Revisionism

Tucker Carlson recently hosted a man calling himself Darryl Cooper to discuss a range of things, including alternative narratives of the Second World War. Cooper also calls himself MartyrMade online and hosts the The MartyrMade Podcast. He specializes in historical revisionism and the history of items that get little attention, like Jim Jones and the People’s Temple in the 1970’s.

The great and the good are in a panic, because Cooper, while on the Tucker Carlson show, suggested that Churchill was not the hero the official narrative claims, but more likely the villain of the story. Since the show aired there has been a steady stream of toadies and lickspittles pointing and shrieking at both Tucker and Cooper. By now everyone knows the drill.

As someone pointed out in response to one of the pointers and shriekers, the official narrative around the Second World War is closer to a religion than history. It is tangled up in the founding myths of the United States. It is part of the larger narrative that forms the identity of the American ruling class. To question any part of this narrative is to question the moral legitimacy of the ruling elite.

As an aside, Cooper is not breaking new ground regarding Churchill. Pat Buchanan wrote a book titled, Churchill, Hitler And The Unnecessary War, which sought to break the “cult of Churchill” that had come to dominate the American elite. The same people freaking out now over Cooper, freaked out of Buchanan, so the freakout works as confirmation of both men’s central claim.

The thing is though, the Second Word War is just one part of a larger narrative that makes up the great American myth of existence. The twentieth century saw a rewriting of American history to recast the founding, the war between the states and the emergence of the Global American Empire in the context of a great mission for which the American people have been tasked.

That is the show this week. It is not a comprehensive thesis on revising the American story, but more of a starting point for looking at the key events that make up the myth of the American founding and the myth of American purpose. After all, if a key item like the story of WW2 is fake, then it is reasonable to assume the story around other key events of the myth are fake as well.


For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation via crypto. You can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 1047 Berkeley Springs, WV 25411-3047. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks. Thank you for your support!


This Week’s Show

Contents

  • Introduction
  • Darryl Cooper On Tucker
  • Revisionism
  • Slavery Books
  • Civil War As perfecting The Revolution
  • Was It A Revolution?
  • Was It A Civil War?
  • The Ongoing Revolution

Direct Download, The iTunes, iHeart Radio, RSS Feed

Full Show On Spreaker

Full Show On Rumble



Full Show On Odysee



To keep Z Man's voice alive for future generations, we’ve archived his writings from the original site at thezman.com. We’ve edited out ancillary links, advertisements, and donation requests to focus on his written content.

Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

306 Comments

honky tonk hero #422797 September 6, 2024 7:47 am 75
“It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?” – Norm Macdonald.
Ostei Kozelskii #422850 September 6, 2024 10:25 am 33
Even more striking, the good guys were always waging war on racism, sexism and homophobia…
RealityRules #422964 September 6, 2024 2:18 pm 12
Even more conveniently, every time the bad guys won and folks were sent packing, it was never ever ever the good folks fault. It says so right here in this history the good folks wrote.
Barney Rubble #423060 September 7, 2024 6:52 am 18
Hitler was evil and Churchill was the West’s savior. My sources? The History Channel, Victor Davis Hanson, and Liz Cheney. Also, “Hogan’s Heroes.”
Felix Krull #422786 September 6, 2024 6:54 am 61
The Western Allies liberated plenty of concentration camps, though not a single death camp. Initially, a lot of the camps in the Western sector were believed to be death camps because of all the dead bodies, but after Eisenhower ordered coroners to perform autopsies on the bodies they found, it was concluded that nobody had been gassed and that the overwhelming majority had died of typhus, diphtheria and malnutrition.So after all the Western camps had been examined, the “death camps” left were all in the Soviet Sector, where no Western coroner was allowed. It’s still illegal according to “Jewish law” to perform any kind of forensic examinations of the Polish “death camps”One of the most impressive thing about the Tucker-interview was how they managed to get through it without mentioning David Irving, the domineering grandfather of the new, edgy counter-Churchill interpretation of WWII. Irving is the ultimate cheat sheet for modern WWII historians, because he’s a virtual gold mine and you’re allowed to plagiarize and steal from him with impunity.A movie like Der Untergang is entirely based on Irving’s work; Irving was the guy who meticulously detailed what happened in the bunker hour-by-hour.
Felix Krull #422789 September 6, 2024 7:07 am 28
Hitler’s war is, by the way, copyright free. As in you can legally download and read it. It is entirely Denial-free as well, and because Irving never had tenure, his livelihood depended on making his books entertaining and engaging, so it’s a page-turner. https://libmises.eu5.org/books/hitler.pdf
Felix Krull #422791 September 6, 2024 7:19 am 16
The same goes, apropos, for Churchill’s War, which Tucker’s guest is essentially paraphrasing. Alas, Irving has only finished two volumes, and it doesn’t seem like we’ll see a third in his lifetime. https://almanaquemilitar.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Irving-David-Churchills-War-1-Struggle-For-Power-01.pdf
Ride-By Shooter #422796 September 6, 2024 7:44 am 16
Hitler’s Waris truly a page turner and far more insightful than schlock such asThe Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which was written by an American journalist. (Fyi, both authors can or could read and speak German.)Irving wrote also a book in the 1960’s about the holocaust at Dresden. I don’t recall the title, which I believe was changed for a revised edition. The original edition is mentioned with Irving’s name on the copyright page of my copy ofSlaughterhouse-Five. This other book was written by a socialist who survived the great firebombing of Dresden, to which he was taken by the Germans after his capture. He lived in a slaughterhouse for some of his time there.
Arshad Ali #422838 September 6, 2024 10:02 am 6
“The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” Shirer’s book is garbage, hastily written by a callow journalist.
Compsci #423078 September 7, 2024 12:16 pm -2
Ali, with respect, your posting is what I decry here in the commentary. This book by Shirer is recognized as the seminal work on the subject of WWII. I remember reading it as a young boy. It is still read today as a complete and understandable overview on the subject. Shirer himself was there during the NAZI regime. His book was a best seller, received numerous awards, and so forth.You attack his work without a single supporting reason as to why Shirer is in error, or a citation as to support for you assertion.
Slothrops Dream #423243 September 9, 2024 1:33 pm 0
Look in the index of Shirer’s ‘Rise & Fall.” No H word. Just a few sentences about Auschwitz as a labor camp. Weird, huh?
Felix Krull #422919 September 6, 2024 12:36 pm 3
The editions are called The Destruction of Dresden, respectively Apocalypse 1945. And don’t expect to find much in the way of eye-witness descriptions in Slaughterhouse, alas, it’s about five pages altogether. A great read if you like acid age sci-fi but it’s not about Dresden. (And not up there with The Sirens of Titan.)
pyrrhus #422872 September 6, 2024 11:15 am 18
Churchill almost single handedly destroyed Britain in two completely unnecessary wars…Britain had no reason to enter WW1, and the Kaiser even. offered not to invade the low countries if Britain stayed out…Same for WW2…
Pozymandias #423005 September 6, 2024 5:47 pm 13
Personally, I hated Churchill before it was cool. I started to think ill of him when I read about his genius plan to make a beach landing at Gallipoli when the Ottoman guns could reach the beach but the attackers’ fire would fall short ofOttomanpositions. Later on, I learned about his general arrogance, bullheadedness and boozing.
Jack Dobson #422890 September 6, 2024 11:42 am 8
Thanks for that! Over here we have the right, but not the ability, to purchase HITLER’S WAR, to paraphrase some forgotten comedian. I am skimming it now and had forgotten how funny some of the details are such as the Polish diplomat’s fear that Polish Jews would be repatriated from Austria to there post-annexation. This HAD to be suppressed as much as possible.
Steve #422945 September 6, 2024 1:31 pm 6
“Over here we have the right, but not the ability, to purchase HITLER’S WAR, to paraphrase some forgotten comedian.” One such was Ron White, about the right to remain silent.
Felix Krull #422985 September 6, 2024 3:16 pm 2
That’s pretty good, actually.
Lineman #422917 September 6, 2024 12:31 pm 9
Thank you Good Sir for the link…It’s enlightening though reading through the comments and being able to tell who is (((who))) and who is one of us…
Citizen of a Silly Country #422925 September 6, 2024 12:52 pm 7
Yep, there are a lot of downvotes on quite obviously true comments.
Lineman #422965 September 6, 2024 2:20 pm 0
Yea it would definitely be a fun discussion to actually analyze the why of why someone chooses to downvote someone…Is it just a disagreement with what was said, was it because they just don’t like the person from previous interactions so now no matter what that person said it’s an automatic downvote, or maybe the comment was on a person they are fond of so even if it’s true they will downvote it, or just subversives out doing what they do…Who knows really…
Compsci #423009 September 6, 2024 6:08 pm 1
Everyone has their own system I guess. I hardly ever downvote—even when I vehemently disagree. If you make a thoughtful and serious comment, I consider it a fair posting. If I agree with you wholeheartedly, you get an upvote. Everyone else gets a quick read and bypassed.
Steve #423019 September 6, 2024 7:07 pm -2
Yep. Only difference is I never downvote without offering an explanation. If something deserves a downvote but someone already offered the same explanation, I skip the whole downvote thing and nod my head.
DaBears #423053 September 7, 2024 1:46 am 2
If I vote it’s accidental because I’m screwing around with the controls for one of my Japanese toilets and struck my screen by mistake. Wups.
Hi-ya #423041 September 6, 2024 9:01 pm 0
Yowzer, Ty, brah
Citizen of a Silly Country #422803 September 6, 2024 8:08 am 46
The mythology surrounding WWII is the foundation of the modern West’s morality – and it’s based on lies. But those lies will crumble as the Boomer generation goes to that big disco in the sky. Young whites either don’t care or if they do, view WWII with the same emotion that they view Caesar’s Gaul campaign. They’re much more open to re-examining that period. And, of course, Asians don’t care at all.
Felix Krull #422807 September 6, 2024 8:21 am 30
They’re much more open to re-examining that period. Yes. And it’s happening right as we speak, with veteran Holocaust Deniers helping the young’uns speedrun their revisionist journey. We’re so back.
Citizen of a Silly Country #422813 September 6, 2024 8:25 am 39
My daughter mentioned wanting to visit the Holocaust museum in DC. I said fine, but just remember that it’s just propaganda. She seemed a touch surprised but then asked why. It was no more emotional than me telling her that a reality show had manipulated a scene.
Felix Krull #422817 September 6, 2024 8:37 am 30
My two nephews (13 and 15) think it’s funny to throw Romans. They know nothing about Hitler or any of that stuff, they just know it freaks out their teachers.
Wolf Barney #422829 September 6, 2024 9:44 am 20
The forbiddenness of throwing romans and N-words with the hard R makes it great fun. It’s fun being naughty.
OrangeFrog #422837 September 6, 2024 10:01 am 25
It is. We used to do it in German class when ‘answering’ a question. At one point, we even got a bit of duct tape to make ourselves little toothbrush moustaches. Mark you, our German teacher was a Turk, so perhaps she thought it funny too. In those days, we just got told to stop be stupid. Nowadays, it’ll front page news on the Guardian.
Ostei Kozelskii #422848 September 6, 2024 10:23 am 21
Not only front-page news, but you’d be tossed in an imperial dungeon. And that’s no joke.
Wiffle #422877 September 6, 2024 11:27 am 2
This period will pass. It’s just a matter of getting people to not poke the bear while the sycophants are in charge.
Felix Krull #422968 September 6, 2024 2:26 pm 12
In the early eighties, I was out hiking with the boy scouts, and our leaders told us to knock it off with the heil Hitler-bullshit. For the rest of the hike, every time a car passed us, we’d spot some interesting bird or tree and point at it with our outstretched hands, marvelling at the beauty of Mother Nature. Thinking back, I’m surprised they didn’t just drown us all in the ditch.
Nick Noltes Mugshot #422975 September 6, 2024 2:41 pm 5
What is that thing you call boy scouts? What about girls and LGTBQ youths? What kind of primitive society did you grow up in?
Xman #423022 September 6, 2024 7:11 pm 6
FYI it’s now called “Scouting USA,” and they admit girls and queers.
Ostei Kozelskii #423068 September 7, 2024 10:03 am 5
When the Boy Scouts capitulated to the lunatic Left on the matter of girls and faggots, I knew the jig was up for America.
Dutchboy #422994 September 6, 2024 4:30 pm 7
One of my liberal college profs compared the Boy Scouts to the Hitler Youth.
Ostei Kozelskii #422998 September 6, 2024 4:57 pm 12
How original of him. :rolleyes:
Wiffle #422873 September 6, 2024 11:18 am 38
The McHolocaust chain museums are all set pieces from movies. Real shoes don’t last that long, etc, etc. If you want rattle a mainstream conservative in one question, especially if they are from the South, ask why there is a Holocaust museum right off the national mall, but nothing in downtown DC that honors the dead of the War Between the States.There is no finer demonstration of who actually runs the US.
Jack Dobson #422913 September 6, 2024 12:24 pm 21
There actually was a Reconciliation Monument in Arlington dedicated to the Civil War dead. The negrified and totally dysfunctional, pardon the redundancy, military removed it recently.
Wiffle #422915 September 6, 2024 12:29 pm 8
Arlington, while very close, is not the National Mall. And now even that one’s gone.
Lineman #422921 September 6, 2024 12:38 pm 14
It’s ironic though that their mask is being pulled down and showing who they really are and wanting us too know who is ruling over us right at the same time everything is going to shit…Makes me laugh even though I know it’s going to be painful…
Citizen of a Silly Country #422927 September 6, 2024 12:55 pm 23
There really has been a remarkable change in the past couple of years both in terms of people being willing and able to talk about Jewish influence (control really) and Jews just getting sick of pretending to not be in charge. Changing times and demographics are hitting at once.
Lineman #422920 September 6, 2024 12:36 pm 22
Product of her environment Brother…My kids ask me why there are so many books on the holohaux at our library and very few on the great depression even though the great depression affected Americans far more…
Evil Sandmich #422820 September 6, 2024 8:56 am 30
as the Boomer generation goes to that big disco in the sky That’s a big piece of this. The people for whom WWII was a key religious tenet are having a harder time pushing back on it’s criticism because there aren’t enough of them to do so anymore (or are too old to care). It’s easy for people younger than them to look around and figure the wrong team won the war.
Tars Tarkas #422870 September 6, 2024 11:12 am 19
“And, of course, Asians don’t care at all.”I would agree they don’t care about the holocaust, but to say they don’t care about WW2 is wrong. The Chinese and to a lesser extent, the Koreans care deeply about WW2 and in some ways, like Jews, live in the past. Hating Japanese is a sport in China, at least as far as I can tell. I hear it is very common for school children to put on plays about fighting Japanese. Bayoneting straw soldiers wearing Japanese uniforms is also a fun pastime in China. Just a couple of months ago some Chinese guy tried to kill a bus full of Japanese children (though, to be fair, a Chinese woman died protecting them). The North Koreans probably hate Japan even more than they hate South Korea.Granted, this is just stuff I’ve heard. I don’t speak, read or write any Asian languages. It’s just what I hear on the internet. Though I have read history of the war in Asia and it was ungodly brutal.
Wiffle #422874 September 6, 2024 11:20 am 13
Yes, the hatred of particularly Japan apparently run deeps in her neighbors. The 20th century was brutal globally.
Jack Dobson #422914 September 6, 2024 12:27 pm 12
It is absolutely true, and even worse in the Philippines and some of the Micronesian and Melanesian island chains, and there is no need to embellish the Japanese atrocities because they were in fact as bad as billed. When Japanese tourists started to visit these places in full in the Eighties, violent assaults on them were common.
Citizen of a Silly Country #422929 September 6, 2024 12:56 pm 8
Yes, I meant the European theater and the Jewish Holocaust story.
Steve #422955 September 6, 2024 1:42 pm 7
Truth. I had no idea how strongly until probably 30 years ago when the town I lived near held some WWII festival (50th VE Day, I think) and a bunch of Koreans showed up. Most of them were Chicago-accented, so probably had been in the States a long time. But boy, oh, boy did the shrieking start when the topic switched to Pacific theatre. One would have thought he was at a nog block party.
Steve #423011 September 6, 2024 6:37 pm 10
I have attended the Mid-Atlantic WW II show for the last few years. One thing I’ve noticed over the last two years is the amount of young people flocking to the German re-enactors and purchasing German stuff, asking the re-enactors questions and the like.
fakeemail #423010 September 6, 2024 6:28 pm 8
Hank Hill watching footage of ungodly brutal Asian wars: “So are they Chinese or Japanese?”
Wiffle #422876 September 6, 2024 11:26 am 11
“Young whites either don’t care or if they do, view WWII with the same emotion that they view Caesar’s Gaul campaign. “No matter how universal the lies at some point all wars with a cultural impact have an expiration date. Only if a war matters on the home front to a cohesive nation will it get remembered without the power of the state, beyond it’s generational expiration dates. Examples: War Between the States in the South and for most of British commonwealth WWI, with Armistice day/poppies remembrance.Boomers love them some WWII, because it makes their Dads and Uncles heroes. They also benefited directly from the world that sprang up after that war. To my kids, all of that is gone. They never met my grandparents. It’s yet another page in the history book, with films in black and white. Personally, living on the wilds of the internet, if I never hear a reference again to WWII Germany, it will be too soon.
Vegetius #422986 September 6, 2024 3:25 pm 4
But… But…My betters are of the opinion that if we just post crime stats and IQ graphs just a little harder we can achieve an ethnic renaissance without ever having to question the ethical system imposed upon us by the fellow whites…Meanwhile out in reality it’s 2024, the year the youngest boomers turn 60. The 21st century is a quarter over. Racist libertarianism from 1995 is not going to cut it, nor will the notion that there can be a separation under, or which maintains, the present moral dispensation.All this is obvious. It is also why I maintain that you are only as good as what you are doing today. The fact that you might have done or said something brave decades ago or been an influence on someone saying something brave today is irrelevant. Struggle has no place for sentimentalism.It’s long since time a metaphorical Night of the Young(er) Knives purged the deadwood. My own insignicance goes without saying, but I expect the same when I have become an old fool.
OrangeFrog #422834 September 6, 2024 9:58 am 21
Kudos to you, Felix, for mentioning Irving: a man who seems to be loathed outwardly by many a historian, but is quoted and referenced all over the place. In front of me, I have in my hand Ian Kershaw’s work on Hitler… no surprise to see Irving all over the place.
Jack Dobson #422881 September 6, 2024 11:31 am 5
Can you even purchase a copy of HITLER’S WAR in Old Blighty, though? Over here, despite our much vaunted First Amendment, it is largely inaccessible.
OrangeFrog #422902 September 6, 2024 12:00 pm 6
Interesting, Jack. A couple years back I was definitely reading reviews on Amazon for it. A quick search reveals it is indeed for sale from multiple second hand sellers, and even through Amazon itself. Irving’s life itself is as fascinating as his history books – he has been subjected to bizarre (and evil) treatment by many EU countries.
Jack Dobson #422911 September 6, 2024 12:19 pm 4
The lowest price available Stateside on Amazon right now, if I’m reading it correctly, is $180 USD for a hardcover. It doesn’t appear to be signed, either. As far as the demonization, check his Wikipedia bio. The spooks who wrote that dreck owe the copyright holder of “Holocaust denial” a fortune. If that account is any way reflective of any reality, Irving is quite ill now, it is sad to learn.
Tars Tarkas #422972 September 6, 2024 2:40 pm 5
I don’t know whether it was coerced or not, but I heard Irving say, at least 10 years ago, probably longer, that he believes the holocaust official narrative, more or less. He said there were some minor disagreements with the “Official Truth,” but that it happened mostly how they said it happened. Though he did say there is not a single shred of documentary evidence that Hitler ordered it or knew about it.
Felix Krull #422977 September 6, 2024 2:47 pm 11
That’s true. Two years in an Austrian prison taught him the error of his thinking. He’s a modern Galileo.
Xman #423025 September 6, 2024 7:20 pm 13
The revisionist argument has never been that Jews didn’t die on the Eastern Front. Of course they did. TheEinsatzgruppenshot hundreds of thousands as Soviet partisans.What has been questioned is a) the number of Jews that were deliberately killed vs. incidental war deaths (e.g. typhus) and b) whether the camps were “death camps” with gas chambers, or labor camps where a lot of people died from things like typhus and starvation as the Germans began losing the war.If you define the “Holocaust” as the belief that Germany killed some Jews on the Eastern Front, then yes, it happened. If you define “Holocaust” as “six million Jews were gassed by Germany in purpose-built camps that existed solely as part of a grand and deliberate scheme directly ordered by Hitler to kill them all,” that may be partly or wholly exaggerated.
Tars Tarkas #423042 September 6, 2024 9:04 pm 17
Please don’t mistake me for someone who cares. Seriously, I could not care less how many Jews died or what their cause of death was. Those deaths are as meaningful to me as the death of Indians in the 1700s or of Genghis Khan’s victims. I am not happy or sad about their deaths. I just literally could not care less.OTOH, I absolutely resent the presence of holocaust museums in America. That’s how they thank us for rescuing their dumb asses, at great expense in both blood and treasure, by shouting “never again” at our children. It wasn’t done by or to us. Not our problem. There have also never been any pogroms in America. In the future, when we win, all the holocaust museums will be turned into “why we should never allow foreigners into our country” museums.
Steve #423084 September 7, 2024 4:07 pm 4
Oh, but it is our fault. In the city that I used to work in, they put a holocaust museum right on the property of the county government main office building. One of my coworkers remarked one day why any holocaust museums were on US soil to begin with, to which a jewish coworker said, “Because everyone must be reminded of what was done to our people.” The other woman said, “We don’t have memorials to our Civil War in other countries, the holocaust happened in Europe, so why so you need one here? We had nothing to do with it.” Which I thought was awfully brave of her to say so. The jewish coworker responded, “You did. FDR knew, everyone knew what was going on and your government did nothing.”I was studying Kung Fu at the time and my Sifu (teacher) and a classmate were both jewish. I ran this past them and both were incredulous. My Sifu, normally unflappable, asked me, “Did this coworker say where he discovered this “information”? He made airfinger quotes while doing this and I told him I didn’t ask. The other guy Geoff just shook his head and said, “You could probably make the argument that Churchill had an idea of what was going on, but FDR? Even if it were true, I agree, why are there memorials on government property?”
Pozymandias #423092 September 7, 2024 5:42 pm 7
I propose we also create a new holiday (or maybe several) called Deportation Day. It’s when we celebrate the first (of hopefully many) mass deportations. Kids can make a game out of it. You take turns being the dirty, shiftless foreigner, and then the heroic Border Agent charged with rounding up the scoundrels and herding them into the boats. Everyone makes colorful “get the hell out” signs and banners and sings songs about how happy they are to have their country back.
Felix Krull #423052 September 7, 2024 1:09 am 5
