The Chevron Case

Imagine if when the Supreme Court decided Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, they drew a sharp line between public and private discrimination. Maybe in Katzenbach v. McClung they drew a bright line around the Commerce Clause and ruled that as long as you were not conducting business across state lines, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not apply to your business. In other words, what if the court said that the principles of discrimination and inclusion apply only to the government?

The answer is we would have a vastly different world. Just consider the Katzenbach case in which the court claimed that the restaurant in question was not doing business across state lines, but it was possible that it could one day buy product from a vendor in another state, so the Commerce Clause applied. If the court had ruled rationally, we would now have a world where private discrimination was still legal, just as long as you did it locally, not nationally.

Of course, if the court had drawn the line between private discrimination and public discrimination, most of our race troubles never would have manifested, because normal life would not contradict official morality. A colorblind state is well within the spirit and sensibility of the American people. The liberty to associate or disassociate with whom you choose, for any reason you choose, is also consistent with the history and sensibilities of the people.

That is not what happened, and we have suffered a half century of demographic collapse as a result of the court imposing a new moral framework. It is a good example of how even small changes in the law can lead to a revolution in how people interact with each other and the government. We may be seeing another revolution brewing with the most recent court rulings in Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo and Corner Post, Inc. v. Board of Governors.

The Loper decision ends what has been called the “Chevron deference” which is the longstanding principle where the courts defer to federal agencies with regards to regulations, interpretation of regulations and enforcement of regulations. Put simply, if a business or industry did not like a federal regulation, they had to convince the regulators to change it or get help from Congress. The courts would defer to the alleged experts in the administrative state.

What the Supreme Court has done in these two cases is continue to dismantle the logic that animated the Chevron deference and much of administrative law. They are going about it in two ways. One is the Court is saying that these agencies only have powers explicitly granted to them by Congress. Second, companies and industries can now go into the courts for redress. They can challenge the expertise of the regulators and the process used by the agencies to make policy.

This may sound arcane and boring, but keep in mind that most of the federal rules that directly impact your life are not passed by Congress. In fact, no one in Congress can tell you how most of the rules come into existence. The reason for that is the federal agencies craft the rules that regulate every nook and cranny of life. Until now, they did so without having to answer to anyone. Technically, Congress oversees these agencies, but Congress is full of simpletons.

What the Court seems to imagine is a new paradigm. If the Gaia worshippers, for example, want to ban gas stoves, they will need to get enough votes in Congress for a ban on gas stoves. Currently, they just have to cajole or bribe people in the administrative state and convince industry that they can profit from the new shenanigans in order to ban your gas stove. You, the citizen, have nowhere to turn to get your gas stove back.

There are now over 200,000 pages in the Code of Federal Regulations and few people have the slightest idea what they mean. This is why large companies have lawyers who interface with the agencies overseeing their industry. It is why small and midsized companies have trade groups. It is why there is a large army of lawyers whose specialty is administrative law. This is because the leviathan, which is the administrative state, has tentacles reaching into your most private matters.

What made this all possible was the habit of Congress, going back to FDR, to grant agencies in the executive branch broad powers to make laws, interpret those laws and enforce those laws. The way they did this is to give an agency a mission and then a budget to set off on that mission, which was used to lobby Congress for more money to expand the scope of the mission and underwrite various schemes that allegedly were in pursuit of their mission.

The direction of the Court is to ignore the vague powers granted by Congress and focus only on the specific powers granted by Congress. If Congress passes the Puppies and Rainbows bill that authorizes the Department of Education to do what they can to promote puppies and rainbows, the Court will not intervene. Once the DoE makes a rule requiring puppies and rainbows in the schools, then a school system can go to court arguing that the DoE was never granted this power.

There is a long road to go and many more court cases to define this new paradigm, but the end of that road is an administrative state that is limited by the specific powers granted to it and one that must defend its rules in court when challenged. For the same reason our coins have ridges, bills coming out of Congress will have to come with specifics, rather than pages of esoteric language designed to give the administrative state unlimited power to craft new rules.

In the short term, it means that every comma in those 200,000 pages of Federal regulations is now open to challenge in the courts. Inevitably, some popular rules will be struck down and that means Congress will be forced to pass actual laws reestablishing those popular rules. On the other hand, it also means there is a chance to get rid of odious rules that serve narrow interests. Getting a light bulb ban through Congress, for example, never would have happened.

It is not all puppies and rainbows. Rich people have been bribing Congress for generations and America presently has the worst class of rich people since the French Revolution, so it means lots of terrible laws from Congress. The difference is that this stuff will be out in the open where now it is in the shadows, allowing both Congress and its wealthy owners to play dumb and pretend to be something other than odious carbuncles strip-mining the middle-class.

Civil rights looked like a small change in private behavior in pursuit of a greater good, but it led to the demographic madness of the present. These rulings in pursuit of reducing the managerial state to mere bureaucracy may not look like much, but they threaten the moral authority of managerialism. Rule by experts no longer make sense when experts can be challenged. This may one day give people room to salvage whatever is left of the American experiment.


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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

