As horrible as they were, WWI and WWII caused less damage to whites than what you want.”The collective Great War killed millions of Europeans. Worse, they killed many of what I think of as the cream of the crop. The alpha males that come to shape societies for the better gone out of more than one generation. We live in world so shaped by that event we can’t remember the “before” times. It’s been nothing but depression and drug use in the West since then. Yes, more tech toys, but the actual will to live has plummeted.“We tried colorblind civic nationalism and “God doesn’t see color” for the past 50 years, and it has led to whites being on our knees begging blacks for forgiveness, to Jews running what was our country and to our lands being invaded and overrun by blacks and browns of every stripe.”Insisting that we learn the lessons of history is not run to the other extreme of the same modernity. There is something else to believe in. It’s simply not that much of a leap to say “color-blind” is for Heaven and not here. (Which by the way is excellent Christian theology.) That our families are first after God and everything else aligns behind it. Even Pope Francis is pretty clear that nations do matter and that the issue with migrants has to do with helping the poor, not that there’s some Christian imperative for suicidal open borders.
Apex Predator #436533 December 18, 2024 7:01 pm 6
I marvel that you keep referencing the two great brother wars (at least 3 different replies here) that purposefully snuffed a large quotient of “cream of the crop”, your own words, Europeans. Largely alpha male types as you correctly surmise.Yet, you never think to ask–Cui bono?You hang out on dissident forums and you really have no idea what -actually- caused either one of these continental conflagrations? You have –never– seen the famous newspaper headline that PRE-DATES the 2nd World War declaring, “Judea declares war on Germany”. You know nothing about who had been in control of finance and banking in Britain in particular but across much of Europe?Really?Pro-Tip: Go search the internet a bit. Start with “The Greatest Story Never Told”, and you will likely stumble upon far more from there. Then come back and try to make a coherent point once you’ve unplugged yourself from the Matrix. You are trying to make points having no earthly that the history you’ve been propagandized to believe about the 20th century is largely a fiction.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436491 December 18, 2024 1:43 pm 7
By the way, who are your people? And, no, Christians are not a people. Christians are various peoples who share a religion and not much else.
Piffle #436522 December 18, 2024 4:26 pm 2
I know who my people are. It’s my at times silly secular Boomer dad. It’s my off the charts liberal sister who for many decades has a best friend that substitutes for me. It’s my now deceased Mother who was being unable to process the pressures of modernity to be a good mother. It’s my husband and children.Yes, I have Church family too and yes they are not related to me. Nothing about my social circles says it’s okay to blow off my physical family. It’s quite the opposite.There are people who want their chosen fellowship to be their family. It’s the hazard of modernity. That’s not that far gone from seculars who do the same. In fact, I’d argue that people wandering around looking for a White “tribe” are doing the same thing as the open borders people. They want to invest in theoretical perfection, rather than deal with the family that God gave them.
Alzaebo #436483 December 18, 2024 1:29 pm 2
This exactly. We are under mimics; unfortunately, their mimicry is a broken parody of /us/. Thus we are twice misled, by mirroring a cracked mirror.
Dutchboy #436659 December 19, 2024 8:52 pm 1
The Christians of the past dealt with the Jewish problem by forbidding them citizenship, thus preventing them from holding any public office and having influence over the state. Christians were in effect the tribe. The fly in the ointment was the greed of the Christian elite, which allowed the Jews to practice usury as long as they gave the elite lower interest rates. This led to widespread hatred of Jews and their expulsion when the elite could no longer repay the loans.
Moran ya Simba #436378 December 18, 2024 9:31 am 36
Not myself much of a Christian but our woes are not caused by Christianity. I think they are caused by affluence, the soft life and the resulting crash in testosterone levels. Rome, golden age Arabia, ancient Greece, ancient India, ancient China and the antecs all went through this cycle of softness leading to collapse. When young boys stop washing in cold water in the morning, you’re over the hill. Glubb remains the best brief intro to this.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436410 December 18, 2024 10:54 am 9
Yeah, a lot of this is just the natural life cycle of an empire. When times get hard, watch whites tribe up and get tough. The Church will follow that change and find lots of scripture to give it moral authority. The Church and secular rulers have a symbiotic relationship, but, ultimately, it’s the secular rulers who lead the way.
Piffle #436426 December 18, 2024 11:21 am 5
The secular rulers lead the way in the state. The Church is impacted by living in the world. It does have to adapt to the civil conditions in which it finds itself. However, if I can borrow a phrase, the Kingdom they have their eyes on is not of this world. Stable societies are the positive leftovers of a society with faith. They are not the direct goal of it.
Citizen of a Silly Country #436436 December 18, 2024 11:35 am 14
I agree with that. A society without faith (or with a false faith) will die. The Church influences leaders and vice versa, but when the people make a shift both the leaders and the Church shift with it.
Xman #436440 December 18, 2024 11:45 am 15
“…our woes are not caused by Christianity. I think they are caused by affluence.”Yep. Christianity has been abandoned in favor of capitalist materialism, which is fundamentally Jewish. Marx observed this inOn the Jewish Question:“The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews…Indeed, in North America, the practical domination of Judaism over the Christian world has achieved as its unambiguous and normal expression that the preaching of the Gospel itself and the Christian ministry have become articles of trade…Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities…The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew.”In contemporary materialist/capitalist/Jewish society, the government welfare state has taken over the historic duties of the Church in providing shelter, education, medical care and alms for the poor, and trinkets and entertainment to keep them quiescent.People in Western Civilization no longer pray to God to help them shoulder their burdens like Christ shouldered his cross, they demand Medicaid pay for opioid soma provided by the Jewish Sacklers.
Ostei Kozelskii #436460 December 18, 2024 12:36 pm 7
The Jews dominate capitalism, and of course, they dominated Marxist-Leninist communism. Praytell! Is there any sphere they do not control?!
Xman #436468 December 18, 2024 1:07 pm 10
Both capitalism and communism are modern constructs of artificial, materialist, industrial society. They are in fundamental agreement that materialism governs Man, they merely differ as to how to manufacture and distribute material goods. Both are progressive ideologies which assume that at some point in the future, Man will be sated by the production of artificial material goods.Christianity is a premodern, pre-industrial ethos that attempts to deal with the existential facts of human suffering, death and impotence when confronted by the overwhelming power of Nature and Nature’s God.By contrast the Jewish religion is a worldly religion, thesummum bonumof which is the Kingdom of Israel, and this Promised Land may be obtained by trickery, murder, theft, slander, etc. of the goyim.Because Judaism is a worldly religion, it is compatible with both the materialist and worldly ideologies of capitalism and communism.Christianity is the antithesis of worldly materialism:“…the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan!” Mt 4-8-10
Ostei Kozelskii #436501 December 18, 2024 2:35 pm 4
Good answer. However, I think Max Weber was correct in bowling out the “Protestant work ethic,” which is ostensibley motivated by predestinarian doctrine and the belief that material prosperity suggested strongly that one was part of the elect. At its root, Christianity may be less compatible with materialism than Judaism, but secondary developments have narrowed that disparity.
Piffle #436517 December 18, 2024 3:58 pm 3
From my Catholic POV, particularly Calvinism has strong parallels with Judaism, both culturally and philosophically. Calvinism has that same “God loves me bestest” about it as modern Judaism.For historical proof, I’d offer the observation that many to most of the Jews who fled Catholic Spain converted within two generations to the Calvinism they found in the Netherlands.Other branches of Protestantism are much closer to Catholicism. However, those groups are much more easily influenced by Calvinism than Catholicism, particularly in place like the US. In other words, I see Christianity on a continuum from Catholicism to an opposite extreme in Calvinism. The later of which I see as modern Judaism with some Jesus in there. My view in other words is that Christianity is what it always was. However, developments post 1600 have dragged otherwise well meaning Christians towards Judaism.
