Belief And Democracy

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The willingness to accept something as true, without evidence to support it, is the essence of belief. Someone tells you something and you can either accept what is said as true or reject it, without having much to go on because people rarely layout factual cases for the things they say. Your buddy at the office tells you he heard layoffs are coming, but his only proof is where he heard it. You have to decide whether to accept what he says or reject it, based on other factors.

Belief is the thing at the center of religion, culture, and ideology. You grow up learning about Wotan and his wandering. You accept it as true, even though there is never any evidence to support the existence of Wotan. You became a communist because you learned about historical materialism, and it explained everything. You continue to celebrate Christmas, despite being a pagan communist, because you were told it is what your people do regardless of their religion.

Biologically, belief is assumed to be one of modern man’s oldest traits. Belief, which is often confused with religion, probably co-evolved with language. Taken together it allows for humans to pass along complex and abstract ideas from one place to another and one generation to another. You can read the Epic of Gilgamesh today, in your native language, and learn something about the people who produced it. The abstract concepts traveled over time and place to you.

To get a better sense of the power of belief, think about a race of humans that is devoid of belief so all claims must be backed by proof. Children grow up demanding proof of everything said by their parents. School children demand proof of every assertion made by their teachers. The boss of the corporation is required to prove that diversity is the company’s greatest strength. Humans would never have made it out of the trees without a willingness to believe what they are told.

Like most human traits, belief seems to operate on a spectrum. Everyone knows a gullible person who trusts everyone. Then you have the devout person who accepts everything about her particular religion. On the other hand, we have the skeptic who is willing to question claims that seem a bit over the top. This person is different from the cynic, who assumes everything is a lie. The bulk of people lie between the serious skeptic and the generally trusting.

Belief is probably why democracy ends in disaster. The point of democracy is to have policies that reflect the general will of the people. In theory this means figuring out what most people will accept. You cannot make everyone happy, even in a small group ordering in lunch, but you can make most people happy and those outliers happy enough so they do not revolt. In theory, democracy is ordering pizza for lunch because no one hates it and most people like it.

In reality, democracy quickly turns into a game of convincing the majority to go along with whatever benefits the few. If you and your conspirators can get fifty percent plus one to agree to your scheme, it will be very good for you. Of course, others have their schemes so that democracy quickly moves from understanding the will of the people to persuading the majority. In reality, democracy is ordering Chinese after having convinced the majority that it is the right choice.

That phrase “right choice” is critical. It is never about facts and reason, but about the morally correct choice. Democracy rests on the assertion that the morally correct choice is that which satisfies the needs and demands of most people. Therefore, the way to persuade someone is to convince them that the majority already believes whatever it is you are pitching. In practice, democracy is telling each person that everyone really wants Chinese, except those troublemakers in the pizza party.

This is where belief comes into the room. In such conditions, the true believer will always have an advantage over the skeptic and especially the cynic because the fanatic shares the language and thought processes of the typical believer. Since most people are generally willing to believe what is told to them, as long as the source has some trust capital, the fanatic shares with the typical person that willingness to believe, even if it is in the extreme. The fanatic speaks the common language.

The skeptic, on the other hand, lacks the ability to naturally communicate with the typical person because he questions what is asserted. The skeptic is not trafficking in alternative beliefs but in the lack of belief. This naturally means the audience willing to hear his questions is smaller than that of the fanatic. The cynic is trafficking in the denial of belief, so his market is the smallest. It is why the word cynic has a negative connotation in our democratic societies.

In the game of persuasion, the true believer starts with an enormous advantage because the majority is tuned to believe. There are enough skeptics to force the fanatics to make their case, but they get to make their case in moral terms, rather than factual ones, which is why they so often carry the day. Humans would rather do the morally right thing than the empirically right thing. This reality of the human condition is why democracy falls prey to fanatics and charlatans.

There is another piece to this. Humans in the main are believing machines so they will believe in something. This provides another advantage for the fanatic. In the absence of a better belief, the typical person will still listen to the fanatic, despite his many factual errors, until a better set of beliefs come along. Since the skeptic is never selling belief, but merely questioning it, he never reaps the rewards of his successful questioning of the fanatic. A new fanatic always steps into that breech.

It is why fanatics and charlatans have come to dominate Western countries. Since the Cold War, the West has embraced the idea of democracy, which has unleashed the fanatics and charlatans, who in turn promote democracy as the only moral choice, because it is the manure that fertilizes them. The death spiral of the West is the death spiral of every democracy. Without hard limits, the people will follow fanatics promising salvation until there is nothing left to save.


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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