222 Comments

H I #411663 July 3, 2024 7:48 am 47
More simply, the court could have gone along with what the Constitution actually says: the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination by the government, while private discrimination is expressly allowed by the First Amendment (freedom of assembly/association). The government has to be evenhanded, but the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional.
Xman #411814 July 3, 2024 1:38 pm 9
“…Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination by the government”No, it DOESN’T.It prohibits discrimination by the STATE governments. The Federal government is free to discriminate all day long… and it does, against sexually normal white men.The First Amendment (and thus the entire Bill of Rights) begins with the phrase “CONGRESS shall make no law…”The Fourteenth Amendment reads “No STATE shall… deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”This is a crucially important point to understand. The Constitution does not require “equal protection”” by the Feds. The Fourteenth Amendment effectively inverted the Constitution. The Constitution as written at the Convention of 1787 and amended in 1791 reflected the States dictating the terms to the newly-created Federal government.The Fourteenth Amendment is the Federal government, after conquering and occupying half the states under martial law, dictating the terms to the States.
Hokkoda #411669 July 3, 2024 8:09 am 46
Nearly all “laws” enforced during COVID, from masks to vaccines to lockdown, at the Federal, State, and Local level were these bureaucratic “laws”. They would say something vague like “follow CDC guidance”, and then threaten people with Federal prison sentences for noncompliance. Elected officials loved this arrangement because passing mask laws would have been very unpopular. Instead, they let bureaucrats run amok. A lot of people got arrested, their businesses shuttered, etc. for not following rules of the managerial state. This ruling appears to end that lunacy.
thezman #411671 July 3, 2024 8:10 am 28
It is a game of good cop – bad cop, but the bad cop is the invisible hand of the administrative state.
pyrrhus #411678 July 3, 2024 8:28 am 17
But not so invisible these days…
Hokkoda #411698 July 3, 2024 9:30 am 29
Throughout covid, I wondered how far people would let “county health departments” get away with those rules before people started burning their houses down. Pretty far, it turned out.
Outdoorspro #411710 July 3, 2024 9:45 am 33
I’d have to say that that was the biggest black pill of all the black pills in the last decade.
Jack Dobson #411739 July 3, 2024 10:25 am 20
Agreed. I already was very cynical and the slavish devotion to Covid lunacy managed to intensify my dark attitude.
Tars Tarkas #411725 July 3, 2024 10:07 am 40
Covid was a big wake-up for what little optimism I ever had in the general public. Mind you, I was already pretty cynical about them. But not even I thought they could be cajoled into staying at home while their businesses went bankrupt. Their is no indignity they will not endure.
Ostei Kozelskii #411735 July 3, 2024 10:19 am 23
It’s as if the masses have somehow been deprived of all heart, soul, brain and ball. What remains is some strange hybrid of a turnip and an oyster that walks on two feet.
Compsci #411803 July 3, 2024 12:21 pm 13
Yep. Almost cost me my doctor. He was all gung ho on vexxination and masking, but decided that my yearly fees outweighed such a health concern during office visits. We now have a somewhat better relationship and he has agreed totherapeuticallytreat Covid with Ivermectin and such. Even doctors can learn. His punishment (my revenge?) of course are the daily revelations of new vexxination adverse affects, of which I have none—for myself anyway.
Ostei Kozelskii #411816 July 3, 2024 1:57 pm 12
Most, but not all physicians these days are medical drones who simply follow Power Structure protocols. Whatever the CDC tells them to do, they do it. They just don’t use the old noodle too much anymore.
Hokkoda #411819 July 3, 2024 2:02 pm 20
The various boards will revoke their licenses. Saw it first hand with my wife, a pediatrician. If you fight the system, they’ll not only destroy your ability to earn a living, they’ll send swarms of lawsuits your way. A lot of the docs know it’s bs, the tranny stuff too, but the hammer the shyster lawyers can drop on them is brutal. Its not an accident that Pharma gets lawsuit immunity, but the doctors do not.
Bourbon #411859 July 3, 2024 6:15 pm 4
Ostei Kozelskii: “It’s as if the masses have somehow been deprived of all heart, soul, brain and ball.”Those of us with functioning Amygdalae failed to realize the almighty power of the mesmerization & hypnotization & social-mores-shaping & social-mores-shaming techniques being wielded upon the Normies via Talmudvision & Scrotial-Media & the J00vies.To a certain extent, we Free Thinkers failed the Normies when the Normies were in their time of greatest need.Arguably it goes at least as far back as (((Sarnhoff))) being allowed to destroy Farnsworth.And prior to that, there was the quaker traitor, Henry Alloway, who engineered the sale of the New York Times to the (((Olz))) family.There are even rumors that the J00vie industry was created in Hollywood, California, precisely because none of the illiterate rubes out West would have objected to Thomas Edison being cheated out of the movie patent royalties which he was owed, way back East.But not even Ford nor Lindbergh could save the Normies of their time.It takes so many many decades to unravel Evil of this magnitude.
Bourbon #411873 July 3, 2024 9:58 pm 1
“(((Olz)))” should have read “(((Ochs)))” [as in Ochs-Sulzberger].
Zulu Juliet #411776 July 3, 2024 11:30 am 13
“cajoled into staying at home while their businesses went bankrupt”It wasn’t really like that. It was more like “pressured to wear face diapers or loose your job”. There is a lot of leverage in a paycheck.Going deeper in the worm hole, businesses mandated the face diaper because they surely knew if they didn’t follow CDC guidance and one of their employees got the cooties, a lawsuit would surely follow.On the brighter (but not sunny) side, my company tried to get people to diaper-up last year when people started banging the COVID drum and there was almost a revolt. A significant portion of the workforce refused to mask and management backed off.
Bourbon #411857 July 3, 2024 5:49 pm 9
Tars Tarkas: “There is no indignity they will not endure.“In the coming decades, they will be enduring the indignity of watching their children & grandchildren being miscarried & stillborn, not to mention the indignity of dying themselves from their own turbo cancers.And the few who live long enough will eventually learn that their daughters & granddaughters & great-grand-daughters have irreversible ovarian failure.Similarly with their sons & grandsons & great-grand-sons, withirreversibletesticular failure.Gonna be an helluva lotta indignititties to suffer before it’s all over & done with.Psycho-Sociologically speaking, the truly fascinating question is WHEN, or, worse yet, IF, they will ever realize any of this is happening to them & to their descendants.tl;dr == If you’re still Pμrebl00ded in 2024, then get down on your hands and knees and say prayers of thanks for having been born into the bloodlines of multiple series of ancestors which endowed you with a fully functioning AMYGDALA.And pity the poor oblivious Normies whose Amygdalae failed to rise to the occasion.[whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire]
Alzaebo #411876 July 4, 2024 3:18 am 5
See how much better this flows without the wEirD $pELLiNg?What is that ‘Pμrebl00ded’ crap anyways, you got to hide it?The Zman tells us to respect our readers. This is much better.
thezman #411877 July 4, 2024 6:26 am 4
Yeah, the weird capitalization and parenthesis stuff is coming to end. Write like a normal person here.
Hi-ya #411898 July 4, 2024 9:23 am 0
Can we keep presstitutes?!?!
Hi-ya #411897 July 4, 2024 9:21 am 2
Pureblood here, thanks amygdala, whatever you are!
tashtego #411789 July 3, 2024 12:03 pm 7
Think of it as the Great Disillusionment. Conversely, it becomes very freeing to have such a concrete demonstration of the absurdity of democracy as an idea and the true authoritarian nature of our governance. It isn’t authoritarianism that is the problem though because it is a given that there will be authority to fill the general population’s need to be told how to think and behave. The problem is the actual people filling the roles of authority and the mission should be focused on replacing them with people that will dictate according to our moral sensibilities and not those of the deranged genocidal aliens currently holding the reins.
Lucius Sulla #411826 July 3, 2024 2:30 pm 3
In my ideal world, county health inspectors and bureaucrats would have been dealt with thusly: https://youtu.be/jL2BfupSjWE?si=x7Nsl6-lOpNBto1w
Fed Up #411726 July 3, 2024 10:07 am 5
Bad cop, worse incompetent cop.When they write the rules and install their own to interpret those, the result is a foregone conclusion.Somewhere the notion of a Republic got lost. The insiders wanted control and they got it.
Arthur Metcalf #411673 July 3, 2024 8:11 am 7
And thanks to Trump’s declaration of a state of national emergency, they were able to do it:https://www.macpac.gov/subtopic/federal-emergency-authorities/
pyrrhus #411681 July 3, 2024 8:29 am 3
And where did the authority for that declaration come from?
Phineas McSneed #411684 July 3, 2024 8:56 am 22
This is one of the most obtuse TDS takes ever. Executives at every level from city, to county, to national assumed dictatorial powers to invent and enforce new rules/laws, over the entire industrialized world, during covid. The technical details are all irrelevant. There was a panic providing a pretext to grab power, and they grabbed. It cannot be blamed on Trump.
Arthur Metcalf #411766 July 3, 2024 11:16 am 35
I do not have TDS (the Boomercon’s equivalent of calling someone “racist”). I worked for Pat Buchanan’s 92 and 96 campaigns. I guarantee you I have deeper roots in this movement — such as it remains with Democrat grifters like Trump, who called Buchanan an “anti-Semite” in 2000 — than you or most here.You go ahead and watch Trump wave that Israeli flag around next summer in Jerusalem. Maybe you can go and kiss the wall with him or something, I dunno what the routine is with you folks. You watched Trump hand the key to locking us down to Democrat governors, and then you turn around and blame the governors. Some of you are as anvil-headed as lefties. You can’t criticize Trump for ANYTHING with you. Nothing. He’s spotless.Except he’s a New York Democrat whose sole concern in his first term was appeasing his son-in-law and his father-in-law (who got a nice pardon on 1/20/21) Israeli mob connections. As someone who was close friends with Buchanan and his wife, Trump’s hit in 2000 was absolute Roy Cohn-level sleaze and these trials by his Jewish friends must be quite amusing to Pat as he watches from retirement in NoVa.TDS my ass.
Mike #411772 July 3, 2024 11:26 am -19
I won’t argue your points, but you do have TDS and you’ve got it bad. Burn the house down just because you hate BOM so much. Who’s on your list who would be better and electable?
Arthur Metcalf #411842 July 3, 2024 4:44 pm 7
You belong on Breitbart or Free Republic.
Vinnyvette #411879 July 4, 2024 7:19 am -5
You belong on Mother Jones or the Daily Beast Arty Metcalf
Bourbon #411861 July 3, 2024 6:23 pm 0
BOM = ?????
3g4me #411869 July 3, 2024 7:12 pm 7
Bourbon: Some of the old academics here think it’s edgy to use their own abbreviations, Bad Orange Man (ie Trump).
Vinnyvette #411880 July 4, 2024 7:22 am -4
14 downvotes for calling out a TDS’er. I upvoted you. You appear to be a newbie. 99% of the commentariat here are hard core TDS’ers. Most like to hide it. Just a heads up.
Ostei Kozelskii #411790 July 3, 2024 12:03 pm 3
Whew! And here I was thinking you had TDS… (-;
Compsci #411804 July 3, 2024 12:29 pm 8
Metcalf has a point. What he mentions are mostly observable reactions based in observable reality. True TDS would be the flights to fantasy of Hitleresque dictatorship, internment camps, assassinations, and the like. The choice between two evils is still evil. I don’t see it that way wrt to Trump, but can understand such a position.
Ostei Kozelskii #411818 July 3, 2024 2:02 pm -5
Just seems to me that AM loathes Trump primarily because he said a mean thing about his buddy, Paddy Paddy Byook Byook all those years ago. It’s still TDS, albeit a rightwing variant. And I say this as a confirmed Trump skeptic, myself.
Arthur Metcalf #411843 July 3, 2024 4:46 pm 2
Write like a man, not a teenaged boy. I made substantive points and you respond with the equivalent of Dindu Nuffin. Must be a Zoomer thing, lack of education, etc., etc.
Ostei Kozelskii #411848 July 3, 2024 4:56 pm 0
Heh heh. Well, alright. I see you’re just a choleric old goat and won’t waste any more time with you.
Vinnyvette #411881 July 4, 2024 7:23 am -4
You have TDS. Who the fuck are you to call out anyone!
Ostei Kozelskii #411902 July 4, 2024 9:47 am 0
Blow it out your ass, dickface.
Vinnyvette #411878 July 4, 2024 7:15 am -5
Because you worked on such and such’s campaign is no cover for you’re TDS. 90% or more of the Republican party machine suffer from TDS.You are the enemy “Arty Metcalf.”
Heresolong #411685 July 3, 2024 9:00 am -6
To be fair, it was probably a good idea at the time because no one knew anything about Covid-19. Also to be fair, he should have reversed it after the first couple weeks once it became clear that a) it wasn’t as bad as they feared and b) the bureaucracy was corrupt and taking advantage.
DLS #411692 July 3, 2024 9:19 am 24
Upvote, but disagree no one knew anything about it. Fauci and Collins practically created it. They knew 1) it was wildly transmissible because they engineered it with gain of function in their biolab, and thus all “slow the spread” measures were useless, and 2) the fatality rate was the same as the flu, and thus all vaccine coercions were immoral.
Arthur Metcalf #411770 July 3, 2024 11:25 am 6
Well, they don’t seem to care. I have to assume most of them above are vaxxed and this is their own way of dealing with it. The lack of any criticism of Trump is odd, but I’m watching people on the left and right drop IQ points on a daily basis, so, no surprise there either.
Bourbon #411863 July 3, 2024 6:26 pm 6
Arthur Metcalf:“I have to assume most of them above are vaxxed and this is their own way of dealing with it.” The Elites all got harmless inert normal saline injections in Made-For-Taldmuvision propaganda spectacles.
