Modern Sophistry

Date
Canonical
32797
Archive
32797 [history]
Categories
Podcasts

Every once in a while, I stumble upon a topic idea that vexes me because I am not sure where to go with it. A month or so ago I stumbled upon a Jordan Peterson video in which he explained why Jews are so successful in America. It was a bizarre thing that presented many jumping off points. Then the video disappeared from YouTube, as he no doubt has minions policing the site, so I went looking for it elsewhere.

I did not find it, but I found something similar that he wrote on his site back when he was being stalked by alt-right types asking him about Jews at his events. What came to mind was a post from five years ago where I used Stefan Molyneux and Scott Adams to explain the sophist of ancient Athens. For some reason that brought to mind this interview on the site IM1776.

It seemed like there should be a show about sophistry there or maybe a long post on the topic of profilicity which is related. The trouble is the topic is probably too big for a thousand-word post and maybe not big enough for a show. Anyway, I decided to wing on a show and let the chips fall where they may. That means the show will either be cheered as one of my best or jeered as one of my worst.

Something that did not occur to me while doing the show is that certain topics have become sophists tests. In fact, in retrospect I should have called the show that and made the show about the topics that flush out the sophist from the crowded field of people who present themselves as analysist and critics. If you cannot manage topics related to race or ethnicity, for example, you are a faker.

We got a taste of this in the vice president debate when Walz started ranting about how Finland has low crime but lots of guns. The online audience erupted in “what else does Finland not have?” while others remained puzzled by the question. If you know the answer, you know the truth, but if you do not know the answer or cannot understand the question, then you a faker or simply ignorant.

For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation via crypto. You can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 1047 Berkeley Springs, WV 25411-3047. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks. Thank you for your support!

This Week’s Show

Contents

  • Intro
  • What We Mean By Sophistry
  • What The Ancients Thought
  • Leo Strauss
  • Modern Sophistry (interview) (Link)
  • Sophistry & Democracy

Direct Download, The iTunes, iHeart Radio, RSS Feed

Full Show On Spreaker



Full Show On Rumble



Full Show On Odysee



To keep Z Man's voice alive for future generations, we’ve archived his writings from the original site at thezman.com. We’ve edited out ancillary links, advertisements, and donation requests to focus on his written content.

Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

184 Comments

Maniac #426977 October 4, 2024 8:08 am 48
The online audience erupted in “what else does Finland not have?” while others remained puzzled by the question. TheThirteenPercent.
Forever Templr #426979 October 4, 2024 8:18 am 4
Cool avatar, man.
Alzaebo #427030 October 4, 2024 11:12 am 2
*gasp* Careful, he might be a Hospitalier in disguise!
Tars Tarkas #426993 October 4, 2024 9:49 am 14
In other news….water is wet and fire is hot, new study finds…..
Compsci #427002 October 4, 2024 10:25 am 29
If one looks at the stat’s for the USA, say PISA or simple gun violence, anywhere US Whites are a *separate* category from other races, the stat’s improve markedly. In short, most all the bad stuff we hear about America disappears when we remove the other (inferior ?) races and we (the USA) begin to rate/compare acceptably with our European counterparts, who as of yet have not quite caught up with our “diversity”—which we all know is our greatest strength as a nation.Conversely, if one then compares the selected minorities taken from US stat’s, we see a strong relationship between these minorities’ “home country’s” stat’s. So that for example, we find high murder rates in South America that correlate quite well with Hispanic murder rates in the USA. These stat’s are (purposefully) not kept for obvious political reasons, but once in a while have been inadvertently/inconveniently produced.
Mycale #427045 October 4, 2024 11:58 am 17
In the heyday of NCLB, there was tons of data being made public about schools and it turned out that our best schools measured up to and even exceeded the schools of places like Finland. Of course you couldn’t talk about the demographic profile of our best schools… but that didn’t change the reality. NCLB was pure blank slatism, that with enough “resources” and the right “system” every school could be as good as the best one in Finland. Of course, it didn’t work, and was abandoned, and now the same people who pushed it will say that expecting certain students to turn in assignments on time is white supremacy…. While still believing in the blank slate.
Compsci #427117 October 5, 2024 11:29 am 5
Here is a good book on the matter: “Bad Students, Not Bad Schools” by Robert Weissberg, published in 2010. Weissberg’s book argues that many of the problems in American education are not the result of poor-quality schools or teachers, but rather issues with the students themselves. In the sections regarding students specifically, he cites numbers and races. One thing that sets this book apart (IIR) is the number of citations throughout. You’d think you were reading a journal article. Unfortunately, Weissberg passed away recently.
Steve #427132 October 5, 2024 1:52 pm 0
Getting in before the rush. “Weissberg? Hmmm”
Compsci #427151 October 5, 2024 4:41 pm 3
I am not known for my “spidy” sense wrt Jews or the Jewish Question. I do however analyze the content of authors wrt reasonableness. Weissberg seemed to pass to my satisfaction.
Steve #427156 October 5, 2024 4:56 pm 0
Agreed. Likely no one would have said, “Yeah, but JOOO!.” because it agreed with the preferred policy… I do appreciate the reference.
Xman #427166 October 5, 2024 9:05 pm 2
In any group which we look at with askance, there are “good ones.” Our evaluation of other groups is based on inductive reasoning, i.e. what the probability is that a random sample of that group will be like. Weissberg was one of the “good ones.” I had not heard that he passed, but if that is true it is unfortunate.
Greg Nikolic #427009 October 4, 2024 10:43 am -22
Compsci, what you say is accurate. But bear in mind that cultures change over time. It is theoretically possible that the Hispanic in America will have grandchildren whose characteristics are at least slightly more like the heritage Americans.
Ostei Kozelskii #427014 October 4, 2024 10:51 am 36
The opposite is perhaps more common. Ergo, the parents who immivade AINO are reasonably good citizens, but their children or certainly grandchildren regress to the dysfunctional and antisocial mean.
Greg Nikolic #427024 October 4, 2024 11:05 am -31
Ostei, what about the Italian-Americans who moved away from the Mafia stereotype and became indistinguishable from heritage Americans?They were assimilated into the melting pot. American dominant culture is very strong. Blue jeans, Coca Cola, hip hop music … they get on the brain. Maybe you forget the barrio too.
3g4me #427038 October 4, 2024 11:33 am 39
Blue jeans do not a heritage American make. You are a standard grade fool, pushing the myth of ‘assimilation.’ The Italian immigrants changed America at least as much as it changed them – and even then only those who dispersed around the country and intermarried with other ethnicities. The South Americans are heavily indio and negro, and those genetics are dominant. It would take at least 4 generations of intermarriage with idiot Whites to make a significant change. There are are plenty of Mexican mestizos whose grandchildren are 60-85% ‘white’ who are still Mexican in both appearance and mindset.Go peddle your pabulum and your blog elsewhere.
Greg Nikolic #427039 October 4, 2024 11:38 am -20
If culture is so inflexible, then how can the newcomers possibly adjust to American life at all? If biology is UBER ALLES, then why does Pitbull, a Latin American, sing in a black American vernacular, and Robert Rodriguez, a Mexican American, make movies like Quentin Tarantino? I am skeptical about those who deny the plasticity of the human mind. They seem to be demonstrating that plasticity by their very actions.
Ostei Kozelskii #427046 October 4, 2024 12:01 pm 25
“If biology is UBER ALLES, then why does Pitbull, a Latin American, sing in a black American vernacular” I think I speak for every dissident here when I say this is an extraordinarily perspicuous point and utterly convincing. We’re now all in the open-borders camp. Thanks for opening our eyes.
Compsci #427143 October 5, 2024 3:53 pm 3
Thanks Ostei, and here I was thinking it was simply anon sequitur. 😉
3g4me #427048 October 4, 2024 12:03 pm 30
Mestizos emulating negroes equals magic murkans? What you consider American ‘culture’ is corporate commercialism pushed by non-Whites. And as far as plasticity goes, tell it to all the twin studies, and all the negroes adopted and raised in White middle class homes. Talk about drinking one’s own kool aid . . . .
Bartleby the Scrivner #427089 October 4, 2024 3:11 pm 9
Apparently Greg thinks the commenters here have the mental acuity of a Harris supporter.
3g4me #427090 October 4, 2024 3:46 pm 16
Unfortunately, far too many think just like him – given enough time, all the world’s flotsam and jetsam will become magic murkans. They are actively aiding and abetting thereplacement of their own posterity and the erasure of genetically White European people.
Bartleby the Scrivner #427091 October 4, 2024 3:55 pm 6
So, the enemy within.
Normal English Speaker #427062 October 4, 2024 12:50 pm 5
Robert Rodriguez is 6’2″. Also, look at his mug – he’s most likely of blue blood Spaniard origins.
Tars Tarkas #427068 October 4, 2024 1:23 pm 8
I largely agree with your point. The mind is very plastic. There is evidence for this all around us.However, where I really disagree with you is that it is much easier to make things worse than it to make them better.It is trivially easy to turn a future genius child into a retard, but impossible to turn a retard into a genius. Damaging people is easy. Just starve them. Beat them. Deprive them of any stimulation by putting them in a darkened soundproofed cage. This will mess up anyone. While this is the extreme, there are many lesser versions of this.If biology is UBER ALLES, then why does Pitbull, a Latin American, sing in a black American vernacularHow the hell is this an improvement in the mestizo stock? Or even them becoming more American? Becoming more like blacks is not helping them or changing them into being more American.Reproducing with us over time may very well improve their lot, but look what it does to ours! They get slightly better, our stock gets worse. Keep in mind a lot of these people have Spanish or Portuguese admixture. Didn’t help the Spaniards!
Square Bubble #427158 October 5, 2024 5:36 pm 4
“If culture is so inflexible, then how can the newcomers possibly adjust to American life at all?” American culture ought not to be flexible enough to accommodate the culture of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Haitians etc. So your examples of “good” newcomers are a Latino named Pitbull who sings like a black (rapper?) and a beaner who makes ultra-violent movies like Tarantino? To hell with such mental plasticity.
Alzaebo #427041 October 4, 2024 11:43 am 6
Because the intent of an Italian mafia in America was to become more like the dominant Anglo-Germanic majority, their business pattern was to be completely legitimate by the fourth generation. Note too that the Irish did the same after a rough start.(The Sicilians wanted to leave their kith in a stronger position, so they took shortcuts.)Can the Latinos? Or will they become more Latino, as Latinos, too rapidly, become the dominant majority.I say they still have Reconquista on the mind, and will demand that we accomodate to them. That is, they will take territory, driven as they are by overpopulation and lack, now that the Mayorkases have opened the gate. Aztlan beckons.(I speculate that their deep ancestral kin, the Asians, will be quite compatible. Asians and Latinos are both born with a purplish triangular patch at the bottom of the spine, the tailbone, which fades by the second year. It is a genetic signature, like sloped eyes and heavy, straight black hair, and sparse beards.)Most fortunate are we that the mestizo and european are already heavily linked genetically, linguistically, and culturally, and have proven to be a postively compatible mix. So strong is our Upgrade that even the erectusoid African Semitics and Indian Abos civilize somewhat, over time.Me and a black were lightly arguing which would come out on top in the end. The mexican, listening, interjected, “What about us?”I looked at the black and said, “We’ve exhausted each other in our little war…say hello to the new boss.”
Greg Nikolic #427043 October 4, 2024 11:53 am -17
Alzaebo, you write an intelligent piece and I only hold to my original argument about human brain plasticity. The human mind is a wondrous thing, capable of turning out machines by the million and songs and music. Dominant cultures have a way of eliminating weaker ones. Look at America’s culture: it has spread around the world, supplanting weaker cultures. Are you seriously proposing to me that the Guatemalan or Colombian culture is a match for the institutionalized, techno-propagated American mass giant, with its movies, and television, and music? I think not. I think, in the end, the Reconquista will blur into historical time and America will take a few bits from the “immvaders” and discharge the rest into the stratosphere. Nobody f*cks with America and gets away with it.
Mycale #427047 October 4, 2024 12:02 pm 16
Does watching American slop and putting on blue jeans make one an American? If so, then liberals and conservacucks are right when they say that this country is open to all and borders are mythical.
Compsci #427119 October 5, 2024 11:38 am 3
Your “human plasticity” is so much wishful thinking. Take the Black race and explain them. Hispanic is less well defined.
Steve #427125 October 5, 2024 12:34 pm 2
Yep. Assuming @Greg is using “plasticity” correctly, what most people call “regression to the mean” is a flat-out debunking of cultural plasticity. Personally, I think it’s largely out of laziness with a good measure of rebellion. It’s so much easier to be a violent layabout like your classmates than to strive to better yourself like dad.
