A Very American Scam

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For fifty years abortion was a part of the national political debate due to the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade. Those who opposed abortion sought to overturn this court decision, thus returning the issue to the people. The pro-life side assumed they could win the argument and get laws passed to end most abortions. The pro-abortion people obviously fought to prevent this, even though they always claimed the vast majority of the people saw abortion as a holy sacrament.

Abortion was always a good money maker for Conservative Inc. because on the one hand, they only had to pay lip service to the moral issue. It was not as if they could pass legislation or change a regulation to meet the demands of their voters. The courts would just strike down those changes. On the other hand, the only path to victory was getting a majority of pro-life people in office, especially the White house, so the courts could be stocked with pro-life judges. That meant voting Republican.

The way the two party grift has worked since the middle of the last century was that the Democrats conjure novel ideas and find creative ways to normalize them with the progressive segment of the population. Once these ideas gain circulation, the Republicans pretend to oppose these new ideas. Both sides squabble over it, thus narrowing the options to their preferred positions. Then they aggressively fundraise off it as the novel ideas are slowly implemented.

The genius of this arrangement is the elites get what they want, while both parties protect themselves from outside threats by sucking all the oxygen out of the room in their endless media debates. With the oxygen comes the money, which keeps both camps in the lifestyle they think they deserve. Just as important, none of that money goes to anyone who has a third opinion. The political rackets rest on every issue being reduce to a binary choice.

Here is where you can see why the ruling class hates Trump. When he ran for office, he went to the pro-life crowd with a rational offer, rather than the old offer they have always got from conservatives. He told them he needed their vote and even though he was not one of them, he would deliver for them because he needed their vote. Social conservatives, outside of the professional ones, saw this as a rational offer and maybe better than what they have gotten for the last fifty years.

In office, Trump did what he saw as the rational thing and set about appointing pro-life judges up and down the system. From his point of view, this made perfect sense as he would need the support of these people in the next election. If he could show he delivered, then they would come out in droves. His good fortune was that things broke in such a way that the court finally overturned Roe. Both parties hate him because of things like this that disrupt the political rackets.

Putting that aside, the overturn of Roe was a disaster for Pro-Life Inc and the elite of the social conservativism rackets. They no longer had this issue to use in their fundraisers, other than to wage battles at the state level. Since the leaders of these rackets live in swanky homes around the imperial capital, heading out to the wilderness to help the Dirt People wage political fights is horrifying. This idea is equivalent to Pol Pot sending the intellectuals out to the rice fields.

Since the court sent the issue back to the states, the people running for national office no longer have a reason to primp and preen about abortion. If the national candidates stop talking about abortion, the associated money rackets no longer have a reason to raise money to help “their candidates.” That means the money givers no longer have a reason to give money to these guys. Suddenly, thanks to Trump, a billion-dollar industry is threatened with extinction. What to do?

This is why we now have the mass media claiming abortion is the most important issue on the minds of voters. If a Democrat wins a race for dog catcher in East Podunk Missouri, the Washington Post has a pic of young females standing in line to vote, with the claim they are there because of abortion. The political experts, who are always wrong about everything, rush in to explain how this is a threat to Trump as women too busy in their cubicles to have sex are furious about abortion.

It is all nonsense, but despite the fact the media is nothing but a firehose of lies, people still fall for these tricks, especially people who call themselves conservative. Integral to being a conservative is accepting without question the opinions of your enemies while endlessly tone policing your supporters. If the New York Times announces that the cool kids are now wearing flowerpots on their heads, conservatives will swear it is true and produce the conservative case for flowerpots.

This is where Conservative Inc. has swung into action on abortion. Their new scheme to re-nationalize the issue is to champion a national ban on abortion. You see, their big idea now that the courts sent the issue back to the states, something conservatives argued for since Roe, is to take it back from the states and pass a bill that bans all abortion at the federal level. Of course, they cannot do this without your support so make your check out to Conservative Inc.

The only way such a scheme could ever happen is if the Republicans had a huge majority in the House, a super-majority in the Senate and had a pro-life president in the White House. Thanks to Republican support for open borders and election rigging, this is now impossible. Even if it did happen, the Bush years tell us that they would fink on their voters anyway. Remember fake evangelical George Bush nominating pro-abortion Harriet Miers to the court?

Abortion is a good example of why moral issues cannot be decided through any sort of democratic process. Even if the process is legitimate and the participants come to the issue in good faith, you will not get universal agreement. If such an agreement were possible, it would have happened organically and then the only politics around the issue would be about the best policy to support the moral consensus. Otherwise, there is no debating someone out of their sense of right and wrong.

This is why the scam that is the American political system loves moral issues like abortion, because they can never be solved politically. This means they can frame it as two sides with neither side ever having a chance to fully win. Roe was manna from heaven for Conservative Inc., but now the overturning of Roe is manna from Gaia for the aging spinsters running the feminism rackets. They can finally stop talking about men in dresses waving their genitals at children.

If one is looking for a white pill in these dark times it is that the abortion issue has finally returned to its natural place. Like all moral issues, it is one that must be decided by the collective agreement of likeminded people. This means it is a local issue. States and localities can then treat abortion the same way they manage other thorny moral issues like the location of gentlemen’s clubs. In the end, sanity prevailed, and abortion has become something for communities to resolve on their own.