140 Comments

KingKong #381344 December 13, 2023 2:36 am 0
“Humans would never have made it out of the trees without a willingness to believe what they are told.”And how much better the world would be had humans never left paradise.Belief and trust are forms of corruptions.It’s time we go back to a trustless, a beliefless world. Sure, many of you will die in the process, but ultimately what will be left are the meek, the perfect beings.“Taken together it allows for humans to pass along complex and abstract ideas from one place to another and one generation to another.”Complex and abstract ideas is a synonym for complete bullshit. Simple societies where every person is forced to verify things themselves also don’t have absolutely corrupted politicians and thugs in charge. That’s the reality of the bargain you strike when you perpetuate “complex and abstract ideas” across generations.“Since the skeptic is never selling belief, but merely questioning it, he never reaps the rewards of his successful questioning of the fanatic.”Incorrect (somewhat)! The skeptic does reap the rewards, but only after everything is destroyed, including time itself. The pure skeptics are the meek, and they shall inherit the Earth.So while you’re technically right (“never” reaps the reward, as in “not until time itself ends”), the skeptics do come out on top.The fanatics, the believers, the cynics, the manipulators. All die.
imnobody00 #381340 December 12, 2023 9:01 pm 0
Every skeptic is a believer. And every believer is a skeptic. Belief in X is skepticism in everything other than X. Skepticism in X has to be based in a reason Y, which is a belief. In our culture based on the philosophy derived from Descartes, skepticism has good press. So everybody postures as a skeptic, because this looks like culturally sophisticated. In reality, the opposition between skepticism and belief is a false dichotomy. The only possible opposition is between true beliefs and false beliefs.
JC3D #381338 December 12, 2023 6:15 pm 0
I guess democracy’s motto can be:Believe in something.Even if it means sacrificing everything.
Robbo #381345 December 13, 2023 7:01 am 0
I’d say it’s more “Believe in the Current Thing – or else!”
Coofonomics #381311 December 12, 2023 2:46 pm 0
One of your best posts this year, among good competition. Am I alone in being skeptical of “skeptic” as a useful political label any more. When I was coming up, roughly ’90s Kindler-Gentler-Year-of-the-Woman-Big-Government-Is-Over Era, that was one common trope among missionary liberals to compliment their own clique, usually linking to a fossilized university or upper-middle-brow newspaper somewhere (except for Bill Maher, bragging about being a cynic is comparatively unheard of). I am sure 90% of The New Yorker subscribers in 2013 would self-identify as skeptics. So I wasn’t that surprised when the secular smarty skeptics morphed into Follow The Science Or Die three years backs. This includes quite a few born-again retards from the online Right of course.
Ostei Kozelskii #381316 December 12, 2023 3:05 pm 0
It’s hard to be a skeptic when you’re the establishment.
Jeffrey Zoar #381335 December 12, 2023 5:01 pm 0
I am sure that the overwhelming majority of believers would self identify as skeptics. Sort of like the huge mass of iconoclastic rebels with tattoos
Robbo #381346 December 13, 2023 7:03 am 0
Exactly. Rebellion has been suborned, marketed and packaged like everything else. Look at how many “rebel” rock stars went along with the Covid madness. It’s easy for Bruce Springsteen or Kneel Young to be rebels when the only threat is the occasional drugs bust or a nasty headline. When the REAL crunch came, they folded like a cheap suit. They told us to Rage Against the Machine, and we learnt that they WERE the machine.
Frank #381350 December 13, 2023 9:29 am 0
Yeah, this is a great post. Instant Z Man classic.
Ploppy #381309 December 12, 2023 2:40 pm 0
The best example of the drawback of the cynic I can think of are the men’s rights/mgtow people online. Everything they say is factually correct that romance is a pretty drape we place over a rather brutal process of sexual selection and mate competition in nature. Also, they’re all angry fifty year old men living alone with no kids. I think I’d rather tell myself that women do have souls and be happy. At least until the divorce.
Jeffrey Zoar #381321 December 12, 2023 3:23 pm 0
I think there’s a goal of evangelizing to younger men so they don’t fall prey to the same fairy tales and make the same mistakes that the older ones did
The Wild Geese Howard #381332 December 12, 2023 4:46 pm 0
The redpill bunch are merely a symptom of the lopsided family and divorce court systems that have been destroying men for years.
Spingerah #381343 December 13, 2023 12:42 am 0
. No doubt more difficult today but there are a few who get and stay married, raise functional realist children etc..It is possible. Just takes compromise, hard work and luck in finding someone whos disfunction compliments your own.
Moran ya Simba #381293 December 12, 2023 1:51 pm 0
One major problem with democracy is that there will always be far more dumb people than smart people because of entropy. There are far more bad ways to wire a brain than good ways. This is exacerbated by affluence because idiots who would have died in hard times survive. Survive and vote.Another problem is that voters often do not personally feel the consequences of their choices. Therefore you have the same problem as with online tough guys who blarher on about how tough they are etc.Maybe direct democracy should be coupled with having to pay to vote on a particular issue. But that would lead to it’s own grifts and shenanigans.I have a belief that there is no substitute for a healthy culture. And that means you can only have democracy inside one tribe. Now we are trying to do multi tribal democracy. And are getting a dog’s breakfast in return. So how do you restore the culture of our tribe on a moral foundation that works in practice? Historically you lost wars and went through hard times. That weeded out the charlatans and fanatics. Is there another way?
Steve #381298 December 12, 2023 2:07 pm 0
Fully on board, particularly with your last paragraph, which is also why I question @ZMan’s hypothesis. From a cultural perspective, what is morally right IS what is empirically right. Our tribe has the mores and traditions it has because it was able to outcompete tribes with other mores and traditions. That is, all evidence points to the idea that our traditions are superior in terms of producing a healthy civilization.Which loops back to the idea that believers damn a democracy. Believers are not the problem. It’s the skeptics who bring new ideas, challenging the traditions and mores of the society, who destabilize things.How many successful multicultural civilizations can you name? And how many civilizations can you think of that collapsed shortly after questioning their traditional culture and ultimately replacing it with something exciting and new?
Moran ya Simba #381301 December 12, 2023 2:15 pm 0
I think skeptics and believes both okay a role in a functioning tribe. The believer brings the fuel to do things, the skeptic tries to stop bad ideas from being carried out. You need a balance of both. We on the DR also need that. We need visionaries who can rally enthusiasm, including self sacrificial belief because overthrowing the current regime will end very badly for some of us. But also skeptics to stop the dumbest ideas before they doom us
Steve #381317 December 12, 2023 3:09 pm 0
I think we are looking at “skeptics” from a different point of view. I see skeptics as those who question the way we’ve always done things. I think when you are speaking of skeptic, its the reaction to the skeptics, the ones who question the original skeptics who put us on this road to disaster. That’s what I get from the mention of DR, anyway. DR is,. by tautology, dissenting from the current multi-culti orthodoxy, and instead championing what would have been considered traditionalism a century ago.For example, the skeptics are the ones who gave us the Federal Reserve, income tax, Direct election of senators, etc. “The way we’ve always done things is not good enough for modern times. We need to replace our traditions with [crap].” In hindsight, we can easily see the skeptics were either not as bright as they thought, or were malicious beyond belief. Or both.
Moran ya Simba #381337 December 12, 2023 5:14 pm 0
Yes we’re using the same word, skeptic, for almost polar opposites it seems. The skeptic against Chesterton vs the skeptic against removing his fence so to speak
WillS #381300 December 12, 2023 2:11 pm 0
That is the milliin dollar question. How do we restore the founding ideals containedd in WASP culture in our new demograpic. I suspect the only answer is force to maintain some semblance of civilizzation. Tribal divide appears to always end in bloodshed.
Moran ya Simba #381302 December 12, 2023 2:17 pm 0
But we must also separate ourselves from the empire. It is a hard problem and probably without perfect solutions
Longstreet #381342 December 12, 2023 11:21 pm 0
Perhaps your finest column ever, Z. The percentage of dumb people is expanding. Smart people have very few kids in the modern world. Stupid people have a mountain of kids do the math. Just because you’re smart doesn’t mean you are wise. The percentage of smart people who are wise is very small. Sadly, you can be smart and wise, but not moral. Sigh. No wonder democracy is failing.
Hi -Ya #381492 December 13, 2023 5:36 pm 0
Sing folk songs!
Filthie #381288 December 12, 2023 1:10 pm 0
But… We can’t even ape the workings of a democracy anymore Z. I was just watching a hearing about allowing trannies and queers to compete in local women’s sport. That blonde chick off the swimming team was there and it was all women in the room. The young lady made her statement – call her a skeptic if you want…but as soon as she’s done, this ignorant young black bitch on the commission wants her words stricken from the proceedings because Swimmer Girl is obviously transphobic. The proceedings are shut down while the poohbahs try to decide if the action is warranted or even allowed under the committee rules. Eventually they sort it out and call on an old woman to speak. This one was an “expert” and she introduced herself – only to be shut down by Little Miss She-Boon again – the expert was transphobic and again, the committee had to shut down again to reevaluate itself and justify itself to a young, sub 85 IQ negress who was obviously too stupid to understand democracy, committee rules or even the issues being discussed. That committee was never going to produce anything other than hot air and frustration. The presence of one niggered idiot derailed any attempt at even a show of democratic principles and proceedings, or a group of people trying to get along.I don’t think our implosion will be the kabuki theatre of a slowly failing democratic system with well meaning skeptics and cynics. the crazies and stupids came off the blocks and did five laps before the cynics, skeptics, and heretics even heard the starting gun. To even have a dog and pony show democracy…we will need to kill the idiots first! People and the stinking masses will need to see it done too. They must be stabbed multiple times until they collapse to bleed out on the forum floor a La Julius Caesar.Once that’s done, THEN we can talk about heretics, cynics, democracy and what we’re having for lunch. I dunno about you all… but I’m having a steak sammich…😉👍
mikeski #381292 December 12, 2023 1:49 pm 0