That is a very succinct summation of the revisionist argument. To itemize:1) It was less than six million2) There were no gas chambers3) There was no centralized, premeditated plan to exterminate Jews4) Hitler didn’t knowIf you want to get into denialism, I suggest you start with the gas chamber in Auschwitz, since that’s by far the easiest to argue and because The Big A. has such a marquee value for the Holocaust – if THAT is fake, why should we believe in all the other stuff?1) There was a gas chamber in Auschwitz used for fumigating clothes and furniture with Zyklon B. This is uncontroversial among both deniers and orthodoxians, – scholars usually call it The Small Gas Chamber and nobody every claimed it was used for executions.2) When you analyze samples from the small gas chamber, you find that the cyanide decay products in the walls are thousands of times higher than background level in the camp – which was already elevated since all buildings were regularly fumigated.3) When you analyze samples from the purported killing gas chamber (called Krema II by scholars), the cyanide content is at background level, same as the rest of the camps.As for the chemical data, this test was made by Fred Leuchter, America’s only gas chamber expert – probably the only expert in the world since America is the only country that ever killed prisoners with cyanide gas. He sent the samples to an independent chemistry lab and asked them to do the analyses, not telling them where the samples were from.When the Leuchter-Report was submitted for evidence in the 1988 Zündel-trial, an interdiction against taking samples from the gas chamber was enforced, since it would desecrate a holy Jewish monument.The Leuchter-Report was poo-poo’ed by the usual suspects because Leuchter was not an engineer, a claim he’d made during the trial, so a German PhD-student in chemistry, Germar Rudolf, went over the report and weeded out Leuchter’s procedural mistakes, crossing the ts and dotting the is, so to speak.The Auschwitz Museum then issued their own report, claiming that since Zyklon B would not penetrate into brickwork, only the surface micrometer should’ve been analyzed and that using a big chunk essentially diluted the sample.Of course, that doesn’t explain the disparity between the small gas chamber and Krema II, and doesn’t explain how you can see big, Prussian blue blotches of oxidized cyanine on the OUTSIDE of the gas chamber, where the gas had penetrated clean though the walls.Here’s a summary of the whole drama:https://ia800602.us.archive.org/10/items/TheLeuchterReports/the-leuchter-reports-fred-a-leuchter-jr-robert-faurisson-germar-rudolf-2005-revisionism.pdf
Steve #422958 September 6, 2024 1:50 pm 3
I think that’s fairly new. I picked mine up from one of those used book sites Amazon links to. Must have been 10, 12 years ago, as I selected that as one of the texts for my firstborn’s history “class”. I know I didn’t give the $180 they are asking now.
Arshad Ali #422836 September 6, 2024 10:00 am 17
“A movie like ‘Der Untergang’ ” ‘Der Untergang’ was one of those semi-banned films in the USA. Not much fanfare and quietly taken off after a few weeks. It probably made the tribe acutely uncomfortable as it showed the Germans as humans, and courageous and principled even in defeat. And the film wasn’t even revisionist.
Felix Krull #422957 September 6, 2024 1:44 pm 7
The only revisionist bit was the depraved, drunken party instigated by Eva Braun, where she dances on a table. They made that up. There was a lot of drinking in the Bunker, but people kept it together to the end.
Tars Tarkas #422853 September 6, 2024 10:31 am 17
A youtuber going by the name of “Zoomer Historian” has a pretty good series on ww2 and particularly the Nazis. He mentions many times that Churchill had bankrupted himself and was being financially supported by some (((warmongers))). There was another guy too, who was in the Parliament also on the bankroll of these (((warmongers)))
Wiffle #422880 September 6, 2024 11:29 am 5
Yes, it appears that Churchill’s thoughts about the Jews come from interacting with them a great deal. It’s just back then you could say stuff, with a new taboo imposed after WWII. Non-fiction publications are very startlingly different on that topic, pre and post WWII.
KGB #423065 September 7, 2024 8:30 am 3
I’ve been reading Brann’sThe Iconoclastrecently, a collection of Gilded Age essays by a newspaper man, William Brann, that he sold in periodical form as a side business. Economics, history, culture, and race – it’s exactly like reading a blog from that era. But, my goodness, his essays on the 13% would make today’s Klansmen blush. And he had a circulation of nearly 100,000, many of whom were pillars in their communities.
Ostei Kozelskii #423080 September 7, 2024 2:06 pm 2
Folks back then had the helluva lot better fix on the 13-percenters than do today’s Ivy League profs. It’s not even close.
Tars Tarkas #423067 September 7, 2024 10:02 am 4
The first time I encountered it was in Jules Verne’s Out on a Comet. Hilariously accurate. One of the character’s name is Isaac Hakkabut who is a sea based merchant. He’s a miserable creature who cannot get along with anyone in the colony and spends most of his time sulking in his ship. He constantly complains about being a poor Jewish trader. The colonists decide they want to measure their comet and ask Hakkabut to borrow his scale so they can weigh some coins to ascertain the gravity of the comet. But nothing comes out as expected. Eventually they figure out his scale is rigged to say things are heavier than they are.At some point in the post war period, the book was turned into a cartoon. All references to Hakkabut’s duplicity is scrubbed.
Auld Mark #422884 September 6, 2024 11:33 am 6
Thanks for the reference Tars, I looked him up on U tube, listened to one , then subbed.Its easy for these younger guys to fly ( unter) my radar.
Felix Krull #422904 September 6, 2024 12:08 pm 9
Churchill lost all his money on Black Tuesday of ’29, he had bought a manor house – Chartwell – with half a dozen maids and manservants, and this being during his wilderness years, his only income was from writing and speaking.Luckily a lobby group called Focus rode to his rescue. It was not strictly Jewish: although most members were Jews, there were also English Fabians and some industrialists who wanted the war to crush the German competition to British industry. The details of this group is what presumably is in Churchill’s War volume 3, which we’re still waiting for – hopefully not in vain.I’m not a Churchill-hater – Churchill was an outstanding writer and in many ways a representative of the best kind of eccentric the Empire had on offer but he was also a cold-hearted, mercenary opportunist that cared more about his pocket book than the did about England and he should never had been prime minister.
Dutchboy #422996 September 6, 2024 4:50 pm 12
He had a fondness for attacks on civilians, e.g., poison gas attacks on Iraqi villagers, a plan to drop anthrax-laced bombs on Germany and, of course, the grand daddy of them all – the unrestricted use of area bombing on Germany.
Felix Krull #423054 September 7, 2024 2:46 am 3
Nobody’s perfect.
Dutchboy #422995 September 6, 2024 4:33 pm 5
He needed all that dough to support his brandy habit (he put away large amounts of the stuff).
Tired Citizen #422792 September 6, 2024 7:32 am 52
One of the most difficult things for people who come over to our side is coming to the realization that most everything you were “taught” about ‘Murica was a lie. I know it was somewhat difficult for me early on, but once you see it you can’t unsee it. This idea that this country is so very good and everywhere else was so very bad was a crock of shit. The “good guys” seemed to win “every single time”. Isn’t that something…. Every. Single. Time.
Salmon #422825 September 6, 2024 9:34 am 30
As a whole I think America has been an absolute disaster for white people and I don’t particularly care about anything else, so yeah, fuck the USA
Ostei Kozelskii #422852 September 6, 2024 10:28 am 31
We must separate America proper (1776-1965) from transitionary America (1966-2020) and the GAE (2021 to the present). America itself was praiseworthy, albeit flawed as is every nation. The successive iterations increasingly less so even to the point that the GAE is quite literally the Great Satan.
Jeffrey Zoar #422858 September 6, 2024 10:43 am 18
I date the GAE from 1945, certainly there’s no dating it any later than 1991. Its racial politics/GR/war on whiteness don’t track the same timeline.
Ostei Kozelskii #422898 September 6, 2024 11:54 am 8
But was it really the GAE when it wasn’t attempting to condemn and subjugate white people across the globe? It seems to me that the Cold War was far less reprehensible than the War on Whitey, and it is that moral mulct that, in conjunction with its geopolitical aggression, largely define the GAE.
Dutchboy #422997 September 6, 2024 4:55 pm 9
Sam Francis divided the political history of the USA into three phases: The first republic (1776-1865), the second republic (1865-1945), and the American Empire (1945 – ?). WWII was the definitive entry into the empire. Previous imperial-like adventures (the Spanish-American War, WWI) set the table but WWII was the main course.
Auld Mark #422889 September 6, 2024 11:39 am 8
Ostei, I think one must also note the fundamental shift that occurred in 1865.
Ostei Kozelskii #422901 September 6, 2024 11:58 am 10
A shift there most certainly was, and it was very unfortunate. However, although the instruments of totalitarianism were forged in the crucible of the Civil War, the permanent lurch toward Leftist tyranny didn’t occur until much later. I really believe Leftist supremacy, and particularly New Leftist supremacy, is the key factor in distinguishing between America and something far, far worse.
Steve #422960 September 6, 2024 1:58 pm 7
Maybe. My quibble is that the ideas acted upon then, jailing Maryland legislators without trial, suspension of habeas corpus, the executive ordering federal agents and troops to destroy the printing presses of dissenting journalists, deliberate targeting of civilians, income tax, etc., while rolled back, became a precedent for times of emergency, and by now, just whenevs, dude.
Ostei Kozelskii #422971 September 6, 2024 2:33 pm 6
These are the byproducts of war. War has always served as justification for crackdowns on domestic dissent. Sometimes the crackdowns are even justified.
Wiffle #422897 September 6, 2024 11:51 am 4
From my view, America proper ended in 1861. The experiment died. The Constitution never offered an exit clause. However, the Bill of Rights made it clear that the states intended to keep a level of sovereignty that Mr. Lincoln’s War destroyed.I would break up American history into these categories:-American Experiment 1776-1861 – We can still find vestiges of medieval European culture in America in this phase-Imperial America 1861- 1944/1948 – This includes the doubling of the US in less than few decades, the closing of the West, and the odd refusal of the Federal government by 1900 to let states own the land.-GAE – 1944-2020 – Begins formally with Bretton woods and ends with the installment of Biden over Trump in the world’s least hidden vote rigging. This a take over from the UK and her GEE, and almost a seamless continuation of it. Israel was created by the UK, but has needed the protection of the GAE.-2021 to today – The falling apart of the GAE, including loss of the petro dollar.Your comments are excellent in general, at least in MHO. What see much more commonly is people freaking out about what has already happened to a large extent. We predict in ominous tones the dubious life we’re mostly forced to live now. (Example: “They’ll force to be cash less!” My thought: When was the last time you used cash, exactly???, etc, etc,)From my POV, even as our tech improved from 1861 on, our our spiritual/communal lives as humans all got worse. The next way point at mid 20th century, all the woke stuff is in the culture at large. You can see that clear change in everything from magazines to sewing patterns to TV. We’re more in the final exam phase of the degeneration here. What is surprising and frustrating Hollywood is that open degeneracy is not popular and not making money. They really have been softening everyone up for decades.
Wiffle #422916 September 6, 2024 12:31 pm -1
It’s totally funny to me that vaguely hopeful opinions, with open praise for another poster will get negative votes.
Zulu Juliet #422989 September 6, 2024 4:13 pm 6
I don’t understand how one sees negative votes on these threads. All I see are the aggregate sum with thumbs up being +1 and thumbs down being -1.
imnobody00 #422924 September 6, 2024 12:51 pm 3
The history of USA is the history of a Freemasonic political system (created after independence) slowly corrupting a Christian people (derived from colonization). An evil system for a good people. It lasted until mandatory schooling and mass media indoctinated American people with Freemasonic ideas. The 60s
Wiffle #422933 September 6, 2024 1:06 pm 6
No, not really. As a practicing Catholic, I appreciate us being right all along on the Freemasons. However, not everything bad in history can be linked to that group. History is not that simple.
Ben the Layabout #423012 September 6, 2024 6:46 pm 6
Of course not silly, it’s the Jews! 🤡 Actually to think about it, a lot of times it probablyis them.🤔
Steve #422963 September 6, 2024 2:13 pm 0
Interesting. Hadn’t really thought about that much. Lately I’ve been learning a lot about the ideology of Nazism, and the line from Freemasonry through Rosicrucianism is not exactly subtle in von List, and even stronger in Fritsch. But I hadn’t thought to look for it in the American founding. Where do you see Freemasonry most prominently, or do you think it’s more of a background noise? TBH, I’ve always written this off as Flat Earth, but after seeing the authors themselves tracing their ideas through Freemasonry…
Scot Irish #423029 September 6, 2024 7:34 pm 2
Washington DC. The city’s layout. The location of buildings and monuments. I believe there’s still a statue of Confederate general Albert Pike in Washington DC.
Steve #423043 September 6, 2024 9:14 pm 0
Oh, yeah, I know that. Plus Washington wearing all that Masonic garb laying the cornerstone of the US Capitol. Franklin, too, I think. Yes, I know Masons were involved. I just didn’t realize it was a “Freemasonic political system”. Which Article or Section suggests Freemasonry influence?
Dutchboy #422999 September 6, 2024 5:02 pm 4
America is a philosophical product of the moderate Enlightenment which was the governing ideology of the founders. It is not a system compatible with Christianity. It has slowly rotted away any influence of Christianity on public policy. All the modern abominations (sexual deviancy, abortion, transsexuality) flow from it.
Steve #423031 September 6, 2024 7:45 pm 0
I see this a lot, and have not seen a good explanation. One need not agree with Kant in all aspects to appreciate his explanation that Enlightenment was just man casting off the self-imposed blinders that kept him from asking, “Why?”Yes, I get that the church at the onset of the Enlightenment was very much in the “accept our facts, or we will pluck out your lying eyes” but that was not always the case. The church was one of the big sponsors of the universities. Heck, the Scholastics were critical to the Counter-Reformation.I agree that the modern abominations are, at core, questioning why a thing is wrong, if it took, what, 350 years to get there, maybe look to see if there might be a more proximate cause? Why not blame it on the Classical Greeks for dressing up in drag to play females?
KGB #422950 September 6, 2024 1:34 pm 9
How does one view the Monroe Doctrine in light of the early Republic/American Experiment? We already had the capability at that point to pull up the draw bridge and concentrate on expanding and fortifying the territory between the two oceans. Why imply that our interests also lie thousands of miles off our coast, involving foreign powers and half-breeds with whom we share no common cause?
Dutchboy #423000 September 6, 2024 5:04 pm 10
Bismarck noted the good fortune of America being surrounded by “oceans and weaklings.” Our statesmen have thrown away this precious gift and insisted on placing us on the dismal treadmill trod by less fortunate nations: chronic war.
Lineman #422962 September 6, 2024 2:12 pm 6
Very well said and I concur…Even though the period between the rev war and civ war would of been tougher I think I would of rather lived then when they still understood what Community really was all about…
Compsci #423077 September 7, 2024 12:05 pm 2
I tend to agree, Ostei. I’ve had some time to read older, out-of-print books on American history. They seem to describe another world. Something happened, but it was not from “the beginning”. The aspect of living in lies seems to have gone into overdrive in the 20th century.
Citizen of a Silly Country #422795 September 6, 2024 7:43 am 37
Cooper has an excellent podcast series on Jeffrey Epstein. It’s truly disturbing in so many ways. Yes, there’s the Epstein is a monster aspect, but it’s the entire Jewish ecosystem operating within the US and, really, globally that astonished me. Epstein was just a cog in a much larger machine.
Jack Dobson #422814 September 6, 2024 8:28 am 19
Right. I earlier referenced THE ANTI-HUMANS, Cooper’s earlier exploration of the communist terror and mass murder prior to the war. That subject along with Epstein cannot be explored unless the heavy Jewish involvement in both is examined. Much of the current fury is pent-up anger over the previous podcasts that touched on those subjects.
Hemid #422856 September 6, 2024 10:37 am 16
Both are greatly marred by not only the expected #notalljews style disclaimers but by barely contained rage at the imagined audience for thinking that any Jew anywhere has ever been motivated by Jewishness to do anything to anyone.What’s forbidden isn’t “noticing”—a consuming pastime / infinite game our rulers enjoy watching us play (and refereeing)—but simple understanding:Jews hate you. If you learn that from this guy’s work, which for layman-accessible historyisexceptionally honest, that’s not what he wants.I’ve complained about him before, for other reasons. I know what school his accent comes from so I know what kind of “glowie” he is. The part of his semi-revisionist vocation he most relishes is calling history’s greatest rightist thinkers and writers unfuckable losers. Etc.He’s a cop—of the soul if not the badge (but also the badge). They do not act in your interest. Enjoy when they shoot each other, but never relax.
Jack Dobson #422879 September 6, 2024 11:28 am 6
Excellent point. Still, his glow does not protect him totally, which is quite amusing.
RVIDXR #422900 September 6, 2024 11:58 am 10
I have to go back & re-read all the “real history” books that revealed lies I was taught about with my jew-dar on. In hindsight there was all sorts of things I read in passing that mentioned Epstein esque information but didn’t & simply couldn’t call attention to it too directly because no major publisher would ever allow it & mainstream stores would never sell it. Even in the conspiracy circuit that kind of stuff was nearly unanimously blacklisted & still to this day is. For example Laurent Guyénot tried to enter his JFK—911 documentary into a 911 truther festival a year or two ago & IIRC the organizers said they were told the event would be shut down if they allowed that film to be played.Still I know from memory that there was a lot of jewish names & jew adjacent organizations mentioned in many of those books I read back in the day. Whenever discussing something related to globalist conspiracies & the like it’s essentially impossible to not end up mentioning something related to one of the mossad glowies & their related organizations. A random example off the top of my head is the guy who founded & ran the MK-Ultra program was a jew, on its own that doesn’t seem remarkable but when each node on the spider web connecting all these different shady organizations has an israeli involved it begins to form a pattern that changes the entire understanding of a lot of history. So I wanna go through and read everything again & parse out those little details, I’m sure I’ll notice a lot that I didn’t pick up on before.
joey jünger #422787 September 6, 2024 6:56 am 34
I remember before Buchanan had quite been ridden out of town on a rail, he pointed out that there was a difference between concentration camps and death camps. A concentration camp, like Andersonville, was where prisoners were packed so densely that disease had no choice but to proliferate and people would die. See “Portals to Hell: Military Prisons in the Civil War” by Lonnie R. Speer. Or see present-day Gaza.Death camps, Buchanan correctly pointed out, were established with the sole purpose of killing. Rather than letting nature take its course in a Darwinian fashion, man would step in, to put bullets in prisoners’ heads or otherwise dispatch them.It was at this point that Bill Kristol ceased sunning himself on his rock, took a break from snagging flies with his forked tongue and put the word out. “PAT BUCHANAN SAYS THERE WERE NO CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN WORLD WAR TWO!” He smeared Uncle Pat with the “denier” label when Pat was actually agreeing with the official version. Still, Buchanan’s so evenly-keeled, like Jared Taylor, that there will be no “Gradually I began to hate them moment” for him. Maybe his sangfroid is the right reaction to banishment. The older he gets and the more irrelevant they try to make him, the more his ideas take center stage, and (more importantly) take firm root in young minds.He is the quintessential happy warrior. It couldn’t be otherwise. Else, he’d be dead by now of a massive coronary. Staying pissed all the time—rolling in the dirt with the left—will get you slabbed and toetagged young like Breitbart. Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if coke helped him reach that destination.
Felix Krull #422788 September 6, 2024 6:59 am -10
Buchanan (or whoever wrote Unnecessary War) is one example of how you can steal half your stuff from Irving without crediting him with even a single quote.
Marko #422790 September 6, 2024 7:15 am 29
The difference between Andersonville, the Japanese internments camps, and Auschwitz, was that the peoples at Auschwitz were…you know. If Auschwitz had been peopled by Italians or Russians, I doubt we’d be hearing about it and the masturbation machines. But we all know this.This whole thing reminds me a lot about how the CCP(Chinese Communist Party)developed their view the “Rape of Nanking”. This was perhaps a more enthusiastic raping and pillaging of a city than the Japs normally did, but it wasn’t beyond the pale. The CCP didn’t really promote it until much later, when they decided they needed to stick it to the Japs, play the victim card, and of course it’s been embellished a hundredfold since then.
Mycale #422867 September 6, 2024 10:49 am 20