David OConnell #436544 December 19, 2024 9:18 am 2
Our church is a Calvinist sort of Baptist and we do not preach a “God loves me best” message. We preach that the process of being saved is not a “all of sudden you’re God’s bestie” sort of thing, but a lifelong process involving a lot of struggle with a lot of sin. We would wonder about the sort of person who paints a pretty “God loves me bestest” picture about themselves as they wrestle, or even backslide big time into sin and wonder if they ever truly gave themselves over to God in the first place.We also view the church as the true Israel and do not fetishize them as unbelievers with benefits.
Piffle #436470 December 18, 2024 1:08 pm 1
Modernly in a global economy, no unfortunately. I find that even Popes have to bend the knee occasionally. Early 20th century observers were a pox on both houses sort of opinion.Jews own the factories and the news outlets,etc.
Zaphod #436532 December 18, 2024 6:46 pm 1
The heliosphere. But they’ll gladly sell you a timeshare there.
Steve #436472 December 18, 2024 1:14 pm 1
I take everything that lamebrain said with less than a grain of salt. As a far better mind than his put it, “marxism is a religion for the useless, damaged, and uncompetitive. it provides pandering pretext to play the jihadi and to justify going around taking that which belongs to others by vilifying virtue, merit, achievement, freedom, and flourishing and making it seem unfair that such things result in success and satisfaction.”–el gato malo If Marx said anything of any value, it was completely by accident. He’s not even “stopped clock” right.
Xman #436529 December 18, 2024 6:32 pm 5
I am not a Marxist, but I believe it is incorrect to be completely dismissive of him. He was very well-read in the Western canon of philosophy, and very insightful. His main contribution was to ask what the purpose of the Hegelian dialectic and Western “progress” is. I am not convinced that either of these questions have been adequately answered, and further I posit that in its own way “capitalism” can be just as dystopian as “communism” was.I think Marx’s teleology was wrong, I do not believe that there will be a borderless global utopia when the proletariat rises up and seizes the means of production. That’s utter fantasy and far too dismissive of human nature itself.Further, Marx’s writings were often tedious and long, and beyond that he was an arrogant asshole who was a political advocate and polemicist while simultaneously claiming that his insights were ironclad science and would inevitably come to fruition anyway.It’s also the case that “Marxism” in practice was far different from what he theorized, Mao, Lenin and others had to deviate quite significantly from “orthodox” Marxist doctrine when it became obvious that the ignorant, illiterate proletariat were actually incapable of revolting — unless they were led by bourgeois intellectuals who had plowed through hundreds of pages ofdas Kapital, LOL.
Dutchboy #436658 December 19, 2024 8:46 pm 1
G.K. Chesterton compared a socialist to a man who had an ambition to make sure all children got enough milk to drink. He quickly discovered that ensuring that was hard to do, so he then advocated the abolition of milk.
Jeffrey Zoar #436526 December 18, 2024 5:18 pm 1
If civilizational decline is the price of hot running water, I’ll take it
george 1 #436392 December 18, 2024 10:05 am 32
I don’t see that what we have in America today, in the vast majority of “Churches,” is Christianity at all. If you attend a church that uses the phrase “Judeo-Christian” or professes that the modern state of Israel is the Israel of the Bible, then you are not attending a Christian Church. More like you are attending a Satanic gathering. Of course there are many other accepted deviations as well. You can hear them every Sunday from your woman or gay male preacher. A person trying to find a Christian Church in America today will find very few options.
TempoNick #436395 December 18, 2024 10:15 am -28
I don’t have a problem with the term “Judeo-Christian,” myself. There’s nothing wrong with accentuating what we have in common, which is the old testament. Words simplify things for the very large numbers of people who don’t have a broader grasp of things. However, I do agree with you guys that many people also confuse this and conflate the two. I’m with you guys on being against it from that angle.
Hun #436397 December 18, 2024 10:21 am 46
Modern Judaism is based on rejection of Christianity. And Christianity itself was always a rejection of Judaism. “Judeo-Christian” is subversive nonsense.
Steve #436418 December 18, 2024 11:08 am 5
You can probably count on the fingers of one hand who understand that Talmudic Judaism comes not from the Hebrews, but from the Pharisee sect that He was ragging on all the time. You don’t even need that many to count the number who understand the difference the Pharisees represented. Judeo-Christian is not incorrect, strictly speaking, so long as one is speaking of Tribe of Judah. But it confuses the matter, because most people only think of Rabbinic or Talmudic Jews.
Piffle #436443 December 18, 2024 11:54 am 11
Where is the tribe of Judah in 2024? All I can find are people claiming that without any Levitical priesthood or remnants of any other tribe. Both of those existed in Jesus’ time. Revelation refers to fake Jews twice. Modern genetics tests trace most Jews to apparently the Caucasian mountains. That’s Judeo-Christian is just total garbage. Medieval observers understood what 70AD meant for the ethnic lines of the Israelites. We advanced peoples can’t seem to get a handle on it.
Steve #436492 December 18, 2024 1:44 pm -3
“Where is the tribe of Judah in 2024?” Completely irrelevant. It’s exactly the same as “refuting” Aristotle by pointing out he died more than two millennia ago. The ideas of the tribe of Judah exist independent of whether there are any living representatives of that tribe.
Hun #436507 December 18, 2024 2:56 pm 2
In Talmud?
Piffle #436525 December 18, 2024 4:37 pm 1
“The ideas of the tribe of Judah exist independent of whether there are any living representatives of that tribe.” The tribe of Judah was only one 12 (13 really) of the Israelites. The OT is the story of the Israelite nation. It’s the ideas of the Israelites that matter. Judah wasn’t even the priest tribe of them. It’s the mixing up of modern Jews and an ancient and now gone nation that gets moderns into trouble.
george 1 #436406 December 18, 2024 10:44 am 18
Well for instance there is no “Judeo-Christ.”
Hun #436427 December 18, 2024 11:21 am 5
There is. He is going to be inaugurated in one month.
george 1 #436444 December 18, 2024 11:55 am 2
Good point! I stand corrected.
Bloated Boomer #436542 December 18, 2024 11:51 pm 2
This actually made me lol IRL, so thanks for that. Made my day.
Ivan #436412 December 18, 2024 10:56 am 11
In that context words manipulate. JudeoChristian is a modern construct. It is used by evangelical fundamentalists to brainwash non-critical thinkers into believing there exists a linkage between revelation and Daniel portending the end times and the rapture in a hysterical dispensational theory concocted by john Darby in the 1800’s. There is also big money in it. Dallas theological seminary for example.
c matt #436479 December 18, 2024 1:21 pm 5
Bigger money is in prosperity gospel – just ask Joel Oilsteen.
Tars Tarkas #436446 December 18, 2024 12:04 pm 16
According to Judaism, our Lord and Savior is boiling in excrement. Judeochristian is about as sensible as christiansatanism or Judeoislamic. It’s just total bullshit.
c matt #436478 December 18, 2024 1:19 pm 12
Judeo-Christian is the exact type of modernist subversion that St. Pius X warned about. It takes words with one meaning, and then gives them another, practically opposite meaning. As pointed out, “Judeo” and “Christian” are mutually exclusive. But by using “Judeo-Christian” they try to foster some sort of commonality, if not communion. “Elder brothers in the faith” is another – no, our “Elder brothers in the faith” became the first Christians.