That blonde chick off the swimming team was there and it was all women in the room. The young lady made her statement – call her a skeptic if you want…but as soon as she’s done, this ignorant young black bitch on the commission wants her words stricken from the proceedings because Swimmer Girl is obviously transphobic. The proceedings are shut down while the poohbahs try to decide if the action is warranted or even allowed under the committee rules.First of all, that’s REPRESENTATIVE IYB Bitch to you, plebe.I watched the video. When the Pride Of Pennsylvania tried to have “transphobic” entered into the record next to Ms. Gaines’ name, Gaines piped up and asked that Rep. Lee be similarly tarred with “misogynist”.Much harumphing ensued, followed by Lee withdrawing her request.
Bartleby the Scrivner #381336 December 12, 2023 5:03 pm 0
Dudes competing with girls could be halted in a week, if every real female simply refused to participate in any events with the mentally Ill men. But Bartleby, they spent their whole lives preparing for this time in their lives! Yeah, and their efforts are meaningless when trannies are involved. So withdrawing their participation at least will at the very least make said events meaningless. Just on their terms. The chicks just need to say “no”.
JerseyJeffersonian #381339 December 12, 2023 8:59 pm 0
That’s hard for them to do, what with them always trying to find a way to get everybody to, even grudgingly, sing Kumbayah. But if this group of highly competitive women can’t summon up a resounding NO, well, what is to be done. Can’t White Knight for them.
Moran ya Simba #381294 December 12, 2023 1:56 pm 0
Multitribal democracy is totally impossible. It always degenerates unto war by voting. And then the side with the fewest votes decides to exchange the ballet box for the cartridge box. And there you go
The Wild Geese Howard #381333 December 12, 2023 4:48 pm 0
Filthie- The first section of your post is an apt description of how communism works.
Ostei Kozelskii #381271 December 12, 2023 12:36 pm 0
In reality, democracy is ordering General Tso’s Shit after having convinced the majority that it is the right choice.FIFYThe real question in all this is why true American patriots, along about 1965, pulled a volte face and suddenly became fanatics for anti-America (AINO). Moreover, what produced the anti-American elite fanatics who convinced the American patriots that their country was terrible and had to be replaced by its opposite? Did American patriotism somehow attenuate, creating a void into which was poured the curare of anti-Americanism and anti-white racism?This transition from good to evil was shockingly quick, highly improbable, and it demands an explanation. And I’m not sure post-war affluence is quite sufficient.
Intelligent Dasein #381281 December 12, 2023 12:51 pm 0
The high-low alliance was an important factor in the rapid change you speak about. When an elite class wants to cement its social control over a near-peer faction (e.g. the American middle class), it makes common cause with both foreigners and with lower class natives, whom it promises to enrich from the spoils taken from the middle. This natural dynamic can only be offset by strong middle class solidarity, which the peculiarities of American culture make rather difficult.
Ostei Kozelskii #381319 December 12, 2023 3:14 pm 0
That’s surely part of the equation. However, we’re still left with the puzzle of how true believers could, in extremely short order, be convinced to disavow their old beliefs and adopt totally antithetical new ones. I can understand slow modifiction of one’s ideas over a period of decades, but radical transmogrification of ideas in an extremely short span strikes me as bizarre and unnatural. Vikings correctly pointed to the importance of the idiot box, but still…
Alzaebo #381285 December 12, 2023 12:58 pm 0
Two guys in Templar uniforms; one is saying, “Uhh, are we Amalek now?”
WhereAreTheVikings #381289 December 12, 2023 1:12 pm 0
Perhaps, Ostei, at least in part, the incessant visuals of Holocaustianism post-World War II were manipulated into an indictment of all whites to the point that many whites themselves bought into it, and did not want to be identified with 6’2” blond, blue-eyed Kurt patrolling a barbed wire fence in any form or fashion. The government, via Ike, freed the emaciated Jews, so what could go wrong with its all-out war on “inequality”, the obvious consequence of a free society? Factor in the never-before seen, ever-present, and ever-shaming brainwashing power of TV, plus the whites’ retreat into materialism and the good life, with predatory Marxist vultures waiting for the last signs of life – and here we are.,
Moran ya Simba #381299 December 12, 2023 2:08 pm 0
I don’t think holocaust became a big theme until the late 70s or 80s. Notice how they made a ton of WWII movies in the 50&60s. And not a word about Jews. Farmer Jackson in Iowa in 1960 wouldn’t have known what the Holocaust was
KGB #381314 December 12, 2023 2:58 pm 0
That’s interesting because The Tribe controlled Hollywood just as much then as they do today. And yet they felt it was better on balance to keep schtum about the camps. Perhaps they felt it best to bury the story lest some new Mustache Man come along and think, “say, I can do that too, but better!” Was there any tangible reason for them to change their mind and begin to use it as a sign of Jewish piety?
Ostei Kozelskii #381320 December 12, 2023 3:23 pm 0
The earliest mainstream cultural reference to the Shoah of which I’m aware is the Twilight Zone episode, “Death’s Head Revisited,” which was broadcast in the early 60s. But it may have been an outlier. I just do not know. PS–There was one other TZ that focused on Nazism. It was called “He’s Alive,” and bruited that Nazism was alive and well in mainstream America at that time. Old Rod certainly got in on the ground floor of the Shoah bidniss, alright.
Moran ya Simba #381329 December 12, 2023 4:32 pm 0
Not sure when the Holocaust industry really took off but I heard that the shabby series called Holocaust with Meryl Streep and James Wood was a major breakthrough. That’s late 70s early 80s. Since then it’s been a subplot in every WWII movie
Moran ya Simba #381297 December 12, 2023 2:01 pm 0
This was an act of war against the historical American nation. How it was pulled off is a long story. The JQ was a factor, communist true believers played a role, historical ignorance had its part, shameless chutzpah shaming of those who saw the danger was there. It was war by treason and by other allegiances trumping loyalty to America
Paintersforms #381270 December 12, 2023 12:32 pm 0
I have a feeling we wouldn’t be having these discussions if there was a way to keep elites from drifting into the clouds and divorcing the dirts. Noblesse oblige, a sense of ‘my people’. Rome, France, the US, etc. Different ages, different circumstances, different political systems, but in each case, the people and their leaders lost touch. I want to say the USSR, too. Maybe that’s the secret sauce? Idk, throwing it out there.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381275 December 12, 2023 12:43 pm 0
Seems to be a natural cycle. Not much to do about other than keep out the invaders so your people and culture can rebuild after the decline. We failed to do that. We’re screwed. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, they’ll have their ups and downs but the people always survive to rise again.
Alzaebo #381287 December 12, 2023 1:05 pm 0
Web:“Japan still has about three times the population it had in 1900. Prediction: Japan will be much better off in 25 years than those countries who replaced their native populations through immigration.” The Yakuza don’t call anywhere else home. Try getting past them.
Jeffrey Zoar #381296 December 12, 2023 2:01 pm 0
In RoK they are starting to talk about immigration re: their 0.25 TFR
Moran ya Simba #381305 December 12, 2023 2:29 pm 0
If they do that, the only Korea in the future will be in the north
Citizen of a Silly Country #381307 December 12, 2023 2:37 pm 0
Well, then, they’re fucking retarded. It’s not as though that they don’t have dozens of examples in the West of how that works out. We can at least fool ourselves by saying that we didn’t know. They can’t.
Hemid #381312 December 12, 2023 2:47 pm 0
About a week ago, Korea’s shocking infertility became world news. Anyone interested in the subject already knew about it, but It was decided that right now everyone should hear about it. A couple days ago, in the face of this NEW CRISIS, the Korean government announced its intention to add a million immigrants a year—to a country not much larger than Kansas. Mass immigration isn’t the death of a country but a celebration of its murder, already accomplished.
Moran ya Simba #381330 December 12, 2023 4:34 pm 0
When your elites stop seeing themselves as part of the people your goose is cooked
Alzaebo #381269 December 12, 2023 12:30 pm 0
The best part of today’s, for me, is the contrast of function.Why belief? Why is man a believing animal?Because the function of the individual is a different thing than the funtion of the group.Emotionally neutral information seems best suited to individuals; the dense pyramid or template of accumulated facts can be constructed, brick by brick, at single leisure.Emotionally charged information, denoting position within a maneuvering group, doesn’t have time for such reflection.One doesn’t have time to consider, until later, the reasons of if and why this mofo is trying to step on you, or if they can be trusted, or why those howling savages are trying to come over the wall.Morality, then, is shallow water running quick; waves breaking on the surface of a deeper ocean.
Alzaebo #381277 December 12, 2023 12:45 pm 0
Addendum: facts and proofs are too dense and detailed to be communicated quickly; authority depends on a speedy demonstration of power. As one guy said of his oldest sister, a tyrant who rode herd on the rest of the kids when the parents were gone to work, “Justice was swift and immediate.” Or, as my dad said of grandpa, “The belt didn’t come off if you said no…the belt came off if you hesitated!”
Paintersforms #381278 December 12, 2023 12:45 pm 0
Maybe man believes because man has a soul. Maybe the soul is the believing thing, drawing from the depths. Like you say, maybe morality is at or near the surface, a mere code of conduct. Light reflects off of waves, right?
Diavolobello #381327 December 12, 2023 4:24 pm 0
On the other hand, I remember reading, somewhere, the theory that we didn’t evolve to perceive reality with perfect clarity, because it wasn’t necessary for reproduction and the survival of our offspring – our flawed, subjective perception was adequate for the job.
Alzaebo #381328 December 12, 2023 4:26 pm 0
Agree. What then is the function of a soul? Storage. To store nested information, memory, into a non-organic medium. One less fragile to corporeal dangers. Belief is compressed information.Belief allows us to work with very partial information. Gotta start somewhere, right? Since we lack the terms to properly describe the nonphysical, well, the signal-to-noise is the problem. Working to amend that. “Who says?” really does have an answer. That answer is the “Why”, defining the penultimate function.To get to both, one needs answer the What and How.
cg2 #381347 December 13, 2023 8:51 am 0
“Belief is compressed information.Belief allows us to work with very partial information. Gotta start somewhere, right?” I like that.
Jeffrey Zoar #381268 December 12, 2023 12:29 pm 0