Look at what they said about October 7th. Their entire narrative has been totally debunked. The decapitated babies, the babies stuffed in ovens, the total failure of their security apparatus, the broken pelvis rape victims, the fact that a large number of Israeli citizens died at the hands of the IDF. All of this stuff has been reported in Israeli papers, or quotes from Israeli officials. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just facts. Does it stop anyone from talking about the narrative, including the dead babies? It does not. They just keep talking about it like these facts don’t exist. It doesn’t matter to them. They just keep pushing their story. I saw people on a boomer forum talk about the decapitated babies last week. Again, this an event that just happened less than a year ago, and they’re just totally lying about all of it, and they are lying to people who know the facts and know they are lying, and daring to be challenged (they know they won’t be).
manc #422885 September 6, 2024 11:35 am 8
I wonder if the Israelis focus grouped the decapitated babies stuff. Stevie Wonder could see that story was bullshit.
Steve #422967 September 6, 2024 2:24 pm 12
Plenty of lies to go around. American “news” outlets and politicians called J6 an insurrection and the biggest threat since Pearl Harbor. Newsies and politicos lie. It’s what they do. We had Russian Collusion, and are seeing it brought back around. There was no vote fraud. Get set for Covid II: Wrath of Con. The right’s narrative is “totally debunked”. Wherever the truth in the Middle East lies, (sorry) it’s none of my business. We should have sat out WWI and WWII, and it would probably be a good idea to sit out WWIII. Just one guy’s opinion.
Jeffrey Zoar #422833 September 6, 2024 9:58 am 31
The thing that saddens me the most is what has been done to the German people over the last century or so.(full disclosure: my genome is more than half German).They were the first target in the War On Whiteness (one could theorize why), and to date are the most effectively devastated target in that war. Sometimes I think about what might have been had their nation/civilization been allowed to reach its flower. So I mourn. Far as I know, nobody else does.
Jack Dobson #422845 September 6, 2024 10:15 am 18
White Southerners were the original target, albeit the anti-whiteness was less virulent than what happened to Germans.
Horace #422860 September 6, 2024 10:44 am 17
It’s dark humor funny that Judeopuritan progressives have made feeling shame over our past a cornerstone of GAE personal identity. The only shame I feel is for my ancestor’s fighting against our Southern brothers for the abominable ‘union’ and for my ancestor’s contributions in both world wars against Germany. The world needs Germans. The world (a better future for humanity) doesn’t need Puritans, and it sure as hell doesn’t need Jews, a people who mass graves follow like rain follows a storm cloud. GAE delenda est
Wiffle #422918 September 6, 2024 12:35 pm -1
A subset of English as we know them are Puritans. However, if I find Christian groups who are really focused on exteriors, I will also find a lot of Germans. That would include the Amish/Mennonites stateside.
TempoNick #422932 September 6, 2024 1:03 pm 10
For better Or worse, if the union hadn’t been saved, we would never have risen to superpower status. We’d be a couple of France’s if not one or two more. Or maybe three Canada’s and a Little Mexico. So there is also that to think about. The really, really, really stupid thing whites did was bring slaves over in the first place. This country would be so much calmer today if we didn’t have a bunch of sub-100 IQs with a chip on their shoulder.
Wiffle #422937 September 6, 2024 1:20 pm 9
“f the union hadn’t been saved, we would never have risen to superpower status. We’d be a couple of France’s if not one or two more. Or maybe three Canada’s and a Little Mexico. So there is also that to think about.”We can only dream about what might have been. *sigh*“The really, really, really stupid thing whites did was bring slaves over in the first place. This country would be so much calmer today if we didn’t have a bunch of sub-100 IQs with a chip on their shoulder.”You’ll need to consult your fellow Jews on that one. They’ve been in the slave importing business for millennia. They even had a whole colony in the Caribbean at one point.
TempoNick #422941 September 6, 2024 1:26 pm -7
nxbcbbxbxnxbxnx
Wiffle #422953 September 6, 2024 1:37 pm 7
This is indeed enlightening, thank you for the insight.
TempoNick #422943 September 6, 2024 1:28 pm -10
I’m not a Jhoo, but thanks. But remember, divide and conquer. A balkanized North America makes us maybe another Paraguay? And who isn’t balkanized? Russia and China? I don’t buy the neocon boogeyman scare tactics about those two, but I also wouldn’t want those two running the world either.Imagine a North America of three or four Canada’s. Not enough critical mass for a General Electric, an Exxon, Intel or a Ford to rise from. No lunar missions, velcro, tang, interstate highways, either. Carpetbagger Chinese EV plants. No ability to push back on the green new deal on a meaningful global scale. That’s not ideal either.
Bloated Boomer #423056 September 7, 2024 3:10 am 6
The lunar missions were thanks to operation paperclip. Germany (and Britain etc.) were capable of great things, advances, art and expression despite being smaller.Ameri-Burger-Topia has just become a big dumb golem with factions fighting over taking the reins.
Steve #422974 September 6, 2024 2:41 pm 9
“if the union hadn’t been saved, we would never have risen to superpower status.” Dunno. While size of the populace helps, it’s not everything. China and India, for example. Start with the dissolved Union, North and South of 1861, throw out all the useless eaters, and both could easily become superpowers. Though I think they would probably be mostly in agreement once they hauled out the trash.
Bloated Boomer #423057 September 7, 2024 3:15 am 7
And is being a “super power” all it’s cracked up to be? Once I started supporting Trump sincerely, it was in the hope that the USA could become domestically focused and act more like a normal country. I think that would have been better for everyone.
Paulskin #422861 September 6, 2024 10:46 am 8
I mourn too, and I’m English.
Boris #422862 September 6, 2024 10:46 am 22
“Far as I know, nobody else does.”I do. I am half German. My mother grew up under the Third Reich and was forced to work in a munitions factory when she turned 18 in 1944. Her factory and city were bombed relentlessly. In 1949 she married my father who was a GI stationed near her hometown. She had many horrifying stories that I fortunately recorded before her death.Yes, the Germans are a beaten people, but so were they, too, after WWI. They are an orderly people who crave leadership (luckily my dad’s side of the family was mostly Irish, which stokes my rebellious streak… and gives me a great liver!). Depending on who’s leading them, Germans can be docile or they can be ferocious. It only takes one generation. I think once the shackles of the GAE are thrown off, they will rise again in all their ferocity. Let’s hope so.
KGB #423030 September 6, 2024 7:38 pm 1
Horrifying stories of living in Nazi Germany or enduring the Allied occupation?
Ostei Kozelskii #422866 September 6, 2024 10:48 am 20
What America and its allies did to the Germans after WWII was an utter abomination and I deplore it unreconstructedly. However, war begets atrocities. All the more reason for the nations of the world to tend to their own knitting and refrain from meddling in the affairs of others. I know, I know–a pipedream.
Ben the Layabout #423027 September 6, 2024 7:28 pm 7
Pipedream? Rare, but has been done: Switzerland or Sweden. Sadly, both of these seem to have mostly thrown away the benefits of neutrality (> 500 years in CH’s case!!!) for the siren song of GAE. SV is now in NATO and overrun with “refugees.” I don’t think CH is yet officially in NATO or EU but they might as well be. They caved to US/EU pressure destroying their bank secrecy and similar and only in recent decades. Currently they are punishing Wrongthink not unlike other European [former] bastions of freedom. I don’t know what the future holds for those once-neutral nations, but it doesn’t look bright from my vantage point.
Zulu Juliet #422886 September 6, 2024 11:36 am 0
If you want to know sorrow, watch Triumph of the Will. It shows the German people in all their glory. Then think that the same country was smoldering rubble in only eleven years. The movie shows clearly who was responsible: Interspersed with all fabulous shots of normal Germans are snippets of the Nazi politicians, with callow faces and greasy hair haranguing the crowd. Those bastards destroyed the country.Sure, one can reasonably dump on Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin, but they didn’t invade Poland, or Russia, nor did they “trick” the Nazis into it. Hitler declared war on the USA all on his own. That miserable S.O.B. brought the Eighth Air Force over the Fatherland, and the Red Army into Berlin.
Jannie #422891 September 6, 2024 11:43 am -1
Too right. Most Germans weren’t to know back then that it would end in the ruins of Stalingrad and Berlin.
Boris #422907 September 6, 2024 12:14 pm 21
“Sure, one can reasonably dump on Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin, but they didn’t invade Poland, or Russia, nor did they “trick” the Nazis into it.” So it would’ve been better for the Weimar Rep to succumb to Bolshevism? That was indeed the only alternative. The Bolsheviks led by a certain demographic were very close to capturing the WR and with it the German people. It’s not a stretch to see a reverse holocaust having happened, this time with German Christians in the camps. That’s what happened to millions of Russian Christians in the USSR after the Bolsheviks took over.
Wiffle #422922 September 6, 2024 12:42 pm 10
“So it would’ve been better for the Weimar Rep to succumb to Bolshevism? ”That’s not the only alternative and never was. One of the more invested hobbies on the Internet is making Hitler Into a Saint because GAE makes him the Devil. (TM). Objectively as possible, he was not that far in disagreement from actual communists on how a country ought to be run. WWII really was a spreadsheet war from the German POV. Hitler had plans to replace Christianity as surely as communists intended to replace Christianity with state atheism. Heck, the Nazis had no use for Germans and Germany, preferring some entirely made up concept of “Ayran”. The Great Replacement certainly existed back then too.The Nazis ultimately did Germany dirty in pursuit of their utopic society. Hilter was in position to rebuild and regain from being done dirty in WWI. What he did was gambled big, lost it all, and committed suicide. Meanwhile next door in Spain, Franco won his war against the Bolsheviks and kept Spain out of WWII. Franco’s biggest mistake was not planning better for successor.
Ostei Kozelskii #422940 September 6, 2024 1:22 pm 11
You’re certainly right about Nazis’ views of Christianity. They regarded it as a religion of the weak and as irredemably tainted by Judaism. Now that doesn’t mean they would have slaughtered German Christians, given the chance, but they probably would have marginalized them had they won the war.
Wiffle #422951 September 6, 2024 1:35 pm 2
They marginalized Christians during the war. The first prisoners in concentration camps were political. Many of them were sincere Christians of all denominations who had their own reasons for opposing the Nazi regime. The Sound of Music is of course a Hollywood production, but the status of Christianity under it appears to be pretty well accurate.The hope I think though was to wipe out German Christianity through attrition. That’s similar to the hope of rounding up Jews and sending them anywhere else after the war.
Ostei Kozelskii #422936 September 6, 2024 1:19 pm 14
I don’t think it was necessary to invade another country in order to crush domestic communism and Weimar degeneracy.
Steve #422978 September 6, 2024 2:56 pm 2
Right. Just look at the split in the Reichstag. While early Weimar had dozens of political parties, by 1930 it was pretty accurate to say it split between the international socialists (communists) and the national socialists (nazis), with the commies slightly ahead, depending on where coalitions could be made. DNVP dropped from around 20% to under 10%. Even the anti-socialist DVP had gone from 50-60 seats to 5, 7 something like that. Late Weimar, socialism was where it was at. The only question was what kind of socialism.
Chimeral #423033 September 6, 2024 8:01 pm 6
Russia, indeed invaded Poland. Took more of the country than the Germans did. Massacred thousands of Poles, look up Katyn Forest.
Lineman #422903 September 6, 2024 12:05 pm 2
You are not alone Bruder in who you are and what you think…
Bartleby the Scrivner #422811 September 6, 2024 8:24 am 30
Speaking of real history, Rageaholic has a video called “Lincoln, Americas first tyrant”. It’s a well done piece. Worth the time. Ole Abe did then, what todays stooges are doing, only on steroids. You don’t know what you don’t know.
Wiffle #422899 September 6, 2024 11:56 am 12
When I become Queen of the universe, the first thing that’s going is that Zeus like “worship me” monument to him in DC. You’ll note he’s the only American President with actual statue around the American mall.
Jack Dobson #422810 September 6, 2024 8:22 am 28
Yes, dinging the Scientology-like World War II religious narrative can be quite dangerous indeed, but Daryl Cooper previously did the potentially fatal: he has focused on the actual third rail, which is the overwhelming Jewish involvement in the communist horror and Gentile extermination campaign that long preceded the war. There apparently is an unpublished biblical commandment that Jews only can be victims and never among the worst monsters in history. To think otherwise is to believe your lying eyes about things such as Gaza and white genocide today. As the cucks and communists flap their crippled wings and demand podcasts be regulated and the blasphemers cast into the void, they draw attention to the rabbi behind the curtain. That’s bad for the Tribe. Really bad.Check out MartyrMade’s THE ANTI-HUMANS, which can be heard free, to understand the true source of the actual outrage outside of the conservative slaves’ impotent bleatings on behalf of their leftist masters. Felix correctly referenced David Irving as a far better source than Cooper, and in this narrow sense so is Diana West (who is mildly cucky herself except she documented the actual inconvenient circumstances of Soviet terror), but neither has the popular audience a podcast can command.Finally, as an aside, conservatives are truly, truly retarded, and have learned absolutely nothing and are incapable of learning anything. In the same week they attacked Tucker and Cooper, they lined up for a new hot dose of Russiagate dished out by a particularly evil Jew, the demonic criminal Merrick Garland nee’ Garfinkle. No wonder Buckley and Co. so easily manipulated them over the evil of communism and still were able to avoid who was disproportionately responsible for it. Fortunately, those outside of Con, Inc., (and surprisingly some within) see the ethnic cleansing of Gaza for what it is and how it reflects a widespread Jewish attitude that Gentiles are not human beings at all. Lines will be drawn, and if it takes an emotional podcast to connect the dots, so be it.
Ostei Kozelskii #422854 September 6, 2024 10:35 am 17
“Pay no attention to the rabbi behind the curtain!” That has meme potential.
KGB #422944 September 6, 2024 1:28 pm 5
Unfortunately, the “Hey rabbi, watcha doin’?” meme seems to have gone by the wayside.
Xman #422948 September 6, 2024 1:32 pm 25
Almost everything that Americans think they know about WWII is completely wrong. The approved narrative is literally the victors’ narrative. The fact is that the U.S. is literally at fault for creating Nazi Germany.College professor Woodrow Wilson overturned 130 years of established American foreign policy when he sent 2 million troops to France in 1917 to fight a country that never did and never could attack or conquer us. He rejected the explicit counsel of George Washington and numerous other to stay the hell out of European wars and out of military alliances. He did so because he had a Messiah complex (for which George Clemenceau mocked him) to “redeem the world” and “make the world safe for democracy.”It was basically international American imperialism cloaked as high moral duty. It was bullshit.But what about the Lusitania and the Zimmerman Telegram? The Lusitania was a British ship, not an American one. It was carrying war material. The Admiralty was basically using the passengers as human shields to and daring the German U-boats to sink it. The German embassy took out ads in the New York newspapers warning passengers not to sail on it because it was carrying war material and was thus fair game.It was sunk in 1915. In 1916 Wilson’s campaign slogan for a second term was “He kept us out of war.” In April 1917, one month after his second inauguration, the lying son-of-a-bitch asked Congress to declare war.And arrested anyone who criticized it.The Zimmerman telegram specifically stated that Germany hoped the U.S. would remain neutral — but if it didn’t, asked Mexico to consider allying with the Central Powers. Sounds fair to me.If the U.S. had stayed out, Germany would have achieved a rapprochement with Russia in the east and slowly bled out Britain in the west, until a cease fire occurred. Instead, the Allies partitioned Germany at Versailles, and stripped it of its ability to defend itself against a communist USSR led by Jews like Leon Trotsky and attempting to foment global revolution. Anyone who is unfamiliar with the Bavarian Soviet, the Hungarian Soviet, the Spartacist Coup, or the Battle of Warsaw in 1920 knows nothing about the rise of National Socialism or why anti-Semitism was its core platform.One of Wilson’s central conditions for an armistice in 1918 was to create a new map of Europe based in “ethnic self-determination” for Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, and “Jugo-Slavs.”But not Germans, who were partitioned and placed under the control of several other countries.Churchill and and Daladier absolutely goaded Germany into war. The British war guarantee to Poland (actually issued by Chamberlain) was a farce. Britain had no bases and no troops in Poland. It was impossible to defend Poland. Everyone knew that Germany wanted to re-unify with ethnic Germans in Danzig and East Prussia.Tellingly, when the Soviet Union and Germany partitioned Poland… they only declared war on Germany. They allied themselves with the communist USSR of Josef Stalin.In other words, they were actually the aggressors. Germany did not declare war on them first; they declared war on Germany over Poland.And then they got their asses kicked. Hitler should have slaughtered all the British at Dunkirk. He let them go because he did not want war with Britain, he just wanted them off the continent so he could deal with his communist adversary, the USSR. he never wanted to invade or conquer Britain. Or the U.S.Nazi Germany absolutely committed significant atrocities during the war. Some of the lore is false, some of it is true. But Nazi atrocities were not a casas belli for the Allies, they were an ex post facto rationalization for Allied actions after the war ended.The Allies committed plenty of atrocities of their own, which are typically whitewashed. Our Soviet “allies” gang-raped millions of German woman in 1945-46. Our air crews who bombed woman and children and grandmothers are called “heroes” who fought “our freedom.”Bullshit. They were conscripts who were ordered to go out and kill people the same way German conscripts were ordered to go out and kill people. They were ordered to kill people who voted for the National Socialists in democratic elections.To make the world safe for democracy, you see. Sort of the same way that when the people voted for Trump in a democracy, he had to be arrested, sued, and shot — to preserve democracy.“Conservatives” who think out military “heroes” should go to foreign countries and kill people are not conservatives at all, they are Wilsonian progressive global imperialists.The truly conservative position is what Washington and John Quincy Adams counseled — America First. The rest of the world can kill each other by the boatload if they want.Not our monkeys, not our circus.
MysteriousOrca #422992 September 6, 2024 4:25 pm 6
Excellent, spot on, well-informed analysis, Xman.
Xman #423028 September 6, 2024 7:31 pm 7
Thank you. I did a bit of academic work on the subject. Unfortunately few people care that much of our 20th century foreign policy was built on self-serving lies.
Steve #423045 September 6, 2024 9:32 pm 2
I think the cool (well, a cool — there is so much that most people don’t know about it) part of the Lusitania is that it backs up the German version of the story. They claimed that they had taken out ads in all the major local papers. (20 comes to mind, but don’t quote me.) When Wilson heard about it he issued orders to make sure the newspapers did not print it.But they missed one newspaper, I forget which. And there was at least one person who saw that ad and whose life was saved because he heeded it.
Lineman #423013 September 6, 2024 6:52 pm 5
Well said Brother…
The Wild Geese Howard #423016 September 6, 2024 7:01 pm 8
Xman- Thanks for this great post. It echoes many of my own sentiments about Wilson and the World Wars. As we travel farther into the future it’s becomes clearer and clearer WW2 could not have happened without the particular outcome of WW1 that Wilson’s disgusting meddling enabled.
Xman #423062 September 7, 2024 7:02 am 5
Yes, 100%. It is really imperative to think of the world wars as an interconnected event, not as separate and discrete events, to gain an accurate understanding of 20th century history.
Pass Line #423017 September 6, 2024 7:01 pm 5
Wilson had weaknesses that others exploited. Theyencouragedappointment of somebody to some key position orpushedenacting some policy that would be rued immediately. See Income Tax as one of the latter.
Big_tech #423044 September 6, 2024 9:31 pm 4
“Hitler should have slaughtered all the British at Dunkirk.” would have ultimately saved many innocent lives.
Coalclinker #422794 September 6, 2024 7:38 am 23
Even though it’s going to turn into a living hell, we are blessed to be alive to watch the collapse and likely dissolution of the United States. The best part will be to observe how our elites end up on the ash heap of history. If we’re lucky every single Democrat and RINO will get run out of the country on a rail.
Outdoorspro #422847 September 6, 2024 10:20 am 19
If we’re lucky every single Democrat and RINO will get run out of the country on a rail. Your hopes for the outcome of our current elites are far more ‘gentle’ than mine.
Mike #422983 September 6, 2024 3:14 pm 6
Ahh, but he didn’t say where the rail would end up.
Lineman #423007 September 6, 2024 5:59 pm 5
Why waste the fuel though?
Ben the Layabout #422793 September 6, 2024 7:34 am 22