Alzaebo #411716 July 3, 2024 9:49 am 23
“probably a good idea at the time” CANNOT have enough downvotes. It was designed specifically to give ‘executives at every level… assumed dictatorial powers”. You know it, I know it, they know it, we all know it…And still they lie.
Arthur Metcalf #411773 July 3, 2024 11:26 am 4
Well, he really showed me. Pointing out that Trump declared a “national emergency” (no such thing in the Constitution, completely fictional) breaks their minds. It seemed like a good idea at the timeis a perfect motto for July 4th in American 2024.
3g4me #411722 July 3, 2024 9:55 am 28
” . . . it was probably a good idea at the time . . . “ No. Never. Go look after yourself but keep the f**k away from me and mine.
Compsci #411752 July 3, 2024 10:48 am -4
Too harsh 3g4me. There is often need for such authority in crisis, say an earthquake or fire. The executive needs to assemble relief ASAP. To do such may require confiscation of equipment and supplies, forced removal of populace from endangered areas, expenditures outside of competitive bidding, and the like. Covid is a bad example in general. However, quite a good example of the need for competence in government. The average layman had a better idea of what to do for the general (his) welfare.
3g4me #411759 July 3, 2024 10:59 am 16
Compsci: I strongly disagree. This was NOT a public disaster or calamity requiring an officialresponse. It was not Ebola, the dangers of which we know and about which the authorities shrugged, because it’s African. This was a nasal virus, and plenty of people within the government and military knew of the US labs overseas and the crap they were messing with.Not to mention I wholeheartedly reject the nanny state and the ‘authorities’ taking care of me. This was a highly successful power grab. And those supposed fellow citizens who cringed in terror of death – and who now want to just forget about wanting the unvaxxed to be put in camps and denied all services – can suffer whatever vax side effects to their hearts’ content. No, all is neither forgiven nor forgotten. They showed their true natures.
Bourbon #411866 July 3, 2024 6:51 pm -1
3g4me, I am convinced that as the Normies slowly become aware of what was done to them, they are not going to lash out at the gubmint nor at the j00ish pharmaceutical chemists which created the mMRNA concoctions, but rather the Normies are instead going to lash out at the Pμrebl00ded.As a general rule of thumb, Normies can’t hate in the abstract the manner that we Amygdala-dominant Free Thinkers can hate [in the abstract].To the contrary, Normie hate is very physical & tangible & immediate, and, in particular, Normies [driven by Passive Aggression] tend to search for potential targets of their rancor & venom & cruelty amongst their IMMEDIATE ACQUAINTANCES.Please, please, please, never commit the sin of Hubris by announcing your ownPμrebl00ded status when in the presences of Normies, and nevertease nor shame a v@xxinated Normie; I wouldn’t even allow them to sense that I felt pity for them.Never lose your Poker Face when in the company ofv@xxinated Normies.Just keep your d@mned mouth shut, hang your head low, remain in the shadows, and fly under their radar.If the v@xxinated Normie Herd ever realizes what is happening to them, the Normie Herd will rise up in anger and obliterate thePμrebl00ded.Already there are myriad calls for the v@xxinated Normies to have access to Pμrebl00ded Packed Red Blood Cells [PRBCs] and Pμrebl00ded Albumin & Pμrebl00ded Organs to be donated to the v@xxinated.!!!KEEP YOUR D@MNED MOUTH SHUT, HANG YOUR HEAD LOW, REMAIN IN THE SHADOWS, AND FLY UNDER THE NORMIE RADAR !!!!!!!! AND ABOVE ALL ELSE, ALWAYS ACT STOOPID, AS THOUGH YOU WERE A SHEER IMBECILE !!!!!In particular, never be a smart aleck when in the presence of a nosy gubmint official who has the power to destroy your life.!!!!!!! ALWAYS ACT STOOPID !!!!!!!
Vinnyvette #411882 July 4, 2024 7:27 am -3
Down voted for your sophmoric spelling. Grow the fuck up.
Ostei Kozelskii #411905 July 4, 2024 9:49 am 0
So says our resident 13-year-old. Idiot.
james wilson #411832 July 3, 2024 3:08 pm 2
HamiltonThe circumstances that endanger the safety of nations are infinite, and for this reason no constitutional shackles can wisely be imposed on the power to which the care of it is committed.Wise politicians….know that every breach of fundamental laws, though dictated by necessity, impairs that sacred reverence which ought to be maintained in the breast of rulers towards the constitution of a country, and forms a precedent for other breaches where the same plea of necessity does not exist at all, or is less urgent and palpable. (Alas, wise polititions?)MadisonIt is a melancholy reflection that liberty would be equally exposed to danger whether the government has too much or too little power.Richard FernandezThe eternal questions return in various guises generation after generation not because we can never resolve them, but because we resolve ourselves in them.
Ben the Layabout #411858 July 3, 2024 6:09 pm 7
Ah yes, the old “necessity” defense, but from the government’s point of view. Sorry, but I’m with 3g4me on this one. I and everyone else have to contend with agents of force. And that’s true whether it’s a criminal or our government claiming to act for the “common good” or whatever. But there are certain lines that will not be crossed, certain hills worth dying on. When it comes to my freedom, my property and my life, those belong tomeand anyone else will take them against my will only over my dead (or at least incapacitated) body. I hope the authorities will take note. I and mine are not a public good to be used as you see fit.
Tars Tarkas #411734 July 3, 2024 10:19 am 10
Covid was a great example of the expertocracy running away with its own imagination and then responding to what is in their imagination. To this day they are patting themselves on the back for their outstanding work and heroism. The lockdowns, masks and vaccine passports were terrible ideas. If no one knew anything, why the hell did they panic?
Stephen Dowling Botts Decd #411824 July 3, 2024 2:24 pm 12
“To be fair, it was probably a good idea at the time because no one knew anything about Covid-19.”After many decades of scare-mongering, starting with 1976’s swine flu (and the first attempt at coercive mass vaccination), and including H1-N1, SARS, Anthrax, Ebola, Zika, etc etc etc, I knew from the very first time I read about “Coronavirus” ( on Zero Hedge, it was) that it was allabsolute and total bullshit.Just like the previous 15 health panics were bullshit.“Not knowing anything about Covid 19” says a great deal about a person right there. It doesn’t exonerate Trump in any way, that’s for dead certain.
Ostei Kozelskii #411835 July 3, 2024 3:43 pm 5
In theory, we should have all snuffed it from Legionnaire’s Disease back in ’76, but here we are…
3g4me #411840 July 3, 2024 4:07 pm 7
Most people don’t know that many in Europe keep their water heaters set at 140 Fahrenheit, to prevent the growth of Legionella bacteria (https://www.hotwatersafety.org/blogs/what-to-know-about-legionella-bacteria-in-hot-water-heater-tanks). In America many regs say never exceed 120 because stupid people will scald themselves. Plus many US water heaters will start overflowing if heated above 120. Conundrum.
Ostei Kozelskii #411852 July 3, 2024 5:00 pm 6
The items of information one picks up at Z’s place…
Hokkoda #411697 July 3, 2024 9:28 am 5
That’s true, to a point. But also remember that in SCOTUS’ immunity ruling they defenestrated the ability of the managerial state to prosecute a President who doesn’t do what he is told. They used that weapon against Trump a lot before and during covid.
Arthur Metcalf #411775 July 3, 2024 11:29 am 11
Why did Trump sign a “Declaration of National Emergency” when there is no such authority in the Constitution? No “national emergencies” in this country. None. No such thing. We don’t have those. But we do now, I guess, and Trump used it. People can downvote away and excuse him (“He was forced to!” “He had no choice!” “The Dems are the ones who made that possible!”), and it makes Trump look even weaker and more pathetic than he did at the time, slumped over while Birx and Fauci smirked at him every day in the Briefing Room.
Compsci #411806 July 3, 2024 12:38 pm 1
There is one remedy in the Constitution for such Presidential overreach, Impeachment. Since that was not offered/attempted, the fault lies with Congress as well as the President (Trump). People also argue that all wars after WWII were illegal because there was no official Congressional declaration of war as specified within the Constitution. They are wrong as well.
Hokkoda #411820 July 3, 2024 2:07 pm 3
I can simultaneously hold different ideas in my head at the same time. I saw Fauci giving an interview outside the NIH in early 2020, and my first thought was “WTF is this guy?” followed quickly by “Trump needs to fire him asap…delusions of grandeur.” Trump should have done (and not done) lots of things. I don’t think he or anybody else believed our own government would conspire with China to release a bioweapon to win the 2020 election. Shame on all of us for complying.
Arthur Metcalf #411845 July 3, 2024 4:49 pm 8
One of the roles of the president would be to inform the voters of such a state of affairs, I would think.Trump should’ve fallen on his sword, told us what they were up to, and walked out of the White House.Instead, he played along. At what point does someone elected to office actually show some backbone? Covid wasn’t some yearly budget resolution not worth fighting over. This was a sui generis event and it was STAGED.I’ll wait for Trump to renounce his support for the vaccine. Until then, I suppose everyone here will keep telling me he had no choice.
Mycale #411732 July 3, 2024 10:15 am 16
Kind of weird that people on this side still do not understand that 2020 was a color revolution. The thing about color revolutions is that they happen TO the person who is ostensibly in charge, who is left with only one option that they can or cannot exercise, and that is the Assad option. Trump is not Assad. Whether or not he declared a national emergency was irrelevant, it was happening anyway. If you haven’t read the Molly Ball article on the color revolution, you should.
Arthur Metcalf #411778 July 3, 2024 11:31 am 8
It’s election season. The sorting has begun. I don’t expect to hear much critical talk about Trump from now on. 2020 is fading in the minds of most. Even the cons. Most of them got vaxxed anyway (like Tucker) and I’ve yet to hear a single one of them say theymade a mistake and were duped.
Ostei Kozelskii #411791 July 3, 2024 12:07 pm 8
The vast majority of us don’t give a shit about the Potemkin elections. To us, they’re merely sources of amusement.
Arthur Metcalf #411849 July 3, 2024 4:58 pm 0
Yet you’ve been up and down after me all day for daring to suggest that Trump had something to do with the Covid lockdown. Why so invested in the guy?
Ostei Kozelskii #411864 July 3, 2024 6:36 pm 1
You’re exaggerating. I simply noted that you are unusually peevish on the subject of Trump. Don’t take that observation for MAGAism, let alone an endorsement of our rigged political system
Compsci #411747 July 3, 2024 10:41 am 6
The problem with “state of emergency” declarations, Fed’s or States is in duration. Your citation does not seem to include duration specification. I’m too lazy to pursue. Here in AZ, the legislature passed law that, if I recall, limiting such to 30 days at which time the Legislature must meet to extend it. This is the problem, no oversight of the “Chief Executive” by the people affected. If the chief executive can declare a state of emergency in perpetuity, then we have a dictator.
Arthur Metcalf #411780 July 3, 2024 11:35 am 7
The legal aspect of it is more relevant as the duration, because at the time, nobody asked “how long is this for?” They simply accepted that the US was under a “national state of emergency.” The legality was accepted, which means that the duration would be, too. Can’t have the second without the first.Everyone accepted it, even the ever-suspicious Boomercons, out for government plots to take their guns under cover of martial law. Not this time, they said. This time, them Chineeeese are sendin’ poison birds at us.I gave up, honestly, during 2020. I’m not coming back. Trump will win because Israel needs to win. Our guys can’t even seethatnow. It’s sad.
Ostei Kozelskii #411792 July 3, 2024 12:11 pm 2
Trump will win, huh? Let us revisit that statement in November. Not that I’m ruling it out, but the outcome of the so-called “election” is by no means clear. The Power Structure will get its way, of course, but what that way is is anybody’s guess.
Compsci #411809 July 3, 2024 12:55 pm -2
Disagree. An emergency is just that, something requiring immediate action. It is not a problem for discussion or debate at the moment. Timely action is what is required. If not required, it is not an emergency. This point is arguable wrt past Covid nonsense.This is exactly why there is a chief authority, the President, defined in the Constitution. Supreme authority was assumed to be necessary in some situations, such as invasion from a foreign power. Since the President is the highest national authority, he can exercise such (implied) power.I don’t see that as having changed.You don’t agree as to the emergency nature of the event, fine. But that’s not for you to say at the time, but for the chief executive to conclude. If you don’t like his response, then you need to remove the executive or change law to better define what his authority is, or just “hire” better people for the job.We’ve been through this at least once, after Vietnam when Congress saw fit to limit such power to engage in military action outside of an official declaration of war. We still allow too much leeway to the President IMO.
Arthur Metcalf #411850 July 3, 2024 4:59 pm 2
Ah, someone from Dick Cheney and David Addington’s office stopped by! Hello! Yes! Go look it up!
Sorcerygod #411872 July 3, 2024 9:54 pm 3
“America has the worst class of rich people since the French Revolution.”Yep. They’ve grown uppity and assertive in their casual elegance & powers. Even the ones that lean Democratic like Warren Buffett and his billionaire pal Bill Gates have anti-populist leanings that permeate their soul. The reason that the rich aren’t hated is because every peon in the land has a secret dream of winning the lottery and “joining those ranks.” Fool’s gold, in every way.— Sorcerygod (www.dark.sport.blog)
