Thinking About Athens

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A little change of pace this week as the news is mostly made up nonsense about the war on Russia and, of course, stories about Trump. The obsession with Trump moved past whatever lies beyond absurd years ago. Even if you get the symbolism of Trump to the managerial elite, their obsessing over him is exhausting. It is as if they want to talk about him to the point where his fans are sick of the subject.

Scan the millions of posts about Trump in the regime media each week and it is like watching a man deliberately slip on a banana peel. His attempt to entertain the audience just creates a sense of shame. You are embarrassed for him. That is the same feeling I get when I read a New York Times piece about Trump. How humiliating and degrading it must be to write those posts.

The Finns have a word for this, myötähäpeä, which roughly translates into secondhand shame or shared embarrassment. Fremdschämen is the German version of it, which means the feeling you get when seeing someone do something so embarrassing that you start to feel shame by watching it. English does not have a corresponding word, which is odd given the history of the English language.

If there is no word for it, then it does not exist, at least in the mental landscape of the people who speak the language. Perhaps if the English language did have a word for this sensation, we would have fewer people willing to degrade themselves in public just to get a little attention. On the other hand, maybe the Germans have so many of these people they needed a word for it.

Regardless, you have to wonder if by 2024 people will have tired of the endless drama that surrounds Trump. On the other hand, the elite obsession with him may turn the man into a martyr. To his credit, he is still putting his chin out daring them to take their best swing at him. Like every decision to fire on a crowd of protestors, the eventual arrest of Trump just feels like it is inevitable.

Anyway, the topic this week is about the dynamics that exists within a debating society committed to consensus. This is a topic that will be visited in a different context in the Monday Taki post. The jumping off point for the discussion is how debate must have worked within Athenian society. We get to pretend we are wearing our togas and debating the issues of the day with the ancients.

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This Week’s Show

Contents

  • Changing Gears
  • Life In Athens
  • Being In The Debate
  • Getting Attention
  • Slapping Ginger Midgets
  • Making Moral Claims
  • Consensus
  • Dissidents
  • Repressive Tolerance

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

174 Comments

Anson Rhodes #321914 September 25, 2022 8:59 pm 0
Taki post:There is a third option in democracy, the correct one, the intended one, that everyone has currently lost sight of – the enormity and fundamentality of which cannot be overstated. I have said it several times on here: Opposites must be allowed to oppose.It’s a principle of nature. To suppress one side is unnatural and therefore unsustainable. Such a system cannot survive more than (my guess) a century. In the meantime it will get worse unless our side go on television every night saying:Opposites must be allowed to oppose.Opposites must be allowed to oppose.Opposites must be allowed to oppose.…They will need to hear it (I guess) about 77 times before it even sticks in their mind. I haven’t yet heard anybody say it.
The Greek #321916 September 26, 2022 5:29 am 0
That would not fix anything. The problem is systemic in democracy. You really need to listen to this week’s podcast. It’s entirely on this subject.
Tamarack #321918 September 26, 2022 7:29 am 0
You haven’t heard anyone say it because it is terrible, unworkable advice delivered condescendingly by someone who missed the entire point of the original article… or is pretending to. ( cue The X-files theme Hava Nagila mashup )
LineInTheSand #321931 September 26, 2022 8:42 am 0
You sound like a college student who just smoked pot for the first time. You think that you are profound and you’re quite impressed with yourself, while everyone else is just laughing and rolling their eyes.
LineInTheSand #321899 September 25, 2022 10:46 am 0
Flagrantly off topic: Does anyone have any ideas about why Lindsey Graham is pushing a national abortion bill that is too extreme for even most Republicans? https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/16/lindsey-graham-abortion-ban-bill-splits-gop-on-midterm-message.html We often say that Republicans are paid to lose by traitorous donors. Following that narrative, his legislation seems designed to dispell that red wave that the Democrats and media were worried about. Is there another explanation for his legislation? Graham is so moderate on most issues (except Israel) that I find it unbelievable that he cares that much about abortion.
thezman #321900 September 25, 2022 10:51 am 0
Yep. Not only that, the donor class has secretly been underwriting wackos in GOP primaries so the media has easy targets. It is how the uniparty operates.
The Kaigat Of Wands #321902 September 25, 2022 12:43 pm 0
He never introduces legislation with any expectation that it might actually go somewhere. He does it to look busy. This one is just a nod to his voters, who appear willing to keep electing him even though he stands for nothing. Of course, speaking as a SC resident, there is something to be said for having him up there in DC and out of our way.