Compsci #427144 October 5, 2024 3:55 pm 0
You are correct. My bad. Should not have taken Greg’s (incorrect) definition at face value. Too confusing.
Square Bubble #427159 October 5, 2024 5:47 pm 1
Your prediction, based on the Reconquista fizzling out and leaving but a few souvenirs (Mexican jumping beans? Bullfight posters?) behind, is one of the strangest forms of patriotism I’ve ever encountered.
Vizzini #427042 October 4, 2024 11:44 am 9
They are not a significant percentage primitive, stone age natives, as New World “Hispanics” are.
Ostei Kozelskii #427044 October 4, 2024 11:56 am 22
There is a huge difference between Italians, on the one hand, and Nicaraguans/Gambians, on the other. All cultures are not equal, nor are they equally assimilable.
Greg Nikolic #427052 October 4, 2024 12:15 pm -25
Ah, but Ostei I would argue EVERYONE is assimilable. Everyone with eyes to see and ears to hear is susceptible to the messages of his surroundings. Those messages are constant, purring, dramatic. A culture is not a voluntary thing, it is built into the biology of the human matrix. But culture itself can take infinite forms. Everything from the human sacrifice of the Phoenicians to the prim-mouthed fussiness of the Puritans is allowed on the table of life. The human-sacrificing citizens of Tenochtitlan became the good Catholics of Mexico City. THEY were changed. A more forceful culture simply mind-raped them into submission. America’s dominant culture IS partly blue jeans, and partly Coke, and partly movies, and partly house parties and partly university attendance and prom dances. It’s a billion things, big and small.
Vizzini #427053 October 4, 2024 12:18 pm 25
Your blank slate ideas have failed the test of reality everywhere. Mexico City full of “good Catholics” remains a shithole. Because it’s full of the descendants of Aztecs and their neighbors.
Greg Nikolic #427055 October 4, 2024 12:27 pm -17
Vizzini, the Spanish culture that took over the Aztec one was inferior itself. Look at Spain today: a second-world nation in a first-world Continent. And even in Mexico City, there are desirable neighborhoods.I am not arguing that culture is not persistent. Nor am I suggesting we import millions of hispanics. I am no liberal. Far from it! But to suggest that the human mind is not plastic is absurd. I don’t know if black Africans can ever develop space shuttles or write classical music. But culture can certainly stop them from eating human beings or headhunting each other. Culture can change their behavior in fundamental ways.I think you sorely underestimate the sheer might and power of American culture, and its desirability to foreigners.
Vizzini #427063 October 4, 2024 12:56 pm 23
Yeah, look at the impact American culture had on Afghanistan. Oh, wait … none. Sloughed off like a cheap shirt two minutes after we left off our 20-year-long immiseration of those people in a world of DEI, feminism and George Floyd murals.
Ostei Kozelskii #427066 October 4, 2024 1:16 pm 21
Ha. If Spain were adjacent to Mexico, every Metizo and Indio in that country would be beating down Spain’s door to get in. Spain may not be Switzerland, but it’s a dam’ sight superior to Mexico. And the genetic composition of the populaces of the respective countries is the primary reason why.
Ride-By Shooter #427081 October 4, 2024 2:11 pm -4
XLOVELI,The words mind and brain aren’t synonyms of each other, so mind plasticity is not the same thing as brain plasticity. Different categories.It’s premature moreover to believe that brain plasticity is uniform throughout the brain. The cerebral cortex is arguably the most plastic, and the brain stem, the least. So expect to learn that much of what you’re calling culture finds its neural correlates in the neocortex.Notice however the increasing alienation of Evropean Americans from the changing American culture. Does this suggests that the Evropean brainstem or cerebellum are rejecting American culture? If so, maybe it follows that culture supervenes on the cerebrum in different ways or in some amount which varies from culture’s supervenience on other parts. And that this supervenience varies among breeds of humans. It’s a topic for research, no doubt.It’s quite possible, as well, that the plasticity of the hemispheres is unequal. Their shapes tend not be mirror images of each other, so there’s another hint about possibile inequality of plasticity. Iain McGilchrist has written about hemisphericity, partly to debunk ideas of left-right differences which gained popular acceptance during the past 55 or so yrs. Hemisphericity, he argues, is not what we were led to believe.That ought to straighten out your thinking about plasticity somewhat. So how is Xdeepr Corp. coming along? Is it in motion yet? and cash flow positive?I want to bring you [delicioustacos] to Vancouver to work for me, Xloveli the writer and singer and movie director. I am none of those things now, but I will be. I want you to head up my movie studio or whatever else you want to do. I plan on running a conglomerate of sprawling businesses....Xdeepr Corp. is the name I’ll be giving my business…Xdeepr will reap the profits and form a society of like-minded men. We’ll bring attractive young chicks from around the White World to date and bang. And marry, if you want children to raise on your own.
Whiskey #427056 October 4, 2024 12:31 pm 24
They actually were not changed. In 1790 in the City of Mexico, the statue of Coatlicue was unearthed, and immediately the people started worshipping the statue. The Church immediately confiscated it and put it under guard — it is now in some museum and yes, there are still offerings given to it to this day.Santa Muerte is just the Aztec war/death god Huītzilōpōchtli . The Mayans have their own version, and MS-13 with their face tattoos are pretty much the same as their Mayan Ancestors.You can argue the same with Nordic Christianity. The Puritans were just a Ragnarok obsessed, bunch of Vikings semi-Christianized but not fundamentally changed. They no longer worshiped Odin but they otherwise had the same general views of holiness, how to live, how to govern themselves, etc. [Puritans came from the Danelaw, East Anglia, where the Vikings ruled for about 500 years relatively unchallenged and longer being tolerated].People are who they are. They don’t fundamentally change. You cannot with culture make them smarter, for example. The forms of the religion can be forcibly changed by outside invaders but the innate function does not really change.
Greg Nikolic #427073 October 4, 2024 1:41 pm -13
Whiskey, let’s take the Nordic Christians as an example. You say they didn’t change their general views or how to live. But how did those things develop? They CULTURALLY EVOLVED. The Nordics once believed and behaved differently; over time, they adapted to changing circumstances and made the appropriate revisions to their way of thought/existence.I think a better argument against me is the question of hereditability of IQ. If hispanics are biological retards, comparatively speaking, then no amount of cultural education will improve them. They’re dreck, garbage.But when the Spaniards got to Mexico in 1513, they were amazed and impressed with the Aztec capital. They saw that Tenochititlan was bigger than most European cities, and fed itself on a lake with boats carrying incessant supplies of fruits and vegetables. It was a clean city, and livable, with an emperor. Could it be that the brutalizing effect of Spanish occupation, coupled with the pandemics that swept the land, impoverished the Mexican natives and degraded their culture? I don’t know, maybe they’re crap and we should kill them all. What do you think?
Ostei Kozelskii #427065 October 4, 2024 1:13 pm 24
If every culture is assimilable, how come negroes, despite a century-and-a-half of comprehensive effort and billions of dollars backing that effort, remain a profoundly dysfunctional and unassimilated underclass? Indeed, the pronounced trend right now is for negroes to behave ever more like primitive African savages, and less and less like civilized whites.
Compsci #427122 October 5, 2024 11:46 am 6
Don’t forget, our America Negro, is estimated to be 25% White admixture at that—and we still have such problems with them.
Ostei Kozelskii #427126 October 5, 2024 1:19 pm 3
I’ve heard that the average percentage is between 10 and 15, but that doesn’t refute your point.
Compsci #427145 October 5, 2024 4:01 pm 0
That was my understanding as well, but since I’ve heard a few researchers in the field claiming the higher number. He’s ChatGPT’s verdict on the question—please don’t take this as any support of the legitimacy of Google’s AI product, just saying I did not pull the figure out of my ass: ”In the United States, research on genetic admixture has shown that the African American population generally has a significant proportion of European ancestry. On average, genetic studies indicate that the African American population has between 15% to 25% European ancestry, with considerable variation among individuals.”
Ostei Kozelskii #427155 October 5, 2024 4:55 pm 1
Presumably mulattos are counted in the negro population, and since mulattos are a relatively recent phenomenon, this would account for the increase in the percentage of white genetic material among negroes.
Compsci #427172 October 6, 2024 3:29 pm 1
Never thought of that. Good catch.
Tars Tarkas #427070 October 4, 2024 1:28 pm 10
Move over Magic Dirt, magic Coca-Cola and Magic Blue Jeans are taking over!! If drinking Coke and wearing Blue Jeans makes one an American, who isn’t an American? Coke and Blue Jeans are sold all over the world. Why isn’t EVERYWHERE America?
Compsci #427121 October 5, 2024 11:43 am 2
“Ah, but Ostei I would argue EVERYONE is assimilable.” We see that, but you are wrong.
Ostei Kozelskii #427127 October 5, 2024 1:20 pm 2
Yes, yes. Everyone is educable, too. This guy’s fully in thetabula rasatank, alright.
Lineman #427067 October 4, 2024 1:18 pm 6
IQ limits how much you can assimilate and how much you want too…You can always go lower untill you are in the mud but going up past that limit of your IQ is impossible…
Compsci #427120 October 5, 2024 11:42 am 5
Culture is downstream from biology. This is why they are not assimilable. We are not equivalent genetically, so there should be little reason to assume we are culturally compatible.
Steve #427133 October 5, 2024 1:56 pm -2
“Culture is downstream from biology.” I’d love to see this defended. So far, the best I’ve seen is roughly the same as the regime view of “anthropogenic climate change”…
Compsci #427148 October 5, 2024 4:21 pm 4
This is crude and broad wrt a complex topic, but I’ll give a swing at it.Culture is developed within the framework of race, race from biology and biology from environment. Certain behavioral tendencies follow from biology and Darwinian survival, hence heritable. Here we delve into the “Big Five”.“The Big Five Personality Traits is a widely accepted model used in psychology to describe human personality. These five traits, often referred to by the acronym OCEAN, encompass broad dimensions of personality. Each trait represents a spectrum between two extremes, and individuals fall somewhere along the continuum for each trait.”Some studies claim to have shown differences among the races wrt these traits: Openness,Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism. Yes, there is conflation between culture and biology if we measure such in adults, but younger children have been tested as well.One famous example replicated often is wrt to “time preference”between Black and White children. Each offered one cookie now, or two cookies after a few minutes delay. White children more often delay a few minutes and get the two cookies offered.
Steve #427153 October 5, 2024 4:44 pm 0