Jeffrey Zoar #411687 July 3, 2024 9:06 am 21
It’s as if the court was ok with the Chevron deference until it was radically abused during the plandemic, kind of like how there had been no need for precedent on presidential immunity since nobody had bothered to really test it, until just recently. As if the court is now attempting to pull the reins on Clown World.
Hokkoda #411707 July 3, 2024 9:39 am 18
There was an interesting concurring opinion written by Clarence Thomas and he wrote that a private citizen cannot prosecute anyone, much less a former President.That statement was a “We have your back” assurance to Judge Eileen Cannon in the Miami/documents case. Not only is Trump now immune because EVERYTHING about the documents case involves an official act, but she can also order all of the documents be returned because they were unlawfully seized.The immunity ruling essentially says that bureaucrats cannot make law. But that’s what DOJ is doing when it charges Trump with violating nonexistent laws. Or, put another way, they changed the rules after he left office, and then weaponized those changed rules against him.SCOTUS just put a fork in that, too.Steve Bannon’s claims of executive privilege (which Trump validated) are now 100% covered, too. Seeking advice is an official act. Bannon’s prosecution is now illegitimate.
Hemid #411690 July 3, 2024 9:12 am 25
The great lesson of 2020: Laws don’t matter at all. Only “personnel” does.Covid, BLM, and the “installation” madepolice and soldiers irreconcilable enemies of every citizen. The “warriors” will never get over the deep, sadistic, sexual pleasure they got from beingofficiallyaimed away from criminal enemies—their mostly collegial but occasionally dangerous rivals for politicians’ favor—and pointed at wholly innocent, unexpecting citizens. Every “good cop” retired. Every “good soldier” was cashiered. There were almost none of either. Now there’s not a single one anywhere.So, the Court made a couple good decisions, and at least one unprecedentedly bad one. The former will not be enforced, ever. There’s no one whose job that is. The latter empowered every tech “pajeet”—I hear the slur was banned from X in commemoration?—with police power over every one of us.
Steve #411714 July 3, 2024 9:48 am 2
As per your last point, how? I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just not understanding how.
3g4me #411727 July 3, 2024 10:08 am 16
Hemid: It has almost always been thus. The conceit of Americans was that we were a nation of laws, but influence and power have always accompanied wealth and social position. Now laws merely codify that influence and power behind vague language and the blatant fallacy of “the people’srepresentatives.” I do not share any hope that any court or lawyer will help salvage anything from the American experiment. Laws and rules can only constrain a people capable of being constrained for the common welfare, whoserulers share their race, mores, culture, and concerns. That requires understanding and being honest about demographics.
Jack Dobson #411796 July 3, 2024 12:14 pm 16
Laws are only as good as their enforcement. In-groups enforce laws more equally and fairly for members of their group than they do for out-groups. Whites were somewhat of outliers in that they enforced laws somewhat equally and fairly at times for out-groups as well as their own in-group. It is stupid for them to expect that to be reciprocated. Look at Fani Willis, Judge Chutkan, Judge Engeron, Alvin Bragg, and so forth, and you see how other races routinely enforce the law.
Gideon #411854 July 3, 2024 5:30 pm 2
Yeah. The Southern “progressive” writer Harper Lee’sTo Kill a Mockingbirdhad a black man falsely accused of a crime not because she thought her white readers would celebrate it, but because she knew they would be put off by it.
Hokkoda #411822 July 3, 2024 2:12 pm 5
“Personnel is policy” is an old adage. A point many are making with the “unitary executive” SCOTUS ruling is that Pres Trump will be able to guy the administrative state through firings. We’ll find out in January if Trump can both learn his lesson and act decisively to decapitate the #resistance…something he should have done in 2017.
Tars Tarkas #411723 July 3, 2024 10:01 am 14
“This ruling appears to end that lunacy.” It does no such thing. Imagine this ruling had come out in 2019. It would not have prevented any of the covid madness. The challenges to the rules would only now be making their way to the circuit courts. And even this is a rosy scenario given the lunacy of the black robe class, the majority of which will rubberstamp whatever the agencies want. We don’t need new rulings, we need a new ruling class.
Hokkoda #411860 July 3, 2024 6:16 pm 5
We haven’t see a repeat of COVID because it was a one time good deal for the bureaucrats. When they tried to go back to masks and lockdowns in Fall 2022, they were told to go to hell by the public and even Trump was telling people not to comply.The worst thing that can happen to a government is mass civil disobedience. New rounds of masking and vaccines were a flop because the government could no longer mandate them.I get frustrated with the courts, but the rulings post-COVID have (by and large) made it nearly impossible for the bureaucrats to do that again.
Ben the Layabout #411862 July 3, 2024 6:25 pm 5
The problem is that the new ruling class is subject to the same environmental forces that, over time, would convert them into much the same as what we were hoping to extirpate. As the Who famously sang, “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” I hate to gainsay them, but wedoget fooled again. Over and over.
Coalclinker #411668 July 3, 2024 8:07 am 28
Nothing at this point can fix a State that is a dictatorship for all to see now. We don’t even know who runs the country, but you can bet its someone in the Federal Government who is unelected, who is a Democrat, and whose is intent to legalize a one-party state.This Leviathan of like-minded Democrat Communists who are entrenched for life by law in their government jobs will never be overturned since they essentially control everything. This cancer will never be excised when the whole body is a cancer.The only thing that can fix this problem at this point is a brick wall and a firing squad. And Joe Stalin was absolutely right about one thing when he said: ” Death is the solution for all problems- no man, no problem.”
Alzaebo #411730 July 3, 2024 10:13 am 3
Since you mention Stalin, thanks, here’s an odd segue: apparently, Lenin wanted a confederation of sovereign States, a United States of Russia. What came next is why Joseph Schiff, the US banker who funded the Revolution, recoiled and tried to reverse what he had done.Stalin poisoned Lenin, then deified him in the Rotunda, like a late-stage Roman Caracalla who had his brother murdered and then declared a deity by the Senate.Stalin then centralized all power to the Federal government, and the Purge and gulags began.The former bank robber for the Bolshies accomplished this by bringing his Azerbaijani gangster buddies to Moscow for personal visits with the Inner Party.I really, really wish some people would stop trying to improve us by doing one better.Intentions aside, a rush job just opens the door to unforeseen “opportunities”.
Ostei Kozelskii #411742 July 3, 2024 10:28 am 2
The Dems, in the main, are not commies. Otherwise, OK.
Hoagie #411749 July 3, 2024 10:44 am 0
Sure they are don’t be silly. And Joe Biden is still as sharp as ever, and he was always an honest man, and we’ve known him since he was just starting out and he’s a good person. Stop with the BS
Ostei Kozelskii #411798 July 3, 2024 12:17 pm 10
Don’t be such an imbecile. The DC clowns don’t know Marx from Mary Poppins. In fact, the Left has entirely hijacked capitalism and is using it for their own malign purposes, thank you very much. Some of them may still spout quasi-commie rhetoric in public, but that’s merely loon bait for LaKwe’shi’a. In fact, these people are postmodern fascists whose chief objectives are cultural, not economic. It’s not 1954 anymore, Hoagie.
Stephen Dowling Botts Decd #411827 July 3, 2024 2:51 pm 7
The foot soldiers do not need to “know Marx” in order to be faithful commiesin practice. The ‘proletariat’ wheeze didn’t take, so the Bolsheviks merely swapped out the prototype and substituted sexual deviants and Holy Negroes for the Class Struggle clunker– voilá, the Eternal Trotsky Social Revolution rages on, comrade!Imagining other people are motivated by abstract theories written down in textbooks, and that absent the terminologies and jargon to be found found therein the people effecting the same social destruction do not merit the descriptor “communists”, is an idea I keep seeing touted about in DR circles.Of coursethese scum are Communists. Their methodology is the same, and so will the Red Terror they’re cooking up for Johnny Honky be the same.And all without having read a single sentence from either Marx or Engles.
Ostei Kozelskii #411837 July 3, 2024 3:54 pm 5
You’re reducing communism to identity politics, and that’s a fallacy. The division of advanced humanity into capitalists and proles was not the sine qua non of communism. It was one part of a large and complex system centered around dialectical materialism and positing a communal telos in which the state simply withers away. If all you’re banging on about is identities–and not even the ones Marx and his epigoni bruited–then you don’t have communism.The reality is that poststructuralism supplanted Marxism in the second half of the 60s, and not only did the New Left no longer seek to initiate violent class revolution against the capitalists, they bacame capitalists themselves and used corporations as weapons against the hated Blue-eyed Ice Devil!Just because some Karen is a Leftist doesn’t make her a commie regardless of how much emotional satisfaction one derives from calling her a pinko. Again, it is 2024 not 1954, and we’ve got a very different ballgame on our hands.
Stephen Dowling Botts Decd #411926 July 4, 2024 10:52 am 1
It is possible to be much too smart for one’s own good. While the rhetorical flourishes impress, the Bolsheviks carry on dismantling all laws, customs, safeguards, and bulwark erected against the forces of carnage and murder. And this time they plan to immolate me and mine.I do not want to argue with you. But I also believe failure to recognize who your enemies are must inevitably result in failure to react to your enemies’ strategies effectively.I recommend people focus a whole lot less on academic moonbeams and a whole lot more on how these thugs operate out on the streets.And one thing I will flatly insist upon: the notion that these evil actors are motivated by loyalty to abstractions collectively called “Communism” and written down in a book is foolishness in the extreme. They are motivated by theWill To Power alone,and will abandon whatever airy-fairy bullshit they used to foment unrest and chaos the last time around the instant it no longer generates the unrest and chaos they are looking for.Call them by whatever label, the same Luciferean nation wreckers we called “Communists” have hijacked every lever of power and influence in this nation.We must plan accordingly.I’m interested in winning againstthem, not against you or those who insist only people who meet academic requirements qualify as Communists.
Coalclinker #411768 July 3, 2024 11:18 am 4
Communism and Fascism are males and females of the same species. For the low brow who don’t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, it’s communism. For the 1% cloud people, who love a government that will legalize their monopoly, it’s fascism. And for the Agitprops once known as the Press, it’s called “Muh Democracy.” For the rest of us, no one gives a rat’s ass except we know when we get it good and hard, there won’t be any Vaseline.
Ostei Kozelskii #411799 July 3, 2024 12:18 pm 4
Sorry. But words have objective meanings. That certain groups persist in viewing contemporary Leftism as communism doesn’t make it so.
Xman #411815 July 3, 2024 1:51 pm 6
Well, it’s not Bolshevism. It’s a Huxleyan “Brave New World” communism, though, where the proles are supposed to be equal consumer sheep monitored by a watchful totalitarianism and kept quiescent by sexual license and soma (i.e., anal, abortion and weed).
Ostei Kozelskii #411821 July 3, 2024 2:10 pm 4
The proles, to such an extent they exist, are vibrants, which points up the cultural and racial essence of pomo Leftism. The white working class, which was the primary target constituency of the CPUSA before and during the Cold War, is now being slowly exterminated by the Leftist power structure. Strange behavior for a commie state.
Xman #411828 July 3, 2024 2:58 pm 9
True, but only insofar as the white working class is the new kulak and must be targeted for his success. Yes, it is not 20th-century industrial communism, but the government policy of forced racial, sexual, gender, and disability equality is certainly a form of communist egalitarianism.
Ostei Kozelskii #411838 July 3, 2024 3:58 pm 3
It would be egalitarianism if the power structure truly sought equity between normal people and the coalition of freaks. In point of fact, it seeks to subjugate normal people and transfigure freaks. This is much more in keeping with fascism than communism.
Xman #411868 July 3, 2024 6:58 pm 3
This is an important discussion, O. Not to be pedantic here, but I disagree that the Left is “fascist.” Sure, some of the techniques they use are the same — propaganda, goons in the streets, etc. — but I think democracy and communism have more in common with each other than communism and fascism do.Both democracy and communism pronounce everyone equal. Both democracy and communism are expansionist globalist ideologies that claim to have total moral virtue. Both GAE/capitalist-style democracy and communism are materialist philosophies. Democracy and communism united to defeat fascism.Consider that the UK and the U.S. teamed up with Stalin’s USSR to defeat a German fascism that only threatened the USSR, not the democracies. Remember that Britain and France declared war on Germany over Poland, not the other way around.But they never declared war on the USSR for invading Poland.Despite Hitler stupidly declaring war on the U.S., Germany never could and never did seriously attack the U.S., let along conquer it. Germany never would have fought Britain had it stayed off the Continent.I think it is simply incorrect to say that fascism “seeks to subjugate normal people and transfigure freaks.” The fascists rejected the sexual freakishness of Weimar. They sought to use the power of the state for the benefit of their own people and their own workers, not foreigners and globalists and international money-changers and speculators. They desired that their women would marry and have offspring for the future of their people. They sought to expel the freaks, not elevate them. they sought to defend their own borders from foreign encroachment.There are many criticisms of fascism, but these general concepts are 100% sound.