LineInTheSand #321904 September 25, 2022 1:54 pm 0
Of all the snakes in DC, I have a particular dislike for Graham, due to his enthusiasm for amnesty. I’ve often wondered why he keeps getting reelected. As an SC resident, how representative of SC Republicans is Graham? Is he liked? I always guessed that SC people kept voting for him because he is high up in the Republican leadership and that allows him to confer benefits on his constituents. Any thoughts?
The Kaigat Of Wands #321906 September 25, 2022 2:07 pm 0
Pork certainly plays a part. Beyond that, SC is a small state and its politics are easier to control for that reason. I think in many ways he’s not so much the Republican candidate as the Uniparty candidate, the Democrats have never fielded a half-way believable challenger and he’s never had serous primary opponents – so my assumption is that no-one wants to rock the boat. Things are pretty good down here, relatively speaking, so the grillers seem content to….. grill……..
trumpton #321903 September 25, 2022 1:26 pm 0
humiliating his own base and cementing his untouchability by doing so. What are you going to do? vote for the opposition?
The Kaigat Of Wands #321905 September 25, 2022 1:57 pm 0
I’m not a citizen, so cannot vote. I do think the Republicans are the problem though, not the Democrats (they’re just being themselves). The Republicans have built the Uniparty and whatever chance there might be to get out of all this relatively peacefully requires them to lose so badly that either they disappear or reform into a real alternative. If I could vote I’d vote Democrat for that reason. I know a lot of people seem positively to lust for apocalypse but it’s hardly a desirable outcome and it’s rather fatalistic just to lie back and wait for it.
Frip #321907 September 25, 2022 2:09 pm 0
I despise him too. He did have that one great moment when he tore into the Democrats during the Cavanaugh / Blassy Ford supreme court fiasco. At 0:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_C7o5INBzw&ab_channel=CBSNews
Tamarack #321913 September 25, 2022 8:14 pm 0
Do you really see a take down in this clip? Because I see a grandstanding, closeted homo playing his part in a theater production. Even Cavanaugh’s ascension to SCOTUS and the subsequent overturning of Roe, was probably already baked in to the cake. All of this is just a distraction to keep the rubes playing along.
Frip #322002 September 26, 2022 12:14 pm 0
It’s all theater? Even Lindsay calling the Cavanaugh hearings a charade, is a charade? Man. That’s deep.
Anonymous Fake #321915 September 26, 2022 12:15 am 0
Strong abortion bans highly motivate the Republican base, and don’t offend RINOs too much to change their votes, and feminists aren’t ever going to vote Republican anyway. I suspect the abortion issue is being used as a cover for massive voter fraud, but this wouldn’t work at all if there were sufficient election supervision and monitoring from the Republican base. Lots of motivated Christians are available. The “rape babies aren’t really babies” types are our enemies on every other issue too.
Mr. Aka #321889 September 24, 2022 10:47 pm 0
I’ve got a question for all you opinionated folks. Been thinking about it for a while. I’ve got a nephew. He is a good kid. Keep in mind he’s not my son, I’m just an uncle. His parents are shitlibs. Not the worst kind: they take him to church more weeks than not and not they have some understanding that (for example) Mitt Romney represents us” and the Democrats are “them.” My question for general audience is as follows. Without being flagrantly manipulative, is there a way for me to steer him toward the good path? I myself was raised in a politically “moderate” family and found my way to the good side only through some very fortunate encounters with right-wing literature. I don’t consider it my right to interfere with someone else’s family but if I can present some factual information and it has an impact, that’s more than fair. For what it’s worth, they’re Californians. All thoughts appreciated.
Apex Predator #321890 September 24, 2022 11:30 pm 0
God help me for saying this, but given his age and that you have a very long hard road— Prager U. Their stuff is geared for lefties and normies especially younger ones so it will be digestible for them. Hopefully by the time the kid comes out the other side he will have Daily Stormer bookmarked instead of Prager U but you gotta start somewhere.
Frip #321908 September 25, 2022 3:08 pm 0
“God help me for saying this, but given his age and that you have a very long hard road— Prager U.” I realize how difficult that was for you to suggest. Being an apex predator and all. I admire the nerves of steel it must have taken to keep your fingers from shaking as you typed that out. Props for the painfully objective angle on the matter.
Compsci #321910 September 25, 2022 3:36 pm 0
Prager U is alright—but it’s not us. We are beyond that. However, most folk are not. We have a continuing discussion here wrt who is and who is not a “gate keeper”. Prager U is certainly gate keeping. However, my opinion is that everyone’s road to “this side of the divide” leads through such “gates”. I could live with Prager U as a recommendation to a novice.
Frip #321911 September 25, 2022 4:06 pm 0
To be clear, I agree. Still a hard pill to swallow. Plus the very sound of the name Prager infuriates me. Rhymes with Gayger.