OK. I’m still loathe to accept any “sociological” answer as I ever was, so probably never the twain will meet. (Sociology being a soft “science”, granting way too much latitude to the “science” bit.) I get that kids have different time preference, yet I have yet seen any where black kids raised as “white” have been compared to white kids raised as “black”, if that’s even possible. What we have is that black kids raised by blacks with a chip on their shoulders tend to have chips on their shoulders, etc.
Vizzini #427168 October 6, 2024 7:48 am 2
Mulatto kids raised by Whites tend to identify as blacks and have chips on their shoulders: St. Obama chief among them.
Compsci #427173 October 6, 2024 3:40 pm 1
No argument there. But does having a “chip on your shoulder” account for Black on Black violence in their communities? Most violence committed by Blacks is upon their own race. I argue that it’s a propensity for quick and reflexive action (impulsive and not thought through and definitely not specific to the White race) which is a heritable behavior precisely because such was beneficial to survival and reproduction in Africa. Hence, I say culture (violent proclivity) is downstream from biology. The question is one of amount of heritability and contribution, which is still under debate.
Apex Predator #427074 October 4, 2024 1:44 pm 23
This is such a brainlet tier take I do not even know where to begin especially since everyone else already corrected you numerous ways.1) What is different between Italians assimilating last century and the brown goblins flooding the zone today? Last century you were taught “you are AMERICAN now, drop your old ways”. And they did.This century you are taught America is the worst most racist place on earth, so YOUR culture is superior. Keep it, and terraform America into a goblina brown slurry genetic shithole like the place you came from. More clear now brainlet?2) Italians and Irish, at the end of the day are Europeans. They vastly differ from 85IQ squatemalans, goblinas, la creaturas and every other mestizo descended mud race? More clear now brainlet?3) American “culture” is not fucking coca-cola and blue jeans. I know your general age but your entire take on this topic makes you sound like a boomer tier normie in a very unflattering way. I suggest you pipe down now… American “culture” today is the absolute worship of negroes as gods. Second to that all other swarthy races, sexual deviants, and wahmen in that order. What time machine did you just step out of where “Coca-cola and Blue Jeans” is still a thing? Just stop…Lastly, your ‘hot take’ on Spain speaks of someone that hasn’t been anywhere and gets all their info from the internet. Spain is light years ahead of Mexico in nearly every possible way including the ability to WALK in the cities without being murdered unlike even US cities. Europe’s cities, in general, absolutely bury US cities and simply avalanche any cities ‘south of the border’.Pay attention to what others say for once instead of sh-tting up the board with your uninformed hot takes, be a learner, not a sophist. A very timely lesson given today’s topic…
Lineman #427078 October 4, 2024 2:06 pm 5
Applause to that Brother… Very well said…
Ostei Kozelskii #427088 October 4, 2024 2:57 pm 6
Heh. One thing about AP–he doesn’t mince words.
terranigma #427164 October 5, 2024 7:10 pm 7
Greg, you have taken a false statistical abstraction to make a false generalization to suit your delusional foolishness. The others have answered you well and properly, particularly Apex Predator, but Mexico is a good case study worth going further with.Cortez conquered what would become Mexico City in 1521. It became a Spanish colony subject to good Catholic missions at the time. Today, Mexico has a habit of murdering more American citizens than all other nations combined. It is rife with corruption, bribery, extortion from the average police officer to the heights of public office. The cartels string up dismembered corpses to remind Mexicans who is really in charge of what areas. Its main exports are drugs, human trafficking and Dia de Muertos, so death. International car factories do not count.500 years and ~25 generations later, Mexico still worships death. It is a spiritual mutt stuck between two parents. To make Mexico an actual “good Catholic nation”, it would need to be conquered again, the cartels exterminated to the last man, the culture purified through new missions to the good Catholic way against the world condemnation of genociding Latino culture, and then maybe in another 200 years, Mexico might be a good Catholic nation. At least 700 years, two full conquests, two cultural genocides to make death worshipers into good Catholics. Maybe.Cultural assimilation. Biological evolution. Spiritual enlightenment. Whatever you want to call it, it is not quick. It is not easy. It is not natural. It is not bloodless.And the shallow, corporatized hedonism that passes for GAE culture has no hope of ever doing it.
Normal English Speaker #427058 October 4, 2024 12:39 pm -17
AINO stands for… ummm… “schmucks who thinks abbreviations make them sound more intelligent”, right?
Compsci #427123 October 5, 2024 11:51 am 6
What’s your problem with an abbreviation for a lengthy term used frequently in a close knit group? If you don’t understand it, politely ask. I’m sure someone will respond—politely.
Steve #427138 October 5, 2024 3:05 pm 1
America in Name Only. But, yeah, what@Compscisaid, don’t be a dink. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened, ask and it shall be given” and all that.
Normal English Speaker #427059 October 4, 2024 12:42 pm -9
there was Sailer’s post confirming your point with typical for SS stats sleuthing
Steve #427142 October 5, 2024 3:51 pm 2
I thought you were the one opposed to unusual abbreviations. SS=Social Security? I don’t think that even makes sense…
LineInTheSand #427114 October 5, 2024 11:10 am 5
Greg, I acknowledge your willingness to voice an unpopular opinion, which is not easy for most, and your civility. If a sufficient number of whites wanted a place to preserve their whiteness and exclude non-whites, would you consider that immoral?
Compsci #427118 October 5, 2024 11:34 am 1
Greg, this is where you might be mistaken. Your tacit assumption is that behavior—as in violent aggressive behavior—is cultural in nature. This may be true in part, but behavior is also genetically inherited. Cross cultural studies across different continents, but same races seem to indicate such. The search I admit for genetics involved still remains unsettled, but that only a matter of time and numbers.
Steve #427146 October 5, 2024 4:02 pm 0
“behavior is also genetically inherited…” Is it? I’ve been asking for evidence of this well before I encountered Zman, but so far, it’s just assertion. I’ve obviously seen the “regression to the mean” stuff, which I think is probably mis-attributed, but the whole, IKAGO position makes plain it’s not simply genetic.
Ostei Kozelskii #427157 October 5, 2024 4:59 pm 1
Actually, it does not. There are always outliers, but outliers do not vitiate the validity of easily discerned and factually documented group characteristics.
Steve #427160 October 5, 2024 5:47 pm 0
Wait, what part are you disputing? Are you asserting that pretty much EVERY first generation Nigerian is an outlier? Or that his and her genetics do not carry forward? We do ourselves no serivice to claim things that are easily factually contradicted.
Ostei Kozelskii #427161 October 5, 2024 5:55 pm 2
Nigerians who come to AINO are, by their very nature, the topmost cream of Nigeria’s cognitive crop. They are thus outliers by Nigerian standards, and within one or two generations their lineages will regress to the Nigerian mean.
Steve #427162 October 5, 2024 5:59 pm 0
Exactly! So if the first gen are genetic outliers and genetics are determinative, why aren’t their kids also genetic outliers? They got the right genes, right?
Ostei Kozelskii #427226 October 7, 2024 10:25 am 0
It’s not that simple. If my dad’s IQ was 140 and my mom’s IQ was 130, that does not mean my IQ will be 135. Parental genetics set parameters–it’s highly unlikely that the child of cretins will be a towering genius–but are not specifically determinative. In vitro and environmental factors in early childhood also play roles. And what’s more, I strongly suspect the Nigerians’ children will marry American nuggras, which will begin the downward descent of intelligence. Moreover, they will readily absorb AINO’s negro supremacy and anti-white racism, with all the dysfunction and harm that entails. We don’t want these people, and we dam’ sure don’t need them.
Compsci #427174 October 6, 2024 3:49 pm 0
Not sure where to place this comment, but it is for many just made. Regression to the mean is a first generation, one shot event. A cancellation, if you will, of error within the two mating partners. A new baseline is produced, not necessarily the same as the general population of the parents’ stock however.
Tired Citizen #427124 October 5, 2024 11:59 am 6
If any part of what you say is true, Greg, then how do you explain the negro problem? Generations of preferences, advantages, unaccountability, free stuff and head starts with everything have done absolutely nothing. They are worse now than they’ve ever been. Maybe, just maybe their genetic makeup and under-developed frontal lobe leads to low impulse control and the inability to delay gratification. Their propensity for violence is caused by lineage of low iq.
Wolf Barney #426981 October 4, 2024 8:40 am 32
To add to Jordan Peterson becoming flummoxed on stage, the audience member asked him about Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s book “200 Years Together”, which is a criticism of the J’s. Peterson is a huge Solzhenitsyn fan, but given the subject of the book, after a period of silence, walking back and forth on stage, and some hemming and hawing, he finally announced, “I can’t do it.”
Hi-ya #426985 October 4, 2024 9:15 am 5
In an email exchange I had with joseph Pearce the racist turned antiracist, he wrote this: When asked who should be considered a Russian, Solzhenitsyn responded “anyone who feels Russian”. Now I don’t know if Solzhenitsyn really said that but it’s funny
Hemid #426992 October 4, 2024 9:47 am -18
That doesn’t sound likeSolzhenitsyn, but it is the kind of thing a prominent Russian would say. (A normal one wouldn’t.)A reason Russia was chosen for revolution/conquest was because the pre-Soviet empire was multicultural, a proto-globohomo. Putin’s imperial vision isthat, a nation- and people-erasing dominion that isn’t so gay, ugly, and stupid. Claims that he wants to restore the USSR are sort of right. He’s boomer nostalgist “old left,” Eastern division.He definitely confuses our guys. He’d gulag us all for being racists. His enemies list is 80% identical to Nuland’s. “Our” hostility baffles him. /our/ support disgusts him. Solzhenitsyn would see us and “us” both more clearly. He definitely wouldn’t give that quotenow.
thezman #426997 October 4, 2024 10:01 am 25
You cannot understand Russia or the Russian leadership through the liberal lens, which is why you have so many things wrong here.
Ostei Kozelskii #427017 October 4, 2024 10:56 am 12
Not merely so many things wrong, but absolutely nothing right.
Paintersforms #427037 October 4, 2024 11:32 am 2
Russia straddles East and West. It’ll never quite be one or the other because of that. Friendly relations are possible and desirable, but stable, close relations are probably impossible. There will always be some antagonism.
Greg Nikolic #427075 October 4, 2024 1:46 pm -9
There’s no question that Russia WANTS to be European. Russia would not mind being part of NATO and a member of the European Union. Russia’s “Eastern” part was a colonization effort to push across the Asian vastness, not an intrinsic feature of the Russian homeland.
Normal English Speaker #427064 October 4, 2024 1:11 pm 1