Ostei Kozelskii #411871 July 3, 2024 8:29 pm 3
I don’t dispute the similarities between communism and democracy. However, as we’ve all made abundantly clear on this site, AINO’s co-called “democracy” is a total sham and a mere fig leaf for the polity’s vested interests–corporations, Hollywood, the media, academia, and the federal government itself. Just as America is no longer America, its democracy is no longer a democracy, if it ever was one, although I believe it came much closer to that ideal in the past than it does now. Therefore, if we don’t have a communist state, nor a real democracy, what do we have?As regards the perverse nature of facism, note that I use the modifier “postmodern.” AINO’s version of fascism is different from Nazi and classical fascism in that it is underpinned by postmodern relativism, which means, among other things, that it does not espouse the cultural traditionalism of 20th-century fascist states. Quite the opposite–it promulgates sexual perversity, depravity, and diversity. But it is indeed fascism in that it its chief structures–government, cultural institutions, corporations–are utterly unified, its foreign policy is hawkish and expansionary (Nazi Germany sought to conquer all lands inhabited by descendants of Germanic peoples), it is chauvinistic toward its chosen people–negroes and pervs, chiefly–and hostile to its designated foe–whites.
Mycale #411703 July 3, 2024 9:35 am 22
All of the things that liberals have been whining about with regards to SCOTUS the past few years could be addressed by Congress. In fact, Congress did address one, when, in a truly stunning show of bipartisan unity, it legalized gay “marriage.” Overall though, liberals cannot get major buy-in on their agenda and they know it. The entire liberal, progressive, globohomo project – the arc of history, as King Obama called it, is built on the accumulation and expression of power. Changing the laws doesn’t matter when you have no means to execute the laws. Marijuana was de facto legalized in cities like NYC when DAs said they would not charge people for it anymore, long before the legislature stepped in. Conservatives can write articles about those stupid crazy liberals who want to ban gas stoves, but the liberals will do it anyway. A judge can tell colleges it is illegal to discriminate against Whites, but if they can discriminate against Whites with no consequences, they will keep doing it. The only way to stop them is to make them face consequences, or take power and sideline them. I think that some people are starting to come to realize this – for example, Ron DeSantis, for all his faults as a politician, understands this as a governor.
3g4me #411736 July 3, 2024 10:20 am 11
” . . . liberals cannot get major buy-in on their agenda and they know it.”That’s the same as saying “WE have all the guns.” And just as false. They have money and power beyond mere national borders. They have full time activists dedicated to rooting you out and with the patience of decades to corrupt your institutions and coopt your children. They have coordination and experience with igniting civil unrest. BLM? Covid? Venezuelan criminals?“We” have frightened, neutered people with the docility of sheep.
Mycale #411737 July 3, 2024 10:24 am 13
I feel like you are saying the same thing I am. What you are describing is institutional power, not buy-in from the people they rule over. Remember that gay “marriage” flamed out every time it was put to referendum, including, famously, in California. What did Democrats do, they used their institutional power to implement it anyway. If you went around in 2013 and asked parents if they wanted drag queens to rub up on their kids in the library, or teach the wonders of gay anal sex in 3rd grade, what would it poll? Doesn’t matter.
pyrrhus #411674 July 3, 2024 8:26 am 22
Indeed, overturning Chevron is momentous, a much more important decision than Dobbs, which overturned Roe v.Wade….We had been aware that Roberts, and one or two other conservatives, had been looking for this opportunity for some time, and the perfect case of overreach showed up…In the past, the Court had sometimes deplored the abuse of power by the EPA and other agencies, but generally just remanded the cases…Z-man’s very pointed comparison to the civil rights cases is outstanding…If a lunch counter in Atlanta is in interstate commerce, then everything is….Thank you, Justice Douglas and the rest of FDR’s hacks…
DLS #411695 July 3, 2024 9:25 am 5
Agree. The moral claim they used to justify this is that the lunch counter owner goes beyond his circle of friends, and opens his business to the general public. Thus, if he allows in strangers, he is not really choosing his acquaintances and cannot discriminate. Fair enough, but it still ain’t interstate commerce.
Ostei Kozelskii #411744 July 3, 2024 10:31 am 2
But if he discriminates based upon race, or some other visible sign, he is choosing his acquaintances. He’s choosing to acquaint himself with whites, nuggras, women, freaks dressed like the Snuppalupagus, or whatever.
Coalclinker #411769 July 3, 2024 11:21 am 12
The only problem is, before the foolishness enabled by Chevron is completely disassembled, the country will utterly collapse and dissolve long before. It’s about 40 years too late.
Intelligent Dasein #411694 July 3, 2024 9:24 am 14
This ruling has literally saved your life. The green agenda, the EV mandates, and the administrative war on oil and coal would have destroyed the economy, killed off most of humanity, and reduced the survivors to living like beasts if it had been implemented. Now we have the legal means to stop it, and the well-heeled energy companies are sure to have their lawyers on the case even now. A prayer of thanks for the SCOTUS.One of the few bright spots going forward is that America still has enough carbon fuel in the ground to supply a relatively prosperous, autarkic state for a few more centuries, as long as it is used responsibly. Centering the political economy around this reality is the most important long-term project for realistic dissident thinkers to undertake.
usNthem #411672 July 3, 2024 8:10 am 13
There now over 200,000 pages in the code of federal regulations…. This is the problem in a nutshell and while these rulings are a good start, it’ll probably take decades to achieve any meaningful results. As many have opined around here, reform with regards to the managerial state is impossible. Something far more significant is going to have to occur for any semblance of sanity and reasonableness to return.
Epaminondas #411675 July 3, 2024 8:27 am 15
“…it’ll probably take decades to achieve any meaningful results.” This is exactly right. And we don’t have decades. We have at most just a few years. It will take something a little more explosive than law to rid ourselves of these petty tyrants and sycophants.
Alzaebo #411750 July 3, 2024 10:44 am 2
#Project2025!“If Trump is corninated King, millions of Americans will be illegally invading Mexico to escape Trump’s extermination camps.” ~ some nonwhite female “If biden had any balls he’d just tweet out “Execute Order 66″” ~ some gender-indeterminate Redditor “It is impossible to overstate how f*cking stupid Sonia Sotomayor is.The real question is, did she cry after she wrote this.” ~ Julie Kelly No really, how comewe’realways the ones scared of what they’ll do to us?A purge of the traitors by the Unitary Executive is now declared Constitutional, legal, and most importantly, moral. Bukele for VP!
DLS #411706 July 3, 2024 9:38 am 10
This is exactly right. To overturn a regulation, the injured party will have to start in lower courts, which will simply not follow this ruling, and then appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. That takes a lot of time and money.
Compsci #411788 July 3, 2024 11:56 am 10
Not to mention the financial risks. You get a “wetland violation” with a $32k daily fine which continues to accrue during your appeals and after a couple of years in the system, you wind up with your entire worth resting on a win. This is in and of itself criminal punishment without conviction of any crime.
Horace #411753 July 3, 2024 10:49 am 12
Brilliant work, Z. This is an important development.This is all too little, too late. I say this as someone whose ancestors were Americans before we had our own state, whose earliest American ancestors had grandsons who fought in our Revolution: the American experiment has failed. Maybe we can salvage the Bill of Rights, but we must return to hierarchical ethnocentrism. Reformation attempts should be seen as prelude to dissolution and separation.The two primary contenders for power over Americans are both Jewish projects (organized and led by, but not entirely comprised of) and can be abstractly labeled as the ‘genocide the Europeans faction’ (Soros faction) and the ‘planetary empire ruled through financial institutions faction’ (Breitbart faction). The Supreme Court is not some independent entity. When they undertake reforms, it is because they are being prodded to do so. The attempt to dismantle the administrate state is, like the revocation of Roe, an attempt by the Empire faction to stabilize the collapsing American system. They don’t want their white human cattle dead, but politically neutralized via minority status and busy creating wealth that can be taxed and serving as regime enforcers. So, our fate is death is the Soros Faction wins, and slavery if the Breitbart Faction wins. The whole thing needs to burn.
Hemid #411793 July 3, 2024 12:11 pm 3
Breitbart has become too insignificant to name anything after, and it too wants your death—if that’s what Israel wants. “Musk faction” instead. He’s an open advocate of increasing the population and enslaving it in a stagnant techno-surveillance hell forever.
Jack Dobson #411676 July 3, 2024 8:27 am 12
These rulings in pursuit of reducing the managerial state to mere bureaucracy may not look like much, but they threaten the moral authority of managerialism. Rule by experts no longer make sense when experts can be challenged. This may one day give people room to salvage whatever is left of the American experiment.Agree with all of that excerpt except the implication the American experiment can be salvaged. It died long ago. Still, CHEVRON’s long overdue death is much like relocating away from diversity in that it provides a modicum of relief in the interim. To add just a bit, the right to judicial review also will mean courts are clogged even more and judges may come down hard on agencies that promulgate rules that blatantly are unlawful, a common occurrence now. Additionally, the more insidious and outrageous excesses no longer can be hidden. You touch on it, but some of the more shocking rules and regulations are promulgated by people even dumber than members of Congress.It cannot be overstated how important this ruling is. The administrative state probably cannot be rolled back at this point, but it has been checked. The system is full of bureaucratic Andrew Jacksons, who will take the attitude of “they made the law, let them enforce it.” That’s good, actually, because it diminishes the system even more. At some point, likely soon, the State no longer will be able to project power as it does now, and constantly being on thin ice will make it all the harder and accelerate the process. It is a lawless society, of course, and laws no longer matter but just a hint of fear helps.I see things happening now that, if they had happened even as recently as 30 years ago, might have reversed course. Again, they do slow and mitigate the damage enough to provide some breathing room until it all comes crashing down. I’ll take it.
DLS #411699 July 3, 2024 9:30 am 6
I disagree that anyone is dumber than the members of congress. The regulators are worse in that they are clever zealots. I do agree the American experiment is over. We can’t go back to 1859, but can only forge something new from the rubble.
Alzaebo #411745 July 3, 2024 10:34 am 7
It does chart a new course between Scylla and Charybdis. If a black Supreme gets the credit, that’s cool. If the civnats get the credit for pulling this off without bloodshed, that’s cool. If the Constitutionalists get the credit for lawfare not warfare, that’s cool too.Right now the triumph of the Dissidents over the established Conservatives isn’t in the cards…but it certainly is gaining momentum. MAGA populism is a reform movement, a quieter revolution; it’s a judo throw of Soros color revolutions, it flips them on their head. Popular morality versus forced morality has the tide behind its back.Maybe, just maybe, they can learn to work with us, and we with them.This must be what the post-Reconstruction South looked like. They were forced into an accomodation, and they found one that lasted for generations. White people can make anything work.
Jack Dobson #411755 July 3, 2024 10:50 am 3
Spot on, great comment. Take relief where you can find it.
RealityRules #411836 July 3, 2024 3:50 pm 2
Agreed. Well said Alzaebo.
Jeffrey Zoar #411686 July 3, 2024 9:01 am 10
The way I’ve felt this week, is this how leftists felt back when the Warren court was taking a wrecking ball to the republic? Probably not, because I’m still kind of in disbelief/hearing footsteps/waiting on the other shoe to drop. Shell shock, I think it used to be called.
Din C Nuttin #411787 July 3, 2024 11:53 am 9
“We can’t vote our way out of this” yet voting for Trump rather than Hillary gave us a Supreme Court that is making inroads against the bureaucracy.
Ostei Kozelskii #411802 July 3, 2024 12:21 pm 6
Touche. SC appointments are the one area in which voting really does seem to make a difference.
The Wild Geese Howard #411870 July 3, 2024 8:18 pm 3
Trump also managed to appoint quite a few solid judges at the Appeals court level that have been able to halt or even reverse some pieces of the prog lunacy.
Diversity Heretic #411741 July 3, 2024 10:27 am 9