Frip #321912 September 25, 2022 6:31 pm 0
“I could live with Prager U as a recommendation to a novice.” I agree. Hard thing to recommend, but agree.
The Greek #321917 September 26, 2022 5:40 am 0
Honestly, my road to this side of the divide came by reading the great philosophers that critiqued Democracy. Have him read Plato’s Republic or De Maistre. It’s easier to get someone away from the worshipping of “our Democracy” or “muh constitution.
LineInTheSand #321893 September 25, 2022 9:07 am 0
Most people won’t consider an unpopular idea unless difficulties in their own lives prompt them. My own brother agrees with my views intellectually but has no motivation to adopt them because, “Why would I want to invite trouble into my life? Why would I want to join the losing team?”People are rarely persuaded by facts and reason. They adopt a new idea when it explains difficulties in their lives.From the standpoint of persuasion, it seems like it’s usually more effective if others know your views on these topics and then you wait for them to reach out to you in their own good time.If you feel compelled to broach these issues, I expect that the young man is being told in school and the media that he is evil because he is white and that his punishment is affirmative action in school and the job market. These would be the pain points through which to reach out to him.
Frip #321896 September 25, 2022 10:10 am 0
Take him to Detroit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynY2begPzoM&ab_channel=Beeezelbub
Dinodoxy #321897 September 25, 2022 10:11 am 0
Physical activity. Sports if he’s the least bit interested. Or some other kind of exercise / outdoors. Get him to disconnect from the hive as much as possible. And discover his own strength / masculinity and develop healthy testosterone levels. Doing that is 80% of avoiding the POZ and the rest will develop over time with a little luck.
Hemid #321909 September 25, 2022 3:09 pm 0
My turn away from the mainstream was a reaction to being lied to about things I knew. Literary scholars lied about books I’d read, musicologists lied about compositions I knew, etc. Encourage him to become an actual expert in something that’s commonly misrepresented. Energy, immunology, sex perversions, and Americans (the origins, histories, and present states of its various demographics) are the big ones now.
Ben the Layabout #321879 September 24, 2022 2:00 pm 0
Salon today (09-24): “Far right to followers: don’t vote!” Even our enemies have picked up one of our slogans. 😁
Paintersforms #321877 September 24, 2022 1:20 pm 0
OT but it’s been on my mind:Feminism is a teenage girl’s diary, and a lot that’s come out of the manosphere or whatever is comparable. I remember reading about something called ‘masculism’ a while back but I guess it didn’t catch on.Here’s the thing: I’ve been on the frat boy spectrum at times, so I’m not dismissing or judging any of that out of hand. Feminism, too. I think these are phases people go through on the way to growing up. And yeah, men need to act stupid and blow off steam sometimes, women need the gossip circle, or whatever, but then you put all that away and get back to business. The problem is that people don’t grow up anymore. No wonder things are falling apart— there aren’t enough adults to keep them going. No wonder men and women don’t get along— they aren’t mature enough for the business of marriage and civ. The gerontocracy shouldn’t be surprising, but the fact even geriatrics don’t seem very serious should be gravely concerning.I do think marriage is the basis of the family, and while I haven’t really thought it through, I suspect then the family is the basis of culture, culture the basis of civilization. You look at age of consent laws, and it’s easy today to think it’s crazy that 14 or 16 year olds could get married, but those laws were written at a time when the average 16 year old was ready to assume adult responsibilities. So anyway, we need to collectively grow up lol. For all the particulars, that’ll be the thing that turns the tide.
The Wild Geese Howard #321872 September 24, 2022 10:46 am 0
Rumors swirling out of China the military has placed Xi under house arrest at the behest of Hu Jintao, here is a source that seems ok, but misses on some key claims: https://youtu.be/rcIENMi65GQ I tried checking their claims of a gas pipeline cut and 6k flight cancelations in Beijing, came up empty on both. The Indian news bureaus have also been picking up on these rumors, but they have a clear bias and vested interest in doing so. Personally, if this means the end of the, “Zero Covid,” BS, then I’m all for it.
thezman #321875 September 24, 2022 12:25 pm 0
The Chinese Party Congress is in three weeks. Lots of weirdness around these things for some reason. Xi is also up for an unprecedented third term, so he may be rounding up opponents. It would be very bad for the West is Xi was deposed. It is unlikely that he would be deposed for being too hard on the West or too hard on Taiwan.
Compsci #321883 September 24, 2022 4:34 pm 0
Perhaps. But that Xi managed to get approval for his extended presidency a few years back is also not a good thing. Perhaps the Party is having second thoughts about having a president for life position. If they don’t stop the precedent, as in no third “term”, it may be too late.