One cannot speak about Russia/Russians today without taking into account severalmassivewaves of culling of the best genetic material from the population – Revolution, Civil War, Gulag, WWII, 3-4 (depending on who counts) emigration waves of anybody with upward mobility. All of that in a span of a handful of generations.
Lakelander #427072 October 4, 2024 1:32 pm 18
I don’t buy the takes about Russia being a multicultural proto-globohomo, at least through the liberal lens as Z mentions. Russia spans 11 time zones from Europe to Asia so yes they are going to contain many different ethnic and cultural groups. The West’s version of multiculturalism is mashing as many disparate groups of people together to foster some impossible dream of equality. Russia is a federation, all their disparate groups have their own oblasts (Chechens have Chechnya, Buryats have Buryatia, ect) in which they are given sovereignty as long as they aren’t causing problems for the Federation as a whole. Russia has a much more realistic system to deal with their multiculturalism, which is a result of their globe spanning geography, as opposed to the US where it is a result of their malice towards White Americans.
Ostei Kozelskii #427083 October 4, 2024 2:13 pm 11
There isde factomulticulti and ideological multiculti. The former, which is what exists in Russia, simply accepts that there are different cultural groups under the same political umbrella, and that practical measures be undertaken to ensure that the various groups get along as well as possible.The latter, which reigns supreme in AINO, the anglosphere and most of Europe, argues that all cultures are equal and that all should share equally in power, wealth and culture, as well as historical valuation. Effectively, this means demoting white culture and artifically elavating non-white cultures. It also entails radical redistribution of wealth and cultural-historical esteem. This process naturally creates enmity and pits various groups against one another. Most importantly, it seeks to enrage PoC and use them as an army to conquer and subjugates whites.
Lineman #427084 October 4, 2024 2:22 pm 7
Most important question will Whites fight back, when will they, and will it be in time to save them..
LineInTheSand #427086 October 4, 2024 2:27 pm 2
Lots of downvotes. What was so wrong with what Hemid wrote? It sounds pretty accurate to me. I’m not sure how multicultural pre-revolution Russia was percentage-wise, but there was certainly a sufficient number of those who wanted to take control of the Russian people from the monarchy. Many of their leaders were not traditional Russians. (I assume the “he” in the third paragraph is Peterson.)
N.S. Palmer #426989 October 4, 2024 9:27 am 19
To avoid being double-secret cancelled, a lot of public figures tiptoe very carefully around certain subjects. Scott Adams, for example, argues that the problem with DIE is that it limits the candidate pool, inevitably excluding more-qualified candidates. For decades, that has been the standard libertarian argument against racial discrimination. It’s valid but it prudently avoids noticing the elephant in the living room.
Ostei Kozelskii #427020 October 4, 2024 10:58 am 8
Yep.Tout court, one could discriminate against negroes and harm the applicant pool fractionally at most. And there might be social benefits to doing so that would outstrip any minute harm.
thezman #426991 October 4, 2024 9:46 am 14
I find the whole thing baffling. He is a showman and he is a gifted rhetorician. These questions should be simple for him, but for close to a decade he has been haunted by an inability to address the topic coherently.
Greg Nikolic #426996 October 4, 2024 9:56 am 9
Maybe they should be simple but the weight of culture is a crushing one. The West can be almost Japanese in its suppression of awkward facts.
Bonobo Mindset #427004 October 4, 2024 10:31 am 6
He’s a public figure and has something to lose. Musk is a perfect example. The regime could shut down SpaceX and Starlink with the stroke of pen and play games with his shares and probably even personal money. Imagine if Trump approached the BQ or JQ. Whoa, Nellie.
Wiffle #427008 October 4, 2024 10:43 am 11
I have found myself warning entertainment YouTubers not to play around with the JQ in their comments sections. These people are not culture warriors, just normal people with something big to lose if they even play at the edges of it. To see them get wiped out for no immediate gain just seems foolish. The cracks are forming and the West will have deal at some point. There will be a someday, it’s just not today.
Wiffle #427012 October 4, 2024 10:48 am 3
The West is amazing at suppressing facts that we can’t handle. We’re still number one in this area. Go us! *ahem*
Wiffle #427010 October 4, 2024 10:45 am 2
You’d think he’d have at least a pat answer ready by now.
N.S. Palmer #427022 October 4, 2024 11:01 am 5
I think you’ve identified the answer. Scott is a rhetorician, and his goal is persuasion. If you “go there” with a forbidden belief, your listeners’ minds immediately shut down and you can’t persuade them of anything. Scott gets away with being noticing-adjacent but doesn’t want to cross the line.
Ostei Kozelskii #427023 October 4, 2024 11:02 am 7
Perhaps his soul is genuinely ripped asunder by the truth. I was that way not so very long ago. But once I evacuated the sorrow of group inequality from God’s purview, the truth was cleansed and rendered palatable.
Wiffle #427029 October 4, 2024 11:09 am 14
Western society carefully trains everyone to have a base emotional reaction to the JQ. They are strong emotions that bypass logical thinking entirely. They are sorts of exile/shame/disgust reactions previously reserved for single mothers, homosexuals and the like.Nobody knows why the Jews are supposedly helpless victims for all of history. They don’t know why observing even the mildest of criticism of them as Jews makes one clearly bent on mass murder. They just know that everyone accepts it as true. Therefore it is true and the shaming/exile emotions kick in.It takes time and deliberate will to undo the sort of emotions that the West simply takes for granted about the Jewish people. It will take the death of generations, although I have some hope for Gen Z and Gen Alpha on that regard.
Ostei Kozelskii #427049 October 4, 2024 12:04 pm 6
This applies equally, if nota fortiori, to negroes.
Lucius Sulla #427131 October 5, 2024 1:50 pm 1
I’ve been lightly trying to reframe the Old Testament / Torah for people to hopefully open some eyes. Here’s an example:Recall how the Israelites usurped power in Egypt, eventually killing a bunch of Egyptian babies and making off with all the wealth of Egypt, to then seek out their next victim, the people of Palestine, who they slaughtered wholesale because they wouldn’t get off their “promised land”.And somehow they spun this into a victim narrative. They are very good at that.Exodus 12:35-36:The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. The Lord had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians.
Steve #427139 October 5, 2024 3:10 pm 0
Meh.If you believe the story, it wasn’t the Israelites doing it, but rather God, who is assumed in Christian circles to be perfect; perfect mercy, perfect justice, etc. No problem if you don’t want to be Christian (I’m not, though I consider myself a follower of Christ) but this line of argument doesn’t convince anyone but the low-information types.
Bilejones #427150 October 5, 2024 4:30 pm 2
Here’s the Kol Nidre, the Prayer (or not) with which their most sacred Holiday, Yom Kippur, commences.“All vows, and prohibitions, and oaths, and consecrations, andkonameiandkinuseiand synonymous terms,[5]that we may vow, or swear, or consecrate, or prohibit upon ourselves, •from the previous Day of Atonement until this Day of Atonement and …• ♦from this Day of Atonement until the [next] Day of Atonement that will come for our benefit.♦ Regarding all of them, we repudiate them. All of them are undone, abandoned, cancelled, null and void, not in force, and not in effect. Our vows are no longer vows, and our prohibitions are no longer prohibitions, and our oaths are no longer oaths.”Here is The Jewish Question: How can these people be anything other than massively destructive to the High Trust Societies of the West?
Steve #427154 October 5, 2024 4:50 pm -2
OK, so how does that differ from the other low-trust cultures? We have commies poking holes in the hull. Why not start with throwing the commies overboard and THEN start using coffee cups to bail out everything below-decks? Maybe we can’t agree to stop the water from flowing in, but how about at least opposing new holes in the hull?
N.S. Palmer #426987 October 4, 2024 9:19 am 29
Immivaders don’t like the citizens of their host countries, and the citizens don’t like them, either. But there they are: “Animals have a special hostility toward other members of their species who are non-kin and therefore genetic competitors. A lot of human behavior simply puts a thin intellectual varnish on top of these biological reactions to ‘explain’ why they are the way they are.”
red October #426998 October 4, 2024 10:21 am 16
While feeding the magpies this AM, I noticed that they do not invite the hawks or the sparrows to join in??
Wolf Barney #427005 October 4, 2024 10:32 am 15
Even Muhammed Ali was a noticer: “Bluebirds fly with bluebirds, redbirds wanna be with redbirds, pigeons wanna be with pigeons…..”
Ostei Kozelskii #427016 October 4, 2024 10:54 am 16
“What white man is gonna want his kids to have kinky hair?!”–Ali’s animadversion of miscegenation
Lineman #427082 October 4, 2024 2:12 pm 9
Yes the negros get rather upset when you start feeding the mexicants because they understand that they will soon be outnumbered and pushed aside…I wish White People would just stop feeding anyone not their own and before the knuckleheads come out and say well who is White if you look White, Act White, and Fight for White then You are White…
TomA #427000 October 4, 2024 10:23 am 27
In my professional life, I was largely surrounded by high IQ white guys in jobs that required you to be a realist. Luckily, physics, math, and material science is boring as hell to most folks and societal sophistry was as rare as hen’s teeth. And when it did find its way into the room, it was usually met with blank stares of incredulity. Unbeknownst to the offender, they were silently categorized as a system defect. And our job was to eliminate such defects because if failure occurred, important things broke or innocent people died. This principle applies broadly.
Compsci #427011 October 4, 2024 10:48 am 22
One of the better words of advice I’ve ever received was from my major professor when I was a graduate student: “If you are the smartest guy in the room, you’re in the wrong room!” It was my great fortune later in career to not be in such rooms.
Lineman #427069 October 4, 2024 1:27 pm 8
I would disagree with that statement in that how is anyone supposed to learn if the smarter guys don’t want to be in the room with them…You should always have multiple rooms that you are mingling in so you get to learn and to teach…IMHO…
Compsci #427108 October 5, 2024 10:31 am 5
I took his advice to be translated as, ‘you can’t learn from people dumber than yourself, therefore avoid them and find the smart people to learn from…’ I never considered that the smarter guys would not wish to be in the same room as me. So there is that. I suppose there is a balance somewhere. In any event, one then must say I’ve been blessed to have the tutorage of brighter minds than myself in my career.
Steve #427134 October 5, 2024 2:02 pm 0
Agreed. You need to be the best you can be. You owe that to yourself, your wife and your progeny, at the very least. If the Bs want to learn from you, they have to make the effort. Not that you can’t offer yourself to that task, but if you dedicate your life to Bs, you will fail to achieve your potential A-dom.