I worked in an administrative agency for about seven years back in the 1990s-2000s, so I have some experience with rule making and interpretation of statutes. I wonder the extent to which the recent decision will apply to rulemaking under the Administrative Procedures Act. Rulemaking under that Act is referred to as “informal,” although in practice it’s rather complex. The agency publishes a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the Federal Register. As the Z-man correctly observes, only people with a particular interest read this, but only interested persons and groups are likely to participate in the next stage of the rulemaking, which is public comment. After the agency has collected the public comments, it must make record showing that it considered the public comments and then it is free to promulgate its final rule. (In practice, the agency may consider the comments and issue a new Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, restarting the comments process. Once a final rule is issued, parties who do not like the result can ask for judicial review. In such a case the reviewing court will look to see if the record developed by the administrative agency supports the final rule. Traditionally, this scope of review was deferential to the agency–the court would only declare the rule invalid if it found that the agency’s rule was arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of discretion. That standard is very deferential to the agency, but it at least requires that the agency go through the statutory notice and comment process.Although it may offend some people on this blog, this is not such a bad way to make law. The public has to be given notice of the agency action, the agency has to consider comments, and demonstrate that it considered comments and there is the possibility of judicial review at the end of the process. In the case of Congress, if you get 50% plus one in the House and Senate, you’ve got your law, whatever skullduggery was involved in getting it passed. And as the Z-man has also correctly pointed out, although there is possibility of voting House members and senators out of office, in practice that is an empty threat.Another example of possible court deference to agency interpretation of a statute may simply be a case where the agency is seeking to enforce a statute and the target of the enforcement disagrees with the agency’s interpretation of the statute. Here is where I think that the Court’s decision is most likely to apply. Under Chevron, the courts were supposed to defer to the agency interpretation, even if the court would have reached a different result. Now the court is free to substitute its interpretation of the statute and reject the agency’s interpretation. I suspect that courts will be more inclined to give the agency’s interpretation greater weight where it has gone through a full-blown rulemaking, but that is something that will have to be worked out. I also wonder if the decision applies to court interpretations of agency regulations, but that’s something that will also have to be worked out.The “deference to agency interpretation” doctrine arose partially because Article III judges are generalists. They may be trying a murder case one week and a patent infringement case the next. There are only a few specialized courts in the federal system: the Tax Court, admiralty courts, and perhaps some others. Since a judge was a generalist, it wasn’t too unreasonable to give some deference to people who specialize in an area. Although I can’t prove it, I rather suspect judges on the Tax Court were less inclined than Article III judges to defer to the IRS interpretation of a tax statute–the Tax Court judges worked ever day with the Internal Revenue Code and had just as much expertise with it as did the IRS.I think what may be driving the Supreme Court in this case is their feeling that agency officials are no longer “bloodless technocrats,” simply lending their technical expertise to a statute, but rather players with an agenda. As players with a policy agenda, reviewing courts should give their interpretations of the statutes that they administer no particular deference.Insofar as private discrimination is concerned, the mischief really began with Shelly v. Kramer (decided in 1947, I believe), in which the Court found restrictive covenants keeping blacks or Jews out of neighborhoods unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment, because the enforcement of such covenants would be in the courts and the courts were administered by the state, to which the 14th Amendment applied. It was wrongly decided and a twisted interpretation of the 14th Amendment, but it enabled the Court to reach the policy result it wanted. It’s been downhill ever since.
Jeffrey Zoar #411746 July 3, 2024 10:35 am 6
Kind of like the Constitution itself, the old way of doing this worked so long as most everybody was operating from similar values/ideology. Once, as you note, the bureaucrats are no longer bloodless technocrats, but rather activists with an agenda, and want to force you by bureaucratic fiat to drive a car that runs on unicorn farts or force your kid to be taught sodomy in kindergarten, then here we are.
Compsci #411781 July 3, 2024 11:35 am 4
Sigh. Heretic, your thoughtful posting is a very good analysis of exactly how the situation stood before SCOTUS decision. It deserves upvotes, not downvotes. Let’s not kill the messenger here.
Jack Dobson #411801 July 3, 2024 12:20 pm 1
Great explainer there. You are close to right, too. When the APA was drafted back in 1946, the country was a 90 percent white nation that in fact did somewhat respect the rule of law. The idea that the “bloodless technocrats” would impose political preferences was dismissed at the time. That may have been naive even then, but it certainly no longer is the case. Administrative judges are blatant political officers at this point.
AnotherAnon #411808 July 3, 2024 12:51 pm 4
The NRA vs. Vullo is a pretty good example of how far one single activist bur-o-crat can abuse agency power before getting his/her/its chain yanked. The Supremes actually did a decent job here in oral arguments (except the wise Latina).In a similar vain, the current case of Trump vs US rather neatly reflects the sorry state of reality, which is that the bureaucratic state’s cheerleaders abuse the traditional guardrails in order to unleash the raw power of the state on political opponents. What were the traditional guardrails? Well, a system of comity that everyone understood (and did not need to have it splained).So now the SC has to invent some new principle whole cloth – crafting an interpretation preserving (presumably) full presidential immunity for official acts while avoiding a brute force monitoring situation requiring unwieldy minute-by-minute scrutiny.In other words, the country is becoming ungovernable and being reduced to a lesser degree of civilization.
Zulu Juliet #411810 July 3, 2024 12:59 pm 4
Excellent comment, and if the bureaucrats were a few “bloodless technocrats” you are correct that regulatory procedure it is a superior way to make law than leaving it to the circus of creeps that is Congress.But, as you correctly observe, the bureaucrats are neither bloodless nor technocrats. They have their own agendas outside the common good, most prominently the accrual of scope, power and perminence for their agency.You are also correct that the voters rarely hold their congressmen accountable, but nothing at all is holding these bureaucrats accountable. And to be clear, congress is really just a worthless theatre act that can only pass so many bills in a given year: They have given their meaningful legislative power to the Executive agencies. The agencies are numerous and vast and promulgate far more law and regulations that Congress could ever.Untold thousands of unaccountable bureaucrats with defacto legitlative, executive and judicial power (the process is the punishment) is no way to run a republic at all.
anon #411874 July 3, 2024 10:42 pm 1
>Under Chevron, the courts were supposed to defer to the agency interpretation, even if the court would have reached a different result. Supposed to… but in practice, the courts could always “find” that the statute was clear when they disliked the agency’s rule, or ambiguous when they liked the agency’s rule. Overruling Chevron just means the court needs to write a few more paragraphs to get the result they want in the 2nd case.
Compsci #411743 July 3, 2024 10:30 am 7
“Second, companies and industries can now go into the courts for redress. They can challenge the expertise of the regulators and the process used by the agencies to make policy.”This is the big one. We need to see how the decision plays out in the lower courts.“By the People: Rebuilding Liberty Without Permission” by Charles Murray was published on May 12, 2015. He does a pretty good job of outlining the problem. All Courts heretofore deferred to the bureaucratic agency’s in house “appeals” process. Until these options were exhausted, redress in the Courts was denied. There was also the presumption that the bureaucratic appeals process was in essence “due process”, so the Courts were satisfied you were given your due, and they mostly would deny your suit.Now to the average person, allowing a government bureaucracy to “judge” its own actions is absurd on its face, but that’s how the process worked. This is a good decision.
Yakov Blotnik #411729 July 3, 2024 10:09 am 6
But is it good-for-the-Jews or no-good-for-the-Jews?
Alzaebo #411709 July 3, 2024 9:43 am 6
Heh! Imagine a world where the administrative state is reduced to “One Weird Trick” ads. Skip right past!
RealityRules #411834 July 3, 2024 3:42 pm 5
At this point we seem damned if we do, damned if we don’t. The elision between this ruling and the demographic disaster may not be fortuitous. It is conceivable that now that non-whites are a majority and that the white shitlibs are utterly insane, that Congress could go on a bender and just codify the administrative state into law.Moreover, we find ourselves with regards to the university and corporate led White/American/European male pogrom dependent upon the letter of the Civil Rights law. In fact we find ourselves in a situation where we can use disparate impact to burn the institutions instituting the pogrom to the ground. I don’t understand why the actors and writers guilds in advertsing, film and television haven’t fired up massive disparate impact lawsuits. After all, Amazon films, all of Hollywood and the entire Madison Ave media supply chain have decimated white and particularly white male employment. Their exposure to disparate impact lawsuits is massive.In any case, this opens the spector for massive anti-White institutions in advertising, film, TV … … to just go ahead and pass laws legalizing anti-White exclusion in the name of diversity. Now, this would put them in the position of explicitly lobbying Congress for these laws. However, back to our demographic situation, they may have the votes and the loyal customer base to get away with it.The Beautiful Losers better get a talent infusion as well as a disposition and posture change. It is time to go on the war path, as well as figure out tactics and strategies that will dismantle the anti-White legal regime.One light of hope that this case does open up, is that this may lessen the power of the Left which has moved to control the judiciary with massive numbers of rabid anti-White POCs on the bench.For our part, we have to act as if all that is left of the American experiment is the American people. Of course, as the experimenters, we are America. We need to be focused on how we can salvage ourselves and those of our kind who want to be saved. I am optimistic on that front. I encourage all of you to find IRL people and activities. They are everywhere the minute you start looking for them. Our salvation is in our hands.We are going into mono-European/American cultural mode.It is going to a massive transformation and a huge change. Gentiles are going to be hated for that far more than they already are because we are going to play the leading role at the center of that change. It is a huge change but it must be done. For without it, European man and his civilization will not survive.
what #411683 July 3, 2024 8:56 am 4
The end of “Chevron” is one of those decisions that is coming 40 years too late to matter.It is going to hamstring any potential for Trump #2 to use vigorous government action to go after the left and deport (as if that was going to happen anyway).The recent ruling will be used by the left from 2025-2029 to thwart the last gasp of Republican power. Then its significance will be jettisoned through one way or the other when the demographics lock the left into power.The only way to “Save America” is through a radical wielding of power to expel invaders and prosecute powerful elites. Thus, this ruling now only decreases the chances of vigorous executive action from already infinitesimally low chances.
DLS #411702 July 3, 2024 9:34 am 4
The difference regarding expelling invaders is that this is explicitly the will of congress expressed in the laws it wrote. Thus, Trump’s administrative state should not be hamstrung by this ruling. Mass deportations won’t happen for other reasons, but not because of this ruling.
Mycale #411715 July 3, 2024 9:49 am 4
The way the laws are written with regards to the homeland invasion are pretty clear-cut – the executive has both the power and obligation to do so. The fact that, for the past 60 years or so, the executive has not done so, comes down in part to the “deference” that is being talked about here.
Alzaebo #411757 July 3, 2024 10:55 am 1
Hol’ up, people! Man’s got a point. They’re already demanding drone strikes on Mar-a-lago while Biden’s still in office.
TempoNick #411662 July 3, 2024 7:38 am 4
“That is not what happened, and we have suffered a half century of demographic collapse as a result of the court imposing a new moral framework.” Oh, that’s a great point I never thought of before. By blowing up naturally occurring social patterns, you’ve also blown up the way people meet and mate? Is that what you’re trying to get at?
thezman #411670 July 3, 2024 8:09 am 36
The reason we cannot defend ourselves against a mass invasion is that it has been made immoral to operate any sort of closed association, so everyone gets access to white societies. This is why every conservative blabbers about opposing illegal immigration and loving legal immigration.
DLS #411708 July 3, 2024 9:42 am 9
Thanks, I wasn’t clear on that as well. Makes perfect sense. The greatest con job in American history was convincing the public that mixing completely different people together somehow makes us stronger.