Scot Irish #436524 December 18, 2024 4:35 pm 4
You sound like Ben Shapiro.
Tars Tarkas #436448 December 18, 2024 12:12 pm 7
All of the major denominations are corrupt at the national level. However, there are very good individual churches, even churches who belong to a corrupt denomination. Certified wrong-thinker James Edwards, host of the Political Cesspool on the radio belongs to a church that left the denomination rather than expel Edwards for his wrong-think. If every church in America was like this, the churchians would be running for cover.
Steve #436497 December 18, 2024 2:11 pm 4
There are not many churches in my neck of the woods, but when the town council decided to honor the faggotry in June, the church I attend (though will not join) was the only one to object, formally or informally. All the rest were either corrupt or too cowardly.
G Lordon Giddy #436384 December 18, 2024 9:45 am 25
I grew up with tough men who still considered themselves christians. They worked hard, faithful to their wives, and built farms and communities. When they went to the movie theatre back in the 60’s they saw very good entertaining westerns like the old Clint Eastwood ones that portrayed the parson as a weak man and the uncommitted single wandering childless cowboy as the idol in the movie.Christianity can be a masculine answer to peoples need or desire for religion if it was not continuosly subverted both inside and outside the faith.
TempoNick #436389 December 18, 2024 9:52 am 20
“faithful to their wives” I’m convinced that the vast majority of men who cheat on their wives weren’t out looking for it–it was a woman who showed interest first. Women are sexually bolder, more shameless and amoral than ever before.
Jeffrey Zoar #436394 December 18, 2024 10:09 am 11
This is almost certainly true of prominent/celebrity “alpha” men, who have to deal with high quality (looks wise) women throwing themselves at them constantly. They can remain faithful in the face of this onslaught 99 days out of 100, but 1 day of weakness and then they’re a “cheater.” It’s easier for the average fella to resist such temptation which, conversely, probably doesn’t happen to him much more than 1 day out of 100. Thus, among average joes who are unfaithful, I’m inclined to believe quite a few of them went looking for it.
TempoNick #436404 December 18, 2024 10:32 am 15
I don’t know. Of the guys I’ve known who’ve stepped out on their wives, it was the woman who signaled their openness first. Nothing overt like, “Hey, let’s fvck!” Just more like being overly friendly and open to interaction. Brush on the arm, sending signals, etc. (I’m not talking about posting personal ads or anything like that. I’m talking everyday real life encounters.)There’s a store near my house I go to all the time. They’ve got a MILFy employee who looks a little more cleaned up than your average middle-aged retail store worker. I’m guessing she’s a retired teacher or government employee of some kind or maybe an empty nester. She always looks at me a little longer than normal. That kind of thing opens the door for someone so inclined and I think that’s where it starts more often than not. (Of course, she might be wondering who this freak is and why is he always in this store, LOL.)Maybe I’m going to have to start dressing better when I go to the store. 😂
Jeffrey Zoar #436411 December 18, 2024 10:56 am 14
You’re a great example of what I was talking about. If you’re not Quasimodo, some woman, somewhere, sometime, is going to send you signals. But you have time and space to think about it, assess your options, and make a decision. And the decision you reach is on you, not on her.
TempoNick #436424 December 18, 2024 11:17 am 1
Absolutely.
TempoNick #436428 December 18, 2024 11:22 am 2
We’re saying the same thing in different ways, but I still wouldn’t be hitting on this woman on my own initiative. That’s what I’m talking about. I think most guys are like that. They don’t want the drama in life, but they might be flattered when the door is opened first.
Eloi #436489 December 18, 2024 1:43 pm 7
You know, it is almost like there are several sections of the Bible that deals with this concept…
Lakelander #436527 December 18, 2024 5:31 pm 2
For those of us on the spectrum, we can’t read those signals and if they make it blatantly obvious: “Oh, she’s just being nice!”
Compsci #436419 December 18, 2024 11:10 am 6
Hell, every man should start dressing better from my point of view. In my burg, dirty, baggy jeans and shorts seem to be standard issue.
Compsci #436415 December 18, 2024 11:06 am 10
Regardless that the woman showed interest first. A good/strong man is expected to shun such when committed in marriage. If folks are weak, and men are often, then one takes precautions against such encounters/situations. For example, I never allow a woman into the home if my wife is not there. Obvious exceptions for family. That there is evil in the world cannot be used to justify evil in oneself, which is sort of what you hint at.
TempoNick #436432 December 18, 2024 11:24 am 3
I’m a 100% believer in the Mike Pence rule and agree with you in general. I’m just talking about what is happening in real life and why I think the wheels have fallen off. Women are bolder these days (and I’m not saying that my story is an example of that).
Alzaebo #436452 December 18, 2024 12:16 pm 7
Accept it with good grace as flattery, and move along your day.
Xman #436462 December 18, 2024 12:47 pm 17
Eh. I think what we need in this society is a bit more misogyny. Unless you are a high-school kid, a piece of ass is not the end-all and be-all of the universe. They’re only putting out because they want something — attention, money, excitement, status, whatever. Usually it’s not worth all the bullshit and drama she is going to subject you to sooner or later. As they say, “The fuckin’ you get ain’t worth the fuckin’ you get.”Allowing women to lead you around with pussy is like Gulliver getting hogtied by the Lilliputians. Great and accomplished men are not out there simping for a piece of ass.The phrase “Quit fuckin’ around” exists for a reason: wasting time with whores didn’t put a man on the moon, put America on wheels, build your home, or make an airplane fly through the sky at the speed of sound.Unless she’s bearing children made with your quality white DNA for the future of the white race, chasing pussy is basically a counterproductive waste of your precious time on God’s green Earth.
Steve #436508 December 18, 2024 2:56 pm 4
“A good/strong man is expected to shun such when committed in marriage.” Yep. If a man puts that little value on his promises, neither should anyone else.
3g4me #436475 December 18, 2024 1:18 pm 10
Anyone can be tempted – that’s one of a multitude ofreasons that schools, offices, the military, etc. were sexually segregated when girls/women were first permitted entry. If a guy spends most of his office hours working and talking with a woman (secretary, team member, etc.) while his wife is focused on her own job and office politics, or the kids and family life to the exclusion of the marital bond (a mistake MANY women make), then it’s natural for a bond to develop. Same if he’s traveling a lot. But in the end, women have theright and responsibility to say “No thank you.” Male sexual nature is what it is. The fault is on the women.
TempoNick #436512 December 18, 2024 3:35 pm 1
100%
mikebravo #436408 December 18, 2024 10:48 am 22
Liberalism has a lot to answer for but the elevation of women into positions of power will be the main cause of the collapse.
Valley Lurker #436425 December 18, 2024 11:18 am 4
Oh c’mon, Nancy Mace seems totally stable and not at all like the ex who keyed your car.