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

240 Comments

KingKong #399346 April 11, 2024 0
“it is that the abortion issue has finally returned to its natural place. Like all moral issues, it is one that must be decided by the collective agreement of likeminded people. This means it is a local issue.”It really should just be an individual choice, just as your diet or school choice for your children. Do whatever you like with your body. You want an abortion? Go for it, I am not forcing anyone to raise children they don’t want.Morality is simply tyranny of the majority over personal ethical choices. Simply because a group decides abortion is good or bad, does not mean it is the right or wrong choice for any individual.I look forward to watching human groups dwindle in size. First the ideologues will die. Then the philosophically mind, then the psychological types, the artistic types and finally the mythic elements. Until only the Meek remain, who seem to be the only people who mind their own business and aren’t trying to cajole others into some bullshit moral narrative.
Hokkoda #399335 April 10, 2024 0
The pro lifers really got caught napping in 2022. I think you’ll see much stronger voter participation in future state-level contests. That being said, most outright bans will lose 60-40.The pro lifers need to focus on why abortions are down 30-40% from 1990. Good health care, other contraceptive options, and good old “SCIENCE!” To wit:Bring forward state constitutional amendments guaranteeing every parent free 3D ultrasounds of their baby at 10, 20, 30 and 35 weeks.And another one exempting parents from paying state taxes of any kind FOR LIFE if they raise at least 3 children to the age of majority.And don’t run ads guilting people that abortion is wrong. They already know that. Just run commercials with babies, happy babies and happy parents, lots of them and tag lines like, “Babies…fun to make…”Kill em with kindness.
Paintersforms #399348 April 11, 2024 0
“The pro lifers need to focus on why abortions are down 30-40% from 1990.” That’s a loaded statement! Who/whom lol.
Hokkoda #399351 April 11, 2024 0
I don’t see how it’s a loaded statement…it’s a statement of fact. Abortions were around 1.5M in 1990 and under 1M today. Imagine a campaign involving getting women to quit working and raise families…and then exempting them from taxes (only benefits people who actually pay taxes). So many things in our society would get better if we could get women out of the workforce.
Paintersforms #399464 April 11, 2024 0
1990… I remember it as roughly the peak of Hollywood and MSM, the very end of the Cold War, around the time boomers were finishing having kids, etc. Connect the dots. It was a certain time, a certain outlook, certain people.
Panzernutter #399334 April 10, 2024 0
George Carlin quote , you ever notice that the women who are pro abortion , you wouldn’t want to F#@K anyway. I have to agree with that statement. For the most part.
David Wright #399352 April 11, 2024 0
He never said that.
james wilson #399509 April 11, 2024 0
That was the opening line in one of his acts.
Dutch Boy #399331 April 10, 2024 0
Trump appointed some pro-life judges but he is no social conservative. Life Site News summed him up thus:“A supporter of same-sex “marriage,” Trump nominated a variety of pro-LGBT officials to various government posts and judicial vacancies and continued an Obama-era executive order on “gender identity nondiscrimination” and U.S. support for international recognition of homosexual relations at the United Nations Human Rights Council. His campaign actively courted LGBT-identifying voters with rainbow merchandise.”
Gespenst #399345 April 11, 2024 0
“The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
Intelligent Dasein #399307 April 10, 2024 0
I don’t want to nest another comment but regarding the conversation below, it is necessary to show both that “Who says?” is not an argument and that there is an objective basis for the determination of moral questions.In the first place, “Who says?” is not an ace of trumps in moral argumentation. It is simply a slightly diplomatic way of saying that you don’t care about any possible objections to your actions and you’re going to do as you please, anyhow. Such autocratic declarations place a man outside the sphere of morality to begin with, by making him a law unto himself. You might as well start out by saying, “Morality is bunk.” That may, indeed, be your opinion of it, but it is not an argument against it. It also subtly implies that morality is whatever somebody says it is, which is the exact opposite of reality. Morality is precisely the residuum that remains true and justified apart from anyone’s personal proclivities. It is the person’s job to conform himself to what is moral, not to decide what is moral. Unlike matters of prudential judgment, moral matters are not subject to human choice. Besides which, “Who says” also fails analytically on at least three counts:1. It isn’t deterministic. You can prove absolutely anything you want if your criterion of proof is a personal fiat. Morally speaking, any act whatsoever can be sanctioned or condemned based on nothing but the will of the speaker.2. Suppose someone doesn’t take the question to be rhetorical and actually provides a concrete answer. Who says? Governer Stevens says. There, is that good enough for you? If not, what then? Presumably, you just decide that you’re not under Governor Stevens’ authority if you don’t want to be, and you secede to form a smaller state. Since this process cannot go on indefinitely, at some point you must accept that something is right and must be listened to. You will either accept the morality of somebody else or yourself (if you secede from everybody and get down to the last man), but then on what basis aryousaying it? On what basis are you agreeing? Asking “Who says?” does not absolve you of the necessity of finally settling upon a non-voluntaristic theory of right and wrong, i.e. an objective morality.3. As we we’ve just seen with (2), there is no “smallest feasible unit” in which binding decisions can be made without conflict. What happens when the deciding unit is just one family, just a man and a woman? What happens (as is often the case) when the man wants the woman to abort the child they conceived and she does not want to, orvice versa? To whom can the other party appeal to save the life of his/her child? The smallest feasible unit is the individual, and then we’re right back to, “My body, my choice.”The objective criteria is that one can neverintendto destroy innocent human life. Doing so would violate not only custom or sentiment, but justice itself. Any theory of morality which sanctions such a thing negates the basis of its own existence and analytically cannot be true.
Whosez #399314 April 10, 2024 0
That’s a lot of words. Who says?
Ploppy #399316 April 10, 2024 0
But everyone draws the “human life” line at different points. Liberals don’t consider themselves baby murderers because they don’t think embryos and zygotes are babies yet. Murder itself is a malleable concept, all these zygote loving conservatives also claim Israel has the right to defend itself against all those little children in Gaza.
Xin Loi #399329 April 10, 2024 0
Nice trope, but by the time pregnancy is confirmable, the little critter inside is a lot more than a zygote or an embryo. I agree it is to laugh seeing Pro-Life Inc take a fall here, after misleading their supporters among the Dirt People (I prefer Salt of the Earth People myself) for so long with a promise they knew was a lie.
Gespenst #399322 April 10, 2024 0
“Who says?” is not an argument. It’s a test to see if the person questioned even has an argument.
XLOVELI #399325 April 10, 2024 0
@Intelligent DaseinYou raise some interesting points. Ignore the moron who posted “Who sez,” mocking you. He’s a man of little words because he’s a man of few brain cells.Back to the salient point. I think morality does not exist “in the ether” like the number set and higher mathematics. I think it ENTIRELY a human construct, designed to meet the needs of human cultures and human societies.When you strip away the geegaws, what morality is is a way of regulating the behavior of the citizenry. “Thou Shalt Not” and all that. The 10 Commandments are the perfect example. Morality infuses the conscience with its strong brewed tea, giving one the aroma of rightness, if I may coin a metaphor. Without societal needs to be met, morality falls flat on its face.*dryly, unblinkingly* You can probably tell I’m not a big fan of morality.
Moran ya Simba #399303 April 10, 2024 0
The thing is, without abortion the browning and societal dumbing down happen faster. I haven’t settled on how I’d square a dislike for abortion with these disagreeable trends
Hokkoda #399332 April 10, 2024 0
There’s an old saying among mathematicians in the computer modeling and simulation world, “All models are wrong. Some are useful.” In the same sense, all murders are wrong. Some are useful.
Moran ya Simba #399343 April 10, 2024 0
I can agree with that but that does not remove the dilemma if you want to get rid of abortions and prefer to live in a functioning society
Hokkoda #399350 April 11, 2024 0
I don’t think there’s a correlation. Abortion rates are down 30-40% since 1990. Society is astonishingly worse.This is where the pro lifers are fighting the wrong battle. It’s not abortion vs no abortion.It’s killing people vs. having babies. You won’t get whites to start making babies again until you make it so people can actually see benefit to it. People used to have lots of kids because women stayed home and child mortality was high. To a lesser extent, kids helped bring money into the home or were at least a wash because they could work the farm.This is not directed at you, but I think we have a huge problem getting sucked into always opposing the progs. Pro lifers should be spending all that money talking about having babies, and pushing legislation to exempt parents from taxes if they have 3 or more kids.
tashtego #399336 April 10, 2024 0
That isn’t true, there are plenty of other eugenic methods that would be at least as effective. Offering incentives to self-sterilize while at the same time de-incentivizing bastardy would fix those problems immediately for example. People volunteered themselves and even their children for medical experimentation for the price of a donut.
Moran ya Simba #399342 April 10, 2024 0
You’re confusing the theoretical with the factual. It is true that such measures could theoretically be taken. But they aren’t about to be implemented. So the real world effect of no abortions is likely to be a faster path to white minority and more unemployable and otherwise problematic people being born.
Anson Rhodes #399349 April 11, 2024 0
In terms of absolute numbers, abortion results in the loss of more white babies than black babies (about 50% more in the US, from numbers I just checked) – because there are so many more white women than black women in the population.
DYSPEPSIA GENERATION Blog Archive A Very American Scam #399296 April 10, 2024 0
[…] ZMan turns the cynicism up to 11. […]
Slowpoke #399293 April 10, 2024 0
There were about 18.5k homicides in America in 2023 and about 1MM abortions in the same year. If we assign 100% of those homicides to males, and if we assign agency to women, then women were responsible for about 55x more murders than men were in America last year.
Xman #399295 April 10, 2024 0
Yep. Durkheim made a similar argument when comparing male vs. female homicide rates in France in the 1890s.
Hokkoda #399337 April 10, 2024 0
Anyone who has driven in traffic knows that the most hyper violent people in our society are women under 30.
Krustykurmudgeon #399288 April 10, 2024 0
I’ve tended to lean in the pro- choice direction (though I support third and many second trimester restrictions/bans). Nonetheless a lot of the pro-life people seem like genuinely kind people who oppose abortion in the same way that people care for the weak or for animal welfare. There is a certain vocal (but not very numerous) segment of the pro life community, personified by Richard greenhorn on Twitter and American sun and Ben ziesloft who just want to control people and who probably should take a long walk off a short pier
Zulu Juliet #399283 April 10, 2024 0
Conservative Inc. showed its true colors in 2015 when Planned Parenthood was under siege for selling baby parts. Instead of stripping P.P. funding from the federal budget, Paul Ryan and his gaggle ignored the issue. [FWIW, when I made a donation to a Federal candidate that year and I had to list my employer and profession I put down “Planned Parenthood, Baby Organ Salesman”. Come and get me FEC girly-men!]
Dutch Boy #399330 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion rights long ago was a boutique issue mostly supported by the social elite (AKA, wealthy Republicans) and Jews. The Dems were too dependent on working class Catholics to push it. The 60s saw the Dems start their abandonment of the white working class on the way to becoming a Jewish party and also the party of abortion rights. The GOP has never been able to effectively oppose that agenda because they still contain a large number of influential establishment Republican types who are powerful in the party. Years ago, somebody pointed out that all the Bush men were pro-life and all the women pro-abortion. The Bush men realized running for office in the Republican party as a pro-abortion candidate was fraught with difficulty whereas the Bush ladies had no such problem. So rhetoric rather than conviction has ruled the day. The bottom line is as scripture states it: this people honors me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.
Hokkoda #399338 April 10, 2024 0
That was a deal breaker for me, too. They had PP people flat out lying, provably lying about the sales, and the GOP did nothing. When Trump won the nomination in 2016 and then the election, I told ZMan (over at NRO “The Corner”, lol, humble beginnings) that Trump would prove one of two things: – Conservative Inc and all its promises on abortion, immigration, Obamacare, etc. were lies– they weren’t It didn’t even take a full year for them to implode.
Vxxc #399271 April 10, 2024 0
Accurate with a couple of adjustments;0. Abortion is above all a Litmus Test.1. The body of then young Catholic law students and Lawyers many of whom came from Franciscan college in Ohio in the 90s who staffed DC and the Federalist society weren’t and aren’t grifters, they’re Catholics and devoutly believe abortion is murder. There was absolutely an element of strategy here consciously, it was Catholics marching through the institutions of DC to get abortions stopped or curbed at least. Among those institutions are the important Clerks of the Federal Courts, who write briefs for Judges.They’re middle aged Catholics now, still not rich. This was very different strategy from the past and it was savvy while avoiding corruption. See 2.2. Roe vs Wade was a litmus test for judges as to whether they would be Liberal activists and *anti-business* or Conservative Constructionists who would be less inclined to regulate businesses=THE MONEY FROM BUSINESS FLOWED to “Right To Life.” Now business is “rational” and only cares about business. But now the Federalist Society has a purse, which means politicians.It also means they have a list of Judges they want appointed, which Trump and frankly Mitch McConnell made sure were the judges picked.3. It took decades but eventually you get in particular with ABC a Right to Life Court.You also get lower courts RTL if not judges then clerks. At the same time organically the Republican Party at the State level isn’t phony, and here’s where the Catholics supply brains and Baptists the bodies comes into its own. In the Red States like Arizona and the South Dobbs falls onto not the phonies in DC GOP but actual real people.4. Dobbs has implications for the entire New Deal far beyond abortion and the Democrats and DC know it; Dobbs is the death warrant or at least stage 2 cancer diagnosis for the Administrative State. As we see Abortion remains a litmus test.5. To the extent it pushes power away from DC to the states and elected officials and away from DC then “abortion” remains a important issue.6. So politics remains power not merely money, as Francis Underwood said those who pursue power to get money miss the point.
Jeremy Profitt #399263 April 10, 2024 0