The Greek #321868 September 24, 2022 8:12 am 0
So I think there’s another important factor to note about Athenian democracy and it’s fight against Sparta. Many (myself included), believe the most accurate general description of left and right are those that believe in egalitarianism and those that believe in natural hierarchies. The Sparta vs Athens conflict serves as one of our first reference points in this battle. As z has said, todays left sees themselves as correcting the outcome of that war and hunting down every last spartan.However, this is the important thing to note. Even though Athenian democracy was really a Protozoa version of today’s extremist egalitarianism, it STILL had all the issues highlighted in z’s show that remain relevant today. Many on the dissident right have suggested (z included) that if we restrict the vote to properly holders, or households, or those with children, or repeal the 19th amendment, then our problems would be solved. Look at Athens though, and this seems unrealistic. Athens restricted votes to educated male citizens of means (usually property owners). Even still, it came to favor morality over facts. It came to despise dissidents. On top of z’s analysis, Plato famously argued against Athenian democracy as well. His most famous allegory was that of how the doctor telling the crowd that they needed to eat healthy to live a good life would never get elected. Instead it would be the candy shoppe owner that told everyone they could have as many sweets as they wanted. Democracy will always engorge itself in decadence when given the chance until the consequences come and punch you in the face.
tashtego #321901 September 25, 2022 12:31 pm 0
I agree, democracy itself is a particularly self-immolating form of organization. The nation was not felled by the consequences of the 19th amendment, a nation that could institute such an ill considered measure is already fatally flawed. It is turtles of human folly all the way down to a foundation of nature, the warp and weave of which is submission and dominance. Perhaps like the Aztecs, we await some Deus ex Machina moment to arise and replace the current Christocidocracy with some other less openly deranged and degenerate regime. Or perhaps man’s nature is so immutably fallen our ability to make technological progress, especially in the means of destroying each other, serves as the fuse or breaker limiting the depths to which we can morally sink as species.
Ganderson #321867 September 24, 2022 7:26 am 0
What’s the closing music?
thezman #321869 September 24, 2022 8:39 am 0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmcU7LtqFc
Ganderson #321874 September 24, 2022 12:08 pm 0
Tack så mycket!
Whiskey #321864 September 23, 2022 11:00 pm 0
The guys from South Park are not our guys, but they have one thing nailed right on: the desire by Authorities to be feared. “Respec mah authoritah!” like Cartman in his big wheel, they demand you fear them and they are determined to rule by fear and terror even when they could rule by cheaper bribery and subterfuge.They get off on it, and that has been the ruling class disease from the start. The various tyrants of Athens and Rome enjoyed humiliating and degrading people even when it was very prudent not to do so (particularly the aristocracy); and so did various Renaissance rulers who Machiavelli cautioned. It seems everyone from the highest fake figurehead to the lowest intern at the local newsroom wants to be feared and is determined to provoke things to be feared. Its why our rulers like those of Athens and Rome talk endlessly of doing awful things to us constantly. While wanting/needing us for various wars. Too long a peace can be a disease too — neither Athens nor Rome were well served by it and when War came they had no internal resources rallied for it; indeed they had hollowed out their society for transient political gain when the larger threat loomed well and foreboding. What does a ruling class profit when they too are overthrown with their people their natural enemy?
Ploppy #321871 September 24, 2022 10:25 am 0
It’s more a desire of illegitimate authorities. People who rise to leadership naturally and who are popular don’t seem to have the same obsession with asserting their authority and making sure everyone knows their place.You see this all the time in workplaces when they put a woman or a weak man in charge. These people as bosses are unnatural and they always feel insecure in their position or that the men don’t truly respect their authority. So naturally the boss becomes a tyrant, screaming at everyone, writing people up at every opportunity, trying to pit all the workers against one another, etc. Very little actual work ends up getting done because the boss is fixated on cementing her power.
Falcone #321892 September 25, 2022 6:11 am 0
Same thing with short cops They aren’t natural leaders / command respect and are always nervous with itchy trigger fingers They’re the ones we hear about shooting up old homeless ladies who flash a broken bottle at them from fifteen feet away We need to get back to minimum height and strength requirements for the police. But the culture probably too far gone for any such corrective remedies. And what strong guy with a commanding presence would ever want to be a cop nowadays. Oh well, maybe small towns or sheriffs can follow this program.
imnobody00 #321863 September 23, 2022 10:12 pm 0
English does not have a corresponding word, which is odd given the history of the English language” It is odd. In Spanish, it is “vergüenza ajena”. Something like “embarrassment that it is not your own”
Strike Three #321876 September 24, 2022 12:39 pm 0
Vicarious cringe? It’s why I can’t watch The Office.