Alzaebo #436463 December 18, 2024 12:53 pm 4
It is not that women are a special evil, and men a special virtue; no, it is that such leadership now is deigned to ‘win’ through submission, rather than through strength.
btp #436387 December 18, 2024 9:48 am 17
The people who blame Christianity for what ails us also leave out the fact that the Church has been losing bloody wars for several hundred years. Yes, the Church has been a lickspittle to the desires of our demonic ruling class, but look at what happened when they were not lickspittles:Tortured to death in places as diverse as England, France, Spain, Italy, and Mexico. Even in the US, there are plenty of examples of tough, no-nonsense priests getting their brains splattered all over a wall (Birmingham in the 1920s, for one example).We know that terrorism works. And a lot of what you see in terms of, say, Catholic Charities deciding to take money in exchange for resettling invaders in our country is downstream of a centuries-long terror program that has cowed the Church into a willing submission to the rulers.But that’s this timeline. In some other world, the Catholics in Birmingham burn the city down in response to their murdered priest, and impose a different structure on the state for the next century. Or the guys in the Vendée manage to carve off part of France and institute a different kind of monarchy. Or whatever else. And then you would see a different kind of Church. But in our timeline, there’s nothing for it.
Vizzini #436439 December 18, 2024 11:44 am 16
In the New Testament book, Acts of the Apostles, which chronicles the events immediately after Jesus crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, Peter is preaching at the temple:Acts 241 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44 And all the believers [av]were together and had all things in common;45 and they would sell their property and possessions and share them with all, to the extent that anyone had need.46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their [ax]meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.Virtually all the people talked about there areJewish converts to Christianity. Thousands of them.In the very next chapter, he warns Jews who have not converted:Acts 317 “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers also did. w18 But the things which God previously announced by the mouths of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has fulfilled in this way.19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times.22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your countrymen; to Him you shall listen regarding everything He says to you.23 And it shall be thatevery soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’Some translations render “utterly destroyed from among the people” as “cut off from the people.”There’s not a lot of wiggle room there. “The People” who enjoy the covenant with God are the descendants of those Jews who followed Christ, not the ones who turned their backs on him.Of them, Jesus says:John 839 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus *said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me.43 Why do you not understand [p]what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word.44You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me.46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, becauseyou are not of God.”So the modern fashion for treating modern Jews as specially blessed by God has no foundation. They have their chance, though Jesus, just like the rest of us do.
S-Doc #436431 December 18, 2024 11:24 am 14
I must take issue with your comment that “moral justice” motivated abolitionism. The abolitionists were the sons and grandsons of New England slave traders who had made enormous fortunes in the trade and whose laundered money still forms the nucleus of vast fortunes in the Northeast to this day. Read about Brown University as one example. These hypocrites used morality to disguise the real motivators- sectional hatred, political dominance, envy, economic chauvinism, do as I say, not as I do, and phony self-righteous crusaderism. The reason the Underground Railroad ended in Canada and not New England was that free blacks were not welcome in over 99% of New England, and the Black Codes and Jim Crow segregation were widely practiced in the North, including New England.
Jeffrey Zoar #436433 December 18, 2024 11:27 am 6
It’s sort of like how today, the main denouncers of “white privilege,” indeed the inventors of that term, are those who benefited the most from it. So of course they would know the most about it. Often, descendants of the very people you are describing.
Steve #436457 December 18, 2024 12:25 pm 2
Dunno. I think the Methodists, Baptists and Quakers were acting on principle. The Radical Republicans and their ilk largely fit your description, though. And the Underground Railroad is a bit more complicated. It’s true that blacks were not exactly welcomed, but the primary reason to end in Canada was that the Fugitive Slave Act did not apply there. Escaped slave or not, there was a lot of money to be made capturing blacks and sending them South.
Anon #436379 December 18, 2024 9:33 am 11
Z, what do you think of general argument proposed by EMJ? He claims the christian churches have been taken over by tinies – https://rumble.com/v5k4dhx-emj-live-93-the-collapse-of-neocon-catholicism.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp he has several other videos in his channel.
thezman #436386 December 18, 2024 9:47 am 10
EMJ is a great example of the old jibe, “He tastes Jews in his sandwich.” The Church has been taken over by liberals. many think their liberalism is rooted in Scripture and the traditions of their faith, but the Church once defended slavery for the same reasons.
Paintersforms #436398 December 18, 2024 10:23 am 2
Question is who is Israel? Covenant or blood? Anglos love blood. See: evolution, genetics. OT loves blood, too. Protestants read the whole Bible. Things get mixed up. Crazy ideas about the lost tribes, etc. Kind of funny about the idealism, essentially, liberalism. Then again, compare English and American revolutions to French, German, Russian. ‘Britain’ still has a monarch, America still has guns and imperial measurements. Perhaps Anglo isn’t as radical as advertised. Supposing we’d be worse off if the continent had been predominant.
Piffle #436441 December 18, 2024 11:50 am 1
The English from personal experience are this side of reactionary. What it took to make them liberal was the slow, steady drip of what think of as anti-Christianity from Henry the VIII on.And yes, they read their Bible (with a lot of help) and think being one of the lost tribes would be a compliment or something. That’s the anti-Christianity talking.
Paintersforms #436484 December 18, 2024 1:30 pm 0
Maybe anti-Christianity, maybe pre-Christianity. Still a lot of pagan. St. Augustine vs. King Arthur, or something like that. Sort of a reaction against Christianity as the Celtic stuff faded, resulting in a split from Rome, the Puritans, then a reaction against the Puritans resulting in a rediscovery of the pre-Christian myths and legends during the Enlightenment to present day. And maybe, like Z seems to be saying, another swing back towards Christianity to come. Interesting nation. Germanic component typically muted, in spite of massive influence. Why is that often the case? Anyway, idk, rambling.
Hemid #436494 December 18, 2024 1:53 pm 0
He’s far more anti-white than antisemitic. His anti-whiteness is rhetorically Christian—the Zimbabwean convert who can’t read the Bible (machete-ing your raped daughter for disposal) as earthly superior to the agnostic Dane (who rejects the former’s claim to Christian Denmark)—but the specific version of it he embraces was invented by a modern Jew (Ignatiev), and his arguments default to the “Talmudic,” semantic trivia and smugness. If EMJ’s antisemitism is an extremely convoluted disgust with himself, he’s right to be consumed by it.
Paintersforms #436513 December 18, 2024 3:39 pm 0
I think it’s the Logos thing. He’s pretty anthropologically old school. Talking about French being the language instead of genes recently, for instance. That line of thinking can lead to PoMo, if I understand PoMo lol. Seems like he’s trending that way, so yes, what you’re saying makes sense. I think there’s something to be said about OT/NT along the blood/language line. Maybe even Jew/Christian, frankly.
Nooneimportant #436537 December 18, 2024 9:01 pm 2
You say he he sees Jews in his sandwiches, but the three primary authors of the most politically significant document of Vatican II, Nostra Aetate, were all converso jew priests, and you don’t have to take my word for it. Here is some Brit Jesuit exalting in it:https://web.archive.org/web/20191101205523/https://www.jesuit.org.uk/articles/nostra-aetate-%E2%80%93-moral-heart-second-vatican-councilI see jews in “my” Vatican II. But it’s all just an odd coincidence, right big-brained Mr. Z?
Jack Dobson #436416 December 18, 2024 11:06 am -6
EMJ is intellectually dishonest and it is catching up to him. It will be interesting to see how he responds if he ever gets threatened with ex-communication over his Jew hatred, which no longer is rational and fact-based. I know which way I am betting.
David Wright #436423 December 18, 2024 11:16 am 10
I have read a few of EMJs books and found value. Ultimately though, he comes across as hating jews more than he loves Jesus.
Piffle #436435 December 18, 2024 11:33 am 1
Yes, ultimately I think he’s spent too much time with the JQ. He’s surprisingly sane though for so much time spent on it.