Kudos to Frank Herbert’s Dune series: There’s an uneasy yet penetrating truth when he connects womankind with The Bene Gesserit. And the atavistic determination to carry out their priorities to complete fruition, like in the present-day little lady’s will to abort. (That being said: goodness, character, and higher values do temper and bless the pursuits of woman and man, but goddamn there is a heart of darkness in what people without shame or scruple are demanding. Even as a Prottie, I feel compelled to do the sign of the cross.)
Hokkoda #399333 April 10, 2024 0
Also, h/t to Herbert for elevating the concept of a baby communicating with her mother while still in the womb…I guarantee there is a not small number of harpies on the pro abortion side who wince at reminders like that…Abortion rates have been declining steadily for 34 years:https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/sr_24-03-26_abortion_1/Why? Science!– most women don’t want to have an abortion, and birth control has become cheaper, safer, and more effective– AIDS put a clamp on riskier behaviors– 3D ultrasoundsThe public consensus is that it probably should be allowed in some way, but that it’s wrong to do. Most people aren’t absolutists about it.The bills at the state level the pro lifers should focus on is the elimination of abortion profiteering and elimination of subsidies. Make the moral argument that making a profit to kill babies is wrong, and it’s worse to force everyone else to pay for it.Abortion is as old as human civilization. It’s not going away.
Whiskey #399262 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion is mostly a dead issue as those who care most passionately about it, have passed their window of fertility 40 years ago. It is a small advantage for Democrats, but not the decisive one.The biggest issue is the negative effect of intelligence, ESPECIALLY male intelligence, on fertility. Women abhor intelligence in men, unless it is offset by charisma, and especially cruelty and domination which is a marker of high status.In a very long (more than a few years) struggle like the original Cold War, emphasis will be on promoting more of “loyal” smart guys including reproduction. As elites seek to prevent hostile foreign elites from overthrowing them, they will find out the very well known limitations of mercenaries. Unwilling to fight truly risky battles, prone to pillaging their paymasters and often rival elites themselves: see Prighozin, Wallenstein, etc. The solution to the problem of Mercenaries at the end of the 30 Years War was the institution of national armies and rewarding smart and tough guys with patronage. That patronage in modern times is likely to be “gifting” some attractive and intelligent woman more or less as his forced bride. A regime that can force vax can force babies on unwilling women from chosen men. Bonus: that’s a very cheap way of getting loyalty. And its likely to be for top scientists, engineers, and soldiers on down. Presuming rival elites are not using wooden spears and rocks after the long Cold War goes ultra-nuclear hot.Drones are a big game changer, they neutralize expensive ships, planes, and missile defense when used in sufficient quantities. So too, hypersonic missiles which generate radio absorbing plasma at ultra high speeds which means no radar detection. The counter-measure to this is of course directed energy weapons, at mass scale and using laser, microwave, and particle beam accelerators, done on a mass, cheap, and portable scale. Neither Shaniqua nor Jose Ibarra are going to be of much use there and someone will pick up the crown lying in the gutter with the point of his sword, if you get my drift.This reality has not escaped Xi nor Putin, btw.
fakeemail #399280 April 10, 2024 0
Because women hate, hate, HATE betas! Yes! There is seriously no bigger incentive to a young nice guy then to guarantee him a beautiful teen/early 20s bride. That’d get my vote!
ray #399304 April 10, 2024 0
fakeemail —You could, ah, Fundamentally Transform the U.S. and allied western woke nations merely by outlawing feminism tomorrow, and promising (and providing) young, attractive females to meritorious young men. For LIFELONG marriage and family formation led by the DAD. Not mom. Not the feminist courts. Not the feminist government.Those’d be the same young men who presently, en masse, are abandoning New Amerika and ‘going ghost’ on their tyrannical woke-fem countries. While your daughters steer ships into each other.Nonparticipatum baybee, and if I were a young man in the current U.S. I’d turn my back on it too. A nation that has made it very clear over the past half-decade that it hates maleness, masculinity, fatherhood, whiteness, Christianity, and heterosexuality.American boys and men have been told for a long time they are despised and pointedly not wanted. And now, they are listening. Just wait until Ms. Amerika figgers out that her life will be negatively affected. It’ll all kaboom then.
Intelligent Dasein #399260 April 10, 2024 0
The discussion on federalism is quite the red herring and it obscures the critical points.The “morality” of abortion—and the morality of anything else for, that matter—is defined simply and solely by what it is, not by whether it was legalized at the state level instead of the federal level, or whether people like it or agree with it. Right and wrong are not subject to the whims of a democratic majority, and a consensus can err just as much as an individual can.Abortion is always morally wrong. There can be no two ways about that. Its status as a social issue is entirely due to women’s liberation and feminism, specifically the notion that girls and women should be free to do whatever they want in society with no consequences to themselves. Removing legal access to abortion destroys the matriarchy and restores the patriarchy, and this is why liberals fight it tooth and nail. You would have to be blind not to see it.Being a dissident in today’s world means being 100% opposed to abortion. Every other position is just simping for an earlier iteration of feminism.
thezman #399261 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion is always morally wrong. Who says?
TempoNick #399265 April 10, 2024 0
See my comment below about Jesus and the New Testament. It seems to me that he had plenty of time to make these hot button issues perfectly clear in his time and day. If he or the apostles or the Nicene council or whoever it was to assembled the texts whiffed, that means they didn’t think it was such a big deal.A lot of people have their fingerprints on Christianity back in those days and none of them seemed to want to put a stop to abortion so they are not really a question of biblical teaching. These are all issues where changes of laws have to come about because of evolution of public opinion. The anti-abortion people are never going to get that majority public opinion on their side.Abortions have been going on for thousands of years, at least 2,500 anyway. The period beginning with the late 1800s is when all the do-gooders, people with the same mentality as prohibitionists, started trying to make it illegal. As much as Roe was an offense to the Constitution and to the law, in many ways, it only represented a return to the status quo.Bottom line: you have to win people’s hearts and minds first and it doesn’t appear that that is going to happen.
thezman #399268 April 10, 2024 0
I doubt he answers, but the point is that the authority for such claims is what matters. If you think Scripture prohibits the taking of a human life, that is not debatable if you think Scripture is unquestionable. If it is the first mover when it comes to what we ought and ought not do. Of course, lots of people would reject Scripture as the unquestioned moral authority.This is why his argument is not really an argument and it is political sterile. If everyone agreed with him on the morality of abortion, then the only debate is how best to enforce the ban. Obviously this is not true, which is why we have these endless debates, but the endless debate is proof that there can be no political solution to a moral question. The closest you get one one camp imposes its will on the rest.Therefore the ethical thing to do is reduce this moral issue to the smallest level in order to find moral a census within the basic human communities. This will be different in Louisiana than in New Hampshire, but it produces the most harmonious result.
tashtego #399279 April 10, 2024 0
The assumption that compromise of some kind is more ethical has no more basis in objective truth than that abortion is or isn’t always morally wrong. Neither does lack of general consensus suggest compromise is some objectively best resolution to a moral question. Seeking consensus of the population at large has the arrow of cause and effect backwards. A utilitarian acknowledgement of how things are rather than how we wish they were suggests appeals to traditional authority could be a powerful tool in challenging the moral framework of our political enemies.
thezman #399282 April 10, 2024 0
I do not think “compromise” is the right word here. The people of Louisiana will have different laws regarding abortion than the people of Massachusetts, because these two people have different views on right and wrong. Letting them have these different moral codes is not a compromise. It is peaceful separation. In other words, the choice here is not pro-abortion versus anti-abortion. The choice is peaceful separation versus irreconcilable moral conflict. Ethically, the latter is inferior to the former.
tashtego #399289 April 10, 2024 0
I personally imagine peaceful separation to be preferable but I don’t believe it would be allowed. As you have discussed many times those from whom we would wish to politically separate are animated with a moral imperative that has no bounds.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399300 April 10, 2024 0
Exactly. This is similar to your Natural Rights debate.No, there are no “natural rights;” there are just values that fit a certain community at a certain time.ID is doing what Anton and his crew do. Heck, they even put the word “natural” in the label to trick people.Nature has physical laws that are true at all times in all places. Same with math. But morality isn’t a physical law or math. Morality reflects the cultural values of a people at a certain time and certain place.Once you enter the realm of morality/cultural values, the central question becomes: Says who?You don’t need that with math.
Hokkoda #399341 April 10, 2024 0
And you can move if you don’t like it and it affects you in some way other than living in fear that someone somewhere might be doing something you disagree with.Most surveys show the public is pragmatic about abortion. It’s probably needed if only as a last resort against stupidity. There are far better and less traumatic ways to avoid having children.And as somebody point out higher up in the thread, the target market / abortion demographic is something liberals don’t talk about because of the implications. It does keep the prison population down.I also think most people do believe it to be wrong, in a Ten Commandments “thou shalt not kill” way.And that’s not a uniquely Western/Christian code. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc all have prohibitions on killing the innocent. Many have carve outs.That’s partly why abortion rates have declined so much, but haven’t gone to zero.
Ancient Mason #399277 April 10, 2024 0
While it is not a legal document, the Hippocratic Oath – which goes back a ways from the late 1800s – prohibits abortion.
Intelligent Dasein #399276 April 10, 2024 0
Who says?Nobody says. Nobody says that 2+2=4, either; or, at any rate, the truth or falsity of that proposition is not determined by what anybody says about it—it follows analytically from the definition of the terms—but sane people will accede to it, thereby proving their sanity.Morality, likewise, is something determined analytically. Right and wrong are not determined by consensus or by the dictates of social authority (consensus is just another form of social authority).A lot of people on “this side” are fond of repeating the mantra that “reality is what doesn’t go away when you close your eyes.” Notwithstanding the nonexclusivity of this definition—fantasy doesn’t go away when you close your eyes, either; in fact, it gets stronger—the point is well taken: reality has an independent, substantial existence of tis own and is not bound, in its nature, by anyone’s erroneous subjective reinterpretation.Morality is a subset of reality. Right and wrong pertain to humanactions,but they are not humaninventionsany more than gravity is. Denying this is a category error.
LineInTheSand #399278 April 10, 2024 0
ID, I salute your willingness to get back into the ring, when your perspective may not be the most favored on this website. As white men, and you may chafe at that characterization, we respectfully duke it out in the realm of ideas and all participants in good faith are honored. I guess that you’re wrong about a lot of things, but set yourself on down, bro.
thezman #399281 April 10, 2024 0
This is false, at least with regards to math. We have axioms of mathematics that have been discovered over time and they are the authority for the natural world. Who says 2+2=4? Math says so. Math is the authority of space time, the god of what is.Now, do the same for your claim that abortion is always immoral. What is the authority for this claim? If it is not by census, then from where does your analysis start? What is the unchallengeable axiom you put down on the page as you perform your analysis, reaching the conclusion that abortion is immoral? It is not to be found in math, so what is the authority?
Hemid #399297 April 10, 2024 0
Blue-hair Twitter Jews’ claims that abortion is a sacred rite of Judaism aren’t easily refuted. I might think “But Jews are wrong about everything” is a fine argument (because I’ve met my mother) and Christians might think “Jews are right about everything except [short list]” is convincing (it isn’t), but— If nothing else, Jews have an *older claim* to universal morality than almost everyone does. It’s conservative, both temperamentally and epistemologically, to assume they’re right. And they do agree: Kill the babies.
Ploppy #399313 April 10, 2024 0
I tried using math on this issue but all I came up with was that two wongs don’t make a white.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399301 April 10, 2024 0
“Morality, likewise, is something determined analytically.” At best, it’s determined analytically in the sense of figuring out what morality seems to produce the best results for a certain people at a certain time. But even that can change over time or as the people change. 2+2=4 doesn’t change with time or the people doing the counting.
Giovanni Dannato #399315 April 10, 2024 0
I am deathly tired of single-issue people going on about abortion. I don’t like it either and am pro-life for our own communities but this same tiresome posing has been going on for decades as everything falls apart apace. We are now threatened with multiple civilization-ending crises being overrun by invaders, hyper-inflationary pressures, faced with looming global thermonuclear war, and rampant feminism but to dwell on any of these would be indecorous in polite company.No, instead they must insist the millions of migrant invaders have as many children as can possibly be managed once they get there. But I guess it’s not truly “conservative” without a spectacular self-own.Anyone who is still fixated on abortion as their principal issue, is in my mind at least, totally discredited.
LineInTheSand #399259 April 10, 2024 0
The Palis in Gaza, as gross as they are, are demonstrating the will to live that white people must learn. Life is surprising and humbling.
Giovanni Dannato #399317 April 10, 2024 0
This. The relentless defeatism and sense of resignation needs to go to be replaced by a natural vitality and sense of urgency.The Palestinians may not be the most sophisticated people but they are totally confident in themselves and never question or second guess.
james wilson #399512 April 11, 2024 0
Ah yes but the robust will to live does not present itself without the willingness to die.
FNC1A1 #399256 April 10, 2024 0
The debate here is almost as great as Mr. Z’s post Thank you one and all
tashtego #399252 April 10, 2024 0