Bilejones #427152 October 5, 2024 4:42 pm 3
Everybody has multiple rooms filled with dumb guys, they’re called In-Laws.
TomA #427079 October 4, 2024 2:09 pm 12
Where I worked, the imperative was to solve the problem, not compare egos. And anyone stupid enough to flaunt their IQ was mercilessly ridiculed. Now that is sublime irony.
Steve #427140 October 5, 2024 3:12 pm 0
Fair. Solving the problem IS evidence of superior IQ. Anyone who doesn’t get that isn’t even a B.
Zulu Juliet #427027 October 4, 2024 11:07 am 19
Even my non-political wife figured out why Finland has a low murder rate. This is a good trend. She was also able to cogently rant about how hold folks can’t afford their taxes that are being raised to purchase housing for immigrants. Also very good, but I wish she wouldn’t explain it all to me at 2a.m. being unable to sleep, angry about it all.
Jeffrey Zoar #427054 October 4, 2024 12:25 pm 8
If she were political, she’d probably be less likely to be able to see it, since in the course of being political in current year AINO, one has to pretend not to know lots of things.
joey jünger #426988 October 4, 2024 9:20 am 18
Progressivism (called communism or liberalism or wokeism by your normie cousin) is a completely insane lie. Either that, or it’s a form of kayfabe for people who know better but don’t care (this is the bourgeois Bobo who watches MSNBC because it’s their version of wrestling.) To be fair, lots of religions are objectively insane, and wrestling is diverting in a low theater way, if you’re into that.Worse than progressivism (communism, liberalism, wokeism) is mainstream conservatism. This is much more pernicious because it not only claims to offer an alternative when it doesn’t, but offers a solution, usually for a price and a subscription. Included in this category is everything from Sky News to post-Tucker Fox News and your Dark Enlightenment grifters and self-worshippers like Moldbug. It’s a half-truth—dealing honestly sometimes with things like COVID, transgender madness, even illegal immigration. But again, it uses these to bait a trap, and always refuses to deal with these things in a way that can offer a true solution and a way out. That makes this much worse than blue-haired crazy HuffPo nonsense, which smells from a mile away. And at least the progs put Al Sharpton on MSNBC and Fetterman in the senate to let you know they’re trolls, and they think it’s all a joke, and you don’t have to waste time with it unless you want to. And since they’ve welcomed neocons (and even Dick Cheney!) back into the fold, the smell of sulfur is strong enough to let you know where they are from a mile away and it’s easy to avoid.It’s the normiecon crap that pisses me off, as it’s a time and money suck for people who should be on our side. The other day I visited with a normie cousin of mine. He’s mostly apolitical and lazy but senses things have gone disastrously wrong in America and is genuinely curious, receptive, and most important of all, pissed. And then he proceeded to show me an interview with Brett Weinstein on YouTube in which Weinstein informed the audience Kamala is secretly very intelligent and playing 4d chess. He then proceeded to go into some tangent about seeing a street performer in Vietnam who’d been mangled and tortured by the Vietcong and then began to cry. It was histrionic and inauthentic, and disgusting. I didn’t want to alienate or offend my cousin, so I sat politely and listened with him to the whole thing, but it was agony. There’s just something so insufferable about slightly heterodox people convinced of their brilliant bad boy cred who bar actual solutions by claiming they have some kind of solution. And like Sam Francis’s “beautiful losers,” the solution always involves taking the high road and letting the Left destroy you while you get to keep your principles.If we keep trying to keep our principles, though, we’re going to lose our lives.
Lineman #427071 October 4, 2024 1:31 pm 6
Amen on that…If anyone has a solution other than we need a White Homeland again I would gladly listen to it…Of course it has to be feasible and not rely on Magic or Hope…
Gespenst #427163 October 5, 2024 7:05 pm 1
How would you construct a white homeland? After constructing it, how could you keep it white?
Sluf #426978 October 4, 2024 8:13 am 17
It’s gotta be the reindeer. All those reindeer in Finland help keep the peace. They’re better than magic dirt!
red October #426999 October 4, 2024 10:22 am 0
real DEI would be forcing all of us to wear magical underpants..
Ostei Kozelskii #427025 October 4, 2024 11:05 am 10
Actually, it’s the presence of Midnight Ski Jump Ramps in Finland’s underprivileged neighborhoods that give at-risk youth a purpose in life and something positive to occupy their time…
Tars Tarkas #427032 October 4, 2024 11:22 am 15
We are absolutely awash in sophistry. Most of our “public conversations” are little more than sophistry. The whole purpose of modern “news” is not to inform, but to convince you of something. Just look at the coverage of Israel/ Hezbollah, Iran and Hamas. Everything Israel does is good and right and everything the other guys do is evil and terrorism. Even Iran defending itself becomes an unjustified act of terrorism. Everything is framed in such a way that “we” are always the good guys.
Xman #427095 October 4, 2024 4:16 pm 6
Sophistry has been the central problem in political philosophy since Plato. Plato’s dialogues represent the battle between Socrates and true philosophy, and various sophists, orators, poets and other mythmakers.Plato’s solution to the problem was essentially education: the guardian class in the “just republic” would be comprised of both men and women literally bred and trained to selflessly seek the truth using the Socratic Method, and would be given total power.Of course, as Aristotle argued, human Nature prevented this from happening, and prevented the communism of men and women within the guardian class that Plato proposed. Not only was it almost impossible to identify people suitable for membership in the guardian class, but humans were always likely to seek self-interest over objective truth. Then Christianity came along and argued that The Fall made justice in this world impossible.Modernity purported to solve this problem with the Scientific Method: sophistry (and mythology) could be disproved by empiricism and by the objective testing of hypotheses. The math and the numbers would not lie, and could be easily verified by any number of people. This enabled the West to literally conquer and revolutionize the world in the 19th century.However, the postmodern West finds itself in a bizarre situation: it has so thoroughly transformed society that it has made it safe for sophistry once again. The great irony of our age is that the people who most claim the authority of “science” are the people who adhere to unexamined sophistry and mythology — i.e. that gender is “fluid,” that race does not exist, that a fetus is not human, that homosexuality is normal, that men and women are equal, that electric cars will save us from “climate change.”This has got to come to an unhappy end someday…
red October #427147 October 5, 2024 4:11 pm 6
Sorts off topic but I’ll throw it out there anyway-Is all encompassing altruism a white construct? I occasionally see it in other races but when I look at the list of PBS contributors I never see any middle Eastern names, nor any Black folk or Dot Indian surnames. Same for cancer research wings, museums, great public libraries etc. Where is the Rastus museum of fine art, and why isn’t there an Abdulillah section 8 housing project?
Alzaebo #427015 October 4, 2024 10:53 am 6
I’ll take a brief stab at it before listening or checking the links, as this is a think-piece that needs to be digested: Sophistry, here, is the right wing version of post-modernism.One must cloak the origin and intent of one’s thrust with a lot of bafflegab. Too late, do ones like JP realize they’ve swallowed a nice-sounding draught of a poisoned chalice. The philosophical concepts themselves were were a dark mirror caricature from a foreign mind, and too late do the Petersons realize they’ve signed up with the wrong team.
Alzaebo #427026 October 4, 2024 11:07 am -2
For some reason, this sample seems to resonate, but I’m not sure why: There can be no Revolution without Women’s LiberationThere can be no Women’s Liberation without Revolution
Xman #427103 October 4, 2024 10:00 pm 5
Since Z spends a fair amount of the podcast discussing Strauss and whether Strauss was pro- or anti- sophist, and discusses his seeming ambiguity, I’d like to weigh in on that topic a bit.Strauss understood that the fundamental problem for the political philosopher (or any philosopher, really) is that he was going to end up contradicting the cave-myths, (which are are, essentially, politics and religion).As Socrates says in the discussion of the cave inThe Republic, if the philosopher escapes the chains of the cave, goes out into the sunlight and sees reality, and were to re-enter the cave and contradict the shadow-myths, not only would the cave denizens disbelieve him, they’d try to kill him.This of course foreshadows the trial and execution of Socrates himself.In other words, a philosopher can be 100% right — and he can get himself killed for it. If he is “dead right,” what good does he do? The truth can only be useful if it can be introduced to the cave denizens and the mythmakers in such a way that it is palatable and can start the process of slowly questioning revising the myths to be closer to the truth.Strauss’s teaching on utilizing esoteric and exoteric language strategically seems to be his answer to this problem. The philosopher must be deliberately vague enough so that his teaching does not spook the power structure into killing him, and also clever enough to get his point across to other clever people who can start slowly undermining the false cave-myths. Strauss’s teaching on Machiavelli is very important on this point. Is Machiavelliflatteringthe Prince, orcriticizinghim when he writes “It is better to be feared than loved?” The Prince himself will think that being feared is good and that Machiavelli is praising him… the average man-in-the-street might contemptuously snort “Yeah, right. That Prince reallyisan asshole, isn’t he?” (Think of the sarcastic humor used to criticize the regime in the USSR).If Strauss himself seems vague, perhaps that is deliberate… what is not ambiguous about Strauss’s teaching is that he encouraged us to go back and re-examine the Ancients, to re-read Plato, and to re-commit to the Socratic Method. Doing that in a high-minded academic sense would not get him thrown in jail or thrown out of the university, or executed in any regime… but it might prompt others to start asking the right questions.Now, of course, Strauss may have been wrong about that. The two figures in Western history most responsible for prompting a re-evaluation of the social cave myths were Socrates and Christ — and in both instances it was their deaths, not their survival as honored academics, that prompted a “revaluation of values.”Perhaps it is simply impossible to promulgate the truth without becoming a martyr for it.
thezman #427104 October 5, 2024 5:31 am 5
I must confess that my negative view of Strauss is primarily due to his most famous students. The neocons and Jaffa-ites both seem to come away from Strauss thinking his arguments regarding the use of esoteric language was license to promote and proliferate monstrous narratives.
Xman #427136 October 5, 2024 2:13 pm 1
Yes. And it’s a problem that plagued Socrates himself… the Athenians developed a negative opinion of him due in part to his association with people like Alcibiades.