Alzaebo #436459 December 18, 2024 12:34 pm 4
You can run, or you can attack. Heaven is not the problem; Hell is the problem for which white intelligence was made to confront. I don’t know who EMJ is, but this is why I’m not a spiritualist seeking to uplift others; either to heal the infection or to kill it is a cure. Having reviewed Holodomor and Gulag details, I am in a murderous mood; we will go from mammon-worshippers to muslim conquest to the hideous Reign whose full horror was manifested, and lives with us still in subterranean industries. Satan can WIN, this must not be allowed.
Piffle #436474 December 18, 2024 1:16 pm 4
EM Jones is a open and serious Catholic who has written numbers of works on the history of the Jews, WWII, Holodomor, and the like. The open Catholicism is part of the package. However, he is not an apologist for the faith or a religious leader.I personally find his repetition fatiguing while finding him correct on all points that he has researched/is invested in.The bottom line from EMJ is that the Jews are not the friends of Christians, they will push open sexual degeneracy that will allow political control of the masses.And I was serious that EMJ is surprisingly sane for having wrestled with the question for decades. People either have to pull back or they lose their marbles, one or the other. While he does repeat himself often, he still appears to be open to new ideas and correction.
Piffle #436438 December 18, 2024 11:42 am 6
Trent Horn and other YouTube Jewish apologists are not the formal Church nor part of the formal teaching office. They have taken the stereotypical Jewish inclination towards advocacy, organization creation, and attention seeking and used it mostly for good in so much that they are trying to explain the Catholic faith.EMJ commentary is about self appointed Horns of the world who will insist on creating “sins” around the Jewish people when none exist. The actual Catholic Church is different organization all together.The formal Catholic Church structure is surprisingly low on Jewish converts. It also is not neo-con, even if people are frustrated with a few messages here and there that seem to align with that view.Most US Protestant churches have been deeply influenced by Jewish culture. It would not surprise me to find many megachurches have Jewish converts at their head. That influence is over all of US culture though. Even US conservative Catholic culture struggles with an over saturation of Jewish influence, something I have personal experience with.
Götterdamn-it-all #436401 December 18, 2024 10:28 am 10
Regarding the Christian sycophants who slavishly support “muh Izruhl”, I became so incensed by the attitude among some members of my church, I simply stopped attending services. I’m sure they’re crowing their fool heads off by now. How in Jesus’ name can I receive communion from the hands of a person who is blithely ignoring the enormity of Israeli crimes against innocent civilians? These people do not WANT to know about it. But Z’s comments on the adaptability of Christianity is well taken. This, too shall pass.
Steve #436422 December 18, 2024 11:16 am -2
“How in Jesus’ name can I receive communion from the hands of a person who is blithely ignoring the enormity of Israeli crimes against innocent civilians?” Did He preach about all the innocent people the Roman Legion were killing? His kingdom was not of this world. Paulianity put the foot in the door of “in the world, but not of it”, which has morphed into the political mess all sides have made of the church. “If you don’t have the same political views I do, you aren’t a real Christian.”
TomA #436400 December 18, 2024 10:28 am 10
All religions are codifications of ancient wisdom that proved itself via the test of time. They persisted because they “worked” in the sense of enhancing the ability of a people to survive and thrive in their local environment. Christianity is the evolved mechanism of this persistence for most Caucasians, but also works for many other peoples, hence its omnipresence. And in all religions, the concept of God solves the problem of persistent belief in the face of unknowns and contradictions. When religion fails, ancient wisdom is lost, and survivability declines.
Alzaebo #436496 December 18, 2024 2:11 pm 2
Excellently, marvelously put- but the unspoken acknowledgment of others is that when speaking of God, they are thinking only as God relates to their people. In other words, they are thinking of their God; other peoples’ fate is not their concern. The Enlightenment swallowed the poison M&M of the Bronze Age propaganda, that another people’s God was the same as the Creator; by legalistic sleight, those supremacists sought to argue that since their God was the highest above all others, bad logic deduces that the two must be the same, and we fell for it.
Ostei Kozelskii #436451 December 18, 2024 12:16 pm 9
What is the ur-source of today’s sorrows? Who the hell knows? One can go as far back in history as one wishes to descry the wellspring. Richard Weaver pinned the blame on William of Ockham’s nominalism. I would be more inclined to cite Protagoras’ relativism (“Man is the measure of all things.”), which prefigured baneful poststructuralism by over 2,000 years. But the farther back in time one ventures, the more tenuous the thread. The facts are that Leftism as we know it was born in the French Revolution’s radical iconoclasm, and the New Left anti-white racism in the second half of the sixties. And those two conjuctures not only did not spring from Christianity, but were openly antagonistic to it.The problem, in other words, is Leftism, not Christianity. Unfortunately, Christianity’s prelates decided to subordinate Christianity to the Leftist ideology that has come to dominate the West over the last 300-plus years. Rather than tread the stony, oppositional path of Christ himself, they chose to make Christianity a plaything of secular forces inimical to Christianity itself.Suicide is painless; it brings on many changes.
ray #436396 December 18, 2024 10:20 am 9
I find little Christianity taking place in the modern churches of the West. The churches and the pastors are cucked, embracing liberalism in its most feral form of Progressivism. If the pastors don’t, they face the wrath of wifey and empty collection plates. After which, horrifyingly, they’d have to become real men.Reading actual Scripture — instead of embracing leftism and calling it Christianity — makes it abundantly clear that Christianity is an ELITIST religion, that never was meant to be widely popular. ‘Many are called but few are chosen’ and the repeated assurances that only a select minority enter into ‘everlasting life’ in heaven.When Christianity is popularized it loses its power, authority, and balls. Inevitably it succumbs to the World, which is identified in the Bible as the very throne of the ENEMY of Father, Christ, and Christianity. This planet is satan’s world. Christ was not some simpy, weeping wet washrag, He was — and is — a Lion and the epitome of masculinity. As this pathetic, treacherous planet will learn in due time, the hard way.
Steve #436434 December 18, 2024 11:29 am -1
“Christianity is an ELITIST religion…” And nowhere is that more clear when people say, “But we cast out demons in your name” etc., and He says go away, He never knew them. It’s a little sobering to think I haven’t done a whole lot of raising the dead or casting out demons or walking on water…
terranigma #436498 December 18, 2024 2:17 pm 8
The Promethean view misses two important factors. One is war in all its ways. If you take Christianity seriously, you have to accept that there is an Adversary. The Gnostic Heresy from the first century is a prime, real world example of that Adversary in action. It is also an early example of a narrative used to warp perception, and in a way that fits what Christianity says about him. Anne Hutchinson is another historical example of the propaganda side of the war arriving in America all the way back in 1631.The other factor is that people create or mold beliefs in accordance with their nature and that nature is not static. One of the interesting aspects of the Bible is it acknowledges this truth while putting forward the claim that the Christian faith can fundamentally change a person’s nature. Regardless of the claim, the evolutionary view of Christianity changing in accordance with the surroundings is not accurate in a strict sense, particularly if you take Christianity seriously. There is an entity put forward by the Bible, along with whatever background factors are in play, that constitutes the origin entity for Christianity. Christianity as practiced by various people in various times and places is a separate entity, which is Christianity according to X.Christianity according to Protestant America has changed as the nature of the people have changed. Our host has noted that America is a woman, and in line with that, the Christianity practiced by modern America is Christianity according to the corrupted feminine. One overt example of that is the butchered version of the Bible that modern Prots sometimes hand out which contains only Psalms, Proverbs and the New Testament. The crux of the example is that this version of Christianity according to X has shed a great deal in order to appease and align with the nature of the corrupted feminine, even before we get to interpretive corruption or linguistic innuendo.I can make an equivalent case with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, but that is beside the point.The Promethean question is far more complicated than tracing the face-forward expressions of Christianity according to X through history. You have to delve into the inner nature of a people dead hundreds or thousands of years, and then parse out what factors have created that nature to what degree even as their nature morphs over time. The generational politics in American discourse is a testament to how muddled that is, as well as how quickly a nation’s inner nature can change at the surface levels while maintaining a degree of consistency or resilience in the deeper ones.The answer to whether Liberalism or Christianity is more to blame for our present woes misses the fact that America is a corrupt woman. Liberalism is an expression of the feminine nature in politics, and Christianity according to modern America is largely an artifact of modern America being a corrupt woman more than a Christian one.