I’ve raised this general idea before but it has been a while. Abortion has the same potential for no-compromise polarization and motivation that slavery did. Observing how slavery is used to this day to short-circuit rational discussion and coerce both physically and mentally I am convinced abortion has at least as much potential were it to be taken up and used in the same manner politically. The pro-life advocate need not seek common ground with the baby killer and in fact is morally obligated to seek nothing less than total political dominance over baby killers. Think also of who the most vocal public advocates of baby killing are and how effectively they used moral coercion based on a self serving mythology they created to establish a new legal framework entirely directed toward furthering their tribal interests. Baby killing is a self proclaimed fundamental moral principle of all the factions that compose the set of our enemies, one I believe they will not abandon. The majority of the population is morally primed by the dominant general religious background to sympathize with the anti baby killing pole. Much like there are no shades of grey tolerated around the morality of slavery or white christian political advocacy for that matter, baby killing can be similarly taken up and amplified to motivate the kind of dedicated advocacy required to challenge established power.
Jeffrey Zoar #399269 April 10, 2024 0
I don’t think that’s true. A modest majority, or at least the largest plurality, are pretty much ok with abortion being legal in the first trimester and illegal thereafter. Which is more or less the law in Europe. American leftists are about the only ones hell bent on unlimited access to abortion at all stages of a pregnancy.
tashtego #399285 April 10, 2024 0
I am not offering an opinion on the moral outlook and temperature of the population as it is today. What I’m suggesting is that this topic in particular has great potential for inspiring fervent advocacy and partisanship that could be usefully directed against the people on the other side of the divide as we say around here. I’ve expressed my contempt for the political and moral agency of the general population before. They will think what they are told to think for the most part and especially if it is an idea that resonates with traditional inherited moral strictures.
Giovanni Dannato #399318 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion has been at the forefront of safe, harmless conservative issues for decades and has yet to accomplish much of note.
tashtego #399328 April 10, 2024 0
That’s largely because of the reality of how insincerely abortion is politically utilized today. The whole point of today’s essay really. I am imagining a movement that takes anti-abortion to the same extremes as anti-slavery was taken. It is charged with at least as much potential given the right charismatic and uncompromising leadership. Come to think of it, Lincoln, Brown and everyone in-between weren’t even very charismatic, they were just so sure of their moral correctness they were ready to see hundreds of thousands die in the service of imposing their morality by force.
Jeffrey Zoar #399214 April 10, 2024 0
Since SCOTUS overturned Roe, the Baizuo Financial Complex, aka Lauren Jobs, George Soros, Mackenzie Scott, Reid Hoffman et al, have organized to establish a new “underground railroad” to transport negro women seeking abortions from behind enemy lines in the red states to places where they can get the abortion at baizuo expense. Before SCOTUS did what it did, negro women had to pay for their own abortions and thus frequently did not get them, but now that the bat signal has been lit, every negro woman can get a “free” abortion.In summation, rich white leftists are now paying to abort negro fetuses, and for them it is a moral crusade on the side of the angels. Why would any right wing dissident complain?
TempoNick #399264 April 10, 2024 0
Where can I contribute? The last thing we need is more ferals running around. I’m all for people procreating in the context of a nuclear family, but not under the current conditions of society. In fact, I would give them abortion vouchers. A one-time abortion voucher is cheaper than Obama phones and food stamps for an entire lifetime.
Mr. Generic #399272 April 10, 2024 0
> Why would any right wing dissident complain? Because it’s short-sighted. Any degenerate behavior in the black population that society tolerates will eventually spread to the white population.
TempoNick #399206 April 10, 2024 0
If you want to befuddle Christians, ask them why abortions, which are a 3,000-year-old procedure wasn’t addressed by Jesus in the New Testament? He knew about it and it was hotly debated at the time. If it was so important to jesus, why didn’t he spell it out for us. Of course, they’ll respond with “thou shalt not kill.” But Jesus was supposed to be all knowing and the embodiment of perfection. He should have known that they were stupid people/skeptics like me who need to have it spelled out for them.It seems to me that people are trying to impose the Roman Catholic / Evangelical view on the rest of society, the majority of which doesn’t have those views. It’s also the Orthodox view, but we don’t make political hay out of it.The reality is that laws cannot be drafted to represent a high standard behavior or what is desirable behavior. They always represent the lowest common denominator, the lowest level of behavior that society will tolerate. That’s why prostitution, alcohol, liquor, gambling and practically all other vices are legal or in the process of being legalized. If laws were drafted to only reflect the highest standard of behavior, everybody would be in jail at one time or another.
TempoNick #399227 April 10, 2024 0
^^^ Logical Conclusion: Jesus didn’t care about abortion or he would have spelled it out. If Jesus didn’t care about abortion, why should I?
LineInTheSand #399241 April 10, 2024 0
like slavery, which I think is a bad idea. Tar baby and all… But, like slavery.
TempoNick #399247 April 10, 2024 0
Well, why didn’t Jesus address that one? He didn’t care. In other words, it’s not a biblical commandment that slavery be eliminated, it was eliminated because of societal preference. There is no societal preference for eliminating abortions. The anti-abortion nut jobs are in the minority.
Zfan #399299 April 10, 2024 0
The Didache, or teaching of the Apostles, possibly older than the current forms of the four canonical Gospels, prohibits abortion and the exposure of unwanted infants. I am a former Episcopal priest and convert to Catholicism who from an early age admired the Catholic opposition to abortion and am also old enough to remember when generally Evangelicals preferred to ignore abortion in part because it was not prohibited by Scripture. It has always been a moral matter for the Church, if not for various Protestants who prefer to draw their own conclusions than respect holy tradition.As a priest I taught that abortion is a grave sin knowing that it held me up to ridicule by many and ensured I would never be rector of a large or prosperous parish. As a Catholic layman, I want the Church to stand by the truth and I want politicians to move incrementally in their states to at least ban abortion for sentient unborn children and a ban on any federal funding of abortion, except to preserve the life of a mother. Sure, that is open to interpretation and always has been. We can deal with that while preserving the principle of no murder.I appreciate that my fellow rightists mostly do not brush aside the moral tradition of Christianity
Disruptor #399239 April 10, 2024 0
numbers 5 :11: Y H W H gives Moses an abortion potion.
TempoNick #399309 April 10, 2024 0
@ZFan – that’s all well and good, but we don’t live in a theocracy. Catholic preferences, which aren’t even accepted by a large number of practicing Catholics, let alone the majority of Christians, cannot be imposed on a secular society. Church is in your home and in your house of worship in a secular society. Sure, government can tip its hat to the various religious faiths and the general notion of there being “God”, but when you get down to specifics, the church can’t follow one particular sect’s ideas on this subject.Put another way, Kansas and Ohio have already provided test cases. Two Republican states and the anti-abortion issues went down resoundingly in both states. In Ohio, most people didn’t want anti-abortion radicals imposing draconian laws. That’s where people are at these days. It’s one thing to be philosophically opposed to abortion and it’s another thing to want the government to forbid the procedure. Everybody knows they might need an exit hatch one day.
TempoNick #399310 April 10, 2024 0
^^^ the GOVERNMENT can’t follow one particular sect’s ideas on this subject.
Zfan #399344 April 10, 2024 0
I am American and I presume you are as well. Abortion was illegal throughout the country before the 20th century, though we know it occurred and was rarely prosecuted – mostly in the case of the death of mother- and as far as I know it was never a capital crime. It has always been with us and I would guess that all who read this have family members and/or friends who have been involved in an abortion. It is widespread in our culture, in Western Europe where I lived as a young man, and in East Asia and Latin America where I have close ties. I cannot cite statistics, but it seems that the US had the highest occurrence among Western countries and according to a friend who studied and taught public health and women’s issues we were second only to Russia in prevalence of abortion. That was in the late 90s when the Communist legacy and the the chaos of transition to capitalism made motherhood a heroic choice. The point being that we live in a Christian society, we are a Christian people, and whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox and it is our duty to make our society reflect our faith to the greatest practical degree. That may be the much tighter restrictions of a “secular” Sweden, that not incidentally has a state church and flies a cross , or the until recent near total ban of Poland. I don’t care what Jewish teachings are in this matter— they came to our country, not the reverse. And the secularists and Communists can likewise f’ off.As a practical matter, Christian nations have tolerated a number of vices — to a degree. That may be the best we can do, but like with a number of other matters, suicide and euthanasia for example, I pray we will never agree to consider it a matter of little or no import. If it is embarrassing for the right to be Christian and pro-life, then this White Christian man is in the wrong group. Well before I went to seminary I changed from Republican to pro-life Democrat because all the Republicans I was around in state government laughed at the pro-life Evangelical working class whites who voted for them. I will never support a movement that disavows our God or our peopleWow, what a rant
p #399321 April 10, 2024 0
Because women pregnant outside of marriage were stoned to death, hence–no problem..
Xman #399204 April 10, 2024 0
In many ways the abortion stuff is a false issue obscuring the real questions about the role of women and the role of the Sexual Revolution in modern society.I have always found it interesting that abortion only became an issue a few years after oral contraceptives were invented. Indeed, the precedent for Roe v. Wade that established the bogus “right to privacy” was the case of Griswold v. Connecticut, when Planned Parenthood challenged a state law banning contraceptives.In other words, The Pill made the Sexual Revolution possible, but women proved to be too feckless and insouciant to take it, so they needed to be able the shred the baby as a back-up plan.In any event, the point of the Sexual Revolution is that sexual activity exists solely for the purpose of getting a dopamine high during orgasm, not for reproduction. Consequently the West has become decidedly anti-natalist (and pro-homosexual); all Western governments actively promote abortion, birth control, and feminism, and nearly all of them actively seek to offset declining white fertility by importing Third World nonwhites.This is an incredibly dysgenic and culturally-suicidal path. White society can prosper and survive without female astronauts, without tattooed lesbian state troopers, without female admirals, and without female professors, but it cannot prosper and survive without white offspring.From a Christian perspective, hacking a healthy live baby to death and vacuuming the pulp out of its mother’s uterus is sickening, but it need not be solely a religious issue — it is quite clearly a scientific and evolutionary issue as well.The Bible says that “the meek shall inherit the Earth” …but the science says that the fecund shall inherit the Earth.
LineInTheSand #399213 April 10, 2024 0
“they needed to be able the shred the baby as a back-up plan” Of all of the great surprises of my life, one of the biggest is that women, who supposedly have an innate desire to mother life, would rejoice in killing children in the womb. I’m not the first one to say this, but female nature is nothing like what tradition tells you. This is one case where the wisdom of tradition is simply incorrect. Women are much less admirable than our ancestors told us they were. It’s like a psychic punch to your most vulernable part.
ray #399221 April 10, 2024 0
LITS — Yep. When contained by a masculine society, women are a generative plus, and a delight and help. When ‘liberated’ from all responsibility and consequence, women are chaos and tribulation. Women organized politically are death to civilization. Men desire freedom. Women desire security and safety, for themselves. Largely, they are a herd. It is what it is.
Bwana Simba #399229 April 10, 2024 0
To be fair, a lot of mythology has women labeled as troublemakers The embodiment of all consuming darkness is usually female (Nyx, Morrigan, Izanami, Hel, Lilith, Whore of Babylon, etc.). Unfortunately whites seem prone to simping for women when things stop being tough.The promoter of life has turned out to be men not women. Makes sense, patriarchy promotes stability and reproduction while matriarchy promotes death and chaos. Myth and religion has the sky figure being male and frequently a promoter of the people and fertility. God (whole Trinity)/ Archangel Michael/ Deus/ Perun/ Amon-Ra/ Indra/ Brahman/ Jupiter/ Donner/ All-Father/ etc. Modern/ secular culture inverts this in media with females granting life when ancient cultures showed the opposite.
Ostei Kozelskii #399232 April 10, 2024 0
In the hermetic tradition, the moon is a woman symbol because it is so changeable. The female tendency toward eccentricity and chaos has long been noted.
Pozymandias #399308 April 10, 2024 0
“It is what it is” If more people took this attitude towards things the world would be a saner place. Instead the typical Western attitude has been to assume that if something seems unfair or undesirable we must crusade to get rid of it, usually through legislation and mass movements. This leads directly to utopian notions that there is some demiurge directing all of history towards some omega point. You see this in those sappy leftist bumper stickers on old Volvos about how “the arc of history bends towards justice”, with justice defined as a lot of egalitarian nonsense.
Ostei Kozelskii #399231 April 10, 2024 0
Being able to actually hold the baby is the game-changer. That’s when the maternal instinct really kicks in. Out of sight, on the other hand, out of mind.
Jeffrey Zoar #399233 April 10, 2024 0
They seem to instinctively understand this, in their preference for abortion over adoption.
Hemid #399249 April 10, 2024 0
The only thing I actually learned from looking at crime stats, because I already knew the rest from experience/observation, is that if a kid is dead, its mother killed it (statistically). It’s easy to make up evolutionary excuses for that, but it’s still evidence that men and women are very, very different. Men kill each other, women kill children, and nobody kills women (statistically). We pretend the *exact opposite* is true. Insert evolutionary excuse for that.
Bwana Simba #399270 April 10, 2024 0
Women prey on children all the time. Lots of deviant women out there.. Nearly two centuries ago children were given to the father because it was assumed he was the better caregiver. That all changed in the late 1800s. The whole “maternal instinct” shit is a modern invention.
pyrrhus #399215 April 10, 2024 0