thezman #427137 October 5, 2024 2:18 pm 0
Plato did Socrates no favors in the Symposium.
Greg Nikolic #426990 October 4, 2024 9:28 am 4
Jordan Peterson is a brand in a world of competing brands. The name of the game is to get your name out there. Sites like Zman’s achieve slow, organic growth, whereas visual clips on YouTube expand virally in rapid motion. Jordan has quit his job at one of Toronto’s universities so that he can better manage his media explosion. In this he is like another YouTube product, Justin Bieber, who was discovered on YouTube by superagent Scooter.Anyone who seeks to employ solely text is wielding a rusty sword. Look at movies. In the 1930s and 1940s films were dialogue-heavy and plot-driven. By the time of the age of Michael Bay, it’s all eye candy with a grunt here or there. The written word becomes an exotic, soon-to-be extinct bird.Maybe the answer is a marriage of text and video. Kind of like a cyberbook with moving pictures. If that’s the case, the future background of all political sites will look like Star Wars Episode 3 where the chancellor is bound in a steel chair and star fighters are laser-dueling behind him.— Greg (my blog:http://www.dark.sport.blog)
Mycale #427080 October 4, 2024 2:10 pm 5
Also, it needs to be said, Jordan Peterson is insane. Vox Day was on top of this before anyone. I remember getting into arguments with people after the whole cider thing – where he claimed he didn’t sleep for a month after he had a glass of cider – and said nobody should be taking advice from this guy, on anything. The counter was, well, clean your room or whatever is good advice. Okay, but do you need a crazy person to tell you to clean your room?So, it’s really not just about being a brand, but there is a vetting process, a gatekeeping process, that involves who knows what but look at the people it lets through. We are starting to learn what bieber went through after he was plucked by Scooter Braun. Taylor Swift was plucked by the same guy. Etc.
Compsci #427111 October 5, 2024 10:39 am 3
JP is anything, but insane. Why is it so human in nature to decry our betters. Anyone following JP knows he is a sharp guy who has stood up to the Leftist establishment and been punished for it more than most. JP is also human and made any number of life mistakes—taking “Bennies“ for one. That he may have a weird idea now and then, is nothing out of the ordinary for influential figures. The stress he’s endured would break most men. If JP is insane, name someone influential as JP who is not insane?
Steve #427135 October 5, 2024 2:05 pm 2
Right. And if anyone screams, “Damaged mental goods!”, it’s Vox.
Bonobo Mindset #426986 October 4, 2024 9:19 am 4
‘Smart and stick together’ and ‘can they function in Western society without creating problems for it’ are different questions. One is ‘how’ and the other is ‘ok, then what’.
thezman #426995 October 4, 2024 9:51 am 15
I thought I made that clear. The “Q” of the “JQ” is not why Jews have done so well in America. That has been answered. I often recommend the book The Jewish Century for this reason. It pretty much covers the that topic. The “Q” that remains unanswered is if having an unassimilated minority in positions of power is workable. I am old enough to remember when Jewish intellectuals debated this exact question, but that was long ago in a foreign land.That said, I doubt it remains a question for much longer. Diaspora demographics will make the question moot in a generation or two. Fifty years from now when Americans think of Jews the image that will come to mind is those ultra-orthodox enclaves everyone politely ignores.
Tarl Cabot #427001 October 4, 2024 10:24 am 12
Respectfully, I disagree. People have been writing off the Jews since the Merneptah Stele. Fewer numbers only concentrates their power. They cracked the code. The key is nepotistic control of the institutions. Fewer Rothschilds only means greater influence for those that remain.
thezman #427013 October 4, 2024 10:49 am 13
Maybe. I do not think Jews will disappear. I think the diaspora will whither in both relative numbers and in influence. The main reason is Jews are getting dumber at a much faster rate the rest of the population. They are facing a collapse in general IQ.
Wiffle #427031 October 4, 2024 11:17 am 6
“They are facing a collapse in general IQ.”Yes, ironically it’s in part because the Jews drank their own kool-aid first. Many of the mulattos that people see in the news are the children of a Jewish mixed couple. It seems became fashionable even, rather than just a way to make Dad upset before settling down to a real marriage.Hollywood is an easy place to see it. There’s Amandla Steinberg, who I had to keep reminding myself was half black because I listened to podcasts, rather than keep seeing her face. There’s Rachel Ziegler. I’m guessing Pedro Pascal is also half Jewish. If there someone of a clearly mixed race, who can maybe pass for white in the right lighting, clothes, and make up, and appears to have no talent what so ever, it will be a half Jewish child. Also if they appear to be getting roles for no reason at all.
thezman #427035 October 4, 2024 11:25 am 13
There is also the basic math of the Breeder’s equation. If I 120 population starts mating with the 100 population, the result will be some figure below 120. Mate with the 85 IQ population and the results are catastrophic.
Dr. Dre #427101 October 4, 2024 7:53 pm 4
In my experience growing up in a famous NYC suburb, late 50s early 60s high school grad, there were lots of smart Js in my class of under 100, but there were also some real dummies who cared more about their sports cars than they did about getting into Northwestern. Later in life I noticed how the guys could not resist the cute Waspy blondes who did not need nose jobs. Later, watching my kids in their private school, 90s grads, filled with J kids, I was really not impressed with their output. I agree that IQs for all elite offspring are dropping. I think it has to do with the lack of pressure on recent generations to “prove” their worth. Everyone is “elite” these days!
Compsci #427112 October 5, 2024 10:45 am 3
”Everyone is “elite” these days!” Bingo! Assortive mating via college dating breaks down when over half the attendees are of average IQ. This of course will take a few generations to detect, but the theory is sound.
Gespenst #427165 October 5, 2024 7:11 pm 0
The selection pressures that helped the Jewish population reproduce high intelligence are now gone, so the group average intelligence will decline.
Templar #427175 October 6, 2024 4:20 pm 0
Later in life I noticed how the guys could not resist the cute Waspy blondes who did not need nose jobs. Jews as a whole, not just the less academically-inclined, seem to be particularly fixated on blondes, though. And blonde women apparently have a small but non-negligible advantage in IQ over other women.
Horace #427036 October 4, 2024 11:32 am 8
“I think the diaspora will whither in both relative numbers and in influence.”I agree with this assessment, given the assumption that there is no replenishment. However, if there is diasporic replenishment it will be in FUSA …I wonder if Netanyahu is deliberately pushing a ‘go long or go home’ scenario, given the context of the impending destruction of the International-Jew colonial state of Ukraine. That is to say, he is attempting a radical change of the demographic landscape surrounding the current borders of Israel in the full knowledge of poor Jewish demographic projections inside Israel, knowing that in the not unlikely event it fails, Israel will become inviable and with Ukraine no longer available most will flee to the (formerly) United States.Both factions of the International Jews (communist and corporatist), between them, own our Congress. Israelis WILL be let in no matter what Americans think, and with their numbers doubled and too many Americans brainwashed into mindless obeisance, Jews will be in an excellent position to carve out a new country in North America after the dissolution of the current American Empire, complete with useful white slaves every bit as stupid and obedient as Ukrainians. I hope this does not come to pass, because our descendants will have a better chance at a decent life under the rule of Mexican drug cartels than under these people.
Whiskey #427060 October 4, 2024 12:42 pm 4
Jews are being pushed out of power by the diverse. There are only so many Harvard and Yale student positions available, same with Penn. That’s why the Penn student leader against Jews was a Filipina, the daughter of some TV billionaire in the Philippines, her mother some big shot lawyer there. Not Muslim, and not concerned really with events in Gaza (not her people). Just pushing out rivals.Dudes like Bill Ackman, Jamie Dimon, Ray Dalio, and others can see this happening. Today, Harvard. Tomorrow, them.The “gutter religion” of Diversity makes holy sacred non-White people the arbiters of everything, and they can see they have been defined by those who decide (non-Whites) as indeed, White. Which is the worst thing anyone can be.I don’t disagree about the out-marrying and declining IQ as a result, but I think the desire by the holy sacred Diverse to take the power, positions, and influence of Jews will be decisive in the next few years.
Lakelander #427085 October 4, 2024 2:27 pm 7
I can attest to this with a real example:Patriarch born in the 1920’s, starts finance company with brother which expands and then they buy a bank. Brilliant man with a net worth in the 8 figures. Patriarch has 3 Children in the 50’s/early 60’s; son 1 becomes a lawyer, son 2 gets into banking and eventually gets placed as high ranking executive in Patriarch’s new bank venture. daughter 1 becomes a liberal activist. Children start having their own children in the 90’s/early 00’s. Son 1 has 2 children who work random, lowly jobs as they are trust fund babies. Son 2 has no progeny. Daughter 1 has 2 children who work random, lowly jobs as they are trust fund babies. None of the kids are even involved in any way with the family business, let alone serious studies in college. In 3 generations, the dynasty will have been created and dissolved. It is truly remarkable.
Steve #427003 October 4, 2024 10:28 am 8
“The “Q” that remains unanswered is if having an unassimilated minority in positions of power is workable.” Or maybe whether having positions with that much power is even a good idea. The last few years have made it pretty plain that no one can be trusted with it.
Bonobo Mindset #427018 October 4, 2024 10:57 am 3
South Asians fit that example. Still, the other group has a long, long history of exhibiting outright hostility to its host populations, with frequent reprisals and then eternal grudges that escalate over the millennia.
Wiffle #427021 October 4, 2024 11:00 am 9
Somebody has to be in charge of all societies, whether we like it or not. We can know their name and address and ethnicity. *Or* we can live as we do now, run by an olicharacy who when not Jewish ethnics, is run as a Jewish society.Our American rash to authority, which the 20th century made much worse, only leads to rule by the equivalent of Voldemort. We can not not even name them.
Wiffle #427033 October 4, 2024 11:22 am 3
Further musings: The AmericanRepublic died in 1861, a victim of scale and a Western lawyer with dreams of empire. We are run as olicharachy by anonymous committee, which is why we’re allowed to vote at all. It does not matter.We can accept a flawed ruling class as having God’s OK to rule over us. That ruling class will all be sinners, but if we’re lucky they may care about the people. OR we can pretend we run ourselves and still get ruled over anyway. Except as now, we don’t know their names or faces.
Steve #427092 October 4, 2024 3:56 pm 3