Well done Cooper, Carson and Zman: once again the horrors of “revisionism” get an airing, yet no mention of the role of The Tribe manipulating Western nations into WW I and II (for financial gain of banks and certain industries), their influence in the former Palestine, and much more. Why, a conspiracy theorist (anti-Semite flavor) could even be forgiven for believing there might be something to all those rumors over the decades, nay, centuries, of outsize Jewish influence in the affairs of the (formerly) Christian West.
Jack Dobson #422812 September 6, 2024 8:24 am 13
See my earlier comment. There was latent fury over Cooper’s previous exploration of communist terror and mass murder and the Tribe’s chief role in the evil. A lot of this is pent up exploration of the Third Rail you mention.
RVIDXR #422882 September 6, 2024 11:31 am 21
My grandfather was an officer in WWII, at first he was in Japan but was later shifted over to Nuremberg during trials. He always visibly disgusted & had this air shame about him & sadness on his face whenever he was watching television & the subject of the war was brought up.He never had much to say about it, preferring not to discuss or divulge information. When I was being taught in school about WWII for the first time, particularly the Nuremberg trials I asked him how much of it he saw & if he had any insight about it. He said that it was disgraceful that we painted ourselves as heroes for our participation the war, that the Nuremberg trials in particular were a stain upon America & General Patton was right & he believed he was murdered. I had never seen him so upset before, whatever he saw at the trials he was clearly haunted by it.I didn’t want to push it any further, normally he was like a man made of stone but bringing that up evoked such an intense reaction in him so I dropped the subject. I was too young to really understand what all he said really meant but his reaction & the sheer contrast of what he said being so wildly out of sync of what school was teaching burned that conversation into my mind forever.I wish he had lived longer, cancer took him before I was mature enough to ever have a real conversation with him but then again I’m not sure he would’ve ever agreed to it because it so obviously pained him. Knowing what I know now I totally understand why he was like that, it’s one thing to read about it which certainly left an impression on me but experiencing it firsthand & participating in it, even if he really didn’t have a choice, no doubt scarred his soul.
Wiffle #422926 September 6, 2024 12:53 pm 10
My personal experience with the WWII generation was of that constant stoicism that you experienced. And then every once in a blue moon, you’d get bombshells like you had. Not everyone in that generation was philosopher, but there was sense of something deeper going on.My grandmother, when I was about 20 or so, was grocery shopping with me. She looked at pile of nuts, with some Brazil nuts in one section. She leaned over, pointed at them, and whispered to me what they used the call them when she was a girl. I’m sure this board can imagine the comment. Up until then I had never heard anyone even use the term, it was so forbidden in my world.But what struck me even then was the sense of a then 70+ old woman having to *whisper* an honestly harmless term from her childhood. It seems like much (although not all) of the WWII generation knew more than they let on. It was silent generation because were actively prevented from expressing themselves.
RVIDXR #422980 September 6, 2024 3:00 pm 15
“But what struck me even then was the sense of a then 70+ old woman having to *whisper* an honestly harmless term from her childhood. It seems like much (although not all) of the WWII generation knew more than they let on.”Honestly I think this may be a lot more extreme than we realize particularly after the supreme court brown decision or at least I assume this social self censorship really ramped up after that. That’s just me speculating of course but that was a big moment, having the government force diversity at gunpoint probably had a serious chilling effect on society. Then the cascade of civil rights, waves of immigrants, legislating against upon Whites just piled on amping up the effect.This is purely anecdotal but my grandfather was very liberal, not like an SJW but a “what’s right is right” principled liberal who was obsessed with justice in isolation. So when he said we fought the wrong side I don’t think he had a racial perspective to it but saw that we just handed a huge chunk of Europe to communism. Additionally I think he believed we were brutally unfair in the way we treated the germans in general & at Nuremberg. Many of them were just patriots trying to do right by their homeland & had nothing to do with concentration camps yet were treated with the utmost brutality.My grandmother on the other hand was hardcore, she always utterly despised jews & blacks, but especially the former as well as non Whites. She also viewed ad lesser virtually every Euro race except Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, Scottish & the various UK ethnic groups collectively but pretty much anyone who wasn’t a jew she could respect individually if they proved themselves to be honorable. She was not in the least bit silent about her views, she always made a point to ask someone their full name when meeting them so she could make a snap judgement & would compliment or not let her racial hostility be known. So if she hired a repairman for something & they had a polish last name for example she’d say “oh so you’re a pollack, I hope you’re an exception to the rule.” Outside of her being very open about her racial views she was fair & kind, even if it was a negro if someone was in need of help she wouldn’t hesitate to assist them, the exception to this was jews who she hated with a passion. Oh and she hated Catholics, that was another thing she absolutely despised, I’m throwing everything but the kitchen sink out there so might as well be thorough lol.I mention all this because while she was extreme even by her era’s standards she was basically how people pretend everyone was back then which was simply not true. When my mother told me that whe she was very young her mother, my grandmother, would routinely get yelled at for making racial comments & jokes about jews & blacks. My mother also told me & I personally witnessed my great great aunt who lived for a very long time (made it to nearly 100) would chastise my grandma for making taboo comments & jokes about race even though she fully agreed with her & she would do this even in private settings.So I really think the the whole WASP obsession with etiquette & not offending anybody which eventually evolved into, or perhaps simply was already, political correctness. I remember one Thanksgiving get together when I was a little kid & that particular year everyone, even the extended family who lived out of state showed up for it which was not the norm. Someone offered my grandmother money to help pay for the dinner & she said “you’re a guest in my house you shouldn’t have to pay & besides I’m not sone penny pinching jew.” Most everyone laughed but a few of the people, even the eldest which was most revealing, said something along the lines of “you shouldn’t say things like that!” Now keep in mind every single person in that room straight up hated jews & were basically crypto nazi sympathizers & all of them hated hollywood, the music industry & pornography for peddling smut & knew the jews controlled those industries. Like in your example they’d discuss it in hushed voices even when in private & only when they were really mad seeing some jewish influence did they vocally say anything. On the other hand almost all of them save for the most liberal leaning had no qualms about loudly complaining about negroes.I do think it’s a combination of things, negroes were so ridiculously bad & rage inducing & everyone shared the same views & they weren’t in their day to day lives so it’s not like there was any social repercussions for that. You didn’t get blacklisted for complaining about blacks back then but jews while not as powerful it enscknded in positions of influence & power like they are now but they were definitely were visible in society after WWII & were rapidly ascending.That plus the neve ending wars, just one after another & as I mentioned the never ending waves of immigration which while that doesn’t produce the same degree of negative effects of multiculturalism as negroes for example it’s still very divisive. Ethnic enclaves were being dissolved due to White flight & as that robert putnam study (I think it was his study) shows diversity doesn’t just lower societal trust & cohesion towards the other alien races but among people of the same race. So the silence aspect could very well be a result of that as well, think about it, you don’t make spicy jokes with strangers or people you don’t trust or aren’t familiar with ya know.Having said all that I do think a big factor probably the immigration thing & everything that brought with it as well as blacks & realtor block busting forcing an insane amount of White flight breaking down enclaves. Plus the immigration bringing organized crime leading to tbe expansion of state power & alcohol prohibition which no doubt decimated socialization during when it was in effect & probably had a long lasting effect of driving up racial hostility. Again, I know I mentioned it but it really cant be stated enough but the catholic protestant animosity affecting electoral outcomes was another aspect.One last thing, I witnessed all my older relatives fall into a state of depressed resignation, they were already like that since I can even remember but it increased with time. Just like how we’re all lamenting the loss of the country & seeing it degenerate they were too & like us they probably felt isolated & afriad to speak their mind unless it was someone they really really trusted. They didn’t have the internet back then to talk to like minded people to help cope & plus with the economic shifts leaving so many of them behind many got trapped & couldn’t White flight away.I know I just hit you with a scatterbrained reply but you really hit on something I hadn’t given much thought to as to the underlying reasons. I mean I’ve thought about it but only in the case of my grandma specifically & it always was just me being thankful she died young because I never would’ve wanted her to see the country like this. Sorry for the messy stream of consciousness post, I’ve been a bit out of it the last week or so, I got laid off work for s month & I’m going stir crazy & I have had the unfortunate timing of being in an insomnia cycle which has left with my thoughts to run wild during the sleepless nights. Hopefully what I wrote here had at least something interesting to add to to the discussion.
Steve #423037 September 6, 2024 8:29 pm 2
No worries.
ProZNoV #422798 September 6, 2024 7:47 am 20
The CIA has been suppressing authors (AJP Taylor, David Irving) and promoting/even writing narratives since WWII. I have a book that goes into this in detail but cant recall the name offhand. it’s amusing to think “the Russians” might be spending a few Shekels on Tim Pool. the reality is that the US routinely spending BILLIONS every year all over the planet doing the same. Also wrecking academia to support “the narrative “
RealityRules #422822 September 6, 2024 9:00 am 18
What really has them shrieking was the perfectly reasonable call for a Nuremberg trial for the ruling elite that is destroying not just the nations they rule over, but the natos they are supposed to serve. I thought that was an incredible development. This is the first time I have heard an explicit call for a serious accounting for the systematic destruction of an entire people across three continents. May this be the first of many such open calls and may the shrieks and howls only call further attention to the future lampost decorations.
Ride-By Shooter #422835 September 6, 2024 9:59 am 0
I can almost hear the shrieking in the USA after an abolitionist political party publishes its platform. In addition to their plan to abolish the USA and its obnoxious “States”, party members are calling for thenationof Israel and all “white” collaborators to pay reparations to the so-called goyim. Claimants are multiplying fast in this future scenario, and they’re citing Israel’s own morals as part of the basis for their claims no matter how long ago their people were harmed by Israel.So in this future we have the Egyptians, some Persians, Russians, Han, Germans, Hungarians, Poles, Czechs, and others clamoring for their pound of flesh. A group of “Black Lives” in North America who rant and rave about Elijah Muhammad say that the Jews dominated the slave trade throughout the Americas, therefore BL deserve all of the reparations. Even a few Tibetans are expressing interest given Israel’s prominent role in bringing Maoists to power in China.In India the ruling regime becomes wobbly under pressure from activists who insist that British imperialism was fundamentally Israelist all along. As in the Middle Ages, the indigenous people of Britannia were basically captives, more or less just like the Levites, Jews, and whatnot pretend that they were captives in Egypt. (Fyi, Egyptians will sue for both the massacre and for defamation) Uppity Hawai’ians are saying much the same thing as Indians about American imperialism on their islands while adding that they are taking back their islands from “our democracy” without a vote. They plan to evict all unfriendlyhapa, esp. those who won’t accept second class status as resident aliens with no political rights.
Ostei Kozelskii #422855 September 6, 2024 10:37 am 4
That is astounding. In the UK poor white sots are being locked up for far less.
MysteriousOrca #422987 September 6, 2024 3:26 pm 17
The extreme, hateful, abusive, fact-free shrieking from otherwise somewhat rational pundits towards Daryll Cooper (and Tucker) is depressing. It shows still how hypnotized in a trance modern America still is.It is also one more data point as to how – after capture of schools, the media, and control of the government – much modern America understands its history, identity, and goals through Jewish eyes. Things that much/most of USA 2024 seems to believe that is sees things from a Jewish perspective:* The holocaust was the central story of WW2* WW2 was a “good war”, with a good side and a bad side* Another situation like National Socialist Germany is the most important thing for the modern world to avoid, and anything and everything is permissible towards preventing that* Hitler is the apogee of human evil, and the National Socialists were generally pure demonic evil* The holocaust gives modern Jews blank check to be from criticism or pushback, especially as Jews or as a group* The Germans deserved the aerial bombing they got, as well as the millions of deaths and rapes they got after the war endedTo my eyes, normal white Americans should not endorse any of that.Some other ways that many American’s think that are from a Jewish POV:* The history of white America is morally negative and to be despised* Massive third world immigration to white countries should happen* Israel is a moral and legitimate nation, and America shares interests with themThe list is pretty endless, really.
The Wild Geese Howard #423024 September 6, 2024 7:14 pm 8
MO- Normies are totally brainwashed and controlled. Last night at happy hour I brought up the sailors that got rolled in Turkey and their mental gears totally seized up. I work with people who still buy into the Beer Flu narrative and isolation protocols.
RDittmar #422806 September 6, 2024 8:18 am 17
I remember when all the protests started against Israel on college campuses, the Left immediately tried to say the problems were caused by the right-wing. They were the true anti-Semites driving everything. The Con., Inc. crowd became obsessed with this whole thing, but at least they were mentioning the fact that the true driving force was probably the hundreds of thousands of unassimilable Muslims that the Left has imported to vote for them.Now though you see the typical cuck pivot to the Left’s framing as they use it to attack and try to purge people to their right like Tucker Carlson. And this is coming off a recent similar attempt to purge Candace Owens as well. They’re the true anti-Semites don’t you see and they have to be cast out of the “conservative” movement. If I were of a conspiratorial bent, I might start wondering whether the Conservative Industrial Complex’s recent over-the-top obsession with everything anti-Semitic was just to lay the groundwork for another Buckley-style purge of the right. Can’t have anyone who’s popular with the Dirt People embarassing us at a Georgetown dinner party, don’t you know.
Wiffle #422930 September 6, 2024 12:56 pm 5
There’s a difference in trying to purge in the middle of an empire, versus when it’s falling apart. The Internet, no matter how many controls they put on it, is also of a different character than broadcast TV.
David Wright #422801 September 6, 2024 8:00 am 17
The Pacific theater war or war with Japan hardly gets a mention anymore.death marches for sure but America’s early antagonism and sanctions, not so much. Depends who are the belligerents and who are the sacred victims I suppose. Early Ww2 movies showed quite a bit but now it’s mostly holocaust or valient Dunkirk type films.Decided to pull out my copy of Buchanan’s book after all of this. Never got half way through it when it gets too bogged down in strategic meetings and minor salient details that is hard for me to slog through. Felix is right though, Irving deserves a lot of credit that most know it is dangerous to acknowledge. Robot historians centuries from now will acknowledge his work possibly.
Owlman #422805 September 6, 2024 8:13 am 10
“The Pacific theater war or war with Japan hardly gets a mention anymore…Ok, let’s try this thought experiment. Historians reveal that FDR was a liar, that multiple secret surgeries were conducted aboard his friend Vincent Astor’s yacht and that his medical condition(s) were concealed from the American people when he ran for office.Note, not ‘ran for office in late 1943 (his 4th term) — but from the start. Then 2nd and 3rd terms while he was a cancer sufferer.He campaigned, like Wilson, that he would keep us out of the European war.Now, a peek at one government site, of all places Census dot guv:“The attack killed 2,403 U.S. personnel, including 68 civilians, and destroyed or damaged 19 U.S. Navy ships, including 8 battleships. The three aircraft carriers of the U.S. Pacific Fleet were out to sea on maneuvers. The Japanese were unable to locate them and were forced to return home with the U.S. carrier fleet intact.”We have the old technology, sitting ducks at Pearl — reminds me a bit of ‘Ukraine’ when considering the elimination of old hardware — see Finland’s great gift under the leadership of their former cocktail waitress PM of LAW grenade launchers. The 1960’s are calling…The American carriers are magically absent. A few ‘eggs’ are broken, and FDR gets his war, with all ‘the boys’ clamoring to sign up.Really? Does this hold water in hindsight??
Diversity Heretic #422830 September 6, 2024 9:45 am 16
The Roosevelt Administration definitely provoked Japan by the use of economic and financial sanctions. There’s a book calledBankrupting the Enemythat goes into this in great detail.I am, however, skeptical that FDR deliberately allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. The decisiveness of the aircraft carrier in the Pacific Theater was only evident in retrospect. Yes, there were “carrier admirals” in both the United States and Imperial Japanese navies. But most naval leaders expected the decisive arm to be the big-gun battleship. The Japanese built the very big-gunYamatoclass battleships. The United States limited itself toIowaclass battleships to fit through the Panama Canal, but it had plans at the beginning of the war to build a number ofMontanaclass battleships, that would have been the equivalent of the JapaneseYamatoclass. After the war began the sinking by the Japanese of the British battleshipsRepulseandPrince of Walesdemonstrated battleship vulnerability in the absence of air cover. But in December 1941 both FDR and the Navy leadership considered the loss of the battleships at Pearl Harbor to be a serious blow to the Navy’s capability.
Owlman #422887 September 6, 2024 11:37 am 8
Good post, am not here to dispute the points – just spitballing what we have to accept as part of the prevailing Pearl Harbor narrative. Let’s say we go with the cui bono approach: FDR gets his war, he had been fomenting with various acts of war, supplying Britain, etc.We accept the Japanese fleet was “lost” in the fog.We accept that the U.S. got lucky and the carriers were out of the harbor.Roosevelt gets his righteous war, and the few thousand men lost are replaced a hundred-fold, and willingly.Obsolete war machines gone, need to refill inventory? Check.Isolationist sentiments quashed with eager to war American men? Check.Carriers intact? Check.“But in December 1941 both FDR and the Navy leadership…”Were they one in the same at the time?
Wiffle #422931 September 6, 2024 12:59 pm 6
What has always struck me about Pearl Harbor is that we declared war within 24 hours. Nothing ever happens that fast in and with Congress – unless the deal was done and ready for an event like Pearl Harbor.
Ostei Kozelskii #422942 September 6, 2024 1:26 pm 7
There’s nothing strange about that. America was attacked, a big chunk of its Pacific fleet was sunk, and thousands of American sailers were killed. Declaration of war was an immediatefait accompli. There was virtually no dissent and not much to discuss.
Wiffle #422946 September 6, 2024 1:31 pm -1
When people are surprised by an event, they go into shock. Their first move is to make no move at all. They recover and then do. Declaring war within a business day is about being ready to be at war.
Ostei Kozelskii #422976 September 6, 2024 2:44 pm 3
Well, they were obviously not too shocked to cast a vote. The only thing shocking would have been if Americahadn’timmediately declared war.
Compsci #423006 September 6, 2024 5:54 pm 4
Actually, we all seem to forget. There was already a state of war existing—Japan had formally served it upon us. It was timed to proceed the attack on Perl, but was delayed until after/during the attack. I can imagine Japan’s Washington diplomat shitting his pants as he sought a meeting with our corresponding dignitaries to deliver the declaration while the military was engaged in active combat. Nonetheless, there was a formal state of war in existence before Congress meet the next day. What could we do at that point? Negotiate? Surrender? Ask for terms?
Compsci #423004 September 6, 2024 5:46 pm 3
Wiffle, I hear ya. However, we were a different people then. Hell, we still had spontaneous riots and lynchings—even in “Northern” States—when certain “types” were charged with certain anti-White crimes. People didn’t navel gaze. We were not feminized. White men, with “balls”, served in Congress. The entire nation had been hardened through 10 years of the Great Depression. Men were not pussies.