Frip #321885 September 24, 2022 5:04 pm 0
Z: “The Finns have a word for this, myötähäpeä, which roughly translates into secondhand shame or shared embarrassment. Fremdschämen is the German version of it…” Imnobody: “It is odd. In Spanish, it is “vergüenza ajena”. Something like “embarrassment that it is not your own” Strike Three: “Vicarious cringe?” Z has mentioned this many times over the years. And many times I’ve responded that the English word is “cringe”. And not “vicarious cringe” either. Just freaking “cringe”. What the heck? It’s been one of the most used and overused words in English for at least the last 15 years.
Strike Three #321888 September 24, 2022 7:01 pm 0
I dunno, true cringe only occurs when I’m actually stuck in the midst of a cringy situation. Since I’m watching t.v. characters in a contrived scene doing embarrassing things, I thought “vicarious” was a possible choice. Maybe I should’ve said “second hand” cringe? If I had known you would fly into a homicidal rage over my post I would’ve thought twice before writing it. Cheers! I hope the blood pressure has returned to normal.
Frip #321895 September 25, 2022 10:08 am 0
“characters in a contrived scene doing embarrassing things.” It’s called a sitcom. So, you stand up in the middle of a musical or play and yell at the actors on stage “FAKE! FAKE! FAKE!” ?
Paintersforms #321859 September 23, 2022 8:41 pm 0
Public life is fake, gay, and if taken to the democratic extreme, totalitarian. In 2022 it sure looks like old-school monarchy yielded more individual liberty than this popular rule thing. Politics is a prison, but the average person wanted a piece of that action— I guess? It’s a lot to chew on.
Ruslan #321854 September 23, 2022 7:21 pm 0
AmeriKwa’s turned into a full-blown “dilapidated gay multi-kulti/woke disco in an abandoned shopping mall in the middle of a former nuclear-testing ground.”
The Wild Geese Howard #321829 September 23, 2022 4:04 pm 0
Another reason the Cloud People hate Trump so much is that the Russia-Ukraine mess was supposed to be Hillary’s War and he deprived her of that historical legacy.
Bourbon #321843 September 23, 2022 5:36 pm 0
For Hillary to become the Anglosphere’s Catherine the Great, would that require equine bestiality on Hillary’s part? And, if so, would Huma be jealous of the equine? Or jealous of Hillary?
Bourbon #321848 September 23, 2022 6:21 pm 0
The difference of course being in the wielding versus the receiving.
Greatvampire #321828 September 23, 2022 3:44 pm 0
Trump’s a fighter. Especially when he still has supporters, he’s going to feel like it’s a noble cause he’s fighting for. And who knows? Maybe it is. Maybe there is a Deep State and it tangled with him to get rid of a squeaky wheel. A good lawyer may be all that stands between Trump and a shiv in a prison shower room scene.
trumpton #321866 September 24, 2022 3:45 am 0
Blah. Trump helped set up Jan 6 to entrap his own supporters to push the insurrection hysteria and enable the targeting by the FBI/DOJ of americans. There was no other reason for that rally to even exist. You gonna fall for that again? Drain the swamp….
Kitty L #321826 September 23, 2022 3:30 pm 0
Love your history podcasts, thanks Z
PeriheliusLux #321814 September 23, 2022 2:35 pm 0
Great show. Aside from it being interesting and thought provoking for me,That bit at the end about the current regime’s fascination with the Peloponnesian War and its link to Jerusalem is very interesting. I need to learn a lot more about it. It is news to me that Judea has anything to do with that War, and The West before Vespasian cracked skulls and the Jewish diaspora over time built their society within societies in The West.I think another benefit of looking back at Greece is looking at the non-political aspects; particularly art and science. Most of what we need to do is put together our vision for the future. It seems to me to look back at the people who put together the parts of our culture that pushed it higher is well worth it. How they did it is even more important and instructive. At some point things were done and decisions were made that was the seeds for that truly unique and awe inspiring civilization we call The West. That was the cradle of. Similarly, looking at the Germanic roots of what stepped into the vacuum after Rome’s fall might have many other lessons and high meta political value for the rising consciousness of our people.I better get some funds to you so you can pursue that project if you choose. Would be very worthwhile. I vote for it. It seems extraordinarily valuable.