4 classes of people? Fanatic, believer, skeptic, cynic? With believer to include most of your common unthinking idiots, making it the largest group.I’m gonna posit that class mobility between these is limited. Born a fanatic, always a fanatic. What one is fanatical about may change, but the fanaticism itself does not. I know people like this, and they are all women.I was probably born a skeptic, and reality turned me into a cynic. Relatively short hop. Cynic could be another word for dissident. Or perhaps a cynic is just a dissident who isn’t politically engaged.Going all the way from believer to cynic seems a lot harder to do, probably impossible for the majority, since being a believer in the first place means you aren’t naturally inclined to question enough to become a skeptic. But believer to fanatic seems like less of a journey, just needs the appropriate trigger. Such as an overhyped flu bug. Or some planes flying into buildings. Seen in this context, that dividing line between believer and fanatic seems permeable, one crosses back and forth. But it is a long, long journey from there all the way to skeptic.Meanwhile, regime media works overtime to keep one in the believer box. It may not be possible to break “free” while one is plugged into it. For people who watch a lot of tv it may not be possible at all. Think of your own experience, and how little TV you watched. I’ll bet there aren’t very many dissidents here who watched much tv in the years prior to their recognizing themselves as dissidents.
Ostei Kozelskii #381273 December 12, 2023 12:39 pm 0
Are cynicism and nihilism synonyms?
Jeffrey Zoar #381276 December 12, 2023 12:44 pm 0
They’re related. All nihilists are cynics, but not all cynics are nihilists.
Eloi #381279 December 12, 2023 12:48 pm 0
The problem with the taxonomy is belief and cynicism are not mutually exclusive.A person can believe in God and be cynical in regards to people. The Bible even supports this reading. Faith in one location does not exclude faith in another.Reductionism is often problematic; we are not mechanical objects.
Eloi #381280 December 12, 2023 12:48 pm 0
“Cynicism in another”*
Jeffrey Zoar #381286 December 12, 2023 1:04 pm 0
You’re right, but even so, if you separate out religious belief from the classifications, I think it works pretty well for matters purely terrestrial
WhereAreTheVikings #381290 December 12, 2023 1:29 pm 0
Believer to fanatic can be a product of a male being raised solely by females, and having no other influence in the home, neurotically channeling thoughts and feelings best kept on a somewhat stoic leash. This is especially true now that females have taken over many, if not most, principals’ offices. The male principal alternately throwing a football on the playground and swinging a paddle was the last line of defense after the ink dried on the no-fault divorce laws. Not only has he been banished, we have added illegitimacy rates and grrrrllpower to the plight of young boys. God help young men in this country.
ray #381956 December 18, 2023 9:15 am 0
He is trying, but it’s an uphill grind. America has persecuted, degraded, and demeaned ‘her’ boys for decades.
Zulu Juliet #381267 December 12, 2023 12:26 pm 0
“The skeptic, on the other hand, lacks the ability to naturally communicate with the typical person because he questions what is asserted.” This. It is difficult to tell folks voting is a waste of time without sounding like the crazy uncle (particularly if you ARE the crazy uncle).
Intelligent Dasein #381266 December 12, 2023 12:21 pm 0
The willingness to accept something as true, without evidence to support it, is the essence of belief.I have a somewhat different take on this.Belief is always a rational (that is, a spiritual) act. Specifically, it is the act of giving intellectual assent to the truth of a proposition. The proposition may be offered with evidence or without it, but in either case the act of assenting to it is fundamentally the same.All communication carries with it a certain presumption of truth because we can always infer that when someone communicates something to us, he intends for us to believe it. It is almost as if every written and spoken word were appended with the closing remark, “And furthermore, everything I just said is true.” In actual practice, we usually omit any explicit avowal that we are indeed speaking the truth, but it is implied in the very act of speaking.The liar, therefore, commits his first sin not against us but against the truth itself. Communication is meant to incite belief; and belief, being the assent of the intellect, should only be offered to the truth; therefore, we must trust that communication is true before we believe it, and so we must trust the heart of the communicator. But if the communicator proposes something to us that he himself knows to be false, he cannot, of course, say that “everything I just said is true” without making a categorically false statement. In order to lie, you have to impugn the truth itself.This all might sound vaguely like the Kantian Categorical Imperative. Generally speaking, I am not a fan of Kant, and the idea that lies are self-defeating is certainly not original to Kant, but it is probably Kant’s formulation that modern audiences are the most familiar with. It is here, if anywhere, that the Categorical Imperative has its clearest application. Telling a lie is like offering counterfeit money in exchange for goods—money which you would nowise be willing to receive yourself, therefore proving that you know the valuelessness of it. This is also what makes liars morally culpable. Normal people are very ashamed to be caught in a lie and they have strong reservations against ever telling one, even if they stand to benefit from it. If they aren’t motivated by a sense of personal rectitude, they still fear the punishment and disgrace that exposure would bring.The distortions present in modern democracies are not so much deliberate falsehoods as they are “alternative truth models” fortified by simulations of evidence and backed by authority. To return to our monetary example, they are like the fiat currency of the realm. While we all realize at some level that these notes are essentially valueless, they are still considered “money” within a certain domain and the average person has little choice but to accept them if he wants to buy or sell anything. It is not for nothing that the libertarians have often considered the state to be nothing but the biggest counterfeiter; on the other hand, the utility of fiat money is so easily recognized that it’s difficult to condemn the idea altogether. Perhaps these “alternative truth models” also serve a purpose by facilitating social cohesion and are harmless enough as long as they don’t get too far out of line.That would be the standard liberal answer, and it might be thought that such things as the Civil Rights movement and the general indulgence of outsiders and deviant groups started out as minor concessions that a prosperous society could well enough afford and have only latterly gotten out of control due to their amplification by “fanatics and charlatans.” There is some merit to that argument, but to conclude that this is the whole story would be to miss the intrinsic evil of some of the underlying notions.It is always wrong for a government to so disarrange the ends of human life such that it compels its citizens to sacrifice a greater end for a subordinate end, but this is exactly what modern social liberalism has always done. The state is a greater good than any one individual, therefore it is not wrong for the state to compel an individual to die for it, such as in a time of war when the existence of the nation is imperiled. But it is by no means right for the state to compel one citizen to sacrifice himself for another citizenas such, simply to bring about some sort of social or economic equality. This is not proper to any type of legitimate political authority, nor is it even logical. No individual as such can be a greater end to me than myself, because among individuals as such my primary duty is to myself, which holds true everywhere and always.The reforms of modern liberalism are, objectively speaking, wrong. They never should have been codified into law, but even after having been legalized, they are still devoid of moral authority, and it is perfectly right and fitting that men should rebel against them. If multiple groups of people of differing tendencies are to be bracketed together in one state, the state cannot take the side of one group without losing its authority over the others. All that the state can rightfully do is ensure civil relations between the groups. That is the critical point.Although this might seem too philosophical for some commenters, it should not be hidden from the intellect of man—nor, for long, can it be—that modern liberalism has overstepped its bounds. There is something wrong with it, not just in practice but also in theory. The better that error in theory is elucidated and corrected, the better also will be the corrections we can bring to practice.
Steve #381304 December 12, 2023 2:27 pm 0
“The state is a greater good than any one individual…” I disagree. The society may be a greater good. The test of that is whether people are willing to defend the society. But if the state is the idea that one man should have authority over another, that will never be a greater good, any more than rape or slavery would be. I agreed with the rest, though. Maybe I misunderstood? Though you specifically said it was moral for a state to command someone to die for it’s sake…
Intelligent Dasein #381341 December 12, 2023 9:09 pm 0
Hello Steve, thank you for your comment.I apologize if my word choice caused any confusion. I am simply employing the classical idea of statehood here.There are senses in which the individual or the family are more important than the state. The individual is the only locus of moral worth, for only individuals (not nations, tribe, or peoples) can be saved or damned, and only individuals can make decisions and act. So, if it comes down to a choice between serving the state and saving one’s soul, you must save your soul. There can be no debate about that.Likewise, the family is more natural, more fundamental, and more necessary for the perpetuation of the species than the state is, so families have certain rights against which the state cannot lawfully intrude.But only the state, being a sort of symbol of the rational order, can serve the higher human needs for justice and law, so that individuals and families can live in peace. The state commands the highest reverence of the merely human institutions; thus, serving the state is considered the fitting duty of noble characters, and treachery against the state is punished with death. It was according to this scheme, for instance, that Dante placed traitors to the state in a lower order of hell than those who were only unfaithful to kin.
TomA #381263 December 12, 2023 12:05 pm 0
If you want to confer useful wisdom onto succeeding generations of your tribe, the best way to accomplish this goal is via hard-wiring of the brain during the formative years of a child’s development (typically 3 to 7 years old, when the brain doubles in size and neural pathways are reinforced). These seminal habits of mind become the bedrock of all future behaviors. And all of this is a product of evolutionary forces. What works, persists.In a natural environment of hardship and existential threat, wisdom is refined by tangible experience (e.g. being stupid gets you dead and out of the gene pool). But in a civilized environment utterly lacking in tangible feedback, anything can substitute for wisdom because there is no penalty.We are poorly led in our current era of gross affluence because there is no longer any feedback loop of accountability and penalty. Incumbency is 97+%, despite obvious examples of sociopathic criminality in our elected class. Worse yet is that most are genuine idiots (Hello John Fetterman). But we reelect them over and over, and thereby earn our fate.We must break this cycle of degeneracy and decline, or we are all doomed. That is our imperative if we want to survive. And no, vote-harder is a proven failure, so don’t go there Dan.