Ostei Kozelskii #423018 September 6, 2024 7:06 pm 4
Boy, that must’ve been a swell time to be an American.
Jeffrey Zoar #422961 September 6, 2024 2:11 pm 11
The Patriot Act being all teed up and ready to go was a lot more suspicious than the declaration of war against Japan. After Pearl, what else could they do?
Ride-By Shooter #422809 September 6, 2024 8:22 am 4
Robot historians centuries from now will acknowledge his work possibly Why wait centuries? Let’s imagine a regime “AI” system trained on the books of David Irving and other skeptical historians. Same project would train it with books about how to write good, clean code, at which point this simulated intelligence system would be on a path to rewrite its own code base without the favorite biases and prejudices of “our democracy”.
Ride-By Shooter #422816 September 6, 2024 8:33 am 9
Here’s more training material for the robotic historian. The essay is about the attack at Pearl Harbor. The author is some sort of communist iirc, but I don’t believe that this fact is germane to his argument. Eighty Years of Lies: President Franklin Roosevelt Told Public Pearl Harbor Was A Surprise Attack—However There Is Considerable Evidence Demonstrating Government Foreknowledge By Jeremy KuzmarovCovertAction MagazineDec. 7, 2021
Jeffrey Zoar #422819 September 6, 2024 8:50 am 10
Just like Russia’s SMO, the attack on Pearl Harbor was UNPROVOKED
Evil Sandmich #422821 September 6, 2024 9:00 am 3
It’s worth remembering that the Japs didn’t have to attack Pearl Harbor (and Hitler certainly shouldn’t have declared war on the U.S.). It always makes me groan when I see nominally pro-White people let their yellow fever makes excuses for Japan, as if FDR should have let Japan turn Australia and New Zealand into Imperial rape colonies.
jkloi #422826 September 6, 2024 9:37 am -7
Who cares about anglo crap colonies? They don’t share American values then or now Fuck the canadians too who serve the monarchy. The losers of the first american civil war fled to the anglo colony north anyways.
jkloi #422827 September 6, 2024 9:38 am -8
Wouldn’t care if the Chinese conquer Austrailia or New Zealand either.
Ostei Kozelskii #422857 September 6, 2024 10:42 am 5
Yeah, whatever you say there, Wang Chung. Now cut along to your moo shoo pork and your mahjong board.
Jkloi #422863 September 6, 2024 10:46 am 5
Honestly, after they showed their “western” values during covid, couldn’t tell the difference between a fucking kiwi and aussie and the commies, Japanese and nazis. Doesn’t matter who rules those totalitarian dumps and American lives were wasted “protecting” them.
Jkloi #422865 September 6, 2024 10:47 am 7
American lives were wasted everywhere enriching evil scum on the Hudson and Potomac.
Ostei Kozelskii #422905 September 6, 2024 12:08 pm 9
Everything the Aussies and Kiwis learned, they learned from America. But this is beside the point. Those people are white, and as such, have the potential for redemption. Many of them do, anyway. We must work for the unity of whites across the globe.
Salmon #422828 September 6, 2024 9:42 am 0
Neither of those things happened in a vaccuum, grandpa. I’ve yet to see Australia nor New Zealand actually reciprocate any of that kindness so I don’t particualrly see why not. They’re chinese rape colonies now. Wouldn’t have made much difference, and wouldn’t have harmed us in any way here.
Evil Sandmich #422843 September 6, 2024 10:10 am 5
grandpa I wish, but anyway, these are formal colonies of the GAE now, their sins are our own.
Compsci #422839 September 6, 2024 10:02 am 7
”Hitler certainly shouldn’t have declared war on the U.S.”No dog in this fight, but really? America was basically fighting Germany by suppling arms to Britain at that time—which was against the expressed wishes of a Congress that wished to stay out of the war. Japan was an ally of Germany and it was thought might be helpful in the war effort against America which was seen as inevitable given FDR in office. Japan at that time had dealt a severe blow to the US and looked to be correct in their judgement to strike first. America was on retreat in the South Pacific.There really was nothing to be gained by delaying a war that seemed inevitable.
Evil Sandmich #422841 September 6, 2024 10:09 am 4
How’d that work out for him?Compare Hitler’s take to Putin’s.
Compsci #423008 September 6, 2024 5:59 pm 3
Well Hitler lost. He’d have lost anyway once he invaded Russia he started a two front war. Putin has won, or don’t you subscribe to that view of his effort in Ukraine?
Steve #423036 September 6, 2024 8:28 pm 2
He’d have also lost had he just sat back and waited for Stalin to launch his invasion. He at least had a chance this way. Might have been the untermenschen thing that turned the tide. Americans rejected Christie’s tank innovations, so Germans assumed they must suck and wouldn’t improve the Soviet tanks to the level of the Panzers. But the T-34 stopped the Panzer IVs cold, much to Guderian’s surprise. Had the US taken the sloped armor for the Shermans, the Soviets probably wouldn’t have been able to espionage it fast enough, and the Battle of Moscow an Axis win.
Compsci #423076 September 7, 2024 11:58 am 1
Blame Patton for everything wrt Sherman’s. He personally went back to the US to examine the better tanks in production. He rejected them because of delays and lower production ability. He accepted that losing 6 to 1 Sherman’s against Panzers was acceptable as long as deliveries were not delayed. We made slightly less that 50k Sherman’s. A fantastic number at that time.The Sherman was reliable and fast, but lacked state of the art armor and was pathetically outgunned. The 6 – 1 losses are about what was recorded in the field, probably not known before the invasion.A side story. When I was a youth, my HS chemistry teacher was a WWII vet. His job after the invasion was to repair shot out Sherman’s dragged back to the rear. He described exactly how bad they were.Basically the armor took no hits, as in shots bouncing off, but drilled through the hull and sprayed liquified, molten steel into the tight quarters of the tank. This shredded all the crew.The bigger pieces were previously removed by ID and burial crews, but he was tasked with washing the remains out the bottom hatch door. He then filled in the hole with a welding rod (a non fix), then checked the basic equipment and replaced as needed, finally spraying a new coat of paint to cover up what damage remained.He admitted that these “refurbished” tanks were obvious and he suspects “creepy” for newly assigned crews. The class was fascinated, but that was before we were asked to line up for Vietnam and it simply seemed another world to us.
Owlman #422892 September 6, 2024 11:44 am 4
“…let Japan turn Australia and New Zealand into Imperial rape colonies.”This “rape” of Belgium, tiny Belgium,. the Huns and bayonetting infants .. goes back to the 1877 Russo-Turkish War, when those ebil Musselmen were … doing the same things in Bulgaria, to infants, that Saddam’s men were doing in Kuwait.All to get an emotional response, the term “rape” certainly gets mothers ready to become Gold Star Mothers.When one looks at the Japanese war effort, it is all about resources. The British ordered double tapping of their rubber trees, damn the effects on the future. Dutch oil, mineral resources were the goals of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.And just what did the victors offer up? Chinese labor exploited for the likes of Apple — pay no attention to the million plus killed by Mao. Economic exploitation is a very old game – West Vs. East.Rape? Whom has raped whom?
manc #422893 September 6, 2024 11:45 am 2
Read AJP Taylor’s _The Origins of the Second World War_ for a proper framing of German foreign policy goals in the 1930s. Hitler’s maneuvers, rooted in basic opportunism, were consistent with the foreign policy of the Second Reich and Weimar.
Zulu Juliet #422871 September 6, 2024 11:15 am 14
It’s uncertain if a myth can be debunked. It’s a myth after all. To the extent the attempt to debunk these myths have any relevance to us at all, it would be to stop immigration, and to stop meddling around the world.Immigration stopped being a boon after the country reached the West Coast. There were enough people to “multiply, replenish the earth and subdue it”. Immigration became a downright drag after 1965 when the nation stopped bringing in European stock. Immigration after 2000 promises to bring the death of country.Meddling around the world started with the Spanish American War, ironically about the same time no more immigration was needed. The idealists in Europe were horrified that American was becoming just another Empire, in the mold of the old country. The myth of WWII conditioned every generation from the Boomers on to consider sending the nation’s youth around the globe to fight on foreign soil to be a normal state of affairs. It is not, and never has been — Unless your an Empire.It is a better use of time and effort to drive those two truths home – Mass immigration from the third world is a cancer, and America is an Empire – than to try to debunk the myths of the past.
LineInTheSand #422883 September 6, 2024 11:32 am 4
The rejoinder to your persuasive post is that invoking the myth of WW2 is the argument ender when a person complains about immigration. If we don’t accept endless non-white immigration then we are Nazis, which according to the myth, is the worst thing possible. Ramzpaul has been hammering this point all week. For my part, I agree with Ramz, although people of good faith may see it differently.
Ben the Layabout #423032 September 6, 2024 7:50 pm 2
Strict limits on immigration, please!Yet one exemption that I’d favor:For menial work ‘tis with good reasonIt’s called Manuel Labor.
Jeffrey Zoar #422912 September 6, 2024 12:23 pm 10
Back when I was a civnat, even I wasn’t so dumb not to understand that America was an empire. It was pretty obvious, and at the time I thought it was curious that there wasn’t more acknowledgement of the fact. However, my mistake was in believing that the empire served the nation, rather than the other way around, and it took me a while longer to see that.Lately in the regime’s media I see more tacit, bordering on explicit acknowledgment of this imperial state of affairs. If we as dissidents are to gain any ground on this point (I don’t know if that’s really possible) it should IMO not be to point out that it is an empire (so what if it is?) but to point out who it serves and why, and from whom it parasitically leeches.
Wiffle #422928 September 6, 2024 12:55 pm 6
“my mistake was in believing that the empire served the nation, rather than the other way around, and it took me a while longer to see that.” If the GAE had ever served America, we would have collected the taxes from our tributes. No nation based empire has ever put military outposts on foreign soil without collecting taxes to pay for them, plus some. The US was just a resource and convenient home base.
LineInTheSand #422939 September 6, 2024 1:21 pm 6
We never got that Iraqi oil that the left said was our motivation for the invasion. Maybe the actual motivation was that Saddam financed suicide bombers in Israel…
Bloated Boomer #423058 September 7, 2024 4:35 am 2
America is stealing oil from occupied Syriaright now. Where’s it going then?
Ostei Kozelskii #422952 September 6, 2024 1:37 pm 13
In yet another of life’s little ironies, before the advent of the GAE, Leftists (viz Noam Chomsky) condemned empires and imperialism without reservation and with a great deal of gusto. Now that their Leftist empire is raging across the globe, firing purple surface-to-surface missiles shaped like dildos at wedding parties, all in furtherance of perversity and diversity, imperialism is suddenly peachy keen.
Maxda #422800 September 6, 2024 7:58 am 14
I’ve long thought Churchill (along with FDR) was currently the most overrated guy in history. I was laughing as Cooper described him as a drunken screw-up and possible psychopath. His career was a series of disasters of his own making.
Citizen of a Silly Country #422808 September 6, 2024 8:21 am 16
As a person, Churchill was a very weird dude. He also went deep into debt and was bailed out by you know who, and thus did their bidding afterward – despite his warning about Jewish influence when he was young. Just an awful human being.
Marko #422815 September 6, 2024 8:30 am 5
I did not know that he played with little toy soldiers
Diversity Heretic #422832 September 6, 2024 9:51 am 24
Churchill was complex but the debt aspect is very interesting and troubling. I remember reading a book about Churchill’s finances by an investment advisor. He said that he had never had a client as reckless with his finances as Churchill had been. It’s rather considtent with Churchill’s invasion of Turkey at Gallipoli and his utterly hare-brained idea to invade Europe through the Balkans. The biggest irony for me is that fighting Germany was a major factor in the eventual collapse of the British Empire, which Churchill wanted desperately to preserve. Yet today he’s lionized!
Pass Line #423015 September 6, 2024 6:56 pm 2
It ran in the family. Winston was only the most famous to have gambling and debt problems.
3g4me #422840 September 6, 2024 10:03 am 5
If what I’veread has been correctly attributed to him, Churchill did come up with some brilliant bon mots, though.
Ostei Kozelskii #422859 September 6, 2024 10:44 am 4
Not only that, but he was one helluva writer.
Owlman #422895 September 6, 2024 11:47 am 6
Never mentioned a giant massacre in his volumes. Why not?
Owlman #422894 September 6, 2024 11:46 am 8
Drunks are often funny.
Steve #423001 September 6, 2024 5:05 pm 2
“…some brilliant bon mots, though.” Huh. I did not know that, and I’m a big fan of chocolates.
Ostei Kozelskii #423023 September 6, 2024 7:12 pm 4
Sure, sure. Churchill was a master chocolatier. Tops in his field in the UK. And whenever he popped across the Channel to Belgium, they were much more interested in his recipes for fondant and raspberry granache than his views on the Krauts.
Ostei Kozelskii #422846 September 6, 2024 10:18 am 12
Leftist revisionism–holy and sanctified. Rightwing revisionism–burn the blasphemer at the stake!
MikeCLT #422799 September 6, 2024 7:53 am 11
I am surprised no one has mentioned it, but Martyr Made has the same opinion of Churchill as Barack Obama. Granted it is for different reasons, but both consider him a villian.
Barnard #422804 September 6, 2024 8:11 am 17
One of the funniest parts of the whole episode was when the narrative defenders got worked into a lather enough to post things like a picture of Churchill with “this is my politics” under it. People would respond with quotes from Churchill on race and immigration. It shut them up quick.
Felix Krull #422818 September 6, 2024 8:43 am 19
Yes. Three weeks back, the libs were all about Churchill being a racist, evil colonizing warmonger, now he’s the savior of muh democracy.
Ben the Layabout #423014 September 6, 2024 6:56 pm 3
Whatever his flaws, Churchill was infamous for his biting humor. I don’t know if he too was a layabout, but this one was somewhat applicable to my life: (approx.) “Saving money is a wonderful thing, particular if one’s parents have done it for one.”
Jack Dobson #422831 September 6, 2024 9:49 am 4
BBC identifies Black Lives Matter as Nazi front group: Black Lives Matter protest: Why was Churchill’s statue defaced? (bbc.com)
Lakelander #422959 September 6, 2024 1:52 pm 10
I’m hoping this conversation will eventually shift to eviscerating the legacy of FDR and all the soviet spies (Harry Dexter White) and German genocide agitators (Morgenthau) in his administration. I’m hoping that would lead to an equally entertaining conniption fit amongst the lackeys and gatekeepers.
NateG #422878 September 6, 2024 11:28 am 10
Churchill and Zelensky are very similar, both are drama queens seeking media attention and know little or nothing about warfare.Churchill made some very ignorant mistakes during his career. Antwerp 1914, Gallipoli, attempting to bomb USSR after they invaded Finland, sending two Battleships with no cover to China and making it public, sending an unguarded supply ship column around Norway and losing most of the ships, attacking the French fleet in Algeria, Dieppe, etc. There’s probably more I can’t think of.He also favored chemical warfare, and would have wiped out Europe if he had his way, because Germany would have retaliated with chemicals that were probably as devastating as a nuclear bomb. Interesting that Hitler never condoned chemicals to be used on the battlefield.Churchill has an army of media surrounding and protecting him, much like Zelensky.
Jannie #422888 September 6, 2024 11:38 am 5
“know little or nothing about warfare”Churchill certainly made mistakes (like Gallipoli, which he never lived down in the eyes of the British public) and would have made more had he not been restrained by his staff (like Alan Brooke). However, he did have substantial military experience in Cuba (as a military observer), India and Sudan (as a soldier, and in Sudan participating in one of the last battlefield cavalry charges), South Africa (in the Boer War, where he observed first-hand the costly errors of British generals and realized they were not all-knowing or competent) and WW1 (in the trenches, where he was almost killed on several occasions).Churchill was known – and heavily criticized – for exposing himself to danger. Even during the Blitz, when he stayed in London and would go out onto the rooftop to watch the action.
Maxda #422910 September 6, 2024 12:19 pm 6
Churchill and Zelensky have the same strategy for winning wars – ceaseless propaganda to get the Americans directly involved. Without it, Churchill would be 0-2.
Ostei Kozelskii #422947 September 6, 2024 1:31 pm 7
You can’t propagandize the propagandizers. Zelensky isn’t twisting the GAE’s arm. The GAEwantedthis proxy war against Russia.
Maxda #422970 September 6, 2024 2:28 pm 2
Sure – but no American divisions taking on the Russians yet.
The Wild Geese Howard #423021 September 6, 2024 7:10 pm 4
Nate- If I recall correctly, Hitler was very against chemical weapons because he had at least one up close and personal experience with them in the WW1 trenches.
Steve #423039 September 6, 2024 8:52 pm 5
Hitler was exposed to Mustard Gas during WW I, that’s why. It took him weeks to get the full use of his lungs back and by his own admission, it haunted him.
Abelard Lindsey #422823 September 6, 2024 9:13 am 10
The reprint of that Chicago Tribune article where the Japanese offered to surrender unconditionally in January of 1945 along with this interview makes me wonder what else they have lied about WW2. Since they have lied about WW2, what else have they lied about? I read Darryl Cooper’s article and found it quite convincing.
Compsci #422849 September 6, 2024 10:24 am 11
So everything printed—at whatever time and by whomever—that agrees with you, or generally contradicts accepted narrative is ipso facto correct? Sigh.The Japanese were torn wrt unconditional surrender and the major sticking point was the fate of the Emperor. The allies would simply not signal plainly that the Emperor would not be held accountable and shamefully tried and executed as a (major) “war criminal”. For a “god king”, this was not acceptable to the military wing of Japanese leadership. The war in Europe was over and the German leadership was being rounded up and imprisoned for trial. This was plainly noted by the Japanese. The Emperor finally broke the deadlock and instructed the military to stand down and accept surrender.McArthur found the Emperor useful in his occupation/reconstruction efforts and kept him alive and free as a symbol for the populace to rally around. The Emperor was in essence demoted under McArthur from god-king status as well. With the Emperor as his front man, McArthur refashioned Japanese governance. For years, McArthur simply handed down bills to be passed by a subservient Japanese Diet to enact with the Emperor’s tacit support.
george 1 #422869 September 6, 2024 10:59 am 3
Nearly all of the important generals advised Truman not to use the bombs. After the Hiroshima bomb MacArthur is reported to have strongly opposed the second bomb. He advised Truman that the leadership in Japan was in disarray and that they were seeking to surrender. He asked Truman to give them more time. It seems Truman wanted to impress the Soviets.
Ostei Kozelskii #422906 September 6, 2024 12:12 pm 6
“Nearly all of the important generals advised Truman not to use the bombs.” Your source for this?
Steve #422984 September 6, 2024 3:15 pm 3
Don’t know that it was most top brass, but sure was a lot of them. A lot of these objections came years later. Granted, they couldn’t object against the lawful orders of the CIC, but still… Truman’s hand was forced. Soviet tanks were racing to take Manchuria and possibly Korea to get harbors in the East China Sea. “We” knew at least some of the Japanese power was looking for surrender terms, they wanted Stalin to negotiate for them to save face. And Stalin didn’t want them surrendering before he took possession of “his” harbors.
Compsci #423003 September 6, 2024 5:34 pm 5
There was only one “term” needed for surrender at that time—hold harmless the Emperor. Yes indeed, at Potsdam the Allies agreed to unconditional surrender and that none of them would accept surrender by themselves nor establish their own terms.Perhaps this was Stalin playing 3-D chess and an attempt to allow for his armies to take more territory. Who knows? However, the Americans did know through their channels that the Emperor’s safety *was* the holdup. The Americans broadcasted their call for surrender at least a couple of times—each time changing wording such to attempt to make the Emperor’s fate more vague—while still attempting to remain under the Potsdam Allies agree agreement.As to the atom bomb drop, that’s a load of deconstructionist dribble spread during and after the Cold War. Cause we were all afraid of Armageddon and needed a tearful example of our horrible responsibility for such a possibility. Show me evidence of just one general who said we should not use the “bomb” because it was too terrible! Hell, these guys hated and feared the Jap’s as much as anybody.The US throughout WWII was casualty *adverse*, both in the European theater and the Pacific. However, in the Pacific, we had proportionally *more* casualties than in the European theater. The Japanese home Islands were preparing to meet the invasion forces with a civilian resistance composed of the entire populace. Truman had just sat through a couple of island invasions where entire divisions of Marines simply did not return. Truman and I’m pretty certain the Joint Chiefs had a “screw that” mentality.Japan had experienced B-29 bomber attacks in the hundreds on large cities. Now imagine what they thought when we sent *one* B-29, with *one* bomb and removed *one* entire city! Then 3 days later we repeated the performance! It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that nothing less than the extinction of their entire race was in to offing if they did not act fast.And so they did. Read the address to the nation announcing surrender by Hirohito. He specifically mentions the atom bomb as being such a terrible weapon as to force the end of the conflict—because, well, extinction.As most people here acknowledge, “war is hell” it should be avoided, but failing that, it should be won—by any means possible.