RealityRules #321808 September 23, 2022 1:54 pm 0
In the past few days, in Normie Con world there have been a barrage of articles on how NatCons and ConInc can and must ally to save The Republic. This has been a result of some recent conventions on the topic. This article is interesting:https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-conservatism-and-race-in-america/Note how Mr. Archie’s proposition is to return to color blindness. Uh, conservatives have been touting color blindness for decades. We can play political-speak bingo and guarantee a conservative to say, “MLK said we should judge based on … …” MLK has effectively surplanted Lincoln as the figurehead of conservatism without any of Jaffa’s high minded academic arguments. This author offers no proposal of substance in the face of a legal regime that is decidedly not colorblind.He doesn’t call for abolishing the regime that legally privileges, as it was designed to, black people in America: abolishing affirmative action; the return of freedom of association and the end of Civil Rights laws; the end of the welfare state and the perpetual poverty pimping Democrat political machine in America’s urban centers that is entirely centered around, “centering”, black people; paying economic restitution to non-blacks who have provably been denied opportunity because of black’s legal privileges and affirmative action. That can come out of the pockets of the individuals and foundations that promoted and enforce affirmative action. Unlike with slavery, someone is owed, and we can know who owes who.Notice this guy is calling for color blindness as a strategy, but he proposes nothing substantive. Let us hope that this guy’s cry for color blindness is a desperate plea from someone who fears the long dormant racial consciousness that is growing daily in our people because of anti-white, identity politics. For our purposes, at this hour, we need to demand the abolishment of the legal regime I outlined above. If it isn’t in the platform, then we don’t vote for you. Chasing CRT out isn’t a platform issue. It is a local politics issue that parents and employees are responsible for addressing. A national platform issue is ending the legal regime that is weaponized against us. There is no deal without that on the table.Those are reasonable steps and demands that will expose any whose calls for a color blind society lack the substance of abolishing anti-white and pro-POC (blacks above all), legal discrimination and expropriation. Achieving that agenda, are the steps toward peaceful separation.I write this here, because it is clear a NatCon/ConInc. marriage is in the works. Should it happen we can’t allow .7% percent of, “conservatives”, to hijack any semblance of political change that might favor our cause. That would be more tragic than the hijacking of our nation by the 13% that happened 60 years ago. No more bending the knee, no matter what party the legally privileged folk (LPFs), are registered for.Thanks for letting me get that off my chest and into the community here ZMan. Cheers!
Ploppy #321806 September 23, 2022 12:53 pm 0
To be fair Diogenes had a bit of public masturbation habit that may have detracted from his rhetorical prowess.
Tars Tarkas #321805 September 23, 2022 12:49 pm 0
You’re right that you should do more shows like this. The news ones are interesting if you’re listening the day after you made it. If you’re watching it 5 years later, it’s like reading a newspaper from 5 years ago. Interesting only to the extent of how much cheaper prices are in the ads and how much less hysterical the stories are. Whereas this episode and others like it will be just as valid and fresh in 5 years as it is today.
Bourbon #321816 September 23, 2022 2:41 pm 0
“If you’re watching it 5 years later, it’s like reading a newspaper from 5 years ago. Interesting only to the extent of how much cheaper prices are in the ads and how much less hysterical the stories are.”I noticed that the other day, when I stumbled upon an essay which AA had published, on April 16, 2014, concerning the “the Beauty of the White Ary@n Woman” [which must not perish, etc].Fast forward to 2022, and AA is now of the opinion that all White women are back-stabbing miscegenating cult-of-moloch witches.He wrote an epic masterpiece on September 3rd [“All Women are *****s: Gisele has Left Tom Brady”], which is arguably the finest essay he’s ever written, and he’s followed it up with a number of sizzling hot critiques of the [once] fair sex.It’s difficult to overemphasize the extent to which the iPhone and social media have laid waste to, well, pretty much everything in the last fifteen years.At this point, I’m not sure I could name any aspect of our society which isn’t just another smouldering ruin.All by design.
The Wild Geese Howard #321830 September 23, 2022 4:15 pm 0
White women have been relentlessly propagandized to detest their kindred males.
Bourbon #321836 September 23, 2022 4:41 pm 0
“White women have been relentlessly propagandized to detest their kindred males.” Yep. All by design. [Insert meme of merchant rubbing hands…] What shocked me, though, was that as recently as eight years ago, AA was still writing in DEFENSE of the White woman. His thinking has undergone a radical transformation since then.
Apex Predator #321838 September 23, 2022 4:48 pm 0
Yo bro,Where else you hanging and haunting these days?Speaking of blasts from the past I was just reminiscing about how very much I miss the heyday of Chateau Heartiste. That was some serious ‘lightning in a jar’ that will never be recaptured because the interwebz have just changed too much. There are some other refugees from there here besides myself too I know for sure.Some of the most profound, insightful, and genuinely laugh out loud funny stuff was made there over the course of several years. Few sites come close. I like Z’s forum for the bantz too and its much more erudite. But that place had a serious Wild West feel with legions of supreme sh-tlords just taking all the various Sacred Cows™ out behind the woodshed and beating the f–king brakes off of them repeatedly and in hilarious fashion. 🙂
Tars Tarkas #321860 September 23, 2022 9:08 pm 0
Heartiste was awesome. isn’t he still over on Gab under the name king of the nads or something like that? He used to have a “heartiste” account on Gab, but it’s either gone or isn’t used anymore.