Regardless of the moral issues, the 10th Amendment clearly assigns such issues to be decided by the States..At the time the Constitution was passed, abortion was a crime in every State..So Roe v Wade, one of the worst and most idiotically written SCOTUS decisions in history, had to be reversed, simply on Constitutional grounds..Now if women want an abortion, and it isn’t allowed in their State, they can go to another State where it is allowed….So IMO, as a Constitutional lawyer, a Federal law banning all abortions would be un-Constitutional as well…and will not happen
Xman #399294 April 10, 2024 0
Hah. Yes, you are right that it would be unconstitutional… but just because something is unconstitutional is hardly a guarantee that it “will not happen.”
Oswald Spengler #399191 April 10, 2024 0
“If the New York Times announces that the cool kids are now wearing flowerpots on their heads, conservatives will swear it is true and produce the conservative case for flowerpots.” “Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM
Compsci #399196 April 10, 2024 0
We are *all* “Devo”—as in “devolution” now. Sigh….
Pozymandias #399311 April 10, 2024 0
I couldn’t help but think of those oddball spudboys too.
TempoNick #399188 April 10, 2024 0
“This means it is a local issue. States and localities can then treat abortion the same way they manage other thorny moral issues like the location of gentlemen’s clubs.”After I grew out of my younger, more stupid, pro-life years, this is similar to something I’ve always been saying. This should be decided at the county level or maybe even the way liquor permits are decided by municipality or precinct. If you live in a rural county and don’t want abortions, have at it. If you live in an urban County and need to have access to abortions, that’s good too. If you get all butt hurt by living in one county versus the other because of the abortion issue, move. Problem solved.
Anti-Gnostic #399179 April 10, 2024 0
Nature has practiced eugenics for millions of years. Big-brained humans with their ethical constructs try and stymie it. In the long run , eugenics win. Always.
Geo. Orwell #399169 April 10, 2024 0
Is this an example of our larger dilemma? Given that pro- and con- must remain in disagreement on account of the disagreement being fundamentally moral and not political, what do we see if we widen our view? The same dilemma seems to apply to homosexuality, to child mutilation via “trans surgery,” immigration, endless meddling in other countries’ affairs… Disagreement on formerly salient issues like who pays for medical care and how much now seem almost quaint and not so morally fraught. My point is the central problem inhabitants of North America appear to have is we are composed of morally incompatible factions, maybe as mutually hostile as in the 1860s. We’re not even neatly confined to individual states but often mixed together. On the same block we find evangelicals living next door to gay men playing two daddies with an adopted black kid. At least, I doubt people so fundamentally incompatible would often be close neighbors in the mid-19th century. How can this continue without a separation? Yet it’s one that seems far from achievable.
Jack Dobson #399178 April 10, 2024 0
“trans surgery” Stylebook violation. It is officially “gender-affirming care.”
Mow Knowname #399209 April 10, 2024 0
Wonder why they don’t call it “castration” or “sterilization”?Euphemisms are fun until you end up being the one at the receiving end of “special processing” or “diversity”.
steve w #399287 April 10, 2024 0
And abortion / birth control drugs = “women’s reproductive health”.If abortion, or trans surgery, or homosexuality, are not immoral or depraved, then why all the bizarre circumlocutions? I wonder what they’re calling euthanasia in Canada. Probably not ‘euthanasia’, though even that is a periphrasis for “assisted suicide” (and maybe “strongly encouraged suicide”).When cannibalism becomes the Next Big Thing (around 2035, probably) I wonder what the vegans will do? Will they make an exception? And what will it be called? Certainly not cannibalism, because that evokes images of painted and feathered tribal chieftains of color, raising beating hearts to the sun. Something like “meat justice”, “eco-friendly proteins”, I don’t know – they’ll come up with something at the NYT.
steve w #399292 April 10, 2024 0
And there is an anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJsieUqWlRA
Pozymandias #399312 April 10, 2024 0
Necro. Necrosexuality is the next big thing. Soon we can confidently add an “N” to the rest of the gibberish – LGBTQN.
Compsci #399202 April 10, 2024 0
If evangelicals can—metaphorically—live side by side with immoral neighbors, then I don’t see where they can claim a “love of God”. The most basic premise of the Bible is that to love God is to hate evil. If nothing is evil, then nothing is good.
Hemid #399218 April 10, 2024 0
The evangelicals *are* the gay couple who bought an African to rape. Progress! That aside—I don’t remember his phrasing but one of the few things Nick Land said that anyone understands is that rulers cultivate new disagreements among the people because each new disagreement is a new site of rule. This isn’t just “divide and conquer” or “let’s you and him fight.” Controversy itself is a massive expansion of power.One day there was no dispute over whether kids’ genitals should be sawed off to tickle the fetishes of their mothers and teachers. The next day there was, and from that day on not only did that dispute determine who’s on which side of *other* disputes (as a Marxist might observe), but the disposition of child penis and the fetishes of mother and teacher and [etc.] all entered the realm of *ruled things*.Abortion likewise. It’s outside of our memory, but there was a time when, though there were rules about it, it wasn’t *ruled*—when it was a material phenomenon, not a concept that serves power.
ray #399154 April 10, 2024 0
Keen analysis of the Uniparty grift. You grok it. As for the no-hope GOPe, it should be exterminated with prejudice.‘The political experts, who are always wrong about everything, rush in to explain how this is a threat to Trump as women too busy in their cubicles to have sex are furious about abortion.It is all nonsense. . . .’Hardly. Abortion IS the core issue amongst U.S. women, because its widespread availability signals a society so subjugated to feminism and gynocentrism that it will make it ‘legal’ to slaughter children in the womb, then part-out the leavings for profit and call it all liberation, progress, and equality.Politically, women are driven first and foremost by having, and expanding, ‘women’s rights’, which in practice is an endless void of ever-expanding selfishness, destruction of societal and ethical norms, and plain old evil.God decides moral issues, not The Almighty People. God hates the American abortion industry, He hates the American divorce industry, He hates the Uniparty, and He isn’t too fond of the U.S. in general right now, considering it the global leader in wickedness and rebellion against Him. And that’s saying a lot, looking around this planet.
Ostei Kozelskii #399171 April 10, 2024 0
If God truly loathes AINO, I wish he’d get on with showing it by lobbing a few mighty thunderbolts at Wall Street, Harvard, DC and Hollywood.
Compsci #399210 April 10, 2024 0
I get where you are coming from, but in my understanding, that’s not the way it works. The stories in the Bible have shown that God allows his people to suffer the consequences of their folly, but always afterwards forgives and accepts them back as they repent of their folly. Unfortunately we have not yet begun to learn—much less repent—from our folly and that entails much suffering ahead.
Ostei Kozelskii #399237 April 10, 2024 0
Yeah. I intentionally conflated the Christian god with Zeus and other rash, vengeful deities. Our foes could use a right proper smiting from a nasty Greek god.
ray #399340 April 10, 2024 0
Compsci — This is my understanding also.
ray #399339 April 10, 2024 0
O.K. — I share your sentiment and tend towards Old Testament solutions also. Deal with it and move forward. The Boss is letting evil ‘come to its fullness’ kind of like the way a boil must come to a head before lancing. Seems there’s a lotta evil to get full! lol
Lucius Sulla #399174 April 10, 2024 0
Having been born in 1980, it is a minor miracle that I survived the womb. 1/3rd of those conceived in 1980 were aborted, and 70% of those abortions were committed by white women. There has never in the history of the world been a more deadly place than a modern woman’s womb. Not even Auschwitz! An infant crawling across no man’s land at Verdun would have been more likely to survive than a soul in a modern woman’s womb.
Severian #399190 April 10, 2024 0
I agree that it IS a problem for “Trump,” and that women *are* “pro-abortion,” but not for anything involving “women’s rights.” It’s so much simpler and dumber: Women are herd animals, and “abortion” is a fashion statement, nothing more. Being overheard questioning the sanctity of “abortion” is like being photographed wearing last season’s shoes — a social faux pas which can never be lived down, with which all the other hens will torment her to the very end of her days.
Compsci #399216 April 10, 2024 0
It’s the emotionality of the issue to be sure for women. If one thought about what the true effect of all these changes wrt forcing women having to have a baby against her wishes, she’d ignore the issue. In truth, it’s a non issue in today’s modern society. Even ignoring available for all contraception and chemical abortive, physical abortion on demand is not in danger. At worse, it’s a bus ticket away.
Vaari #399235 April 10, 2024 0
Couldn’t agree more Ray. When at least half of the women in the US (probably more than half in Canada) think that the biggest political issue is being able the snuff your child conceived during a bad mating decision, there really isn’t much hope for your society. They are convinced they are intellectually and “morally” superior to those that disagree with them. It really does show that you live in a post Christian society where the moral basis for right and wrong has been totally destroyed. These are the people running all of society’s institutions. God help us.
RDittmar #399153 April 10, 2024 0
I think the grift of which you speak encompasses far more than just the abortion issue. Con., Inc. absolutely loves judicial activism. Every time some crazy left-wing court issues an insane opinion, the grifters on the right can fundraise off of opposition to it. At the same time, the court has ruled and “separation of powers” and Muh’ Principals requires we respect the ruling! We can’t really do anything about it now but we can hope to appoint a judge to overturn it at some unknown time in the future. This reliable grift is why the Senate always approves the appointment of even the craziest left-winger to the bench by 90-10 vote margins. The “right” even joins in by regularly nominating t*rds like Roberts that will reliably vote with the left because theyareleftists trying to pass as right-wing for purposes of career advancement.I’ve always thought that regular resort to the Andrew Jackson option was the only hope we had of ending this grift and ending court meddling in general. The abortion issue was tough, because it would be real sketchy for the executive toarrestsomeone for doing what the court rules is legal. On the other hand if the court demands that the executive/legislature do something (raise taxes and build new schools for instance in a notorious Kansas case), the other branches can just say “No. Try and do it yourself.”. Courts would be a lot less likely to do stuff like this if it got regularly laughed off and ignored by the only people who could do anything about it.
Tars Tarkus #399195 April 10, 2024 0
It’s not just the insane judicial rulings they like, it’s being the opposition party they like the most. They can posture and preen about everything being powerless to actually do anything. When their vote doesn’t count because they are outnumbered, they vote the right way. They then run home to their community and brag about their voting record and how they are the most conservative member of Congress. But when their votes actually matter, when the Democrats don’t have the votes, the cuckold arises and gives the finger to his voters.
Jannie #399149 April 10, 2024 0
Good article, and why Clarence Thomas is perhaps the greatest living American hero. I never thought I’d see the day when that evil human sacrifice practice was abolished. Pro-abortion people to me sound like the pro-slavery folks from the 1800s.
LineInTheSand #399152 April 10, 2024 0
Do you really believe that Clarence Thomas is “the greatest living American hero?” I don’t want to disparage the man. He’s awesome. Best of his breed.. But the greatest? Please consider that you may say things like this because there is a part of your psychology that still craves affirmation from people who want to kill you.
Ostei Kozelskii #399175 April 10, 2024 0
MLK was the greatest American hero of the past. Clarence Thomas is the current greatest American hero. And Candace Owens will heft that mantle once Thomas exchanges his robe for a bed jacket and a case of Milk of Magnesia. It’s nuggras all the way down the line. Always.
Jack Dobson #399194 April 10, 2024 0
Black Labrodors are the greatest Labrodors.
Jannie #399211 April 10, 2024 0
On our side of the divide, we shouldn’t discount heroes because they are Black or not White. Give praise where it’s due. Oh wait! I feel that Antarctic ice pack a-tremblin’, Hans! Der Based Aryan Superman ariseth!
Jannie #399207 April 10, 2024 0
Name one better. Clarence Thomas actually went ahead and did what nobody else had the courage to do and overturned Roe vs Wade. I never thought I’d see it in my lifetime. Absolutely huge.
Jeffrey Zoar #399240 April 10, 2024 0
How or why does this distinguish him from Kavanaugh, Barrett, Gorsuch, or Alito?
Ostei Kozelskii #399243 April 10, 2024 0
Yeah! What IS his distinguishing feature? For the life of me, I just can’t imagine…
Ostei Kozelskii #399242 April 10, 2024 0
Did it all on his own, did he? That’s some trick! I recant. Up goes a poster of Thomas dressed as Superman on my bedroom wall.
Compsci #399219 April 10, 2024 0
Greatest, or currently pretty outstanding. Just as long as we do not make the fatal mistake of ignoring contributions simply because of skin color. “Through all my teachers I am made wiser. “
Gespenst #399236 April 10, 2024 0
“Best of his breed.” Some people just can’t help it.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399155 April 10, 2024 0
Clarence Thomas seems like a fine man, but he’s most definitely not the greatest living American hero. If he wasn’t black, he wouldn’t be on the Supreme Court. He’d be a very solid lawyer and maybe a middle-tier judge somewhere. Stop accepting the morality of those who hate you. If you want a great Supreme Court justice look no farther than Scalia. He would run rings around liberal justices’ arguments, crushing them and mocking them with ease. All the while, weaving beautifully tight arguments that they would refuse to address because they couldn’t refute.
Eloi #399165 April 10, 2024 0
Scalia’s written dissents (for they more often were) are simply a masterclass in writing with logic, style, and grace. Too bad he was killed in a brothel.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399180 April 10, 2024 0
He would build a logical trap. There just was no escape. The best part was that he’d mock the shit out the liberal justices as he built the trap.
Tars Tarkus #399203 April 10, 2024 0
I agree. Thomas seems like a decent man, but he is not the greatest living American. He is the Thomas Sowell of legal theory, vastly overrated because of his race. He should auction off the next place he wants to live as a neighbor. White people would bid up his “black neighbor card” (a promise to move next door to the winner of the auction) into the millions.
Compsci #399224 April 10, 2024 0
Again, denigration is not a plus here. Sowell has a record of published economic conclusions/understanding/wisdom via his books that exceeds just about every other academic in the field of economics. The benefit of Sowell’s race has less to do with him than disingenuous Whites who wish to tout a “conservative Black intellectual” for their purposes. However, that was not Sowell’s entire career. He was a He was a Catholic HS school graduate, a Marine in the 50’s, a grad student at the University of Chicago, an employee at the Fed, then a Professor at Cornell University—all before AA took hold.
Tars Tarkus #399250 April 10, 2024 0