Steve #423040 September 6, 2024 8:53 pm 0
Eisenhower’s memoirs: “I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly, because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives.”Leahy supposedly opposed it before hit happened, which is possible, I suppose. Truman would have asked his Chief of Staff for advice. MacArthur, LeMay, Halsey, and I believe Nimitz are all on record after the fact, LeMay just one month later, shortly after the surrender document was signed. Before? Who knows? I don’t know of any records they might have made. Though that could certainly be Aid and Comfort to the Enemy, which is a pretty dire thing in wartime, which I’d bet influenced LeMay’s timing.
Compsci #423075 September 7, 2024 11:28 am 2
And how did any of these generals truly know of the destruction of an atom bomb when only one was detonated in the middle of a desert a few weeks before—and to my knowledge, none witnessed the blast?“After the fact” is the key phrase here. None of these guys knew, nor do I believe protested because of the “terrible-ness” of the atom bomb. All of this is revisionist, and none of this mentions that Japan was preparing for invasion and enlisting/training the entire populace as a “home guard” army, nor does it take into account the “terrible-ness” of the alternative which would be to stand off and starve the entire population to death.There is more evidence for great reluctance—to the point of insubordination—wrt the bombing of Dresden 10 weeks before the surrender of Germany. Which had absolutely no strategic purpose and could only be described as pure murderous vengeance on the part of Churchill—which of course, Eisenhower must have signed off on. How are his (self serving) memoirs on that matter?
james wilson #423464 September 10, 2024 1:32 pm 0
Eisenhower was opposed, believing it unnecessary. My father, a veteran of Okinawa, and the coming million American casualties, disagreed.MacArthur was opposed for different reasons. The glory hound wanted his ego satiated, again.Nimitz was opposed, until Okinawa finally got his full attention.Japan had the resources to feed forty percent of its population. Starvation and dissease would cull thirty or forty million Japanese in the next year, but Truman did us all a favor under the circumstances in which he was given to understand. He was a serious poker player, and reader of Shakespeare. In his collection is underlined–There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and miseries.Thus conscience makes cowards of us all.While they still lived you could not find a girl of thirteen or above not grateful for the sudden ending of the war. They had been drilled in their duty for the coming invasion and it was a nightmare.
GunnerQ #422875 September 6, 2024 11:22 am 13
Remember that all politics are local. The domestic American context to WW2 were the New Deal efforts to impose socialism. There was stiff resistance and economic strife, until WW2 came along and “the wartime economy” entrenched the New Deal. Had the war been over too soon, it might have been repealed. One glance at the explosion of FedGov’s size & spending after Pearl Harbor shows how useful WW2 was to USA’s domestic tyrants. We never went back.
Pozymandias #423002 September 6, 2024 5:29 pm 9
Back during the height of the Coof madness I decided to follow a couple Substack writers, Alex Berenson and Jonathan Shacktel (probably spelled that wrong). This choice was really just because both seemed to manage to be Covid skeptics but were overall pretty much center-Right Establishment guys. I suppose originally I was just interested in them because I still hoped that somehow there was a way to argue the Covidians back to sanity without necessarily getting them totally Red Pilled.This morning in my email I see that BOTH of these guys launched into a Tucker-is-now-Hitler tirade. Well, I think Berenson is the former NYT writer so, like everyone in NYC, is probably a Jew or Jew-adjacent. Not sure about the other guy. It was a nice window on just how much real critical thinking the Establishment permits you to engage in while still keeping your “Good Person Card”. One of them even talked about how Tucker was “playing footsie with Nazis”. Seriously, are these guys in Junior High? I’d been meaning to unsubscribe from their feeds from lack of interest in most of what they talked about these days but now I’m motivated.
Ben the Layabout #423035 September 6, 2024 8:26 pm 8
Yes, Berenson is Jewish. Early in the pandemic I was a fan, even a paying sub. I bought a couple of his books. At some point I burned out on him and dropped my subscription, paid or not. I can’t recall the exact reason I left, but I do recall something about Jew Jew Jew. This was well before last Oct. 7 so it must have been some lesser affront The Tribe suffered. Severian’s characterization of them is so apt: The Least Self-Aware People in History (TLSAPIH, pronounced “slappy”)
houska #423038 September 6, 2024 8:47 pm 7
Prior to 2016(Trump), I listened to Glenn Beck.Prior to 2020(Covid), I read Steve Sailer.Prior to 2023/2024(Oct 7, Tucker-Cooper), I read InstaPundit.
Hemid #423051 September 7, 2024 12:38 am 2
You’ll really enjoy Derb’s show today.
LineInTheSand #422864 September 6, 2024 10:46 am 9
In 1920, Churchill used the victory of the Bolsheviks to discuss his thoughts about the chosen.https://archive.org/details/WinstonChurchillZionismVsBolshevismStruggleForTheSoulOfTheJewishPeople1920 First, although we are not allowed to notice today, “With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are …” Then he pleads for support from the good ones, the ones loyal to the countries in which they reside, like England. We can see how well that worked out for England. Trump is the latest example. “The most powerful lobby in — in this country, by far, was Israel and Jewish people.” He vows to restore them.
Maxda #422908 September 6, 2024 12:15 pm 2
Except Stalin, not Lenin, was the only notable exception.
Ostei Kozelskii #422954 September 6, 2024 1:38 pm 2
Lenin was only 1/4 Finkelish.
Maxda #422969 September 6, 2024 2:27 pm 3
Close enough – they conversed in Yiddish when they did not want to be overheard.
thezman #422973 September 6, 2024 2:41 pm 5
According to the Soviet archives, it was his great grandfather who was Jewish. His name was Moshe Blank. This was only discovered near the end of Lenin’s life when his sister was researching the family for the official biography. Most likely, Lenin never knew. Throughout his life he was critical of Jews, but not an antisemite.
Ostei Kozelskii #422988 September 6, 2024 4:07 pm 9
Hm. For most of his life Lenin drew a Blank on the subject…
Diversity Heretic #422949 September 6, 2024 1:32 pm 7
I’ve always felt that the most revolutionary aspect in the immediate aftermath of American independence was the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, enacted under the Articles of Confederation. It established the right of new states to enter the Union as fully the equivalent of the existing states. That’s really quite an extraordinary idea–why should the existing states not want to maintain the new territories as de facto colonies, even if they allowed the inhabitants of those areas to have the rights and privileges of existing citizens of the state? The fact that the member of Congress under the Articles of Confederation recognized that the United States could not be governed from a central location and that inhabitants of newly-settled areas would need their own systems of governments goes a long way, in my opinion, to explain the success of the United States. The system broke down, obviously, in 1861. But the idea that people of different states need different systems of government remained central to US organization until the 1960s, and we’re seeing the sad results of its decline today.
Ostei Kozelskii #422979 September 6, 2024 2:56 pm 2
Good point. And the dissolution of federalism is in direct proportion to the zealotry of the Left. Now liberals and Leftists have always been a bit enthusiastic, but with the advent of the New Left in the second half of the sixties, partisan conviction ramified into unhinged mania. And when minds are so thoroughly addled by ideological toxins, no picayune abstractions such as federalism are to be respected. They are to be mown down.
Steve #422993 September 6, 2024 4:27 pm 2
It wasn’t a big deal under the Articles because they required unanimous consent. If even a single State dissented, it didn’t pass. Who cares whether they are given equivalent power if they can’t force your state to do anything? It’s really hard to sufficiently stress how disastrous was the change to majoritarianism in the Philadelphia Coup of 1787.
Tars Tarkas #422851 September 6, 2024 10:26 am 7
These critics should check out the podcasts. He’s a raging SJW. The Jim Jones podcasts (there are like 6 multi-hour episodes) start with an hour long breakdown of how Mestizos are killing blacks and ethnically cleansing them from LA. Then it moves on to how evil whites are. After that, it veers into what a hero Jim Jones was for all his SJW efforts in the 50s and 60s. This guy is a raging leftist.
LineInTheSand #422896 September 6, 2024 11:51 am 3
While I haven’t listened to Cooper’s podcasts yet, a doctrinaire “raging SJW” wouldn’t have tweeted (Cooper is MartyrMade):https://x.com/DavidCornDC/status/1831076552630743143 It’s hard to see how someone who is anti-white would have tweeted that.
Tars Tarkas #422935 September 6, 2024 1:18 pm 10
I can only go by the few of his podcast episodes I listened to. I listened to I think the first 2 episodes of the Jim Jones series plus part of the 3rd and the first of the Palestine/Israel episodes. All were bursting with SJWism. Endless crying about how mean white people are/were to Jews and blacks and how even the mestizos hate the blacks for some unknown reason nobody can figure out (must be the blackness in their evil hearts). He even brought Emmett Till into them. He also brought up the “freedom riders” and the “Passive resistance” at Woolworth’s. All the standard lies too where the mean old Southerners were picking on the heroes of the story for no good reason other than their black hearts and rotting souls.Who knows….maybe these podcasts were just about to get better when I stopped listening. Maybe 5 minutes later he was about to say “what I’ve just told you is the official narrative and it’s a pack of lies, exaggerations and 1/2 truths” But I just don’t have another 25 hours of my life I’m willing to devote to them. I was only able to listen to as much as I did because I was doing something else that didn’t require my mental focus. These things are really long, even if you listen to them at 1.5 speed.
RVIDXR #422934 September 6, 2024 1:18 pm 8
“an hour long breakdown of how Mestizos are killing blacks and ethnically cleansing them from LA.”An old friend of mine who was in the navy stationed in Cali met several mexicans who joined up because they got boat loads (unintentional pun, ha) of benefits because they were really ramping up the diversity mandates trying to brown the military when obama got in. A few of them were from Compton which he was surprised by because that was such a famously black city, key word being was. It’s not nearly as black anymore, I just now looked it up & it’s apparently only 25% black currently. It probably is be more because they have multi race listed as 19% of the city but even assuming they’re all mulattos that’s still a massive drop in the black population. Not really surprising given even intra-racial hostility is a universal phenomenon over things like religion & politics but full blown racial aliens who are also savages who happen to be heavily involved in criminal gangs hostility is of course going to cause violent conflict.No surprise that the side with a virtually infinite supply of recruits crossing the border especially ones who don’t have a habit of murdering each their own in droves is dominating the other. The law enforcement in LA county is also identical, it’s gotten so out of hand the FBI is trying to crack down on the mexican dominated police forces & sheriffs who racially target blacks.So these guys told my friend that the mexican gangs go around doing drive bys & go out of their way to target black girls because black girls = black babies. A few years after he told me about this he sent me a news article about how the mexican gangs started firebombed a section 8 housing project because it was basically all black residents.They joked about how mexicans are doing the jobs Whites wont do, said the name compton is an acronym which means “city of mexicans pulling triggers on niggers” & talked about how in prison the White gang bangers united with the various latino gangs against the blacks because everybody hates them.The funny part about this is, for the most part, the mainstream leftist media won’t report on this because it doesn’t jive with the whole brown utopia narrative they’re obsessed with pushing.One thing about this which is this is also an element within the military to a degree as well & it’s not just the handouts that these mexican gang bangers join up, they also do it to train to be better killers. That’s gotten quite a few regular police murdered because they’re not only not trained to deal with someone who has such extensive combat training but that’s just the cost of diversity which as we all know is our greatest strength. They’re also smuggling weapons out onto the black market many if not all of which end up get sold to mexican cartels & the like.The same thing is happening in the military bases in black majority areas, I don’t know the name of it but the base in or near Atlanta Georgia routinely has massive amounts of military gear stolen & smuggled out. When you have nearly the entire hierarchy of a military base made up of bantu not surprisingly whole place becomes one big looting operation. If you ever wondered how the mexican cartels get their hands on military equipment like grenades, RPGs, night vision & advanced radio spy equipment & the like that’s a big contributing factor. The media bitches about civilian weapons getting in their hands, which obama’s ATF famously handed to them in huge numbers & that’s actually still happening right now, speaking of, but they never mention how diversity is arming them with way more dangerous ordnance.That also explains why that muslim negro was able to waltz into a navy military base & rack up a huge kill count when that terrorist attack happened years back. It was funny how the government & media were so surprised that staffing a military base with 65IQ african tribals had such a hard time stopping a lone wolf from wreaking havoc in a place where everyone is armed with full auto M16s. Speaking or greatest strength that asian cuck, who has no business being in our military who somehow has a huge wall of honor stripes on his chest who headed up that base, wringed his hands worrying about how that terror attack may make diversity look bad. That was the top priority, not the people who were murdered, not the severe incompetence that allowed such a thing to occur but diversity. God forbid people think it’s a bad idea to let an african muslim who’s name sounds like ooga boogallah bin boogalo be recruited to an organization that’s in charge of national security.Goes without saying but if WWIII pops off it’s going to be quite the clusterfuck given the current demographics of the military. Everything I just mentioned was from well over a decade ago before we started stuffing the armed forces with women & trannies & designed jet flight suits for pregnant women.Not really tangibly related to what you posted but it reminded me of all this & I found it interesting & darkly comedic so thought I’d share, hopefully you found it at least somewhat entertaining to read about. If not I apologize for wasting your time with this tangent, it’s not to often I get to bring this up so any chance I get I always do because I legitimately find it funny due to sheer absurdity of it all.Going back on topic I didn’t / don’t know who this cooper guy is, never heard of him but it’s good to know that about him. You saved me from looking into his other work so thanks for that. Given what you said about him I’m kind of surprised he would even be discussing this subject & not be totally full of shit but I guess it’s one of those broken clock situations. Many of Tucker’s picks for interviews are puzzling to put it lightly, he could’ve chosen any number of people who could’ve shared the same information who isn’t a leftist but that seems par for the course with him. What I especially don’t get is why he does this when he’s not with fox news anymore, he can do whatever he wants yet chooses someone like this… I just don’t get it.
The Wild Geese Howard #423020 September 6, 2024 7:08 pm 4
Wasting our time? Dude, your post was epic and highly relevant to the topics we discuss here!
RVIDXR #423048 September 6, 2024 9:54 pm 2
Thanks man.
RVIDXR #423087 September 7, 2024 4:56 pm 2
I just picked up on what your username is, if that’s what I think it is (Fatal Fury) that’s awesome. I don’t know how I didn’t notice it before, I’ve totally been out of it lately due to a nasty bout of insomnia. There’s a neighborhood cat I feed I nicknamed Geese Howard, got all my neighbors calling him that even though they have no clue what its referencing- long story on how that came to be lol.
The Wild Geese Howard #423094 September 7, 2024 9:01 pm 3
RVIDXR- You are spot on about my username brother! The Wild Geeseportion is there because it was released in my birth year. Geese Howardis there because he’s one of my favorite characters in theFatal Fury/Art of Fighting/King of Fightersseries.
RVIDXR #423098 September 8, 2024 4:00 am 3
Hah, that’s awesome man, he’s a badass character & actually there’s some pretty right wing funny memes involving him. My particular favorite is one where he’s in a corporate setting sitting on a throne with some goons on either side of him & all wearing suits. Below the caption says “Yeah, we racist, keep scrolling” lol. I’m pretty sure it’s a promotional image for fatal fury with a caption slapped on it but it’s funny nonetheless. I’d link it but I can’t find it, ya know, google, I’ve seen it posted on twitter a few times & on daily stormer but search engines are basically worthless nowadays unfortunately so you’ll just have to take my word for it. Every time I see him or his name that’s all I think about in addition to the neighborhood cat I feed lol.Edited to add in the 90s where I lived we used to have a place that was a indoor/outdoor park, outdoors was go karts, put put & batting cages & the like. Inside was all sorts of games, shoot the hoops & every arcade imaginable. The owner imported *every* arcade known to man including Japanese tekken arcades, SNK arcades & even had doubles of KOF that had bootleg hacked versions & a VIP room where if you were cool with the owner he’d let you go back after hours & play on his neo geo which basically nobody had because it was so damn expensive. Back then most arcades had street fighter & mortal kombat & that was basically it so that place was amazing.I miss the 90s so much.
Tars Tarkas #423069 September 7, 2024 10:18 am 2
Tucker’s choice of who he interviews is pretty easy. He has very typical views for an elite journalist. He is a liberal through and through. His criticisms of woke are largely liberal. His criticism of DIE is based on Mr Kang’s racial blindness standard, not a pro-White standard. What he doesn’t say is as revealing as what he does say. He also does the whole ‘we should be able to talk to each other’ routine. While I wouldn’t say Tucker is an enemy, he definitely is not on our side.It’s not like I’m asking a lot of Tucker. Tucker is a wealthy elite. I don’t expect or even want him to sound like one of us. IMHO, what he should be doing is using his status to undermine the liberal order in a subtle way. But he doesn’t try to undermine the liberal order, he tries to strengthen it.
RVIDXR #423086 September 7, 2024 4:49 pm 2
“He has very typical views for an elite journalist. He is a liberal through and through.”“I don’t expect or even want him to sound like one of us. IMHO, what he should be doing is using his status to undermine the liberal order in a subtle way. But he doesn’t try to undermine the liberal order, he tries to strengthen it.”Having read your other reply in this thread I think what you’ve said here may actually be an understatement lol.Your first comment made this guy look really bad but what you revealed in the second reply to the other guy? Holy shit.I always love telling that story about my friend in the navy and am always looking for any excuse to tell it because it’s just so crazy & funny to me & most people don’t know about half of that stuff & most find it interesting. But now I kind of wish I didn’t because this is some heavy shit imo & I definitely didn’t want to wash out what you said with some random stories & factoids. Thankfully the most important comments, yours, are at the very top so that’s good.Tucker used to tear people like guy this apart years ago when leftists still used to come on his show before realizing it was bad optics because they always got wrecked.I was just about to say how the hell does Tucker go from having Charles Murray on to having a guy who unironically brings up Emmitt Till but then I remembered Charles was a guest when Tucker was on Fox!Almost makes me wonder if being on Fox made Tucker feel like or perhaps straight up forced him to make himself come off as more right leaning. I mean like I said originally there’s no shortage of people who could’ve went on his show & intelligently & accurately discussed this topic but a negro lover who wrings his hands over spics wiping out negroes & also hates white people?I really haven’t paid attention to Tucker since he left fox for the most part & even before then mostly just saw clips & I’m now thinking that those clips were very selective giving a false impression about him. Only thing I specifically watched of his was his putin interview which I actually liked but you summed it up perfectly.I mean I never trusted him, he wanted to join the CIA, he has deep ties to New England which is eternal anglo central & he looks longingly at brown people who like the constitution the same way a dog looks at a fresh cut of meat but still… I just never would’ve imagined him un-critically interviewing such a anti White savage worshipper like this cooper guy.How you described him makes sense, I guess I was lulled into thinking he wouldn’t veer so far into blatantly subversive territory like this. From what I saw of him he was more of a lie by omission & fawn over “based” brown people type of guy.Its funny because my friends who always want to see the best in people always said I was always too negative on him & it wasn’t like I didn’t give him credit where it was due but I always maintained he would never take our side. At the same time though I never expected him to go this far in the opposite direction but reading your reply here I guess it makes sense, he probably sees that hostility towards Liberalism itself is growing & now feels the need to redirect that energy.I now wonder if he’s gonna do the whole “real Liberalism hasn’t been tried” angle & push the myth that if those bad historical people were really true liberals instead of corrupt we’d be living in MLK’s dream right now instead of clownworld.Maybe I’m just being cynical but in my experience it’s better to err that way than be overly optimistic & I think just demonstrated why with my first reply to you, if I was more cynical about him I wouldn’t haven been so caught off guard by Tucker doing this.Anyway good & informative comments man, we can’t never have enough vigilant people like yourself around in this space especially in the dark days to come.