Steve W #321841 September 23, 2022 5:31 pm 0
Agree, it is all by design. But the enemy cannot see our resourcefulness. There is always something we can do that they can’t anticipate. There’s gardening, bird-watching, coin collecting, cheese-making, woodworking, knitting, playing the banjo, mastering a language, building boats, memorizing arcane knowledge, etc. We can go on doing what our people have done forever, creating in good times, preserving in bad times. We can’t do anything about politics, which are now entirely court politics, severed from us. Our job is to stay human, which is to say sane, aware of our roots, and fundamentally decent.
Subudai #321822 September 23, 2022 3:23 pm 0
I agree. Z’s news shows are great, but they have a rather short shelf life as you have pointed out. I rather miss his old episodes, which tackled big ideas and history as much as they dealt with current events. The formatting was also great, very similar to Derb’s show.It’s also been a while since Z has treated us with a Xirl Science segment. Those were amazing.
Bourbon #321839 September 23, 2022 4:55 pm 0
Subudai: “I rather miss his old episodes, which tackled big ideas and history as much as they dealt with current events.”I don’t mean to sound hysterical, but I’d guess that there’s easily a 50/50 chance that we, right now, are in the process of witnessing epic historical events as they unfold [in real time].This news of worst case scenarios concerning the V@xxines, and talk of Russia being lured into going nukular to finish off Ukraine, could easily cross an historical threshold which would look something like “Black Death” x “Archduke Ferdinand”.This stuff isn’t one-in-a-million anymore.It’s easily 50/50 now.PS: This is one of the reasons I could never kick my News Junkie habit.My entire adult life, I’ve had this foreboding sensation of a worsening, an impending doom, regarding the trajectory of our culture and society.Just ask yourself: When was the last time you felt the warm-n-fuzzies about our prospects?Reagan’s “Morning in America” re-election campaign?It’s been a long time and an helluva lotta different psychological demoralization campaigns since then.And I am by nature extremely optimistic.
William Corliss #321870 September 24, 2022 9:05 am 0
I have had the same feeling since being a child. I saw some traumatic stuff as a kid, and I had to think about harsh things at an age when I was supposed to be dwelling in comic book/superhero land.Some people sense risk and danger before others, because they were forced — by nature — to actualize that potential long before we were ready to handle it. It changes one’s psychological makeup permanently. Might be from birth, might be by accident, but once your relationship to the world is mediated through this exact lens, it really does separate you from others. The fact is, the pack can’t live that way; it would die off from anxiety and fear.There’s nothing we can do about this. As I say, I feel the same way. It’s made functioning with other people on a daily basis much more difficult over the past two years. I can’t get past one or two topics with them, and they grow extremely angry and impatient with anything beyond the mere incidental or trivial.I don’t recognize the world any longer, and I’m not particularly old. It’s quite sad.
Bourbon #321881 September 24, 2022 2:29 pm 0
William Corliss, muh Bro, I didn’t there were other people in the world like us. Until just now. Muh Bro.
Tars Tarkas #321802 September 23, 2022 12:21 pm 0
Free and open debate in modern America is an absolute farce, as is any idea of a “consensus.” It’s also an open farce. If society operated by “consensus,” they wouldn’t be doing the tranny kid stuff. 90% of people are absolutely repulsed by it. Hell, even the gay stuff is nowhere near a majority consensus.Of course, it’s a farce on another level too. We train up people from the time they are small children who can barely speak to buy into every evil of the empire. They are teaching small White children they are inherently inferior to other non-white kids. We’re teaching them to ignore what is plainly in front of them in the form of trannies.By the time a kid a graduates even high school, they are completely incapable of thinking. It always amazes me how much of what passes for “public debate” is nothing more than sophistry/propaganda and how so many people fall for it.Anyone who can view the modern propaganda state and think they are trying to create a consensus is blind. We have the illusion of consensus because all the members of the class that gets on TV or writes in newspapers all mouth/write the same stuff. To the extent there is any “debate” whatsoever, the allowable debate is artificially constrained. You’re not allowed to take the position, LGBT should be happy in they”re not in concentration camps or being thrown off rooftops.We actually live in a world where the “elite” are trying to push the idea that normal people can be a “pedophobe” That if you oppose people who want to be sexually gratified by children, there is something wrong with you and that you are an immoral monster. This is not “consensus” building, it’s tyranny.
Carl B. #321817 September 23, 2022 2:42 pm 0
It’s far worse than tyranny. It’s demonic.