Jack Dobson #436421 December 18, 2024 11:11 am 6
Puritanism is giving Marxism a run for its money in the death count department. Given its recent cavalier attitude toward nuclear war and its proclivity to align with Israel, Puritanism may prove out to be the bloodiest ideology. And, yes, it is ideology. Christianityper seisn’t the problem, but this variant certainly is. Take out God and you get what we have now, Woke. As Southern graveyards can attest, this fanaticism has consequences.
Steve #436442 December 18, 2024 11:51 am 0
Can I ask what you mean by Puritanism? I take it you mean it in some pejorative sense, not the beliefs themselves? I don’t see your typical Congregationalist as a warmonger, and don’t see a whole lot of influence of Congregationalists in the State Department, or anywhere in the maladministration.
Jack Dobson #436453 December 18, 2024 12:17 pm 2
It is a pejorative for moral fanaticism and crusades that originally manifested in many of England’s and shortly thereafter New England’s churches. As the name implies, Puritanism went beyond a reform movement into a crusade to rid the Protestant churches of what was seen as residual Catholicism and even ol’ Scratch’s hidden hand. Puritanism is totally secular now but the fanaticism and impulse remains the same. Its stated goal is to cleanse and obviously to purify. Genital mutilation of children followed on from witch burning. It is a pose more than a faith and that was the case in a far less secular era.
Steve #436461 December 18, 2024 12:42 pm -2
Hardly surprising that the establishment derided dissidents, is it? Weird that they were so hated for “prudery” when they opposed not sex, but sex outside of marriage. The rest of the church was just fine with infidelity; indeed, absolution was good for the offering plate. I’m guessing genital mutilation is circumcision? Didn’t know that was part of Puritanism. I’ve only ever read about their religious views and how it was treated by TPTB.
kerdasi amaq #436405 December 18, 2024 10:37 am 5
The truth of the idea that Christianity is responsible for the decline of the west is unimportant to the people pushing this narrative. What matters to them is that it is established as accepted truth. That is the real issue.
Hun #436382 December 18, 2024 9:41 am 5
Where does the obsession with Israel come from? It doesn’t fit into the proposed model.
Vegetius #436402 December 18, 2024 10:29 am 14
Revelations, the Scofield Bible, the founding of Israel in 1948, an aggressive program of subversive influence on the part of Israelis after the 1967 war, and Hal Lindsey.
c matt #436464 December 18, 2024 12:58 pm 2
Don’t forget that other guy . . . Hoagie? . . . Higgee? . . . Hagee!
Alzaebo #436493 December 18, 2024 1:50 pm 2
A hard-right Christian pastor said the first Scofield Bible was commercially produced in 1913, I thought it was introduced much earlier? He held up a big, thick 1905 family Bible, the kind with births, deaths, marriages, lineage in it, like most families used to have in their home. Then he compared that to the smaller Scofield Concordance Bible, and said it came out in 1913, which is a most auspicious year.
Steve #436499 December 18, 2024 2:21 pm 0
Pretty sure it was a little before that but not by a whole lot. Many of the ideas precede Scofield. Pre-trib rapture and dispensationalism was being preached by Darby a decade or so before the War Against the States.
Piffle #436476 December 18, 2024 1:19 pm 1
If you mean obsession by the governing elites, that one is simple. They need to make the Big Lie real. God’s people will be in ownership of God’s land to have it all not be a grand LARP.
Hun #436485 December 18, 2024 1:37 pm 1
There are plenty of Christians, especially in the US, who are obsessed with Israel.
Hokkoda #436540 December 18, 2024 9:58 pm 4
“The Church provided a moral framework for the secular rules, but also provided a moral authority for them.”And then, people started abusing that moral authority leading to revolution. The same is happening today with our Marxist Pope and his obsession with putting God in the back of the progressive’s agenda bus.America has squandered its post-war moral authority after attracting sociopaths who abused their moral authority leading to the current revolution. Governments collapse in Europe, and Canada might be next, for the same reason.Christianity will soldier on because its core principles are eternal. Thought the actors change, the characters of the New Testament can be found all around us. There is always a new generation hungry for a guide to the world they see around them, and here’s this carpenter from 2,000 years ago describing their neighbors…and he’s kinda shockingly right about human nature and the path to a virtuous and happy life.Eventually every system encounters sociopaths who destroy it unless the tower guards spot them and kill them first.The Constitution was an attempt to built tall towers with marksman archers to protect the fortress.But eventually the marksmen get bribed to look the other way.
My Comment #436528 December 18, 2024 6:00 pm 4
The switch from religious extremism shifting from Christianity to Wokism and Zionism has been encouraged by the Jews but it has been wholeheartedly embraced by white women, particularly single ones.Traditional religions are patriarchal. They involve trying to be a better person, reading religious texts and debating their meaning.Those are all things many women hate. They don’t want to perform. They want to be loved as is. They don’t want to have to read and study old texts unless they get gold stars and a grade for doing so. They definitely don’t want people to be able disagree with them and expect them to justify in a coherent argument their positions. And they really, really hate being told they are wrong.Thus with the woke religion it is evil to even ask simple questions such as “who decided this?” “Is this really to our benefit?”The appeal of Zionism as the greatest value of Christianity is similar. It is a feel good belief that helps bring about Christ part 2. The fact that biblically it is nonsense is only a problem if you bother reading the Bible and are willing to take a strong stand that hurts you on Facebook.
Hi-ya #436414 December 18, 2024 10:57 am 4
The way to understand America since Gettysburg is to think of it as a religious crusade masquerading as a country im reading a bio of Jefferson and he believed the tenets of the enlightenment were timeless and boundless. He was called the apostle of the enlightenment. And he was in no way a Christian. But he also didn’t seem to want America to be a busy body or a financial power but a land of farmers.
Neoliberal Feudalism #436393 December 18, 2024 10:05 am 3
What you are describing here, Zman, is what I think of as theegalitarian ratchet effect. Basically, the core values of a society double down on themselves and intensify over time until either those values are transvalued into something else, society collapses from within or it is conquered from without. Here, Christian-derived egalitarianism has intensified on itself over time; as the historian Tom Holland has stated, the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution were still based on the “the first shall be last and the last shall be first” which derived from Christianity, as does the racial egalitarianism we are now experiencing in the West. Even so-called atheists like Richard Dawkins still retains the morals and assumptions of Christianity even though he discarded the formal religion.This post goes into the egalitarian ratchet effect:https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/the-egalitarian-ratchet-effect-whyAnd this one discusses how Trump won’t do anything to do stop it:https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/the-consolidation-phase-of-the-egalitarian
Guest #436504 December 18, 2024 2:41 pm 6
Utter nonsense. The French revolution was explicitly anti-Christian (or at least anti-Catholic), and the Russian revolution was nearly entirely Jewish and anti-Christian.