There are 10k random White people who can spout all the libertarianism Sowell spouts.I’m not putting him down, I’m putting in perspective. Sowell is and has always been one of the e black guys they drag out to claim liberal schemes to “help” blacks are the cause of black dysfunction.He’s a solid guy that gets way more credit than is earned due to his race and a lot of his views on race. Same with Walter Williams.They are celebrities because they are black. If they were not celebrities, they would likely be working economists either in academia or business. Competent men, but that’s it. They are only celebrities because they are black.I am not denigrating them. I am merely putting them in perspective. Both got famous claiming progressive policies cause the problems in their community. Both claim minimum wage is a tool of White supremacy. Both claim unions wanted minimum wage so blacks could not be hired so much cheaper (at a market wage), thus taking money and jobs from the union people. A lot of what both of them say are variations of this. This is the reason we know their names and not some other economists’ names.
Jannie #399217 April 10, 2024 0
That’s nice about Scalia. Great legal minds are admirable. But the “facts on the ground” are that Clarence Thomas actually overturned Roe. We need to applaud real deeds rather than hot air. Which is why I have a problem with the constant sniping against Rufo on here. Biden and the Dems understand facts on the ground – which is why they’re flooding the country with (soon-to-be-boting) illegals.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399274 April 10, 2024 0
Scalia was dead. What did you want him to do? Vote from the grave. If he had been on the court, he absolutely would have voted to overturn Roe. As to Rufo, I agree. I respect that he gets stuff done on the ground. Even if he’s not exactly on our side, he’s moving the ball in the right direction.
3g4me #399158 April 10, 2024 0
Jannie: I don’t know if there’s a version of Godwin’s Law with regard’s to slavery, but there ought to be. How many logical fallacies does this equate to? Strawman? False Dilemma?
Jannie #399176 April 10, 2024 0
I think the slavery-abortion comparison is valid. Except killing defenseless babies is far worse than providing lifelong job security and free, employer-funded healthcare.
Tars Tarkus #399220 April 10, 2024 0
Ryan Faulk did a deep dive into slavery. Assuming he is correct, slavery as we “know” it is a pack of lies. Most of Europe had a lower standard of living than did American blacks under slavery. They were taller, they lived longer, they had a higher literacy rate and weighed more than Eastern Europeans.There are records of federal government interviews with freed slaves from the close of the Civil War into the 1930s. Most of the evils of slavery (outside of just being a slave) are a pack of lies.Even today in 2024, white on black sexual assault is at most in the 10s most years and as low as ZERO in others. Yet, we are supposed to believe that our male ancestors were doing this in the 18th and 19th century! Plus, we have the survey data from the slaves themselves. It was exceedingly rare.Every slave movie has a sadistic blood curdling beating on the slightest pretext. Again, the survey data does not bear this out. It makes no sense. Beating a slave 1/2 to death would be incredibly stupid in the 17th,18th and 19th century. There was no antibiotics. A minor break in the skin can turn into death. Slaves cost a fortune and risking their lives was likely only done in the most extreme circumstances.We also have the fact that many, many slaves simply became employees after the civil war. In many important ways, being an employee of a plantation was far worse than being a slave. You went from being a plantation asset to a replaceable “back.” If you got sick, master had a good incentive to get you medical care. He had a great incentive to feed you well. But after slavery, if you starve, well, that’s your problem. If you get injured on the job.. your problem.
Eloi #399226 April 10, 2024 0
Look, I despise your average diverse section as much as the other. But, seriously, if you don’t think that some slave-masters were cruel because the slaves were valuable, then why do people abuse their farm animals, including workhorses?
Ostei Kozelskii #399244 April 10, 2024 0
“Some” being the key word. To hear the morality play of AINO, you’d think every dam’ slave owner was Baal constantly stabbing his barbed tail into the backs of innocent slaves just to get his sadistic jollies.
Tars Tarkus #399253 April 10, 2024 0
Yes, some probably were exceedingly cruel. They’re called outliers. It’s like lynching. It’s a pack of lies. A large portion of men lynched were White (something like 1/4-1/3). They were not lynched on such trivial things looking wrong at a White woman. Most were infamous criminals, many with child victims.
Eloi #399255 April 10, 2024 0
Look, I know. There is even the case where, I believe it was New Orleans, a female was so cruel to her slaves that the town chased her out of town. Again, this shows that this behavior was aberrant, analogous to animal cruelty.And, lest it be misrepresented, I have no white guilt and find diversity untenable. But I also think that there were many casual cruelties, just as there are many casually cruel animal owners.To wit: To hell with modern grievance studies, but slavery is a lousy lot in life.
3g4me #399267 April 10, 2024 0
Eloi: Sure, slavery is a lousy lot in life. So was being an indentured servant/slave in the early American colonies. Jews were delivered from slavery in the old testament, but owned slaves during Jesus’ time. Entire Irish villages were enslaved – by both Vikings and Mohammedans.It’s always a question of who-whom. It is also an historical fact that the majority of American slaves were better fed than the immigrant laborers in the north. All this quibbling about who rates higher on the misery and suffering index is tiresome.I have no desire to be a slave or to own slaves. But slavery is not – and never has been – the worst evil ever. And if being a slave means not owning the product of one’s own labor, or being told what to do – then most of AINO’s citizens are equally slaves. To debt, to taxes, to gluttony, to various excesses.I’m not “for” slavery, but let’s keep things in perspective. “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” was a work of total fiction, written by a woman.
Tars Tarkus #399286 April 10, 2024 0
None of us are fans of slavery. Either morally or politically. We are also men of a different era and where the true cost of slavery is now well known. We all wish slavery had never happened.But we were not unique in history in keeping slaves nor were we uniquely bad in how they were treated. Almost everything taught to our kids about slavery is a lie. Just like everything that happened on Jan 6th is a lie, Charlottesville is a lie, the civil rights movement is a lie to Southern Jim Crow is a lie. Most of the stuff about slavery is a lie as well told by people who hate you for maximum effect in driving hate and resentment against you.
joey jünger #399147 April 10, 2024 0
You can’t use any media as a bellwether of what people are thinking, but some are a smidgen closer to reality than others. Watching MSNBC will tell you as much about political reality as asking your dog or your baby their opinion. Likewise, the comments online on late night “comedy” show clips are just filled with disheartening, mouth breather platitudes. It’s just sound and fury. The proliferation of bots also makes it hard to parse the dumb from the literally automated, the figurative NPCs from the real simulacra (which I guess is a paradoxical term.)But Forbes and the Wall Street Journal seem a little bit closer to sane, and the consensus seems to be that Trump made the right decision. Again, though, does this matter? No one will believe the results if Biden wins, but whoever’s actually in charge long ago gave up on staging even a credible show for us. Boys can be girls so why can’t the desiccated mummy who sniffs children and showers with his daughter be the most popular president in history? The answer, of course, is that he can, and is the most popular president in history, because they said so.Trump costing them a few billion on abortion pisses them off, but him threatening their ability to earn hundreds of billions on the war machine means they will pull out all the stops, without shame or hesitation.
LineInTheSand #399145 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion is one of the issues that divide those who want to support traditional whites.Traditional Christians see every baby in the womb as sacred, even if retarded or disabled. I understand and respect that point of view, although I don’t share it. If the struggle for existence was less harsh, I’d agree with you.Non-believers like me want to prune the unfit branches of the tree, as sad as that may be. We want our people to be as strong as possible to face the adversities of existence.If whites ever win some land, disagreements like this make me think that Christians and non-believers can’t share a state. My hope is that we can have a pact of mutual assistance against non-white threats.
btp #399163 April 10, 2024 0
We can’t, you’re right.
Mr. Generic #399168 April 10, 2024 0
I think a more effective (and moral) way to “prune the unfit branches” would be to summarily execute felons and criminal aliens before they have a chance to reproduce. I fail to see how allowing irresponsible whores to fornicate without consequences is in any way eugenic.
Ostei Kozelskii #399181 April 10, 2024 0
Christians will far outnumber any non-Christians in the future white ethnostate. Non-believers can either accept that reality and live with it, or they can slink back into whatever remains of AINO. Can’t imagine many would do the latter.
LineInTheSand #399199 April 10, 2024 0
I didn’t downvote you, my friend. I honestly don’t know how the Christian versus Christian populations will shake out. In any case, I wish you guys the best. I would be honored to be a humble member of your community, if you’d have me. I wouldn’t make trouble.
Ostei Kozelskii #399273 April 10, 2024 0
You’d be welcomed with open arms, as would all true dissidents, God-fearing or not. I really don’t see this as a schism that has the potential to create much mischief.
Tars Tarkus #399324 April 10, 2024 0
Only if they are required to abandon their atheism and get baptized and that we have anti-blasphemy laws in place that are heavily enforced.
Tars Tarkus #399323 April 10, 2024 0
I’m kind of in the same boat as you are in. I am a non-believer, but call myself and think of myself as a “cultural Christian.”If the atheists create a White ethnostate and invite me, I’m not accepting it. I’ll go with the Christians any day of the week. Organized atheism (as opposed to people who would call themselves agnostic or simply non-believers) is the worst form of cultural cancer and they are universally unpleasant odious people. There are many factions within atheism, all with pretty stupid or evil motivations for their atheism. The feminists are atheists because they oppose the patriarchy and rules against their behavior. Gays are part of the movement because they oppose the restrictions on their behavior. The “intellectual” types oppose Christianity to make them feel superior. etc. While not universal, nearly all atheists are leftists.Not only are they themselves bad, they are often led by people of a different ethnic group who explicitly want to (have successfully) weaken the culture.The Christians aren’t perfect either. There are some branches of Christianity which I despise. There are a large number of Christians who are fake and only wish to weaken the churches. They use the pulpit to push every progressive idea while re-framing it into a propagandistic “Christianity” (think, Jesus was a refugee types).Still, even the worst of the Christians are better than atheists. I know there are a lot of atheists around here who don’t like this fact. Don’t get mad at me for pointing it out. Get mad at your fellow atheists.
Dinodoxy #399353 April 11, 2024 0
The factor unifying all of them is ego.
Montefrío #399284 April 10, 2024 0
I don’t believe I will see a “white ethnostate” in what remains of my life (pushing 78), nor do I believe there’ll ever be one, given demographics and land distribution. The only ethnostate now extant, so far as I know, is Israel. Ponder all the implications of that and an ethnostate, assuming it were possible, might no longer seem a good idea off paper.
Sundorp #399225 April 10, 2024 0
Think a little bit further. If abortion was defined as murder, and murder was punished with the death penalty, (both of which are highly supported by the Bible) there would be a lot fewer of the people who get abortions. One way or the other. Particularly since accomplices and people who make contracts for a crime can be charged with the same crime. So there is at least the possibility of some common ground, there.
Gespenst #399245 April 10, 2024 0
“Traditional Christians see every baby in the womb as sacred, even if retarded or disabled.” Yes they do. They are also against exterminating the retarded or disabled people breathing air. “Non-believers like me want to prune the unfit branches of the tree, as sad as that may be.” The sad part is, the definition of “unfit” gets ever more encompassing once the Improvers of Mankind get going on it.
L #399251 April 10, 2024 0
I doubt it… We need as many as we can save.
Citizen of a Silly Country #399142 April 10, 2024 0
It’s revealing that the GOP establishment wants to keep every fight on the federal level. Supposedly, they’re the states’ rights party, the “let’s keep everything as local as possible” party.And that’s a winning argument. It has moral standing, “Let each community decide what’s right for it.” It also plays into a weakness of the Left, which is much, much weaker in flyover country and really doesn’t have a great desire to fight it out state by state.But, as Z notes, staying at the national level national level is good for the actual people in the GOP establishment. First, they get to continue living in DC, Arlington and McLean, where they can go to parties with their Lefty friends, whose approval they seek. Second, it’s much easier to fundraise at the national level. You know the big players, they live in nice areas that are nice to visit. It’s all pretty pleasant.Dropping things down to the local level means living in Indianapolis or Kansas City. It also means that your donors are local businessmen, who are much more practical and expect results. It also means meeting them at the TGIF or some local restaurant. No more DC parties.
TomA #399140 April 10, 2024 0
I no longer receive any fund raising mail from ConInc or the Rs. I think what did it was when I wrote on the return mailer that I hated them with the intensity of a thousand suns because they were backstabbing cowardly cucks, and included a Monopoly money $100 bill. I know this had no impact on their sense of shame or dignity, but it felt good nonetheless. I’ve often said that I would rather be punched in the face by an honest “D” than stabbed in the back by a fake “R”.
3g4me #399162 April 10, 2024 0
TomA: I’ve done the same. I’ve returned every postage-paid envelope with a couple of pennies taped on for increased weight and written “I hate you” or “Never” or similar messages. I’ve called. I’ve blocked numbers. After dozens of such mailings, I finally got the Heritage Foundation to stop bothering me. And then just the other day, at our new address – yet again. I just tried calling the bast*rds but they’re closed.I haven’t voted since 2016. I’m not registered to vote. I haven’t signed up for any causes. There must be a special list for “people to harass who hate us” because I’m undoubtedly on it.
Ostei Kozelskii #399182 April 10, 2024 0
“I’ve often said that I would rather be punched in the face by an honest “D” than stabbed in the back by a fake “R”.” When you live in AINO, both happen on a daily basis.
Stranger in a Strange Land #399228 April 10, 2024 0
Albeit not daily, that would explain some of the aches and pains I feel from time to time. There is at least some consolation in knowing it’s not all old age related.
1660please #399132 April 10, 2024 0