Ostei Kozelskii #411748 July 3, 2024 10:42 am 7
Actually, I think your point applies as well. The CRA’s significance wasn’t only about exposing America to the predations of the Third World. It was also, as you say, about destroying a form of civil society many centuries in the building. Not only were we required to regard hordes of Somalis no differently from ranks of Norwegians, we were required welcome domestic nuggras into home and hearth, doing fearful violence to our social fabric in the process.
Ostei Kozelskii #411823 July 3, 2024 2:12 pm 2
This comment was meant for TN.
TempoNick #411829 July 3, 2024 2:59 pm 2
It’s not only violence, it’s also that you’re just in an alien environment. It’s manufactured fun as opposed to being with your own kind such as maybe a social function like what what a lot of ethnic Church parishes have, where it’s just some more friendly environment where you feel like you’re more at home.
Ostei Kozelskii #411839 July 3, 2024 4:02 pm 4
Yes, that’s part of civil society, which the CRA and diversity destroyed. We are all much at ease with sympathetic people and uneasy around hostile peoples. The power structure has ringed whites with hostile tribes, condemned us for noticing the dismal new environment, and prevented us from defending ourselves. Quite the situation, huh?
Chet Rollins #411700 July 3, 2024 9:32 am 5
The whittling of freedom of association started with ruling covenant contracts unconstitutional, and the ethnic cleansing that happened in the cities because of it.
Ben the Layabout #411841 July 3, 2024 4:38 pm 3
Jeff Childers, a Florida attorney, had several comments on his blog about the recent Supreme Court decisions.https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/devastating-tuesday-july-2-2024-c
Ostei Kozelskii #411733 July 3, 2024 10:16 am 3
These high-potency 10,000 IU white pills have got me to feeling all giddy and mesmerized!
KingKong #412117 July 5, 2024 10:47 am 2
Experts are the people who get the small things right and tje big things wrongs. It’s why their ideas always lead to disaster in the long run. I’m glad to see the expertocracy get some much needed pushback. A deep cleansing à le Augean stable is needed in the government.
Walrus Aurelius #411875 July 3, 2024 10:53 pm 1
I’m just glad that I and my fellow tradies are free of OSHA’s useless tyrant, at least for a day
Tim Condon #412286 July 8, 2024 1:08 pm 0
Doomberg suggests Loper Bright May be a pyrrhic victory. Chevron was initially hated by environmentalists and loved by by conservatives for giving Reagan’s conservative appointees more power to enforce legislation like the Clean Air Act. The professional environmental/DEI left quickly learned to love Chevron and will do the same with Loper Bright.
Filthie #411679 July 3, 2024 8:29 am 0
“For the same reason our coins have ridges, bills coming out of Congress will have to come with specifics, rather than pages of esoteric language designed to give the administrative state unlimited power to craft new rules.” ? Evil jews…?
Steve #411728 July 3, 2024 10:08 am 11
Our coins are ridged on the perimeters (I believe the actual term is “knurled”) because European coinage is smooth and since coins back then were made from gold and silver, unscrupulous people would “chisel” the outer parts of the coin to keep the metal. If you’ve ever heard the epithet “chiseler”, this was an insult used to describe a cheapskate.our coinage was knurled on the edges in order to prevent this from happening.
Filthie #411731 July 3, 2024 10:15 am 8
I spend too much time on Gab, Steve. I heard all that described as “coin clipping”… and guess who became famous for it in the Middle Ages…😂👍
Steve #411811 July 3, 2024 1:13 pm 0
I knew that if I didn’t mention it, someone else would! I believe it started in Spain. My brother uses the term all the time. One day he was discussing someone who had gypped him and a friend of his out of something and he called the guy a “gleebling”. Is asked him what that meant and he said, “Someone so friggen cheap, they’re light years beyond chiseler!”🤣
Ben the Layabout #411865 July 3, 2024 6:46 pm 1
Mostly correct. I’d differ on the verb:clip: “pare the edge of (a coin), especially illicitly.” (Source: Google). Here’s some fun trivia: not all that many centuries ago, clipping was punishable by death some places. For all practical purposes that definition is obsolete; to the best of my knowledge, circulating gold coins died in the 1930s (Roosevelt’s devaluation of the dollar finishing off what WW I had begun) and silver exited the international stage in the early 1960s. All we have now is base metal (collector’s coins excluded, of course, but I’ll be happy to accept that $50 gold Eagle at face, if you insist…) It generally would be irrational to clip base metal coins. On the other hand, perversely it costs the U.S. mint more to produce a cent and maybe some of the other coins than their stated face values (or so I’ve read). Pro tip: You’ll probably have better yield stripping the wiring and pipes from unoccupied buildings than clipping coins!
Compsci #411761 July 3, 2024 11:03 am 4
Still somewhat missing the point. The government empowered the “alphabet” agencies to “fill in the details” in their enabling law. The myriad things—just the good ones—are so numerous as to defy specificity at the Congressional Bill/Law level. Even if they were relatively smart people, which they are not, it can’t be done. The result should be less regulation and enforcement, and that’s a relief. But I’m not hopeful. The Fed’s will always overreach as long as Congress contains progressives. Look for the courts to now spend their time chipping away at the SCOTUS decision.
Alzaebo #411805 July 3, 2024 12:35 pm -2
Hey, maybe… web: “JFK was your last “elected” president…Since then the US has openly, for the non-blind, been a fascist oligarchy.” So if the USSR lasted 70 years…maybe all we need do is make it through the next 10, and then the next 30 after that, and we’ll have our Putin revival!
TempoNick #411664 July 3, 2024 7:48 am -11
“Getting a light bulb ban through Congress, for example, never would have happened.”Although nobody liked the light bulb ban at the time, don’t you need to push people into things sometimes? As far as I’m concerned those curly fluorescent bulbs were crap, but they work quickly replaced with LED lights, which are superior to both.“Rich people have been bribing Congress for generations and America presently has the worst class of rich people since the French Revolution, so it means lots of terrible laws from Congress. The difference is that this stuff will be out in the open where now it is in the shadows, allowing both Congress and its wealthy owners to play dumb and pretend to be something other than odious carbuncles strip-mining the middle-class.”Transparency is about the most we can ask for. It’s not only congressman that are simpletons, but the American public is full of simpletons as well. The move from the farm to the cities and spending too much time watching and believing what you see on the Jew Tube has killed off whatever self-preservation instincts the average American had.
Coalclinker #411665 July 3, 2024 7:59 am 31
” As far as I’m concerned those curly fluorescent bulbs were crap, but they work quickly replaced with LED lights, which are superior to both.”That’s what they said before they forced this upon us, but all of their new light bulbs are Made in China, so they burn out about as quick as the old incandescents, and cost more.And I am sick and tired of having to look for one that puts out as much light as an old 100 Watt bulb. They seem stuck on 75 Watts for everyone. I supposed we don’t need to read anything that might make them look bad.
TempoNick #411666 July 3, 2024 8:05 am -9
However, with commercial lighting, LEDs have also replaced mercury vapor, which gives off an awful light and sodium vapor, which gives off an awful orange hue. Metal halide is also disappearing. Metal halide didn’t give off such bad light, but LEDs are still superior. Who knows? We may actually like electric cars when they finally succeed in forcing them on us.
Ben the Layabout #411677 July 3, 2024 8:28 am 6
LED street lights, when they fail, also have the novel effect of turning into a black* light. At least that’s what I’ve seen around Tampa. And the failure rate looks fairly high, to judge by the frequency of the psychedelic illumination. *I don’t know the technical details, but I find it curious that they only seem to fail as blue, not the other colors that are required to make white light.
DLS #411719 July 3, 2024 9:51 am 7
It was easy to invent red and yellow LED lights, but blue was extremely difficult. There are good youtube videos on the inventor that figured it out, and how that opened the color spectrum to almost infinity. This transformed LEDs from being simple red/yellow indicator lights, to the unbelievable color arrays in modern electronic displays.
Alzaebo #411783 July 3, 2024 11:44 am 3
Is that what those weird purple streetlights in Florida are?They’re kinda cool, but strange.
TempoNick #411794 July 3, 2024 12:12 pm 1
The ones I use around here start blinking when they are failing. I generally like the highway lighting they’ve been using. It’s a lot easier on the eyes than what they used to have. And I think it uses 25% of the electricity of sodium vapor. If you notice such things, and I am the kind of person who notices these things, they also look good on gas canopies. Nice, pleasant lighting.
Paintersforms #411688 July 3, 2024 9:07 am 8
Ebikes are taking over, ecars not so much.I’m OK with ebikes, especially for cargo bikes. If I wanted a cargo bike, it would be electric, but for getting around, I’d still rather have the workout. The reason they’re booming is that they make riding less laborious (work, yuck), and existing battery tech will give you an adequate range for a bike, so you don’t have to stop in the middle of a trip and charge. Ecars have neither of these advantages, so far.Absent a revolution in battery tech, I don’t see ecars catching on. They’ve been trying them since the 19th century, in spite of the whiz-bang marketing.
Alzaebo #411762 July 3, 2024 11:03 am 0
Actually, Edison had a popular sodium battery e-car in 1926; it can’t catch fire, is not toxic, and could go up to 1000 miles at 45 mph on a charge. So of course the Rockefeller gang made sure it got nowhere, the same as farm-produced ethanol* which powered 1/3 of the Midwest’s tractors. *(100% ethanol has no tuoluide “sniffing glue” or bitumen vapor coating everything, water vapor exhaust. Everything called Green today is poison, deliberate poison.)
Ben the Layabout #411844 July 3, 2024 4:47 pm 4
I can’t speak for catching on, but “catching fire” seems to be a clear and present danger for larger Li-Ion batteries. The overall rate may be fairly low, but there have been some dramatic news stories and a few deaths too I believe. I’m not a chemist, but seems to me that there may need to be tighter safety and insurance regulations about storing indoors what is only a step or two down from a Thermite incendiary device. The fact that most this crap comes from Third World nations not known for scrupulous safety standards is a factor, too.
Hemid #411691 July 3, 2024 9:18 am 12
Preferring LED to sodium light is the surest brainwashed “bugman” tell. Retvrn to flip phone before your manboobs start dispensing soy milk.
3g4me #411740 July 3, 2024 10:26 am 4
Hemid: Hisroots are showing.
Ostei Kozelskii #411754 July 3, 2024 10:50 am 0
Ha ha ha. Personally, I’ve gone back to the old rotary phone and my poor wife doesn’t get much sleep as a result. (-;
Compsci #411765 July 3, 2024 11:14 am 7
Don’t put down the flip phone. I recommend such to parents for their children to use. The so called “smart phone” allows the world access to your child.
DLS #411786 July 3, 2024 11:48 am 5
That’s a great idea. It never made sense to give your 10 year old access to porn just so they can contact you in an emergency.
Ben the Layabout #411847 July 3, 2024 4:55 pm 1
“Dad! When do I go through puberty so I can fully enjoy this?”
Ben the Layabout #411846 July 3, 2024 4:54 pm 3
For an equivalent light output, LED use a small fraction of what an incandescent would, and (I believe) more efficient than old school fluorescent, which is why the last couple “fluorescent” fixtures I’ve bought were actually LED. Arguments that LED’s bluish light may cause eye problems may have merit, but I believe these apply mainly to computer screens, TVs too maybe.
DLS #411712 July 3, 2024 9:46 am 7
I cannot think of any examples where they forced something good on us that would have succeeded anyway. I can think of many examples of the opposite.
Mow Noname #411782 July 3, 2024 11:42 am 2
Banning smoking in airplanes. The only government regulation I can truly say made my life better.
TempoNick #411797 July 3, 2024 12:15 pm 3
Yes, and when they banned it in bars and restaurants. People in these kinds of crowds were complaining about the Constitution and all that, including me. As far as I’m concerned, turned out okay.
Paintersforms #411817 July 3, 2024 2:01 pm 3
Health benefits aside, it’s turning bars into restaurants that close at 10, and that kind of sucks.
TempoNick #411830 July 3, 2024 3:04 pm 0
Yeah, but isn’t this the same crowd that makes fun of libertarians thinking that the market will solve all problems? And there’s also extreme libertarianism that holds TPTB have every right to muzzle us because my thought crimes are being expressed on a privately owned network.
Ben the Layabout #411851 July 3, 2024 5:00 pm 0
I’m confused by your 2nd statement. Perhaps you are being facetious and I miss it. A libertarian, extreme or not, would be against (nearly) all forms of government regulation, and surely abridgment of freedom of speech would be near the top of the list. Thus, your second statement is illogical.
Alzaebo #411760 July 3, 2024 10:59 am 0
Who is this, Gallagher? The front rows better get their plastic sheets up before he starts sledgehammering watermelons and smashing pumpkins.
pyrrhus #411682 July 3, 2024 8:31 am 7
Yes, the old incandescents were the best and the cheapest…We stocked up at the time, and are still using them…
TempoNick #411831 July 3, 2024 3:05 pm 1
1800s technology.
Andrew #411696 July 3, 2024 9:28 am 3
My experience with LEDs must be very different because I put LED bulbs in all my fixtures when I moved into my current house 4 years ago and haven’t replaced one yet. I remember have to change incandescents at least once a year back when we were using them. I bought LEDs at $15 for a 24-pack. The cheapest I ever bought incandescents was 3 for $2. So, not only are the LEDs more durable, but nominally cheaper.