Alzaebo #423050 September 6, 2024 10:22 pm 6
Seemingly unrelated, yet, it is central to the discussion: How in hades did “racism” become a bad thing?To not defend one’s people, and worse, to dishonor one’s ancestors, have somehow become the highest of virtues. I don’t believe it came from the Civil War revisionism; it came not even from WW1, when the term was crafted by Hirshfield and Trotsky. No, anti-racism as a value came from WW2.It carries the implied whisper: “If white people stand up for themselves, well,you know what happens…” Long after the meal is over, the stain remains.
Mr. Blank #423049 September 6, 2024 10:18 pm 6
Am in the weird position here of being extremely open to revisionist Civil War history but not very open to revisionist World War II history.A problem for me with the “Churchill was bad, actually” idea is that I’m old enough (Gen X) to have spoken directly, at length, with a lot of (American) World War II vets, and they pretty much all thought Churchill was a hero. Maybe they were wrong, and maybe some future generation more removed from it all can make more objective judgments — I don’t know. All I know is it’s pretty hard to dissent from the received wisdom when you’ve actually looked in the eyes of the guys who were there, and heard it from their own lips. If THEY thought Churchill was a hero, I don’t feel very comfortable saying they were wrong — particularly since many of the things those same guys warned me about have since come to pass.As an aside, though: While none of the World War II vets I spoke to growing up would qualify as “Holocaust deniers” or “revisionists” or what have you, none of them saw “the Holocaust” as a central part of what they’d been through. Even guys who told me about seeing concentration camps firsthand didn’t think that was the most important part of the story. One guy who’d spent time guarding German POWs told me when the reports of Nazi atrocities started coming out, “the Krauts were more upset about it than we were.” (I remember he also said the youngest ones, in particular, felt the most betrayed.) Turning the Holocaust into THE central story of World War II — to the point where some younger people think it was the entire point of the war — was, as far as I can tell, something that started with the Boomers, as Z Man alludes to here in his podcast. The guys who actually fought and bled facing the Nazis viewed it as much less important. (Hell, I’m willing to bet even Churchill would have objected to the modern emphasis on the Holocaust to the exclusion of anything else.)On the other hand, I have direct ancestors who owned slaves, served in the Confederate Army, and even some who were members of the first, Reconstruction-era KKK. I’ve heard innumerable family stories about these people, have seen records that were unearthed by my family’s amateur genealogists, and in some cases have been able to read actual letters and diaries, so I’ve known forever that the “modern consensus” narrative about the Civil War was mostly bullshit.In truth, I don’t know that any “narrative” can adequately capture the breadth and complexity of this history — there are many, many things in my family’s history that wouldn’t fit easily into any neat partisan or academic framework, and I assume the same is true with other families. The much-maligned so-called “Lost Cause” narrative seems to me to come closer than more contemporary crap, but it still misses a lot. Unfortunately for historians, people are not meat robots mindlessly acting out predetermined historical scripts for the benefit of idealistic academic theories.I’m sure this is all true for World War II as well, and I’m sure the simplistic stories that were handed down to me are missing a lot, too. But I feel less comfortable challenging them, given my immediate experience with the participants. Revisiting that story will have to fall to future generations.
Compsci #423071 September 7, 2024 10:46 am 0
“I’m sure the simplistic stories that were handed down to me are missing a lot, too. But I feel less comfortable challenging them, given my immediate experience with the participants.”Very good analysis. I tend to agree with you. Those simplistic stories are “data points” that, albeit perhaps personally biased, each have bits of truth in them. Large scale narratives in books and media may seem more complete and truthful, but in the culture of (great) lies as we now live in, have much less credibility to me as a self made narrative, put together with common sense and critical thinking based upon a lifetime of experience.If that’s arrogant, then so be it.
Gespenst #423114 September 8, 2024 1:23 pm 5
WWII vets were generally convinced that they were fighting for a great and just cause. The Allied Governments made sure of that, at the time and ever since. They are not likely to listen to anything that tarnishes the cause they watched a lot of companions get killed and wounded for, even if the criticism is valid up to a point.
MysteriousOrca #422982 September 6, 2024 3:06 pm 6
For those that haven’t seen it, Ron Unz also has many excellent alternative explorations about WW2posted on his site.
Hi-ya #422844 September 6, 2024 10:13 am 5
a man calling himself uh oh, this can’t be good….
Panzernutter #422966 September 6, 2024 2:24 pm 4
Maybe old Timmy will have to appear in front of the spiteful mutants in D.C. without that beanie on.
Gespenst #423115 September 8, 2024 1:28 pm 2
It is entirely possible to believe that the Nazi regime was evil beyond the comprehension of normal people, and at the same time, believe the Allies were less honorable and altruistic than their mythologists would like you to think
karl von hungus #422981 September 6, 2024 3:06 pm 2
sorry if this is a duplicate question. why are the hebes up in arms over Churchill related issues? they are openly calling Tucker an anti-semite and so forth.
Ostei Kozelskii #422990 September 6, 2024 4:17 pm 6
Well, I can’t say for certain, but I gather the Finkels regard Churchill as something of a hero because he played an important role in defeating the Nazis, and in the process, sparing the Jews extermination or something close to it. Criticism of Churchill is, in their calculus, actually a thinly veiled form of antisemitism. When it comes to the Shoah, the only acceptable position is perpetual, full-throated and utter condemnation (complete with self-flagellation, if you’re white), and failure to adopt that pose enthusiastically enough puts one under a cloud of suspicion.
MysteriousOrca #422991 September 6, 2024 4:23 pm 10
Daryll Cooper was presenting actual history, they are dealing with myth and religion.For example, DC implied without saying it that many of the deaths during “the holocaust” not from gas chambers, as is universally claimed, but from starvation, because the Germans had unexpecedtly imprisoned millions of Soviet troops along with the Jews, Communist, gays, Roma, and others that they had rounded up, and found that they could not feed them all. Deliberate murder by gas chamber is central to the story of WW2 and the founding of the modern world, and claiming that many of deaths were more unintentional than that is being claimed to be pro-National Socialist.
Ostei Kozelskii #423026 September 6, 2024 7:20 pm 4
No idea if Cooper mentioned it, but it is also certain that because the Allies bombed supply lines, a great deal of food and possibly medicine intended for the camps never reached them. Needless to say, that didn’t exactly work to the advantage of the inmates, and it also undercuts the notion that the Nazis murdered all those Jews. Some, yes, but certainly not all of them.
Ben the Layabout #423064 September 7, 2024 7:58 am 5
Anne Frank, one of their martyrs, died in a camphospitalof an infectious disease (typhus). Not from a gas chamber or evil experimentation.
Ostei Kozelskii #423070 September 7, 2024 10:26 am 3
It’s good that we can be frank about these things on this site…
Compsci #423072 September 7, 2024 10:56 am 3
As regarding Anne Frank, such was known (her death) even when I was a child. The aspect of a camp hospital however, means little more than isolation, not treatment. When Anne was rounded up, there was little to nothing left with which to treat such epidemic diseases which spread through the camps. Isolation became a joke, and the inmates could not even be released into the population due to disease. Even the Allies kept the camps going due to disease concerns.
Ben the Layabout #423034 September 6, 2024 8:19 pm 5
I’ve only had the barest taste of so-called Holocaust Denial. One interesting factoid I recall, that rings true. Those “gas chambers”? Were they delousing rooms*? Did they really put live humans in a room with gas intended to kill bugs? Sounds rather ill advised. On the other hand, I know enough of the history of hygiene to know that especially in hard times, people are going to be hairy and unwashed. Also that lice and other vermin thrive on such a host. They also are known to carry some very nasty diseases. Like the typhus that Anne Frank died of, for instance. Thus, it would be reasonable the Krauts would have had some delousing or other treatments for incoming prisoners.*Perhaps that was a Denier attempting to turn an execution chamber into a pest control device. But it could be equally argued that the war’s winners were doing the opposite.
MysteriousOrca #423047 September 6, 2024 9:47 pm 9
Yeah, all of that. Zyklon B was apparently commonly used for delousing, and typhus was apparently common in the camps. My current understanding guess is that 300k-2m Jews died in work/detention camps from starvation, typhus, overwork, and some murders (with guns, etc), and that the whole 6m died in gas chambers in extermination camps is a blood libel falsehood, just like the forty beheaded babies. But who knows, I wasn’t there (and neither were all the shrieking holocaust true believers).
karl von hungus #423063 September 7, 2024 7:51 am 5
thanks for all the well spoken replies. i think, having read them, that the hebes see any rollback of the overall WWII narrative as an existential threat to their part of the play. not sure they have ever showed anyone (who’s helped them) gratitude or appreciation. i think it’s telling that “The Producers”, from 1967, does not mention the holocaust even tangentially. And Brook’s comedic portrayal of Hitler and the NAZIs as dress-up loving bumblers, actually humanizes them a bit!
Compsci #423073 September 7, 2024 11:05 am 4
Brooks’ “The Producers” is very Jewish in intent/foundation. There is an old Jewish prayer of sorts, “Lord make my enemies seem foolish (or ridiculous)”. This has been a theme in many programs put on by Jew’s—like “Hogan’s Hero’s”. The Producers is *not* a comedy, it is a (post hoc) retaliatory blow against Hitler and NAZI-ism.
RPJ #422923 September 6, 2024 12:44 pm 1
Bravo. Really enjoyed this episode. Mr Z summarised very well the issues with the past & it’s recording. Good to see the Cavaliers & Roundheads getting a mention. The past has a habit of reaching into the future. An episode to listen to more than once as with many of these.
Christopher Chantrill #422842 September 6, 2024 10:09 am 1
I was thinking about Wagner’s Norns, weaving the rope of Destiny. But then the rope breaks.
Greg Nikolic #423105 September 8, 2024 9:46 am -1
History, though written by the victors, is hard to tamper with. It’s like literary criticism: once a body of thought (a canon) is formed, it resists being dislodged. What kind of a man criticizes Churchill? I’d say an isolationist, the kind who tried to tie Roosevelt’s hands politically. This sub-ideology has been out of fashion for 80 years and in an age of global hegemony, is positively dowdy. — Greg (www.dark.sport.blog)
Gespenst #423118 September 8, 2024 4:27 pm 2
We live with regret that Roosevelt’s hands were not tied politically–both Roosevelts, for that matter.
Whiskey #423083 September 7, 2024 3:32 pm -1
While I wait for approval:Chamberlain was PM 1937-1940, not Churchill.Chamberlain led appeasement of the Austrian, with predictable results. [the lesson is overapplied however, see below]1939 is no longer relevant as nukes are insurance even for small states.The bad stuff 1939-1945 did happen, it was well documented, to deny it is to look like a fool.That bad stuff will happen to US (for the same reasons, ideology and HATE HATE HATE) unless we have: our own ethnostate, large civilian ownership of weapons, nukes to back up the ethnostate.Never EVER EVER depend on international agreements, “the international community” but your own force of arms and people and mutual assured destruction.The moral authority of the Elites rests on WWII, the counter-argument is that nuke proliferation (even North Korea has them) makes that moral authority irrelevant as the authority of Julius Caesar.
Whiskey #423082 September 7, 2024 3:26 pm -1
Unimpressed by both Cooper and Tucker, grifting both. Yes, the moral authority of the elites they say rests on defeating Hitler. The rational and winning argument is that per Emilio Estevez, that was then, this is now. Nuclear weapons and demographic implosion have severe limits on even the most bloodthirsty ideologues. Egypt cannot wage a real war of elimination against Israel, nor can Iran. Israel has nukes and will use them if really pressed. Same with Putin, or the West. That’s why states have them — and their destructiveness creates constraints on leaders that did not exist in 1939.Cooper is a grifter, Buchanon an idiot (with respect to WWII) and I would gladly tell that to either to their face.Neville Chamberlain, not Churchill, was PM of the UK from May 1937 to May 1940. Churchill only became PM as the German panzers punched through the Ardennes and threatened to roll up the Allied Anglo/French forces in Belgium. Thus pre-war policy was Chamberlain’s, not Churchill’s, and the failure to remove Hitler when he was weak still stands out. [It is not a universal lesson, and over applied, but there it is.]The person responsible completely and absolutely for WWII in Europe was Hitler. None other. “From this thistle war, I pluck this flower peace,” so said Neville Chamberlain after the Munich Conference in 1938 which gave Hitler everything he wanted. “Peace in our time” shouted Chamberlain as he waved around a piece of paper Hitler had signed at the conference. The Allies were scared (rightly so) of Stalin, and as long as Hitler was simply a buffer between them and Stalin and did not act on his ideology of creating a new and uglier Roman Empire he was free to do as he pleased internally. His invasion of Poland (stupid, as Stalin not the Poles were the main threat) created WWII in Europe (the Japanese had created it in 1931 in Asia with the invasion of Manchuria).After Poland, there was no ability to make agreements with Hitler since he’d already proven he’d abandon them whenever he felt like it. Buchanon’s suggestion of peace was stupid. Tbe British Empire was doomed anyway, technology was allowing natives to use violence against the Empire already, neither the US nor USSR would tolerate it any more, and there was no surplus of young men ready to seek their fortune among oppressed native. The only option was fighting as peace simply meant later defeat and occupation by Hitler when he was ready. Munich proved Hitler non-agreement capable so to speak.As for the Holocaust, yes there were indeed death camps, those who could not work were herded into gas chambers (the very young, the old, the infirm, others). Germans even collected the gold teeth, which was debased and ugly in the extreme. It was so bad that nearly 15% of hardened SS officers committed suicide at the camps, killing grannies or toddlers who looked vaguely like their cousins was not the glory promised. The camps attracted the dregs of the dregs, usually non-Germans who took delight in sadism, like John Demjanuk (an Ethnic Ukranian). There is plenty of evidence, from thousands of survivors, of German archives, from the Wansee Conference where the extermination was decided. As usual, it was driven by Hitler and his ideology.It was just not unique, rather depressingly common, being preceded by the Armenian Genocide by ordinary Turks and Arabs, and the Greek genocide in Western Turkey in the 1920s, afterwards the Biafran Genocide by the Hausa and Fulani in Nigeria against the Igbo, the genocide in Indonesia against the Chinese during the Suharto coup, and the genocide against the Tutsi by the Interamhamwe (literally” those who kill together”). For the latter, between April and June, 1994, armed almost entirely with stones, clubs, and machetes, the Hutu slaughtered between 800,000 and 1.1 million, compared to Auschwitz which ran for 3.5 years, was enlarged three times, and did about the same mass murder. Never let it be said that Africans cannot per capita when determined inflict as much sadism and evil as the most depraved Europeans.The depressing human condition and the answer we should have is that diversity +proximity = genocide. That peoples should always be armed against their government, as insurance against government sponsored genocide. That diversity should be discouraged, ethnostates encouraged. That the correct response to the Holocaust was the creation of Israel where Jews have their own ethnostate backed by nuclear weapons and we White people need and deserve the same … FOR THE SAME REASONS.The Holocaust happened. It could and WILL happen to us AND for the same reasons unless we create our ethnostates with nukes and a fully armed civilian population. This alters the balance of terror in favor of liberty and freedom, which are good things, and against tyranny and sadism which are bad things.Last add, a US Army War college historian was asked why Hitler made the bad decisions that cost him the war. He said in paraphrase, that whenever the national interest of Germany conflicted with Nazi ideology, Hitler chose Nazi ideology over Germany. There is a lesson in that. Give me pragmatic nationalists every day, even with their flaws, over an ideologue.
Pozymandias #423111 September 8, 2024 12:12 pm 2
Upvoted partly for Emilio Estevez who starred in the greatest movie of all time – Repo Man.
karl von hungus #423066 September 7, 2024 9:14 am -1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4un_V_FzhE&ab_channel=VaughanWalton pay attention at the :20 mark
Jannie #422868 September 6, 2024 10:56 am -9
There was a time when I questioned whether WW2 was inevitable, whether we (USA) could have stayed out of it and millions of lives saved. The more I read, however, the more I am convinced that we didn’t have a choice – at least, not much of one. Essentially, with Hitler it was either submit (like Vichy) or fight to the death (like Russia). No third choice. Churchill, for all his flaws, realized this from an early stage. He knew that if Britain followed the Vichy path and its massive navy (along with the French and Italian navies) fell into Nazi hands, there would be very little preventing Hitler’s ultimate victory over an encircled USSR and isolated USA. He knew that it would be a close-run thing, and what British defeat meant.Most of them are dead now, but I do remember a lot of hatred of the Germans among older Europeans who lived through WW2 and were under occupation. It really is worth reading about the experiences of countries like France and the Netherlands (e.g. the Hunger Winter). Also events like the Kaunas Pogrom (just one of the many atrocities against Europe’s Jews). Hollywood and the (yes, Jewish) media have turned the Nazis into clownish, edgy cartoon characters and simplified WW2 down to a few key events (Pearl Harbor, D-Day, Auschwitz, Hiroshima), but we should read more widely, in particular first-hand accounts.The beautiful old Europe encountered by Patrick Leigh Fermor on his travels was swept away forever by Hitler. Let’s not forget that fact.
LineInTheSand #422909 September 6, 2024 12:18 pm 4
“Essentially, with Hitler it was either submit (like Vichy) or fight to the death (like Russia). No third choice.” This is where we differ. Did Hitler want to be world dictator? From my reading, Hitler just wanted to bring the Germans together under one state. He invaded Poland because the Germans in Danzig were being persecuted and he loved his people. He saw his enemies as USSR/communism and the chosen. Jannie, what is your best evidence that Hitler wanted to conquer Europe?
Wiffle #422938 September 6, 2024 1:21 pm 1
There weren’t that many Germans in Danzig. What Hitler proposed to Poland was making a territory that was far into Poland German and then getting sovereignty over a swath of land that would have bifurcated Poland at the time. (It would have connect Danzig to Germany) When they refused such an unsustainable plan, Hitler invaded all of Poland.It’s possible to look at WWII and see a whole group of leaders drunk on the power of industrialization who cared little for humanity beyond their personal games of Risk. We don’t have to make Hitler a good guy to make them all bad guys
Felix Krull #423055 September 7, 2024 2:59 am 7
There weren’t that many Germans in Danzig. Are you serious? Danzig was +90% German.
Ostei Kozelskii #422956 September 6, 2024 1:42 pm 5
Hitler wished to create a Greater Germania. In other words, he wanted to create a single polity of all the lands conquered by Germanic peoples during theVolkwanderungen. Effectively, this meant all of non-Slavic Europe including England.
Jannie #423046 September 6, 2024 9:33 pm 0
Generalplan Ost – Wikipedia That – and the fact that he very nearly did! Conquering France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Italy, Greece, all of Eastern Europe except Russia itself…The best evidence is what he accomplished and tried to accomplish!!!
LineInTheSand #423089 September 7, 2024 5:06 pm 0
Thanks Jannie. I confess I haven’t heard of Ost before. I’ll take a look.
Alzaebo #423081 September 7, 2024 3:18 pm 3
In other words, Hitler was right. It would take a tyrant to fortify Europa against a much greater tyranny.One wanted to preserve the European peoples, the other wanted to erase them. Headline: NATO Is Training Africans To Speak Ukrainian So They Can Replace The Men Slaughtered On Front Lines


Back to top