Yes, this has been going on for a long time. I remember, throughout the 90’s and well into the 2000’s, getting pleas from the GOP and Conservative, Inc. that “We need a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning NOW!!!” Enclose a check to save America. Meanwhile, the public schools and academia were being ruined, which was clearly apparent to anyone paying attention, and our southern border was being brazenly invaded. Considering the treason of our political class for decades now, if I didn’t believe in divine justice I would be very despondent.
Eloi #399141 April 10, 2024 0
But they finally succeeded! You cannot burn a pride flag! Vote Harder!
Ostei Kozelskii #399183 April 10, 2024 0
For all intents and purposes the Fruit Flag has replaced Old Glory as AINO’s banner of choice.
Oswald Spengler #399306 April 10, 2024 0
They don’t call it the GAE (Global American Empire) for nothing.
1660please #399189 April 10, 2024 0
Ha! Good point, Eloi. It sure isn’t America anymore. I’m glad I got to see some vestiges of what it used to be.
Paintersforms #399125 April 10, 2024 0
The abortion argument is so abstract it’s meaningless. It used to be easy to find photos of aborted fetuses on the internet. If that was still the case, I doubt there’d be a debate.
Paintersforms #399131 April 10, 2024 0
Healthy fetuses, that is. Not malformed and probably unviable ones.
Marko #399133 April 10, 2024 0
It’s a heavily Christian argument. The “Science” crowd doesn’t care about abortion. They could see fetuses all day and it doesn’t matter. A clump of cells, whatever. There’s also the pesky argument of WHO is doing the aborting. I remember the Freakonomics guys 20 years ago turning heads by claiming that abortion rights caused the decline in crime starting in the late 1980s. Christian groups act like it’s little innocent Beckies from Des Moines getting abortions. But it’s not! I’ve always wondered if Christian groups knew exactly who they were lobbying for…of course Christians can be the ultimate telescopic philanthropists.
Paintersforms #399135 April 10, 2024 0
Regardless of the sociology, it only takes a few weeks for the embryo to become recognizably human. At that point, it’s certainly an innocent human life being taken. If there’s no solution to prevent that situation, wtf. Maybe try a little harder. I’m all for being tough, but that’s too tough even for me!
OrangeFrog #399138 April 10, 2024 0
Paintersforms, Regardless of the various arguments to step around it; regardless of the race or sex involved; regardless of who does it and does not; it was, is and remains a sin. And this has caused me some consternation as a Christian, as we can all thing of scenarios where, practically, the abortion in some instances would be the ‘best bet’. May the Good God have mercy on my rotten soul for saying such.
Montefrío #399291 April 10, 2024 0
I’m an atheist, though not a philosophical materialist; I have a different metaphysic. That notwithstanding, I believe in what in the Bible is the law “written on the heart”, as in Natural Law. One simply knows, down there in the marrow, that abortion is destruction and one cannot countenance it and maintain a clean conscience.
Marko #399222 April 10, 2024 0
It is most likely a sin and I get that. But is it thebiggestsin and worth the single-issue attention it gets? Is it worth all those years of politicking and donations and picketing and clinic-bombing? Jeez, you’d think that Roe legalized murdering your grandmother.I try to be a good Christian myself, but I just don’t see this – never saw it – as a worthy single-issue obsession that some Christians have about it. For example, the sexualization and vulgarization of popular media is a bigger, more corruptive issue for society at large than what some trash hoe does on a weekend.
Intelligent Dasein #399139 April 10, 2024 0
I’ve always wondered if Christian groups knew exactly who they were lobbying for They are lobbying for the babies.
Compsci #399156 April 10, 2024 0
This is undoubtedly true. But what are babies? Or rather when does a fertilized egg deserve “personhood”? One side says immediately, the other only after natural birth (9 something months)—and then maybe not.As hinted at in today’s missive, most common people are at neither extreme, but the extremes seem to rule the debate and as with all extremists, there is an impossibility to come to a compromise. One side or the other—actually both sides—needs to be defeated for the issue to be put to bed.I don’t see that happening. Despite Z-man’s thinking, the issue is (here is AZ) one that is extremely useful in political fund raising and political advantage at the polls.The current Court ruling that an 150 yo territorial law prohibiting abortion is most likely the deciding factor in turning AZ into a solid Blue State for the next election and beyond.
Paintersforms #399223 April 10, 2024 0
A fertilized egg has a different genome than either of the parents. That doesn’t make it a baby, but it does make it something different, and that difference is the beginning of independence.(How independent are any of us, anyway? I have a family name, and my parents ‘owned’ me until I reached the age of majority. The state makes a claim on me, I owe a debt to society to maintain and perpetuate it, etc.)Personhood is a moral status, so I don’t think it’s appropriate to argue it on a strictly biological basis, but I do think it’s fair to hold people accountable for their actions, and the zygote is proof in this case. Iow, I find abortion as birth control morally repugnant. I mean, you’re killing your seed. It shouldn’t get to that point.In the big picture, it’s probably the way the law has gone, which is to favor the weak and crooked over the strong and straight.And to ramble, progress sucks. It’s always stressful, and I’ve rarely been ready. Where I’ve failed, it’s because I didn’t embrace the suck. Sometimes you’ve just got to embrace the suck lol.
Compsci #399234 April 10, 2024 0
Paintersform.Personhood, is when society accepts the claim for protection of the conception of egg and sperm. The blastocyst has a potential, but to me is not a human being. Indeed, at those early stages of reproduction, it may be the case that the blastocyst fails to attach to the uterus in the *majority* of cases and is flushed out of the system *normally*. Do we morn these lost “lives”?Of course, at the other end of the reproductive cycle, late term abortion to me is pure murder and evil. Personhood is not at issue, I grant that without hesitation.Now, the strongly religious will swing one way, the non-religious or rather non-thinking the other. The first decision of SCOTUS was to draw a bright line into the process of conception to birth. Less than three months, non-person. I’m not into cutting up entities I can recognize as human, so I hesitate there. But I still look for a bright line as to whether or not I’m looking at a person or an undifferentiated clump of cells. And of course, I reject immediately the old saw, “my body, my choice”
Stephanie #399146 April 10, 2024 0
“Christian groups act like it’s little innocent Beckies from Des Moines getting abortions. But it’s not!” You’d be surprised.
Compsci #399167 April 10, 2024 0
The aspect of who gets abortion and even the grizzly spectacle of aborted fetus’s on operating tables is so 20th century, Roe vs Wade theatrics. The real story is that the battle has been lost and lost a while ago, but the pro-life folk don’t comprehend it.First, the overwhelming number of abortions—estimated at 80% are chemically inducted! That is to say, mostly via the “morning after pill”, which is a misnomer as the morning after seems now to spread into weeks. But I’m not an expert here.Second, the FDA has now approved an over the counter birth control pill requiring *no* prescription. Your daughter can buy it no questions asked, if not at the local pharmacy, then over the internet.Abortion, as in the grizzly spectacle we deplore, is now basically reserved for those who are too stupid to keep their legs together and then too stupid to take appropriate measures to correct such error. In short, our inner city minorities.Abortion presents an emotional appeal to most women and will remain an issue to women who emote more than they critically think.
The Wild Geese Howard #399150 April 10, 2024 0
Another reason, “The Science,” doesn’t see is that they’re making bank on trafficking all the various abortion output products.
Gespenst #399248 April 10, 2024 0
I’m surprised nobody thinks about the demographic aspects of the 60,000,000+ abortions since Roe v. Wade. That’s a lot of non-existing native-born people we’re replacing with leftovers from the Aztec empire.
Compsci #399258 April 10, 2024 0
Yeah, but most of those abortions have been basically inner city, as previously pointed out. Pick you poison I guess.
Ostei Kozelskii #399185 April 10, 2024 0
I imagine the vast majority of anti-abortion activists are also vehemently anti-racist, well, as regards non-whites anyway. Thus, when it comes to the relationship between abortion and crime rates, they see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.
Jack Dobson #399200 April 10, 2024 0
You have to wonder how it is “pro-life” to allow a future black murderer to be born.
Ostei Kozelskii #399246 April 10, 2024 0
Picture Becky Nobortion prancing around like Miracle Max with her fingers in her ears. “I’m not listening! I’m not listening!”
Gespenst #399471 April 11, 2024 0
How do you know a person in utero will be a murderer?
Marko #399124 April 10, 2024 0
I would argue that the only two issues self-styled conservatives attached moral arguments to – instead of more “facts and reason and muh constitution” – was abortion and gun rights. And look at the two very issues that have gained traction and even conservative wins in recent years. As we like to say round these parts, conservatives conserve nothing, but they have conserved two things at least. It’s amazing what popular morality can achieve, isn’t it?Of course progressives know this well, and therefore the two issues they can’t win a moral argument for are the ones they are most apoplectic about. Fascists haven’t been defeated unless guns are banned and women have control of their bodies! Defeat the MAGA Nazis! Donate today!
thezman #399127 April 10, 2024 0
I think this is right. You win in politics by establishing yourself on the side of the angels. Note however that conservatives had little role in both of these issues. It was Trump who delivered on the judges. It was the NRA that delivered on guns, often in the teeth of opposition from Conservative Inc. Conservative will coattail the morality, but never champion it.
Tired Citizen #399128 April 10, 2024 0
It’s not that these are their hot button issues, it’s that they aren’t getting their way with them. It doesn’t matter what the issue is, leftists only accept getting 100% of what they want before demanding more. It is why they win.
Chet Rollins #399129 April 10, 2024 0
When they do make moral claims, it’s always weak. For example, There’s an easy slam-dunk on the college loan racket in making a moral claim college students were sold a fake bill of goods by the Higher Education Industrial complex, and they should foot the bill for all this outstanding debt. Instead of this obvious means of damaging the left’s patronage network, they talk about how forgiving loans would be stealing. It’s true, mind you, but a far weaker moral claim than refusing to help the guy with 200k in undissolvible student loans.
Jack Dobson #399172 April 10, 2024 0
Elected Republicans will do or say the thing that causes the least bit of disruption in their personal lives. It is why they frame issues this way. They are cowards first and foremost, and grifters as a distant second. And in cases such as Mike Johnson, apparently easily blackmailed.
Compsci #399187 April 10, 2024 0
None of the forgiveness plans I’ve seen have ever been designed to help the recipient in a high earning field with $200k in debt. The forgiveness plans usually cap the amount, leaving plenty to be paid back by a med school graduate or budding lawyer or architect.The issue of unfair forgiveness misses the point, IMO. As I’ve stated repeatedly, we have waay too many people in tertiary education (leave vocational aside for now). At absolute best, we only have perhaps 15-20% of the population that can make good use of a college education. (Again, leave remedial HS education out of the discussion.)In order to get 40+% into some sort of tertiary education, we have done three things (at least): 1) excessively funded the students through loans and grants and such, 2) lowered the entry standards for general admission, 3) in order to graduate these newly admitted mediocrities, created all sorts of faux disciplines to major in.—and even in those not so created, lowered standards for the major.Now given the above, does one think an 18 yo HS grad is of sound enough judgement to be an appropriate consumer of the product offered? And if not, should they be held responsible for the snake oil product they are being sold by the government and academic charlatans? In my judgement, no.However even this is not the whole picture. What is never said is that there are plans to modify the payback requirements—some I hear are in place—which caps the amount required to be paid yearly to the amount of income of the (former) student, caps the amount of accruing interest, and even forgives the entire loan after several years of timely payment and employment. I don’t claim to have a good knowledge here, but as you can imagine, even modifying the loan terms beats a total forgiveness in terms of a taxpayer haircut.
Ostei Kozelskii #399193 April 10, 2024 0
Another moral, albeit considerably less prominent issue, is vegetarianism. Leftists tend far more toward vegetarianism–on environmentalist and animal rights grounds–than do those on the right. But Leftists understand they don’t yet have nearly enough control of this issue to take away our T-bones, chicken strips and bacon, so the issue doesn’t get as much play as gun control and abortion. But make no mistake, the Left would love to make us subsist on pea tendrils and tofu, and if they ever get traction on the issue it will become very prominent, indeed. Of course, by the time that happens, AINO may no longer exist.
Compsci #399254 April 10, 2024 0
Absolutely spot on, Ostei, the Left will never stop.If I may add a bit of lived through knowledge of history. I remember sitting about the TV with family when the Surgeon General first declared smoking to be a “potential” health hazard. In those days about 2/3’s of the country had picked up the nasty habit. Smoking was allowed everywhere and never considered twice.Well, the Fed’s couldn’t allow the benighted population to continue their unhealthy ways, so with the help of the “do gooders” (primitive Leftists) got on to the job of reducing smoking.At first we were treated to gory pictures on cigarette packages and warnings by the SG. Amusing at first. Then we saw prohibition of TV “pro-smoking” ad’s, but an increase of ad’s by dying celebs and such doing their best to get right with Jesus and decry their prior life smoking choices. Smoking started to decline.This initial decline was not seen to be enough and when it reached about 50%, and leveling, then the “whip’s” came out. Smoking bans began to take place. Communities began leveling ordinances against restaurant smoking and the like. First in bars, then later everywhere that did not sufficiently segregate non-smokers—which turned out to be impossible given State and local regulations.Smoking was demonized and could now only be done outdoors and in designated areas—like 20 feet from any doorway or air intake. Universities and other institutions eventually disallowed it anywhere on their grounds. Now the outdoors was prohibited. Smoking in your car with your children present was an offense, and there were inroads into your very home wrt smoking in many locals.Smoking was now at 30% or so. There was serious talk of nationwide prohibition—until, voila, the tobacco companies yielded to pending threat of lawsuit bankruptcy and cut in the Fed’s and local gov’s and do-golfer organizations for a cut of the action through tax increases. Now a pack of cigarettes once a dollar or so is now $5-7, with the bulk of the money going to government taxation.No one now seems to care if a steady state of 25% or so of the population continues to pick up the nasty habit, as long as that sweet tax revenue continues. Who’d have thunk?
Ostei Kozelskii #399275 April 10, 2024 0
Good thing I quit smoking when I did (1998), because if I hadn’t, I might be living in a cardboard box under an overpass in El Segundo, subsisting on cantaloupe rinds, fish-heads and rice! The cost of cigs, like everything else about AINO, is quite insane.