Ostei Kozelskii #411756 July 3, 2024 10:51 am 4
That certainly flies in the face of my experience. My LEDs used to fail at about the same rate as the old incands.
Compsci #411774 July 3, 2024 11:29 am 3
This might be a symptom of bad power feed. I’ve replaced very few LED lights for failure, but mostly because of light quality—brightness and color. It’s still a Wild West out there with China. What they print on the box wrt spec’s often bears little resemblance to reality. Try to match up two bulbs purchased across time and manufacturers. I simply replace all bulbs.Also, as I’ve noted before, electricity savings via LED and CFL is much less than the Fed’s estimated. Why? Because the cheaper the lighting cost, the more you tend to install and use. This is noted by many economists.When I was young, we made a point to turn off lights when we left the room. Now we light up most rooms for esthetic purposes and leave them on until bedtime. All without a second thought—and that doesn’t include the outdoor lighting. That stays on even longer.
james wilson #411833 July 3, 2024 3:21 pm 1
The Chinese, and they are all Chinese, distributors and their factories are extremely erratic in quality. They buy from different factories offering different deals and quality is no issue with them.
Alzaebo #411763 July 3, 2024 11:11 am 1
Subliminal flicker and blue-light radiation. Electronic lighting is an unhealthy, unnatural spectrum. The Bugman spectrum, like ghastly fluorescents. Still, you do got a point. What’s missing is the “being forced” part by insane, evil, cartel criminals. All they need is a crack in the door. I have a gal in the family that ran a tanning booth salon. Most of her customers actually came in for medicinal reasons. Sent in by the doctors, too. It is somewhat astonishing the range of conditions that can be treated with light spectra, (and sound, and subsound.)
Alzaebo #411771 July 3, 2024 11:26 am 7
Addendum on the “sound, and subsound” part.This is why the Evil Ones waged a quiet war on…bells.Cast bronze and iron bells, all around the world. Nearly all the bells worldwide were smelted down for the “necessity” to make into bullets for the World Wars.The last bell-maker forge in Britain, in operation for 350 years, was arbitrarily shut down, millenia of arcane knowledge lost to us, generations of fathers teaching sons in the grand tradition.Why would the Evil Ones do this?Because of harmony. The harmonic vibrations of the church bells aligned literally every cell of every body within hearing to their soothing vibratory frequency. Tranquility, equanimity, solace came from those bells. Thus, they must be replaced by the Lord of War, and Terror.
Mow Noname #411785 July 3, 2024 11:45 am 0
The bells in my church were blessed before they were installed. Not sure if that is just a wacky Catholic thing…
Ben the Layabout #411853 July 3, 2024 5:18 pm 2
Incandescents flicker at 60 Hz (or 50 Hz), sometimes visibly. LED requires DC which “in theory” should not flicker at all*. I’m not an engineer, but I did have a background in electronics tells me that the LED element itself has a service life approaching infinity for all practical purposes. Far more failure prone is the power supply. In the case of a bulb that’ll likely be a Buck converter. Enhancing “failure prone” is the fact that perhaps with the exception of specialist or military grade gear, all this stuff is built to a low price point by third world nations with third world standards. The result is junk, but it’s cheap junk. We just throw out the old and screw in a new. Sadly, the consumer really doesn’t have a choice anymore in most situations.*Unless they’re designed to! For example, the LED screen you are most likely viewing this on has a refresh rate; that means it is not constantly “on.” If you have a Paleolithic LED display, like a 1970s calculator, if you shook it you’d observe a marquee effect with the digits. It was quite the trippy** effect if you weren’t expecting it. That was a design choice: the LEDs would have been perfectly happy to stay lit constantly, but flashing them at 30 times/sec. (or whatever) reduces power requirements. On second thought, perhaps LED for lighting flickers too. But it doesn’t have to.**Hey, an LED trip instead of LSD. Far out, man.
Gideon #411779 July 3, 2024 11:34 am 1
Filament LEDs are a decent replacement for traditional incandescents in terms of aesthetics and light distribution, but I have to agree with Kozelski in regards to longevity. Instead of the filament burning out in anincandescent, it’s probably the transformer that goes in an LED. Could both be instances of built-in obsolescence?
TempoNick #411800 July 3, 2024 12:19 pm 0
I bought this at Menards for the garage, I think it’s great. Much better than the fluorescents I had in there. https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/light-bulbs/led-light-bulbs/gt-lite-750-watt-equivalent-4-panel-daylight-led-light-bulb/gt-bu-g150a/p-1642874257895123-c-7482.htm?exp=false
Compsci #411764 July 3, 2024 11:11 am 3
“Although nobody liked the light bulb ban at the time, don’t you need to push people into things sometimes? As far as I’m concerned those curly fluorescent bulbs were crap, but they work quickly replaced with LED lights, which are superior to both.”This explains your downvotes, Nick. The government decided it knew better than the market and forced CFL technology. By the time of the Inc ban, CFL’s were dead in the market and LED had been perfected—with no government promotion via law. The issue here is not one technology vs another, it’s that the government got involved in choosing winners in a capitalistic economy.Similar argument being now made for EV vehicles. I bought one, but would never promote it via penalty of law, or public subsidized cost.
thezman #411667 July 3, 2024 8:07 am 37
This is the broken windows fallacy. If the LED bulbs were truly better, there would be no need to ban normal bulbs. The jury is still out on the alleged superiority of LED. In my experience, you have to use more of them to get the same effect as from incandescent. There is also the issue of blue light being hard on human eyes.Regardless, the light bulb scam is a great example of how the system works. The bulb makers saw a huge windfall, so they backed this scheme while pretending to feet drag. Meanwhile, there was no public debate and no way to generate one because the decision was made by people taking bribes in a backroom.
mmack #411680 July 3, 2024 8:29 am 23
If the LED bulbs were truly better, there would be no need to ban normal bulbs. The jury is still out on the alleged superiority of LED.Now do automobiles. Haul the EPA and NHTSA into court and kill the CAFE regulations and these EV diktats!Sorry Elon, better hope SpaceX and X bring in more cash. 😏If I want a Big Ol’ Car powered by a Big Honking V8 and have the money to pay for the gasoline that powers it, then By Goodness I want to have said automobile and drive it.Likewise, if I want a parsimonious gas sipper with a tiny turbo 3 cylinder and a hybrid system that gets 60 MPG then By Goodness let me have that as well.
thezman #411705 July 3, 2024 9:37 am 18
Cars are a great example of the lunacy of the system. We cannot buy a normal truck for home use, because the regs force the car makers into making pickup trucks into hillbilly Cadillacs.
mmack #411717 July 3, 2024 9:51 am 11
Agreed. We cannot have sedans or coupes that fit people and their belongings (groceries, luggage, etc.) because we must get 500 miles to a Dixie cup of gasoline so people buy CUVs and SUVs and pickup trucks with a shrinking bed and a growing cab to the point a pickup is just a sedan with the trunk lid removed.(As an aside I rode in the back seat of a friend’s new Nissan CUV within the last week. Legroom, what was that? Didn’t CARS used to have that?)Gone are the days of my cheap Chevrolet pickup with a rubber floormat, manual windows and door locks, black painted bumpers, and a nearly eight foot long bed that one didn’t need a stepladder to reach over the bedsides.But we have EVs that can go 0-60 MPH in 2 seconds! 2 SECONDS!Just ignore the fact it takes 30 minutes to get the battery 80% charged. 😏
Paintersforms #411689 July 3, 2024 9:11 am 6
2700K (iirc) LEDs. Close to incandescent color. I’ve been using them for 8 years. Maybe 2 have burned out so far. Not bad, not clearly better, but they do draw less power.
thezman #411701 July 3, 2024 9:34 am 8
I have a mix in the new place. The thing is, the cost difference is still significant. The lights above my kitchen cabinets are the recessed jobs. The LED model is $25. The prior owner left about a dozen incandescent bulbs, so I am good for a while, but I tested one LED and it is not as bright as the others. I am not opposed to LED. I do worry about the blue light issue with them. I would like to have the choice.
Paintersforms #411767 July 3, 2024 11:17 am 0
Yeah, it’s a race to see if LED price drops faster than electric bills rise lol. And the blue light is awful. I bought a couple of ‘daylight’ bulbs initially because they were cheaper and promptly returned them.
DLS #411721 July 3, 2024 9:55 am 12
The same thing happened with all the “smart appliances”, like washing machines that automatically determine how much water you are allowed to use. The manufacturers were happy to go along because they could add a shitty electronic panel and charge twice as much, and then sell you a new one when the electronic panel breaks.
Ostei Kozelskii #411758 July 3, 2024 10:55 am 11
Everything in AINO is a bloody scam wrapped in a racket inside a scheme. But, hey, capitalism…
Paintersforms #411777 July 3, 2024 11:30 am 5
Speed Queen or die! Time to start trolling laundromats for obsolete equipment.
3g4me #411784 July 3, 2024 11:44 am 4
Paintersform: That was another reason we bought our property – our too-small house came with a one-year old Speed Queen washer and dryer. Still working just fine.
Ben the Layabout #411855 July 3, 2024 5:35 pm 2
My earlier blatantly pro-LED posts notwithstanding, I’m fully in agreement. Automation has its place, but it has no place some places. Your example of a washing machine is one of those. I have an acquaintance who is an early adopter. I visit a couple times a year. The BMW i3 was cool; he could start it via wi-fi, or maybe his phone. At the time he had awashing machinethat had f—kingwi-fi!!!I was never clear on what the value of it was, but I suppose one got an email or a text on one’s phone that the load cycle had ended. I forget the details, but I think he had connectivity issues (imagine that!) We both have Alexas. They’re useful for some tasks, but when you start buying the light bubs and other accessories, at some point you’ve gone over the top. I’m to some degree a lover of gadgetry myself but was more so in my youth. As I age, I’ve come to appreciate the relative simplicity of the slightly older technology. I’m not ready to go back to taking my laundry down to the nearest river and pound it with a rock. But on the other hand, I’ve made it this far through my life with 1960s or even 1950s level controls on my major appliances. In a similar vein, I’ve always enjoyed the microwave, but rarely use any of the fancy programs or other features. Time and power level suffice.
Zulu Juliet #411812 July 3, 2024 1:20 pm 0
I have a dragon’s hoard of incandescent bulbs, including the coveted 100w, but I am all in on LEDs. It was dumb luck that LEDs came in time to keeps us from having to use those awful twisties.I am burning through the stash of incandescents. I will not lament when the stash is gone. All my work bench fluorescents have been replaced with LED strips. The LEDs are far brighter and slimmer. Some of the LED setups are supersonic cool.LEDs for my aquariums are the Word: They are programmed for a dim orange sunrise, transitioning to full daylight and ending in a cool blue twilight.All you LED naysayers probably think scratchy old LPs, with all the dust warpage, needles and need to flip the record, are superior to CDs or MP3s.
Guest #411693 July 3, 2024 9:19 am 8
Nudge your way back to Chicago, Mr. Sunstein.
3g4me #411738 July 3, 2024 10:24 am 1
TempoNick: Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt.
Ostei Kozelskii #411751 July 3, 2024 10:47 am 1
I hate the new light bulbs. The light they emit is ghastly. The wife and I have stocked up on the old incandescents so we don’t have to be bathed in wan and pallid emanations.
Compsci #411795 July 3, 2024 12:12 pm 1
Try and learn about the LED color ratings and variations. It’s a pain, and I’ve spent about twice as much as with the old Inc bulbs via LED toss outs, but I’ve set up the entire house with only LED. Especially useful are dimmable LED lights. It was a project after the house move that kept me busy. But that’s just me, I had time and money to spend.Alternatively, you can just say the hell with it and save aggravation. 😉Addition/correction: I have a reading light by the bed that’s 3-way Inc. I have simply not found a suitable LED to replace it. The old eyes are a strange thing these days. I have however bought a case of replacement bulbs just in case the Fed’s decide to outlaw those as well.
Zulu Juliet #411813 July 3, 2024 1:24 pm 0
Many LEDs are programmable to set whatever tone you find pleasing.
Ostei Kozelskii #411825 July 3, 2024 2:27 pm 1
What do you mean by tone? Brightness or color? Brightness is not the issue for me; color is. And from my experience, the baleful light of LEDs makes everybody look like something from a Boris Karloff horror flick.
Ben the Layabout #411856 July 3, 2024 5:45 pm 1
Color temperature is the technical term. As with old-fashioned lighting, LED should be available in a range of color temperatures from ‘warm” (reddish) to “cool” (bluish) and several in between. Thus, you have the option of skin tone looking like an albino’s corpse to a feather Indian and many more. Note to racists: Don’t try a “black” light; it’ll make you look purple.
Ostei Kozelskii #411867 July 3, 2024 6:54 pm 0
Hm. I shall have to repair to LED Emporium. I have not noticed such choices on offer at the grocery store where I shop for bubs.
c matt #411807 July 3, 2024 12:49 pm 1
Kind of mixed thoughts on the LED v Incand. LED do use less power, and the range of light color (as well as effects) is nice. Not sure they really last much longer. Also dislike with extreme prejudice the “retro” fit recessed lighting. Having to replace the whole unit rather than just a bulb is a pain in the ass.


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