cg2 #381257 December 12, 2023 11:50 am 0
Very good food for thought. I’ve been called a cynic since teenager, but didn’t begin to become skeptical about Truth Justice and the American Way until Obama.
Maus #381253 December 12, 2023 11:40 am 0
Democracy is nothing but rule by the mob. When the mob are idiots then stupidity will reign. The only real power of consequence to the individual then is the power to be left alone. But fanatics won’t allow that heresy, so a contrarian individual must conform or burn. At that point, any morality underpinning belief has been transcended by a religion which demands purity and sacrifices, blood running down the neo-Aztec pyramids and a growing heap of skulls.
RealityRules #381248 December 12, 2023 11:14 am 0
The real rot of the system is that the moral claims are not based on a real morality. Morality is not being nice to everyone, giving away some other person’s things to strangers or trying to eliminate, “hate.” Heck, the latter is a false accusation if not mostly a projection so it is impossible for it to be moral.That road has led to the present moment. Primary school keeps people morally stunted. The culture introduces and sanctions this anti-morality. The University is a finishing school that cements status networks that require adopting the anti-morality in order to belong. It isn’t very hard since most of these midling at best minds think that being nice is being moral. Then to signal and affirm membership they destroy people’s lives, enforce a race based caste system that robs the meritorious of opportunity as just a beginning of the expression of their anti-morality.It took The West many great minds and much sincere, good faith discourse and intellectual engagement as well as testing within reality to establish a very sophisticated morality. This goes back thousands of years. Then We built institutions to safeguard, refine, develop and enforce this true morality. It wasn’t an abstraction. It was based on cause and consequence in the real world.I don’t know if pointing out to these people that they are immoral is going to be effective. I think they are so convinced of their goodness and the power and status they attain and wield with it are too strong a contervailing force. They aren’t here to be convinced. They are here to feast on a carcass.I think we are going to have to return to the realm of reality and cause and consequence within it. Unfortunately, their anti-morality is so vast in scope in terms of the damage it is doing, we may need to suspend our sense of morality entirely to do the things needed to restore it once we have created the conditions to do so. I hope I am wrong. The folks at White Papers Policy Institute offer highly moral and decent ways out. Give them a look and support if you can.https://whitepapersinstitute.substack.com/
WillS #381315 December 12, 2023 3:02 pm 0
I suspect they do not question the morality or rightness of their actions. They are in charge and have power. That sis all that matters.
JR Wirth #381242 December 12, 2023 10:53 am 0
Covid was a life changing event for me. If 80% of the people around you believe that a thin layer of teflon paper over their faces protected them from anything, with 10% of them layering the masks, and 80% of the people around me thinking the shots protect you from getting it in the first place, they’ll believe ANYTHING. And I mean ANYTHING. They could also believe one day that a preemptive nuclear strike is an only option for dealing with (insert enemy). I always thought democracy was stupid a failure, but it’s more than that. It should be terrifying to any thoughtful person.
Compsci #381246 December 12, 2023 11:11 am 0
I believe in the public’s gullibility (today’s Z-man observation), but I also note in defense of the general public your particular example is conflated with prior good will of the public for the medical profession.My general impression is that the medical profession was the last bastion of belief (institution) in “the system” to fall. The COVID scamdemic was an eye opener for many in this regard—myself included. One by one, the institutions we once held in esteem have fallen and now we are all—or should be all—skeptics. Perhaps even skeptics on their way to becoming cynics.That being said, a certain percentage of the populace will never complete, or even start, this journey so your observation holds true.
Bourbon #381258 December 12, 2023 11:55 am 0
Compsci: “…the medical profession was the last bastion of belief (institution) in “the system” to fall…” This thing with Barry Young & the depopulationist Pfizer v@xxines in New Zealand is a tipping point. Epidemiology here:http://tinyurl.com/4jch6jn5 Legalistics here:https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/covid-jab-whistleblower-appears-in-court/ If “they” get away with un-person-ing Barry Young, then you can start singing the various swan songs of the Anglosphere. http://tinyurl.com/wf3akm2e
Bourbon #381252 December 12, 2023 11:29 am 0
Z: “…fanatics and charlatans have come to dominate Western countries. Since the Cold War, the West has embraced the idea of democracy, which has unleashed the fanatics and charlatans… the people will follow fanatics promising salvation…”==========JR Wirth: “…they’ll believe ANYTHING. And I mean ANYTHING…”==========What’s new this time around is the iPh@g and the Scr0tial Media.Basking in the warmth & exhilaration of the instantaneous real-time Dopamine Hits has the effect of exponentially accelerating the downstream devastation; but there’s never the experience of regret, because the Dopamine Hits just keep cumming & cumming & cumming.If we do not succeed in putting Cluster B back into Pandora’s Box, then Cluster B will destroy all of our Creator’s Creation.==========Matthew 5:5Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.==========PRO-TIP: Just about everything we ever needed to know about life in KlownWorld was already taught to us in an epic sociological kindergarten pamphlet…http://tinyurl.com/53xs9yrv
Tars Tarkas #381254 December 12, 2023 11:46 am 0
Why wouldn’t they believe the mask story? Everyone has been in a hospital at some point in their lives, even if only visiting someone. Everyone has seen operating rooms, at least on TV and everyone is wearing a mask. Not to mention the social proof. When you went out, everyone else was wearing them.I only didn’t believe the mask story because I saw how people were using them. I saw people putting their masks in their pockets and reusing them over and over. I saw people wearing cloth masks, which are even more ridiculous than the gas station blue paper disposable masks most people wore.Finally, there was cost. What is the cost of wearing masks? It’s practically zero. People bought into the mask narrative because it was easy and had the appearance of doing something and having control over something they had no control over. Without masks and social distancing, what are all the so-called “public health experts” doing? Why do we even need these people if they cannot deal with the spread of the coof? It gave everyone the comforting illusion of having some sort of control of your destiny.
Ostei Kozelskii #381284 December 12, 2023 12:56 pm 0
But mask-wearing was only part of the fatuousness. Believing that Covid was the Black Death was the other. Almost immediately I bowled out that masks were a useless periapt against a wildly overblown threat. Now I had no reason to expect the masses to be as quick on the draw as I was, but their utter laggardliness, which still obtains to a certain degree, is unforgiveable.
Tars Tarkas #381295 December 12, 2023 1:56 pm 0
In the very beginning, Covid looked quite scary. I became aware of it very early on, like January or early February 2020. The images of people falling on their face in public was pretty alarming. The bioweapons lab found a km away from where it supposedly originated in that wet market added even more worry.But I do agree it became obvious fairly early on that it was no black death. This became especially obvious when over the course of a single day people gathering went from killing grandma to being essential to public health when Saint Fentanyl died for our sins or something and everyone had to pay their respects to the good saint by burning down a public building or cop car. Then, after a sufficient time was spent paying respects to the good saint, all of the sudden gatherings were once again off limits.One day, when we are further removed from Covid, a good comprehensive case study will come out documenting all of the failures and lessons to be learned. It revealed so much about our society, almost all of it bad and unflattering.But this is about what is public. I believe it is probably being studied by every government in the world. They know what worked, what didn’t, what the limitations were, what messaging worked and what failed.The one thing I think is safe to say about what Covid revealed about us is that we are totally incapable of dealing with a true health emergency. That society is far too fractured to ever come together even in the face off our own mortality.
Ostei Kozelskii #381323 December 12, 2023 3:35 pm 0
Well, I must say that I was already mightily predisposed to regard pronouncements from on high as utter bullshit, and that applied to the Covid narrative as well. But if you innately trusted authority, as older AINOians tended to do, you were apt to be mighty slow on the uptake vis-a-vis the Power Structure’s Covid lies.
Tars Tarkas #381325 December 12, 2023 3:55 pm 0
@Ostel In the beginning, all I knew about Covid was short films coming out of China. I wasn’t “following the experts” who were mostly silent on the issue, I was believing videos that leaked out of China.I remind you people were falling on their faces in China. The hospitals were loaded with people. There were videos of Chinese authorities locking people in their apartment buildings. Any accompanying audio was in Chinese. The Western press was ignoring or downplaying it. IIRC, Nancy Pelosi was saying it was racist to not go shopping in Chinatown. Shortly thereafter, the “hug an Asian” video came out from Italy. A few days after that, there was a huge breakout in Italy (which was hilarious). They were still calling it the Wuhan Flu at the time. Most of what I heard I heard from 2 sources. Chris Martenson (A goldbug I follow who also happens to also be a microbiologist by training) and Metokur.So sue me if I did not just reflexively blow it off.
Jeffrey Zoar #381331 December 12, 2023 4:37 pm 0
On the contrary, society came together pretty well for the first 2 or 3 months of it. It wasn’t until it became apparent that it wasn’t anywhere near what it was cracked up to be that this cohesion fractured. So we were capable of dealing with a health emergency. But we aren’t anymore, because they cried wolf.
cg2 #381349 December 13, 2023 9:17 am 0
“I believe it is probably being studied by every government in the world. They know what worked, what didn’t, what the limitations were, what messaging worked and what failed.” But will they realize that it will never work as well again?
Steve #381322 December 12, 2023 3:31 pm 0