Dutchboy #436654 December 19, 2024 8:40 pm 2
Not only does Catholicism forbid the degeneracies promoted by our overlords, the Church has always been patriarchal and hierarchical, also anathema to our overlords. The whole liberal project to separate religion from public life and invest almost total power in the secular state is intrinsically anti-Christian and has been disastrous for the societies that have implemented it.
Piffle #436449 December 18, 2024 12:12 pm 2
An excellent article and analysis. Thanks for the read!
Gauss #436417 December 18, 2024 11:07 am 2
“…the changes in the political order can be blamed for the revolution within Christianity.” Arguably, the Reformation also caused changes in the political order. In other words, the causal arrow also pointed the other way. According to Will and Ariel Durant’s telling, that was the direction.
RealityRules #436388 December 18, 2024 9:51 am 2
“Most low-church ministers sound like the tourism minister from Israel fused with the HR manager at a major corporation.”Pure Z-Man gold.When I was in high school at the end of the junior year, youth emissaries from Israel came to all of the AP classes and promoted Israel and its people as the gold standard in goodness. I suppose that is breaking down.As for Judaism, I wouldn’t underestimate it. I was in a Florida airport some time back when in the morning two Jews put on their garb and the arm wrap and the ajna eyeglass and looked toward Jerusalem and started swaying to and fro doing their incantations. They had a tremendous sense of power and you could feel the energy as they pointed toward their temple and communed with their divine energy source.What Christian does that? What Christian points to a Western capital, does a ritual that energetically connects them to God and to their focal point of the source and where they, as their God promised, will shine their light in dominion over the earth?10/7 awoke many who were going to slide into modernity and undergirded the supremely powerful history’s victim but God’s ultimate victor story.There is a part of me that thinks that even if Christianity has a role to play, it must mend the severed connection with our divine lineage that goes far back before the Levant. Dyeus Pater and Sol Invictus and its incarnations as Wotan/Woden/Odin must be reconciled. Those divine energetics must be felt and then understood and captured in the soul of Western man. Otherwise, the Chinese and other groups will lay claim to the origin story. At a time when we are undergoing cultural genocide, invasion and total dispossession that origin story is critical. And, given DNA, anthropology and linguistics we know it is true and just how far back to the beginning of Us, not them but Us, that it goes.Christ is an interesting twist on the Father Son mythos of Indo-European people. I don’t know my Greek mythology well, but I believe the Greeks already have this figure going to Hades conquering chaos and ascending with the logos. That can be in our tradition, but Christianity is new. I believe this adoption must mend the schism that was made with our past. That pagan past is energetically and cosmologically (both physically and meta-physically), correct. Perhaps the starting point of Christianity is to cast aside the Levantine origin and come together with its Greek (and thus Indo-European), origin.A lot of thoughts. This is a spiritual battle. Watch an incantation of a public tefallin ritual and you will see that we are not spiritually ready and thus cannot capture the massive energy that our project of re-possession, survival and then re-ascendence will require. Ironically, we have put ourselves up on a cross and cry out, “My God My God why hast thou forsaken me!?!?” However, it is we who have forsaken our All Father and His pantheon that is connected to our origin. As we go through this Hades as a people we must come to understand our God(s) and our relationship with him. Ultimately, as Indo-Europeans it is that it is within us to attain standing through virtuous action and then have His energy live within us as we ascend not in waiting for God but soaring as Him.
RealityRules #436391 December 18, 2024 10:03 am 0
P.S. As evidence of our spiritual bankruptcy look at this, “MAGA advocates”, big priority. We simply can’t compete with people who are a people and who have a deep conviction about who their God is, where his earthly dwelling/communion ground is, (his temple), and that securing it has primacy over all. Our great advocates want to set up off shore Miami’s. Nice idea, but the house is on fire. Another sick White man who needs to find religion and which must strike him with terrific bolts of lightning to shake him from his stupor. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/american-singapore-a-maga-agenda-for-puerto-rico/
Compsci #436429 December 18, 2024 11:22 am 10
Give me a break. PR has been given special status and tax breaks since I was a child. They are still a basket case of sorts (gee, I wonder why) and we want to give them more? Here’s a summary from a quick ChatGPT search:“For Individuals:1. Act 22 (Individual Investors Act):• Offers a 100% exemption on capital gains, dividends, and interest income earned in Puerto Rico.• Designed to attract wealthy individuals to relocate to Puerto Rico.• Requires individuals to establish bona fide residency and make contributions to the local economy.For Businesses:2. Act 20 (Export Services Act):• Provides a 4% corporate income tax rate for qualifying export services companies.• Exempts 100% of dividends distributed from earnings generated under Act 20.3. Act 60 (Incentives Code):• A consolidation of tax incentives (including Acts 20 and 22), offering similar benefits.• Aimed at promoting investment in areas like technology, finance, tourism, and manufacturing.General Corporate Taxation:4. Section 936 Legacy:• Historically allowed U.S. companies in Puerto Rico to benefit from significant federal tax breaks, though this program ended in 2006.• Current laws provide partial benefits under successor rules to maintain competitiveness.Key Distinction from U.S. States:• Income sourced from Puerto Rico is not subject to federal income tax, except for federal employees or companies tied to mainland operations.• Puerto Rico residents do not pay U.S. federal income taxes on Puerto Rico-sourced income, though they do pay federal taxes on income sourced from the mainland or abroad.These incentives make Puerto Rico particularly appealing to high-net-worth individuals and companies seeking to reduce their overall tax burden, provided they meet residency or operational requirements.…”Really, they need more “special” considerations? Note PR is not an American State. They are not MAGA in any true sense. Hell, they’ve voted on Statehood vs Independence repeatedly, but repeatedly reject both. Think of PR as a large “blue” city in a large blue State—nothing more than a welfare queen.
Alzaebo #436488 December 18, 2024 1:42 pm 1
Judas preist. PR should be our Taiwan by now.
Compsci #436506 December 18, 2024 2:51 pm 1
It would be. And could be at least our Singapore. However, it is populated by Hispanics, or rather Indios. Their IQ is not up to the Chinese IQ, nor is their work ethic. Therefore any attempt by Trump to beat the genetics of the island is doomed to failure. Yeah, you’ve heard this all before. But it’s still the best explanation we have for such “failure to thrive”.
Tarl Cabot #436420 December 18, 2024 11:10 am 11
Properly understood, the historical importance of Christianity is that it provided the spiritual and moral bulwark that saved European Man from cultural and genetic annihilation at the hands of the eastern hordes. From Aetius to Sobieski, Crusaders were able to reconcile Wotan and Jesus, however imperfectly, and preserve their people. This is what was lost in the so-called “Enlightenment”, but must be rediscovered if we are to survive- some combination of Aquinas and Evola, with a dash of Warhammer 40k.
Alzaebo #436490 December 18, 2024 1:43 pm 2
Oh indeed. And, by the 13th century, slavery no longer existed in Christian Europe (since its main industrial practitioners were no longer condoned.)
Templar #436543 December 19, 2024 2:25 am 1
This is what was lost in the so-called “Enlightenment”, but must be rediscovered if we are to survive- some combination of Aquinas and Evola, with a dash of Warhammer 40k. “My armor is contempt, my sword is hatred, my shield is disgust, in the Emperor’s name, let none survive.”