Why must someone be in charge? I’m mostly not talking big picture stuff. Why must someone be telling us to mask up or get jabbed or buy an EV or how far apart the outlets in our kitchens may be if we remodel, or how many gallons per flush from our toilets or how much sulfur is allowable in diesel? And on and on. Biden already says no more help for NC. Why do we need these Voldemorts, again?
Ostei Kozelskii #427028 October 4, 2024 11:09 am 15
More specifically, when many corporations have more wealth and power than many countries, you’ve got a real problem. Even more so when those corporations are so enmeshed with fedgov that they are wholly unaccountable for their actions.
Steve #427093 October 4, 2024 3:57 pm -2
Corporations have power BECAUSE of government.
Ostei Kozelskii #427098 October 4, 2024 4:39 pm 2
Well, let’s just say fedgov hasn’t exactly stood in the way of the mighty combinations.
Steve #427102 October 4, 2024 8:40 pm 3
It’s not just that. Corporations are a legal fiction, a creation of government. It’s in the word. To make corporeal. To form into a body. In at least some states, the act of filing the paperwork with the Secretary of State is considered breathing life into the body. The corporate form would not exist if government didn’t make up “laws” to enable it, and arrange the legal codes to protect it and give it preferential treatment.
Steve #427141 October 5, 2024 3:33 pm 3
To extend a bit, the gist of incorporation is that you hold the “person” created out of thin air to “embody” the group that is the corporation responsible for most misdeeds that group commits. Yes, exceed a certain limit and the officers or principals get in trouble, c.f., Enron, but most misdeeds are a fine only. The “person” who “embodies” the corporation cannot ever die, being a figment of ones imagination. So they are completely immune to death tax, which often destroys non-incorporated entities. Since “by their fruits ye shall know them”, any product of the State is likely evil.
Wiffle #427019 October 4, 2024 10:57 am 2
“Diaspora demographics will make the question moot in a generation or two.” It appears that mulatto Jews, of which there is a surprising number, are not fully on board with Jewish interests,. “Look Who is Coming to Dinner” apparently was just a movie about Jews post WWII. Given what I see in Hollywood, the mulattos will gladly take the benefits of Jewish privilege. Then they will be mediocre in in their personal efforts and actively side with their other heritage on any question pertaining to preserving Jewish privilege.
Ostei Kozelskii #427050 October 4, 2024 12:10 pm 7
Jewishness, rightly or wrongly, retains the taint of whiteness in the Western world. It is only logical then, that Jewlattos renounce their Jewishness and flee pell-mell into the dusky camp. They know which way the wind blows.
Compsci #427113 October 5, 2024 11:01 am 1
If by diaspora Jews, we mean those who marry outside the religion and cease to practice, then that’s not—or was not—a problem centuries ago. It was a feature of burning off the worst of the tribe. It was the secret to the group obtaining/developing their higher IQ and ethnocentrism. No different than dog breeders perfecting their particular sub-species. This behavior was unfortunately reinforced through societal discrimination and ghettoization, until the 1800’s. Then the prohibitions lapsed in the West and a plague was released.Today, “out breeding” is perhaps the Jews worst enemy, unless you are of an ultra orthodox sect. Who by the way, are growing and expanding both here and in Israel. They self select via their complete strangeness to all other cultures in their dress, mannerisms, and intense shunning of any that stray from the fold.
Hi-ya #426982 October 4, 2024 8:58 am 3
What initially comes to mind about sophists is they were place/people/culture specific. They were cultural relativists. What’s good for Athens may not be good for Thebes .i guess it depends on the issue.they also were kind of a necessary transition from a philosophy that was so lofty and abstract to what they the sophists, were promoting , which was a overly down to earth philosophy of what’s good for me now where I am.in a way our side is kinda doing that, and I’m not criticizing. Liberal democracy is a political philosophy which is suppose to apply to purple haired costal women and purple fingered Iraqis cause we are all one race etc.so in a way, we may need to be sophists. They seemed to play to win not for an trans civilization outlook where you make sure your children drink the hemlock before you do
Paintersforms #426984 October 4, 2024 9:09 am 2
Things are clearer at the margins, positions are easier to argue. You get a dialectic. Left/right, woman/man, sophist/philosopher, practical/abstract. Imo, the best position is somewhere in the murky middle. Finding the middle by letting the extremes duke it out is retarded. It’s learning strictly by failing.
Mr. House #426994 October 4, 2024 9:50 am 5
“It’s learning strictly by failing.” Yes but if you want to have a large number of human beings, that is the only way that a large number of them can learn. They can’t visualize a few steps after a decision is made. That is why arguing with them is pointless. Hence they must step on the rake and have it smack them in the face.
Compsci #427007 October 4, 2024 10:40 am 2
“Hence they must step on the rake and have it smack them in the face.” What is wrong with that? Other than perhaps inefficiency?
Mr. House #427051 October 4, 2024 12:15 pm 5
“What is wrong with that? Other than perhaps inefficiency?” Because its society wide, like someone in a river who is too close to the waterfall to escape the pull, they’re going to take all of us with them.
Paintersforms #427040 October 4, 2024 11:41 am 4
There’s this discredited thing called eugenics. Quality over quantity. Now we rely solely on education to improve the masses, which doesn’t work, so we manage the masses while pretending it does. Even Plato understood this. If we actually let people fail, it might have a eugenic effect. Playing God is evil, handing out Darwin awards is evil, but the race to the lowest common denominator is good 🤷‍♂️
Mr. House #427057 October 4, 2024 12:36 pm 3
I’m not arguing that some people shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce. I’m arguing that we’ve been protecting incompentent people for far to long and that they’ve reached a critical mass where we are all going to have to pay for their stupidity.
Lineman #427076 October 4, 2024 2:00 pm 1
Yea probably get some down votes from this but are we any better…I would agree we are smarter than them but we don’t see the need to come together and separate from the stupid we are just letting ourselves be swept by the stupid over the waterfall instead and all the while yelling your killing us all…
Mr. House #427087 October 4, 2024 2:44 pm 0
I see more in a christian light, we’re still trying to save them from themselves by continuing to explain and discuss. It gets old testament when it is seen to be pointless. “forgive them father, they know not what they do”
Paintersforms #427077 October 4, 2024 2:01 pm 0
Ok, I’m talking about how I think we got here, because I think we’re locked in to what you’re talking about. Small is beautiful.
Compsci #427116 October 5, 2024 11:19 am 1
Gregory Clark’s research, as presented in “The Son Also Rises” and his earlier book “A Farewell to Alms”, produced strong evidence that, if lessor ability individuals are left to their own devices, they will be out bred by greater ability individuals.This finding explains the reason for the rise of society such that the Industrial Revolution occurred at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 19th century. In short, an explanation of the power of eugenics in shaping today’s society.Conversely it also provides an understanding of why we are getting dumber in the 20th and 21st centuries as the IR begot the Welfare State which prevented strict/harsh Darwinian Selection among humans. Without a replacement for DS, we will be destined to revert to medieval ability among the populace.As far as who will “be allowed” to reproduce, it will mean little if the phenomenon of the best and brightest continue to refrain from reproduction in a post IR bountiful society.
Paintersforms #427130 October 5, 2024 1:37 pm 4
We’re effectively practicing dysgenics. The intro to Idiocracy. That even leaves out subsidies and wealth redistribution!
Paintersforms #427129 October 5, 2024 1:33 pm 1
Hope I’m getting this right, iirc a sophist was someone who was wise, and a philosopher was someone who loved wisdom. Always found that funny. Why didn’t the philosophers love the sophists? I know, too cute, they had different notions of wisdom, which is also kind of funny. Arguing over the meaning of a word, when you get down to it. Later on, you get Sophia. Now this wisdom thing is feminine. Everybody wants a piece of the action. Just sayin’, just sayin’!
Bartleby the Scrivner #427107 October 5, 2024 10:23 am 1
I commented on it yesterday. Go to BCE to read about an incident that included a PHEMA honcho, who was getting off on denying a mother and her kids water and food. Allegedly, local gentlemen took exception and corrected the indiduals behavior. Don’t know if it’s legit, but it’s needed. And a good read.
Ploppy #427094 October 4, 2024 4:13 pm 1
I would absolutely love a promo code for a meat bucket.
Tarl Cabot #427061 October 4, 2024 12:50 pm 1
In the ancient world, Sophistry had a somewhat positive connotation, at least before Socrates. The Sophists were the original post-modernists, pointing out the inconsistencies in all postulates (anticipating Gödel, in a way), and then congratulating themselves on their own cleverness. It was left to Socrates (through Plato) to point out that knowledge cannot advance in face of such juvenile obstructionism.A good modern example would be the dweeb who Fuentes debated the other night. He reminds me of Chris Matthews. He talks fast, talks over people, sets up hypothetical traps, and then immediately pivots when he gets caught out. An insufferable little prick.Of course, it was Andrew Tate who shut him down: “No chicks at the table”. Hysterical.Regarding Fuentes (and I say this through slightly gritted teeth), he is the next Rush Limbaugh, in that the man and the medium are perfectly aligned. He is smart, funny and a master of the format.Also (teeth even more gritted), women love him, in the same way the love charismatic priests and queers (yeah, I know) who are similarly unattainable.I now why Musk lets him continue, despite keeping others with essentially the same views banned.Fuentes is just that good.
Krustykurmudgeon #427100 October 4, 2024 5:14 pm 0
Any of you guys see “am I a racist”? I did. I feel that Walsh needed to attack the higher hanging fruit.
Moran ya Simba #427034 October 4, 2024 11:24 am 0
A food bucket is something you buy to await TEOTWAWKI. A meat bucket is something you date, and possibly marry if you’re silly enough 😆
Greg Nikolic #426980 October 4, 2024 8:32 am -1
It is always delicate to dance around certain awkward questions. But to watch the dance from the sidelines can be ….interesting.What are the sidelines of political debate in North America? As the hiding places of unpopular thought, they are found in marginalized locales. The South. Appalachia. The Rust Belt. And those in California who cannot afford to buy a home. Driven to despair by life’s circumstances, they put aside rose-colored 🌹 glasses in order to see clearly through the murk, their questions unanswered by the media and the political elite. These sidelines fester like open wounds, breeding the pestilence of Truth which cannot touch the germ-free suburbs and exurbs.It is in the largely white suburbs that the battlegrounds of the future will be drawn. When there is no escaping political questions, issues get resolved quickly anddecisively.— Greg (my blog:http://www.dark.sport.blog)


Back to top