“I only didn’t believe the mask story because I saw how people were using them.” I only didn’t believe it because I’ve designed and installed air handling systems in a number of chemical plants. I have first-hand data of what happens when you surge or backflush a HEPA filter, which would happen with every exhalation, and especially every cough or sneeze. Had they recommended a filter with the exhale valve, maybe. But the straight N95 or the silly surgical masks? Right. There’s a reason industrial air filters don’t use those.
Danny #381260 December 12, 2023 11:56 am 0
It’s easier to be fearful that to be courageous and calm in the face of a challenge. It would seem that fear is a cornerstone of fanaticism as well.
Ostei Kozelskii #381282 December 12, 2023 12:52 pm 0
I too dwell in that frigid, remote cave, JR, and it is no picnic! The groveling credulity before almighty Covid crushed what respect I had for the human race. And if you have no faith in the basic wisdom and decency of humanity, how can you support allowing the imbecilic masses to hold power? Look at all the idiots and clods who surround you. You really think they should be in charge of anything more consequential than tying their shoes? I sure don’t.
cg2 #381351 December 13, 2023 9:32 am 0
I feel like you might be a bit harsh in judgement:1) Wuflu was obviously a manmade virus that was extremely virulent and a factor of as much as 10 times more deadly than regular annual flues. I witnessed 30 somethings spending a week in the hospital in my own neighborhood.2) The event was hyped by a full court press I haven’t witnessed in my lifetime, including 911 and extending right down to all of our regular long time physicians. The question is what number of people have had an awakening due to the obviously horrible reaction to it.
Ostei Kozelskii #381432 December 13, 2023 1:06 pm 0
The initial Covid strain was more virulent than your typical flu, but nowhere close to 10 times so. The Covid death toll is wildly exaggerated, perhaps 90 percent less than the official numbers. In fact, it’s not out of the question that the so-called “vax” has killed more people than the disease it supposedly guards against.
Robbo #381348 December 13, 2023 9:05 am 0
Same here. I thought I was a cynic pre-Covid. In reality I didn’t know the meaning of the word. Covid was the parting of the ways.
Jack Boniface #381240 December 12, 2023 10:49 am 0
There is a natural limit to belief, which is a belief in procreation. The Shakers died out because they belived having children was evil. The Mainline Protestants are dying out because they believed the Population Bomb hoax; they are being replaced by Evangelical Protestants who believe having a lot of kids is good. The Traditional Catholics are gradually replacing the liberal Catholics. Orthodox Jews are replacing liberal Jews. Muslims are growing in most places because they believe children are good. China has a depopulation problem because the CCP imposed its one-child policy 40 years ago, and how is having a hard time getting beyond it after repeal. India still is growing because Hindu nationalism embraces more children. And so on.
ArthurinCali #381239 December 12, 2023 10:42 am 0
I used to believe in civic nationalism and the idea of the global populace buying a ticket to the (American) story and ideals. Funnily enough, around the time I held these beliefs was 30+ years ago in an America that had a firmly entrenched demographic majority of Heritage Americans. (Roughly 80% IIRC)See, that’s kinda of the paradox of the idea of a successful nation operating under civic nationalism in that you still need a majority ethnic population who puts their full faith in the mythos of said nation’s founding, institutions, and ideals. Once it hits a certain fracturing of population and becomes majority-minority, with no one group asserting dominance – this gives rise to overt tribal tendencies. Diversity is not a strength. If it were, nations like Japan and China would be importing as many diverse groups as possible to get an edge on the global economic competition.Still, if we lived in a reality based sane and serious nation that spoke the truth on differences a la Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore, it could have worked. This would require media, academia and gov’t to cease the relentless attack on the historical figures actions and events that led to the creation of the USA. No, not celebrate outright the dark corners of a nation’s history (that all nations have, Western and non-Western), but understand that each apology, every condescending remark merely removes another brick of the foundation of American mythos and her founding.This is part of how I found myself admitting more and more that I am a part of the Dissident Right. I will vote for Trump-not as a faithful belief that he will be our Red Caesar but more as a wrench into the leviathan machine that hates me and my people.“Since all nations lay claim to a unique place in history and to certain boundaries, all national identities are exclusionary. In that sense, all nations are ethnic nations […] Brubaker elaborates on this, claiming that there are two different ways of mapping culture onto the ethnic-civic distinction. Ethnic nationalism may be interpreted narrowly, as involving an emphasis on descent. In this case, Brubaker argues, there is very little ethnic nationalism around, since on this view an emphasis on common culture has to be coded as a species of civic nationalism. If, however, ethnic nationalism is interpreted broadly, as ethnocultural, while civic nationalism is interpreted narrowly, as involving a cultural conception of citizenship, the problem is the opposite: ‘civic nationalism gets defined out of existence, and virtually all nationalisms would be coded as ethnic or cultural’. Even the paradigmatic cases of civic nationalism, France and America, would cease to count as civic nationalism, since they have a crucial cultural component.”— Umut Özkırımlı, Contemporary Debates on Nationalism: A Critical Introduction, pp.24-5
krustykurmudgeon #381235 December 12, 2023 10:31 am 0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVxZyRvzPIw is this the future of american business? I feel these people have discovered a special sauce. High wages combined with a culture of being high quality in whatever they do is the key. If you have that, there’s no need to have a union, even if I am pro-union by default.
Compsci #381250 December 12, 2023 11:28 am 0
The bottom line however is that those salaries must be paid for out of profit (duh). So can Buckies survive if a McDonalds opens up next door? Can any retail business survive if folks first go to their laptop to order from Amazon?I don’t have answers here, but it would seem a good start if our elites talked more about America—as in American business—*first*! (I know, I know….). Hell, I’ve discussed here repeatedly my refusal to use those ubiquitous self checkout lines in the stores and such as they lead directly to job loss for the position of cashier—which pays at least a living wage.
Jeffrey Zoar #381256 December 12, 2023 11:48 am 0
McDonald’s of 20 years ago, maybe. McDonald’s of today offers little to no competition. Maybe a Chick Fil A next door could hurt them. But Buc-ee’s only real competition are truck stops that offer lower quality (and generally fewer choices) along with their lower prices. The bottom line is there’s nothing like Buc-ee’s anywhere. Never has been. And people are willing to pay a little extra for that.
JerseyJeffersonian #381259 December 12, 2023 11:55 am 0
Likewise for eschewing self-checkout, and for the same reasons.
krustykurmudgeon #381306 December 12, 2023 2:30 pm 0
@Compsci– couldn’t you argue against corporations on freedom of association grounds? Like if you have a successful independent business and a national conglomerate opens next door and puts you out of business, you should have legal recourse.
RememberTheAMPM #381324 December 12, 2023 3:47 pm 0
There was a Claremont review of an NPR guy’s book about Texas — in the 2010s, actually an insta-genre in liberal publishing, of which maybe this book wasn’t the worst entry — by infamous fat guy Kevin Williamson, which hinged on its dismissive (Williamson says) treatment of Buc-ee’s. This just happened to be the first Texan (NPR guy) straying into the wheelhouse of second Texan (Williamson) and it was a thing of true violence; hilarious number of errors detailed, e.g. that Buc-ee’s isn’t a truck stop and excludes vehicles w/ 4 axles or more. Anyway the upshot apparently being, the chain is sui generis and almost a counterexample of the deplorables trend the NPR guy was flogging. I’m not from Texas, there was a bit overmuch of a measuring contest going on there; but I did live in the central part of the state for several years (not Austin) and observed the market impact of Buc-ee’s, e.g. similar but lower-ambition chains like QuikTrip moving in from Oklahoma, which are nonetheless a huge improvement over the ethnically subcontinental stereotype of gas stations I knew from home ands which are still predominant there. I’m certain the same thing has to be happening in other states because, Whisky voice, white women hate hate HATE dirty gas stations. It is such an apparently dumb business to go into, making 1 or 2 cents a gallon off each sale in California, it makes sense for an entrepreneur to concentrate on the unglamorous convenience store part of it. The War Street Journal had an article in the style section a few weeks ago about hipsters who travel nicer gas station convenience stores in Flyover in order to re-sell the vintage tacky baseball caps in Brookyln.
Paintersforms #381231 December 12, 2023 10:27 am 0
There’s no revolution or counterrevolution because there’s still a rough consensus among elites. That’s a ‘democracy trap’ re: voting harder. This will change as things eventually get bad for the elites, too— then they’ll start representing the will of the people lol. At that point, democracy might not look as bad, but the corrective actions required will. Funny thing, the general will, and how it works.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381234 December 12, 2023 10:30 am 0
Yep. College campuses have been a hotbed of anti-white and anti-Christian hate for decades. Some protesters chant support for the Palestinians and college presidents are called before Congress and then fired within weeks. It’s all about the elite.
Tarl Cabot #381228 December 12, 2023 10:15 am 0
The American Founders thought that their democracy (such as it was) would be guided and balanced by the rational “interests” of its citizens, all contending vigorously though peacefully in the marketplace of ideas. What they fatally failed to anticipate was that those interests would be disguised or even denied as each faction tried to usurp the moral high ground and the unimpeachable authority of the sacred victim. In the end, Democracy is just a morality play for the masses while oligarchs make bank. Other systems may be no better, but are at least somewhat more honest about that, as they don’t pretend not to have a ruling class.Yes, I am a Cynic.
Paintersforms #381233 December 12, 2023 10:29 am 0
They were giving people too much credit, thinking they’re rational actors. Big problem with a lot of Enlightenment thought.
JerseyJeffersonian #381255 December 12, 2023 11:47 am 0
With the radical drive toward, and expansion of, the voting franchise, any pretentions of thoughtful, and longer-term thinking about societal priorities and the organization to facilitate them being implemented went out the window. As we moved inexorably closer to the Founders’ dread fear, democracy, the impetus toward self-dealing – regardless of the longer term consequences for the viability of republican governance, and the cultivation of virtues that conduce toward that end – became an avalanche, helped along by the fertile ground for demagoguery heedless of rationality and sustainability. And here we are.