Alzaebo #436502 December 18, 2024 2:35 pm 0
The Great Lie was conflating spirit power with omnipresence (supremacy), since they had no science to understand the underlying mechanisms. Such had not been lost yet in Europe- their statuary often glorifies the great Greek themes that were abandoned in America. To remember who we are, we need remember who our God is.The way our minds work, we need explanations suitable to our kind- this will rekindle the smothered flame.
DLS #436521 December 18, 2024 4:25 pm 1
This is a remarkably well written article, especially given the broadness of the subject matter. Two contradictory points on this line: “Individualism is often blamed on Christianity, because within most Christian sects, the individual has a unique relationship with God that is not dependent upon his relationship to his society, ethnic group or tribe.”The founders made clear our rights were God given, so that society cannot take them away. This supports the link between Christianity and individualism.On the other hand, Jesus boiled down all the commandments to two: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. The latter bonds the individual to society.
Severian #436450 December 18, 2024 12:15 pm 1
You could also view Christianity inside the Roman Empire as an essentiallyurbanreligion, a uniquely chiliastic mystery cult, well-suited to Hellenistic culture — that is to say, to urban culture (not a lot of Gnosticism out in the sticks). The Christianity of the Middle Ages changed the way it did because it had to be dispersed into an agrarian culture, with unique characteristics in every settlement. Now it’s trying to transform itself back into an urban religion, as even the tiniest towns out in the sticks have almost unlimited participation in the universal urban culture (of Social Media etc.). Which, alas, means piggybacking onto the dominant polity — the Emperor Constantine himself was said to have written most or all of the Nicene Creed. No surprise, then, that modern Christianity is just The Temple of the Current Thing. A much more aggressive localism is necessary.
Piffle #436466 December 18, 2024 12:59 pm 3
Seeing Christianity from the inside, it is neither urban or agricultural. These sort of outside academic analysis misunderstand it a great deal.
Severian #436471 December 18, 2024 1:08 pm 2
Seeing it from the outside isthe pointof academic analysis. You can’t see historical phenomena from the inside — that’s why it’s called “History,” not “Twitter.”
Steve #436495 December 18, 2024 2:01 pm 2
You are talking at cross purposes. You are referring to the effects of religion on greater society, even though the religion as practiced is not the “true” religion, which is what I think @Piffle is getting at. @Zman appears to be coming at it from an internal point of view — the institution itself will reform to suit the faithful. Either that or it will die. And so long as there’s a paycheck in it, the institution will reform.
Nooneimportant #436536 December 18, 2024 8:49 pm 0
“The Protestant revolution was as much a result of the weakening political order as it was disputes over the traditions and practices of Christians. In other words, the changes in the political order can be blamed for the revolution within Christianity.” This says to me that culture is downstream from politics, not vice versa, and I wholeheartedly agree.
Alzaebo #436505 December 18, 2024 2:43 pm 0
For today’s exemplary work, I must credit our esteemed Compsci. He lamented that he had worked to give his kids everything they need except a spiritual and social bulwark (of Christian community.) The Zman graciously answers in kind. My fear is that the purpose of the system is the system- for us to seek to purpetuate a system that worked for another time, a radically different environment, is like to trying to resurrect the America of 1912. Bow to the past, prepare for the future.
Steve #436510 December 18, 2024 3:13 pm 3
I wonder. I chose not to “indoctrinate” my kids in religion. It was something of a surprise when as early teens, they came into where my wife and I were reading and asked us to take them to church. Made me reflect a lot more on the idea that goes something like, “Believe in something or you will believe in anything.” That void will be filled, and letting some university prof (or now the intartubes) fill it with garbage doesn’t strike me as very wise. Which values do you want your children to have?
Alzaebo #436445 December 18, 2024 12:02 pm 0
Good lord. 75% of the Zman’s contributions are worth a semester, but this one is worth its own graduate degree.
Ted X #436390 December 18, 2024 9:56 am 0
What if Christianity (aka 12 Tribes of Jacob/Israel and their actual descendants) were a race not a religion ? What if the Bible did not establish a religion but is the record of a specific race of people [not “jews”] and their relationship to God ?http://www.lasotell.com.au/bi/Bible's%20Theme.pdf“From this point onwards the Bible records the history of Adam and his descendants only. It does not mention any other race of people except when they come into contact with Adam and his descendants. There were plenty of other people around – otherwise why did Cain say that anyone who found him would kill him? (Gen 4:14). If Adam and Eve and Cain were the only people on earth why – as stated in Gen 4:15 – did God need to appoint a sign by which Cain would know that anyone he met would not kill him? (This would have been a recurring natural phenomenon like the rainbow which the Elohim appointed later on for Noah, and all life on Earth, as a sign that the Earth would not be flooded again.)”“…The Bible is not a book of religion; Jesus founded no religion – He came only to His own things, His own land, His people, His Temple, but those who ruled these things [Edomite Pharisees] rejected Him. The Bible records the history of God’s dealings with one race of people only – the spirit-carrying race – and it makes no mention of the destiny of any other peoples either on the Earth or in Eternity.The Bible is also the record of the continuing war between God’s powers of the Spirit and Satan’s forces of evil [aka Jews] for control of that spirit-carrying people. The Bible reveals all of God’s plans for that people and how those among them who believe God’s Word will survive that struggle.Further Readings:https://www.lasotell.com.au/bi/*The main reason European Christians cannot understand their relationship to the 12 Tribes of Jacob/Israel, and wrongly believe themselves to be “gentiles”, is that they fail to understand the Israelites [not “jews”] were migrating into Europe in multiple waves for over a thousand years. This is why the apostles went straight into Europe to preach the gospels to their fellow racial Israelites and not to India or China or Africa etc.https://archive.org/details/identifying-biblical-israel-today-e-book/mode/2up?view=theaterAlso if you are still struggling to understand the definition of a “jew” this might be worth reading:https://archive.org/details/originofthewordjew2/mode/2up?view=theaterand if you still suffer under the incorrect belief that “gentile” means not “jewish” I recommend:https://sheldonemrylibrary.famguardian.org/Books/Gentile%20-%20Ewing.pdf
george 1 #436413 December 18, 2024 10:57 am 7
An Israeli geneticist conducted a study around the year 2000, that showed 97 plus percent of the DNA in Israel is Eastern European. I am told that it is now illegal to do origin DNA testing in Israel.
Yman #436541 December 18, 2024 10:38 pm -2
Christianity is a religion for slave, not for masters of the universe which nazi understoodit teaches you become a slave against knowledge such as Darwin, PlatoWhite people chose Christianity, and they became slaves for others It is Natural outcome that if you follow the rule for slave then you are a slavewhen Roman empire fell, actually there no ethnically roman people there in the first placethere were people of Just weak and inferior people with Christian teaching Han-Chinese ban the Christianity even today, and they had a real imperialist mindset
Zulu Juliet #436455 December 18, 2024 12:22 pm -6
The two great industrial wars put Christianity on trial. It survived on the faith of those who believed before the atom bomb and the gas chambers. As those people pass, Christianity is having a hard time answering the persistent question of how it was allowed to happen.
Jeffrey Zoar #436467 December 18, 2024 1:06 pm 6
Besides more modern technology, I fail to see what differentiates them from the many other devastating wars through history. The people who declare “The world is not the way I think it should be ergo there is no God” will always be with us.
Templar #436560 December 19, 2024 10:17 am 0
Amen.


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