Zfan #399290 April 10, 2024 0
There are worse places than El Segundo, even considering the sewage treatment plant and refinery. Beats an overpass in Hawthorne or my old hometown of Inglewood!
Kralizec #399122 April 10, 2024 0
Republicans hate winning.
Outdoorspro #399123 April 10, 2024 0
“Republicans hate winning.” Even more importantly, the don’t hate to lose. They really like to lose, as that gives them something to fund raise off. Let’s face it, that’s what is really important.
Jack Dobson #399166 April 10, 2024 0
Republicans are cucks. It’s not that they don’t hate to lose. Republicans LOVE to lose.
Ostei Kozelskii #399201 April 10, 2024 0
I imagine the average Republican politician has an anus the size of Lake Huron…
Stranger in a Strange Land #399230 April 10, 2024 0
Which leaves them something left to strive for: Lake Superior.
Barney Rubble #399298 April 10, 2024 0
The GOP has no interest in “winning” on behalf of normal Americans because we’re not their real constituency. Voters are the rubes in the audience of their carnival freak show–objects of contempt to be exploited and fleeced. When it comes to their real constituents–corporate America, Wall Street, the MIC, Israel–Republicans fight like rabid dogs.
XLOVELI #399121 April 10, 2024 0
The tricky thing about abortion is that while it is a moral issue for one side, it is a practical issue for the other side. Large numbers of women are too lazy to take precautions — or something “just happens” — and abortion offers a convenient way out of the mess. For women, keeping their options *wide open* is the driving force. The few women who oppose abortion are acting out of loyalty to another culture, like hispanic chicks or trad-Christian gals. Once they get absorbed by the Feminist Borg, and properly assimilated, they too will parrot the standard vaginal line.Bill Maher, on his podcast Club Random, said he sort of sees abortion as murder … he just doesn’t care. To the classic exquisite liberal mind, a fetus is just a bunch of cells to be harvested for science, and most definitely NOT a baby. Why would you protect an inanimate blob when the women don’t want you to?Pro-life will never win because of simple math. 90 percent of gals want freely accessible abortion AND half of all men OR MORE are beta simps who meekly do whatever Karen tells them to do.In a glorious alpha world, alpha men would knock up chicks — like Simon Cowell impregnating his mate’s wife — and not have to pay a dime to support the child. This will also never happen as long as the male vagina lickers have political power to back their female true masters. If an end to democracy means an end to beta simp power, I’m all for it. Go Alphas!
Vizzini #399136 April 10, 2024 0
“90 percent of gals want freely accessible abortion” That’s simply not true. Opposition to abortion is higher among women than men.
OrangeFrog #399137 April 10, 2024 0
In a glorious alpha world, alpha men would knock up chicks — like Simon Cowell impregnating his mate’s wife — and not have to pay a dime to support the child.Doesn’t this already happen amongst a large proportion of the non-white peoples currently living in all Western nations? There’s your alpha world!Don’t know if you were joking with the statement above, or if I misunderstood; but such a world without both men and women willing to take responsibility for their actions would be rather dire. The alpha men and the women to whom you refer in the above passage, seem to me to represent mankind in one of it’s most sinful, hubristic states I could imagine.
The Wild Geese Howard #399164 April 10, 2024 0
OF- I think you are correct about that particular community fitting into a certain idea of alpha maledom. Then, look at how that community is propped up and marketed to women outside that community. It’s sickening.
OrangeFrog #399186 April 10, 2024 0
Geese, I very sorry – but I don’t really understand your remark? What do you mean, exactly? Is the “community” to which you refer “non-whites” as I mentioned above?
The Wild Geese Howard #399302 April 10, 2024 0
OF- More specifically, I was trying to be coy about referring to obsolete farm equipment.
ProZNoV #399120 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion is much like marijuana, mushroom, “micro-dosing” things like cocaine and Adderall.Probably ok for the “elites”; they can generally handle it and will indulge in it in small amounts, if at all.Unleashed on the great unwashed, all of them are a civilization destroying disaster.If states were rational actors, they might come up with some tailored bans for abortion (1st trimester, for example) and see how that goes.On the other hand, it’s pretty clear that pot legalization has been a huge mistake, but states can’t/won’t unwind it. So the same is going to happen with abortion…all or nothing, until the dam breaks and it’s everywhere, damn the consequences.One thing is for sure: I’ve never met a “pro-life” woman who thinks any woman should face so much as a $5 fine for actually getting an abortion; it’s always the evil abortionists fault.(I can’t believe this is going to be the huge topic on the debate state for the next 10 + years. Sigh)
Eloi #399143 April 10, 2024 0
While I agree with your sentiment, our elites drink babies’ blood and sacrifice them to Baphomet. Not sure they can moderate well.
3g4me #399144 April 10, 2024 0
ProZNoV: “One thing is for sure: I’ve never met a “pro-life” woman who thinks any woman should face so much as a $5 fine for actually getting an abortion; it’s always the evil abortionists fault.” The “pro-life” women are the ones who go on mission trips to Africa and come home with adopted black babies. And then find a cuckservatard to marry them.
Jack Dobson #399160 April 10, 2024 0
Yes. When you think about it, bringing back an African trophy baby and being against abortion, which has culled millions of black future criminals, are one and the same. I recently posted the demographic reality of abortion. Needless to say, it has been a win-win. The women you describe eventually will celebrate castrating little boys as an affirmation or whatever.
Jack Dobson #399161 April 10, 2024 0
This corresponds with all stats I’ve seen: https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/2017/abortion-rates-race-and-ethnicity The insane white women who celebrate abortion are right for all the wrong reasons. Eugenics deserve our support.
3g4me #399177 April 10, 2024 0
Jack: I hate, hate, HATE posts and threads about abortion because it brings out everyone’s moralist, black/white side. I am a baptized and believing Christian. I adore babies. I have never had an abortion. I find the advocates of partial and post-birth abortion (like Peter Singer) to be evil ghouls.BUT. I equally abhor reading people who mourn that not enough Down Syndrome children are being born any more. Or those who insist babies who will spend their lives in beds and wheelchairs, deaf, blind, and dumb, are ALWAYS a blessing and that every family ought to be grateful for one.Jesus HEALED. He didn’t say “I will bless you with a physically and mentally ill child to bankrupt your family, burden your other children with for life, and make you a community activist so everyone can all pay for “equal” everything for your “special” child.For those so burdened, who love and care for their disabled children – God bless you. But I will never support those who insist that this is a burden that is God-ordained, or that everyone must bear. I can know that an infant born of rape is inherently innocent, but I cannot support those who piously insist some young White woman raped by a black must bear that child.It is a complex physical, moral, and ethical issue and I’m fed up with single-issue simple answer people. Perhaps I’m not being morally consistent – but then neither are those who insist no abortions ever but the support the death penalty for abortionists. Personally, I think would sooner kill those who sexually mutilate living children.I could go on endlessly, as this thread undoubtedly will. It ought to be a local, community-level issue and is, at heart, a deeply personal one.
Jack Dobson #399184 April 10, 2024 0
3g:“It is a complex physical, moral, and ethical issue ” Looking at the racial stats, I find it a very simple issue.
Eloi #399257 April 10, 2024 0
@3g: The Bible, from my perspective, clearly indicates where suffering comes from. And it is not the Lord. God didn’t torment Job, and Jesus didn’t dispute Satan’s ability to offer the kingdoms of the world. So, agreed, that this is not God giving cruel tasks as a blessing.
btp #399170 April 10, 2024 0
Who cares what women think about this issue? I mean, of course they want someone else to pay the price for their choices; they are women.
Ostei Kozelskii #399205 April 10, 2024 0
Why has legalizing weed been a huge mistake? Honest question.
rasqball #399528 April 11, 2024 0
Do you know many people who’ve been consistent tokers for 20, 30, 40 yrs? Are you aware that most commercially avalable Cannabis (Indica, Sativa, hybrids) strains have been GMOd to the point that they are psychoactively…an entirely different monster (think “Quaalude and Mescaline cocktail”)? Normalizing pot culture was one of THE WORST….
Filthie #399119 April 10, 2024 0
For me it is a non-issue… I think liberals, blacks and jews SHOULD abort their children, to be honest…😂
Tired Citizen #399130 April 10, 2024 0
That’s not a joke filthie. The scum getting abortions are exactly the people we want getting them. White, leftist women produce more white leftists. Fuck them.
Ostei Kozelskii #399208 April 10, 2024 0
You first… (-;
Horace #399148 April 10, 2024 0
I say this openly, although I say “existential enemies who want us dead and gone” instead of “liberals, blacks, and jews” and precede it with “I’m not conservative. I’m right-wing, so …” I suspect that the overturning of RvW was just a bone thrown to the normiecons to keep them believing in the corporate grift that is America. That is to say, it was not a ‘victory’ but a tactical political operation of the enemy which perhaps hasn’t worked out like they hoped.
TempoNick #399198 April 10, 2024 0
Add me to the chorus of people who simply don’t care that less of them will be around. It’s not my job to save them from themselves.
Brandon Laskow #399266 April 10, 2024 0
The Democrats shot themselves in the foot by promoting abortion so much, especially among the blacks. If those millions of blacks weren’t killed before birth they’d have overwhelmingly grown up to be Democrat voters. In which case states such as PA and MI would be firmly blue, not swing.
Punk in Drublic #399118 April 10, 2024 0
“This means it is a local issue.” Anyone who’s done politics knows your local issues are just as controlled and fabricated by the same people. DeSantis was another example which I got lots of gnashing of teeth from conservatives and the dissident right when I pointed it out early on…until it became so damn obvious it was blinding. This is a shared delusion (local issues) by the conservatives and the dissident right which says a lot.
TempoNick #399197 April 10, 2024 0
The one thing that really really really turned me off about the DeSantis was when he pandered to the Jews by signing that bill the Florida legislature passed in Israel. Evangelicals and Jews may love that, but whatever votes he gains from them are more than canceled out by the growing chorus of people like me for whom this is a huge turnoff.
Hemid #399238 April 10, 2024 0
Every state with a “based” governor did the same—and no others did. Never has a message been more clearly sent. And I’ve seen *not one* conservative receive it.
Anti-Gnostic #399114 April 10, 2024 0
Exactly. Suck all the oxygen out of the room with ABORTION while stealing the country out from under the rubes’ noses. As if I should care about bolsheviks removing themselves from the gene pool. The oleaginous Speaker Ryan did the same thing in Trump’s first term with the TAXES nobody cared about or campaigned on.
TempoNick #399192 April 10, 2024 0
I am totally turned off by the culture wars these days. Of course, I lead an Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle and also wish that everybody else did, but that’s the least of our problems today. Culture wars give the Whigs an excuse for being flaccid do nothings. They’re not going to manipulate me with this sort of thing anymore.
MikeCLT #399113 April 10, 2024 0
Abortion is not solely a local/state issue. The Dems promise to codify Roe on steroids at the federal level if they get the chance, making it no longer a local/state issue. That is what they are running on.If the GOP runs on a federal ban, they will lose and Roe+ will be federal law overruling state restrictions. Voters in red states, when given the choice of no restrcitions or a ban, chose no restrictions. That was when they had the chance to vote solely on the abortion issue. Ohio voted pro abortion but still elected GOP politicians. Not sure how they would vote when not given a clear choice on abortion.That may be good for the Con Inc. grifters but it will be terrible for the country.
Eloi #399116 April 10, 2024 0
From the moment the Court ruling was handed down, I have made the claim that the Fed will eventually legalize full-term abortions across the entire country, overruling any state or local objection. Much like the ban on gay marriage in California, an initiative against an issue will be used to universally legalize said issue.We will see. But I think this will be one of Biden’s second term’s accomplishments.
thezman #399126 April 10, 2024 0
The Dems will have the same problem as the GOP. All it takes is a few Senators to filibuster it in the Senate. Then there is the issue of the courts, which will most likely overturn this scheme and send it back down to the states. In other words, it is just part of the same grift as the federal abortion ban.
Eloi #399151 April 10, 2024 0
I agree with your analysis when considering the country as pertains to the political landscape today. When you consider, however, how it may be reshaped in the next election, and then some court-packing or a retirement or two, suddenly those checks go away.I admit freely that I do not know the logistical shenanigans that will accomplish the institution of full-term abortions, but I feel this is the way the culture is shifting and the thing our elites want. Time will tell!
Tired Citizen #399134 April 10, 2024 0
Give it a few years, conservatives will support late term abortion too. They’re always just a few years late.
Mr. Generic #399159 April 10, 2024 0
> Give it a few years, conservatives will support late term abortion too. Of course! We have to have outreach to the wahmin. You might think sacrificing babies to Moloch is wrong, but sacrificing babies to Moloch is the ONLY way we can elect TRUE CONSERVATIVES!
Ostei Kozelskii #399212 April 10, 2024 0
Conservativism is merely the trailing shadow of radicalism as it races toward perdition. Or words to that effect…
Chet Rollins #399112 April 10, 2024 0
Trump clearly thinks Abortion is a losing issue on the federal level, and has gone so far as to counter-signal some state measures against IVF. Kari Lake, trying to prove herself Trump’s top sycophant, railed against a court ruling allowing pro-life legislation to stay. There is clearly some frustration from Trump that he gave his supporters exactly what they wanted, and they aren’t satisfied. Well, welcome to politics. It would be better if he just kept his mouth shut on the issue, but we all know that’s not in his nature.The only plausible argument being made is we need federal legislation first, because otherwise the democrats will do it. This doesn’t really hold much weight, as either the SC will strike it down, or states will just ignore it.Overall, even the most ardent pro-life guys are slowly moving away from the issue at a federal level and within another five years the current situation will be the new normal. While ideally we would have a better outcome, politics is the art of the practical, and the right has to make a lot more progress to maneuver legislative wins, and is decades from establishing non-democratic ways to impose their will.
Owlman #399111 April 10, 2024 0
Mission statement was always Eugenics. Effect, eugenics.
Anti-Gnostic #399115 April 10, 2024 0
Nature has practiced eugenics for millions of years. Big-brained humans with their ethical constructs try and stymie it. In the long run , eugenics win. Always.
Tarl Cabot #399173 April 10, 2024 0
That is my only real hope for the future.


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