WillS #381334 December 12, 2023 4:59 pm 0
Only male land owners could vote. Skin in the game makes a difference.
Mr. Generic #381236 December 12, 2023 10:34 am 0
> What they fatally failed to anticipate was that those interests would be disguised or even denied as each faction tried to usurp the moral high ground and the unimpeachable authority of the sacred victim. What they fatally failed to anticipate was that they and their posterity would be replaced in their own country. The system worked very well for two generations, until enough immigrants had arrived to elect Lincoln the Terrible.
Götterdamn-it-all #381244 December 12, 2023 10:59 am 0
I loved that Lincoln remark. You, sir, are a true cynic. Welcome to the Brotherhood.
JerseyJeffersonian #381261 December 12, 2023 11:59 am 0
And with many of these immigrants coming from monarchies and/or autocracies, or being radically leftist, they would think this only natural.
WhereAreTheVikings #381291 December 12, 2023 1:42 pm 0
Yes, and – the joke is on the feminists – they are patriarchal.
bruce g charlton #381227 December 12, 2023 10:10 am 0
“To get a better sense of the power of belief, think about a race of humans that is devoid of belief so all claims must be backed by proof.”This is a false opposition between belief and proof; because what counts as proof depends upon prior belief – as is obvious when you try to use proof to change somebody’s beliefs.You later say: “Humans in the main are believing machines so they will believe in something. ”Which is much closer to the reality that is humans Do (rather than will) believe in something; including self-styled skeptics. It is a question of what is assumed; and there can be no discourse without assumptions.The problem at present is that all mainstream secular beliefs are incoherent; exactly because they have rejected God/ s. The official (and global) assumption is that there can be facts and proofs without any metaphysical assumptions.What actually happens is that facts and proof become purely an arbitrary matter of power/ wealth/ influence.Nobody in mainstream public discourse really believes because their assertions are incoherent, therefore they just “believe” This, then That, then Something else – according to expediency and regardless of whether thye add-up, which they never do.The result of fundamental incoherence is the destruction we see everywhere.It is inevitable that because it is officially true that the universe has no purpose, then there can be no meaning to life or any of its components – and without meaning “beliefs” must merely be rag-bags of expediency and feel-goods.
thezman #381230 December 12, 2023 10:25 am 0
The point I was making is that without the willingness to accept as true, without proof, things told to us by parents, teachers, and so forth, we cannot be anything like humans. Belief is integral to who we are as a species. As I have argued many times, belief needs authority. We killed the gods and replaced them with the Jewish God. Then we killed God and replaced him with reason. it turns out that reason is not much of an authority.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381238 December 12, 2023 10:41 am 0
That’s the issue. Reason can’t cut it as a religion, an authority. It’s a way of thinking, not a set of beliefs.Democracy also fails as an authority because 1) it eventually can’t pass the question of “says who” and 2) its tenets are so malleable that the elites can’t be held to any standard.Democracy coasted off the achievements of its predecessors. Sure, a homogeneous country of high-trust, high-IQ people who agreed on certain values could make a democracy (republic) work. But those ingredients were created by the environment and systems before, not by democracy itself.Democracy is the entitled, foolish trust fund kid of the forms of government world. Sooner or later, it burns through what was given to it and falls apart.
ray #381247 December 12, 2023 11:12 am 0
You ‘killed’ some angels acting under pretense of gods and goddesses.Graduated from two-way theatre.Then you and those angels killed the real God, that you call the ‘Jewish God’, like He lived in a hut at Gilgal or something.Then folks decided they don’t need no God or gods, and became their own gods and goddesses, as convenient.With prompting, folks decided they had become Enlightened, and your deities became humanism, egalitarianism, and reason (now, godling techno-science).However, whether God or gods ‘n goddesses, right along men essentially have worshipped women, and women have worshipped, well, themselves.And here we all are now.
Tars Tarkas #381262 December 12, 2023 12:02 pm 0
The self-styled skeptic believes in all kinds of ridiculous things. 95% of them believe in every progressive dogma that exists. Just try telling these people there is no patriarchy or that natural inequality exists.
george 1 #381225 December 12, 2023 10:05 am 0
I guess I would fall into the cynic category on most things concerning the West today. However, maybe I can turn around. Yes. I think I can. I believe that all of the Marxists and nut cases in charge today really are trying to kill us all. We are ruled by a foreign elite who are plotting our enslavement and eventual demise. Bill Gates will occasionally even say so. It is all Yuval Harari talks about. So you see. I am really a true believer, a fanatic. I feel better now.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381223 December 12, 2023 10:02 am 0
“There is another piece to this. Humans in the main are believing machines so they will believe in something. This provides another advantage for the fanatic. In the absence of a better belief, the typical person will still listen to the fanatic, despite his many factual errors, until a better set of beliefs come along.”This is the key. If I’ve learned anything around here, it’s that politics is a morality tale. The secular, gay-loving media and politician’s rhetoric crashes against the rocks of a devout Muslim or Christian. The Muslim and Christian have a “better belief” and so ignore the fanatic.This is why democracy hates independent religions as much as communism. The religions provide a competing morality and that can’t be allow. The Soviet Union simply wiped out the church. The democratic West mocked religion to get most people to abandon it and then co-opted the remaining churches.This is also why democracy hates nationalism. Ancestry, culture and history combine to form a competing morality. A proud Frenchman would laugh at (and then hate) the fanatic calling for millions of Arabs and Africans to come to France to make it more diverse.Even the milk toast “America First” was instantly recognized by the string-pullers to be a threat. It was the seedling of a competing morality.And this is how democracy dies and its fanatics ignored. Democracy relies on everyone accepting the right – the morality – of other voters to tell them what to do, how to live. If 51% of voters say that black people should be given homes in white neighborhoods to improve diversity and wealth inequality, you have to go along with it.But what if you reject the right of other voters to tell you what to do. That’s what makes nationalism or religion so dangerous to democracy. If you have a people, you only accept their right to tell you what to do, not outsiders. In essence, you have a different set of beliefs that override the morality of democracy.Democracy relies on a couple of things. First, everyone feels enough of a connection with other voters to accept the majority’s decision. Second, people need to believe that the elections are fair. Finally, the system needs to run reasonably smoothly.If any one of those three aren’t true, democracy will falter and likely die. What we’re witnessing is a deterioration, but not collapse, of all three.
Marko #381251 December 12, 2023 11:28 am 0
People on our side like to bash Democracy and I don’t blame them. Though the problem I see with with Democracy is it really can’t scale well. Unlike other gov’t systems it also requires intelligent and engaged citizens, and of course a large helping of high trust people. The bigger and more apathetic and more diverse it gets, the worse it is. I like democracy, and I’d prefer that system if I lived in a society of 500,000 like-minded citizens. But in a country of 350 million passport-Americans, I’d prefer the enlightened autocrat.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381283 December 12, 2023 12:52 pm 0
Never looked into it, but the West’s cycle of warlord/dictator > king > nobility oligarchy > elite republic > democracy > warlord/dictator seems to be generally a western thing.Other parts of the word tend to stop at warlord/dictator or nobility oligarchy. I’m not sure that they even made it to elite republic before we imposed it.I have no clue what comes next. I doubt that we’ll get out enlightened dictator. Probably nobility oligarchy masquerading as democracy will stick around for awhile. Seems to work in South America and California.Basically, I think that the old western cycle is done because we have a different population.
Steve #381310 December 12, 2023 2:43 pm 0
” A proud Frenchman would laugh at (and then hate) the fanatic calling for millions of Arabs and Africans to come to France to make it more diverse.” That was not the fanatic but the skeptic at the root of things. He was the one who said traditional French culture was bad for one reason or another, and the cure for it was multiculturalism. It was the man who questioned French culture that destroyed French culture.
Sgt Pedantry #381220 December 12, 2023 9:39 am 0
Z, do you believe in the Holocaust?
thezman #381221 December 12, 2023 9:42 am 0
Never heard of it.
Alzaebo #381245 December 12, 2023 11:11 am 0
Genius answer. When they start gabbling on*, the next question would be, “uh, okay. So, how’d they do that?”That’s what turned me. *about how your people need to be erased
Marko #381222 December 12, 2023 9:52 am 0
The willingness to accept something as true, without evidence to support it, is the essence of belief.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381224 December 12, 2023 10:04 am 0
Yep, Caesar really stuck it to the Gauls.
Marko #381229 December 12, 2023 10:16 am 0
That was the Gaulocaust.
Melissa #381237 December 12, 2023 10:40 am 0
I saw the piles of 6 gazillion sandals.
Citizen of a Silly Country #381308 December 12, 2023 2:38 pm 0
Even worse, I heard that the Romans wouldn’t let the Gauls into their country club. It’s known as the Golfocaust.
Ostei Kozelskii #381303 December 12, 2023 2:20 pm 0
He Shoah did…
Pres. IvyLeague #381318 December 12, 2023 3:10 pm 0
From opening of “Norm Macdonald Live w/ Fred Stoller” podcast (2013):“The doctor says it’s quite alarming and that I’m in a lot of trouble… And I said, well, I think it’s funny, and I’m the comedian; so let’s agree to disagree… He goes, ‘I will not agree to disagree, I will disagree.’ And I said, what’s the distinction? Isn’t agreeing to disagree the same, essentially, as disagreeing? No, he says, it’s not… ‘If I agree to disagree it gives more credence to your side of the argument, that that would be as unconscionable as if I were agreeing with a Holocaust revisionist.’ And I said: ‘Are you going to bring up the Holocaust every time you give me a physical?’ “
imbroglio #381219 December 12, 2023 9:37 am 0
Here in Covidia (the home of a slew of D.I.E. colleges/universities) where some community events still require masking and vaxports (Booster #5 may phase into a new universal vax,) these measures were explicitly sold as public virtue. “My mask/vax keeps you safe from me, your mask/vax keeps me safe from you.”Any and all info that questions either the vax or the mask is labelled “disinformation” and banished (not censored in that you can find the “misinformation” if you search for it.) In any event, The Science (prefixed with the definite article) rules.Like the BLM signs on affluent white lawns where persons of color are not to be found, our belief in our righteousness is unshakable. We’ll support a totalitarian dictatorship if it enforces our progressive, cost-free privilege.We have transcended cognitive dissonance. For good or ill, that’s quite an achievement.
Zulu Juliet #381265 December 12, 2023 12:15 pm 0
“We’ll support a totalitarian dictatorship if it enforces our progressive, cost-free privilege…” and we will call it “democracy”. Just like calling face diapers and cooties shots “science”. And two dudes living together “marriage”.
ProZNoV #381218 December 12, 2023 9:36 am 0
I’m reminded of that old chestnut about marriage: “Go into a democracy with eyes wide open, go through a democracy with eyes half shut”. For the sake of sanity, some things are best when not too closely examined. Most things, even.
Steve #381232 December 12, 2023 10:28 am 0
Funny you bring up the marriage reference, I saw a meme a few weeks ago that depicted a father walking with his young son. The son looks up at the father and says, “Dad, did you know that in some parts of the world, you don’t know who you’re marrying until the day you get married?” The father replies, “Son, it’s like that everywhere.”I laughed my ass of at that one. The wife wasn’t too happy – not that I give a shit at this point.
usNthem #381217 December 12, 2023 9:34 am 0
Great post today and outlines exactly where we are today, particularly in the US, but also the west in general. Of course, the skeptics will say, but Z, were not a democracy, we’re a “constitutional republic”! Yeah, ok kemosabe – lol. That’s why Z is often saying we have to create a new moral framework/paradigm better than the garbage were inundated with daily – maybe just more reality based? I don’t know if it even has to be all that new. It seems like even a 100 years ago, despite the usual charlatans and other assorted fanatics, people in general just saw things as they were, rather than wishing upon stars, and perhaps less susceptible to claims to the contrary. Although incrementally that changed, as here we are. It would seem that vigilance as to the new fanatics whispering/clamoring is important in order to quash or dispute the ideas would be paramount – although, if that’s necessary, maybe those ideas aren’t all that great after all – I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the natural evolution of the human condition and nothing can change it until it collapses and something new comes along.
Compsci #381241 December 12, 2023 10:50 am 0
“It seems like even a 100 years ago, despite the usual charlatans and other assorted fanatics, people in general just saw things as they were,…” As previously mentioned, one requirement for a functioning democracy is that the people are of one tribe. 100 yo we were a White nation (in the main), so things went along fairly well until we allowed in “diversity”. So the real question is “who is it that allowed diversity through the door”? I leave (((who))) to this group’s imagination. 😉
KGB #381272 December 12, 2023 12:39 pm 0
The people who rule us are explicit about defending “our sacred democracy”. How can anyone pull out the old saw about a constitutional republic at this point? The only people who matter (for now) have defined our form of government as something other than a republic.
My Comment #381216 December 12, 2023 9:18 am 0
Z’s points about belief are why people need a leader whom they will trust to tell them what to believe and do and why that leader will not be allowed to emerge.Even though Orange Man Bad was ineffectual and mostly a fraud, he was a leader not vetted by the true rulers of the country. They could not and still cannot allow such a person to gain power again. Even if he is cooped it says a bad precedent.Conservatives are allowed to have websites owned by the chosen to make sure that the more important thoughts are in line with the masters’ goals and to attack any would be leader who is a threat to the system
pyrrhus #381226 December 12, 2023 10:09 am 0
Our “democracy” has devolved into a straight up racket, where the 1% decide what’s good for them, and rely on their puppet media, pollsters and commentators to sell it…and if it can’t be sold, they do it anyway…Autocracy is about the same as socialism, except that it’s only socialism for a small class of people…Biden wants another 106 billion for proxy wars in remote countries, but nothing for veterans sleeping under bridges or Americans in general…Like socialism, you can vote your way into it, but you have to shoot your way out of it…..
Compsci #381243 December 12, 2023 10:56 am 0
As I’ve said repeatedly in the past, the way to stop this nonsense—wrt war and war funding—is to not put it on the credit card. You want to play Rambo overseas, fine, then levy a surtax upon each and every tax filer (not necessarily payer as many filers don’t pay taxes) to fund the appropriation for the war de jour.
Steve #381313 December 12, 2023 2:56 pm 0
Better yet, get rid of the secret ballot. The parties all put together a budget, and when the ballots are counted, everyone voting for the winning faction gets their per-person share of that budget. You vote for the dumb ideas, you pay for them.
heymrguda #381215 December 12, 2023 9:09 am 0
Interesting discussion of that revered institution we call “democracy.” Like most, I’m not sure what the answer is. Some sort of philosopher king or benevolent dictator, as proposed by some, seems to be too close to potential tyranny to be seriously considered. Maybe more local control or direct democracy, like the Swiss cantons, or limiting voting to those not supported by or working for the government, as some have proposed? Consider our out of control spending, now closing in on $34 trillion. It will continue unabated as there’s no checks and balances to stop it.Whatever the solution I think so-called “liberal democracy,” as practiced in the West, ain’t it.
Carrie #381214 December 12, 2023 9:06 am 0
I like this.I also think this is where the terms / use of logic, rhetoric, and dialectic come into play.Vox Day sometimes mentions these concepts, in the context of how”those of us on this side of the Great Divide” (as Z Man would say), with regard to how Leftists in general use rhetoric to fire up their people, (no facts needed, only feelings).I actually think they do a good job. Our people are so logic-oriented that we would do well to practice more feelings-based rhetoric. Myself included.(That is: IF we are clear on an objective about WHY we are using it: to get Normies to join us at a local meatspace event where those of our kind will also attend? Or maybe to simply shut up the annoying Leftist family member who believes he is always correct?)But alas, my comment and discussion of this idea is NOT a new one. And all the same points will probably come up (valid ones, to be sure).But if anyone wants to share their understanding of dialectic, (as it relates also to logic & rhetoric) I’d be curious to read your thoughts!
Curious Monkey #381249 December 12, 2023 11:23 am 0
This is not an easy mesh to untangle. It is true you need rhetorical fire to motivate people. Usually the idea is to use human passions to manipulate people into what you want them to do. Action follows passion: I only noticed this as an adult in a Terminator 2 rewatch. Terminator is trying to convince the kid not to go back and rescue his mother (passion is hard to control), later the kid becomes angry at something I don’t remember and this could be used to make him a good warrior so Terminator tells him his anger is good and to keep it as this can be useful.This is almost a universal tactic. I remember being a devout Catholic and we also understood the power of propaganda and cultural products. At some point I wanted to become a novelist to write stories that manipulated people into Catholic beliefs. If you read Dickens young enough you will experience that power, his writing pretty much makes you care about the downtrodden and consider them almost saints. What literature was in the previous centuries now is Netflix and Max.BUT … I need to say this is for the sheep, we can use good rhetoric and stories to guide the weak minded. But at the end you need a deeper foundation if you are not going to be manipulated yourself or you want people to conserve the good. Lazy rhetorical fire can be undone by another one in the opposite camp.One thing you will enjoy after some time in the dissident camp is that you’ll discover that you have confidence talking about your ideas even when you have to stand for things you know they have been trained to despise.Being spergy I fell into the logic as authority fallacy for a few years but I was cured by the bigot army I found online. The thing is logic is the ultimate blind believer as you cannot argue with a well constructed argument based on false propositions. Ultimately you will need to become ultra skeptical and check every proposition and every step. Pretending to be logic blinds you to how emotionally manipulated you are, I was a shitlib for many years and so I defended plenty of half assed arguments for open borders and other bad policies.But as much as I would like to have storytelling skills to be a propagandist at the end I don’t think this is the best life to have. I am more a shire fan and would love to have family and community among sensible people.Being a fanatic of Catholicism and Atheism in the past I can say I am now post dialectical. TBH I think this was a struck of fortune as many people who only have experience one side have trouble understanding the other side and suffer a lot with the obnoxious confidence believers of not your religion have.I am now an Agnostic-Catholic. I believe the old Catholic way of family and community is good, but I saw also the bad side of the power abuse and ridiculous virtue signaling that also happens there (not only the woke have fake virtue, I see it also in faith and in the right, I have seen plenty of pick me girls of all sides).There is an English discussion about education being an education of the moral senses. This is the way. You need to tell kids: this is what we believe because it has done good for us in the past and you can check it with your own senses. But at the end there is no logical or metaphysical proof so there is an option for you to try the school of hard knocks and getting burned. Maybe add some historical context and videos of the late XX century-early XXI to the mix. But at the end there is no persuasion that is enough so some would have to get burned to learn fire is danger.
Zulu Juliet #381264 December 12, 2023 12:09 pm 0
I went to a town meeting to convince the town councilors to put a ‘grandfather clause’ in a recently enacted town ordinance. I argued about the logic of it and was met with skepticism.My wife stood up and appealed to them from emotions, and easily carried the day. I listened to her jive and just knew she would have them eating out of her hands. It was all touchy-feely goo-goo, but they lapped it up.
DYSPEPSIA GENERATION Blog Archive Belief and Democracy #381213 December 12, 2023 8:45 am 0
[…] Zman does a deep dive. […]


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