Bourbon #321832 September 23, 2022 4:25 pm 0
VD and KD [Day and Denninger] are now having an interesting tete-a-tete regarding the extent of the demonic aspect. Denninger’s retort to Day was surprisingly nuanced [when it wasn’t being cryptic].
Tars Tarkas #321861 September 23, 2022 9:25 pm 0
As a reformed atheist myself, I believe demonic/satanic is the only explanation. It doesn’t matter if Satan/demons actually exists or not anyway. If you act as if Satan exists and you worship him as if he was real, that’s more than enough to do evil.While much of what they are doing can be explained with rationality, much of what they do cannot.The refusal to see evil is one of the key problem with atheism. I wouldn’t even say I’m a “believer,” it’s a lot to swallow for a former atheist. But I have ZERO problem believing in evil. Whether it is satanic or demonic or just sick minds, either way, the result is the same.You can tie yourself into a pretzel trying to figure out the motives of evil things being done if you insist the evildoer is a rational mind motivated by normal human emotions.I say, keep it simple, stupid. Like when it comes to them, they hate you and want you dead. Nice and simple and no attempts at re-framing their genocidal hatred as some rational thing I just don’t grasp.
Ploppy #321873 September 24, 2022 11:01 am 0
Frankly they are rational. If Joe Biden was a moral person, the most he could ever achieve honestly would be running a Burger King. Corruption and immorality gives him a much more prosperous career in politics. He’s just rational on the premise of maximizing his own wealth and power, while us silly good people try to operate on the premise of maximizing the same things while maintaining our status as good people.
Bourbon #321880 September 24, 2022 2:25 pm 0
Ploppy: “He’s just rational on the premise of maximizing his own wealth and power…”There I strongly strongly disagree.Biden’s obsession with tweaking the nipples of pre-pubescent girls isn’t “rational”, it’s SADISTIC.There is something dark and wicked deep inside of Joe Biden [which is why his first wife attempted to kill the entire family, in order to protect her children from molestation by their satanic father], and the folks who choose the winners in Sodom & Gomorrah on the Potomac noticed that wickedness in L’il Joey, together with his ability to fool most folks via his Saint Paddy the Drunken Leprechaun bu11sh!t routines, plus his utter fluency in psychopathic mendacity, and chose him to have precisely the career which he has experienced to date.All of the actors and actresses you see in Washington DC were chosen to play precisely the roles which they are playing.Nothing is left to chance.
Glenfilthie #321796 September 23, 2022 11:28 am 0
I am sick of the Trump derangement crowd too. Now the Putler derangement crowd are getting old too. Although I don’t worry about Owning The Libs anymore… boy – it was sure good to see that British chick take Don Lemon into the boards when he spoke of giving the wealth of all those white royals to deserving black people.Fags like Ben Shapiro aren’t fit to shine her shoes! Watching that noggered butt blaster vapour lock was the treat of my political week!Great poast, Z. I sit around these days and wonder what planet I’m on and how I got here – and who I am going to have to kill to get off it. I guess I know now how we got here… the question now is… where are we going?
Sand Wasp #321790 September 23, 2022 11:17 am 0
“ Regardless, you have to wonder if by 2024 people will have tired of the endless drama that surrounds Trump. On the other hand, the elite obsession with him may turn the man into a martyr.” I am starting to hear talk from the left that DeSantis may be in legal trouble for his Martha’s Vinyard trick. There is now a possibility he could get arrested on human trafficking charges if the left wants to go down that route. This could get interesting if the 2024 election approaches and both Trump and DeSantis are behind bars.
Jack Dobson #321798 September 23, 2022 11:35 am 0
This happened in Michigan in the governor’s race, as I understand it. The State took out the two top opponents to the incumbent.
Hemid #321820 September 23, 2022 3:09 pm 0
They removed the top three (five in total), two by disqualifying thousands of signatures on their ballot petitions, and the top one by having the feds raid him for standing near the holy temple of Our Democracy on Jan 6. The MI Republican party had no problem with any of this.
Bourbon #321834 September 23, 2022 4:36 pm 0
Hemid: “The MI Republican party had no problem with any of this.”That’s the Passive Aggressive Industrial Complex for ya’.The Professional GOP simply does not see the DEMs as its enemy.Instead, the Professional GOP sees Dirt People salt-of-the-earth ackshual conservative upstarts as their enemy.And to the extent that the Dirt People have been kicking the posteriors of the Professional GOP in the 2022 primaries, the Passive Aggressives are correct in their assessment.Everything now is meta-psychological in nature; there are no more values [in the classical sense of the term], and what remains consists of the genes for differing personality types engaging in abstract sociological warfare with one another.This is how empires crumble and vanish into ruins to be studied by future archaeologists; Passive Aggressives parasitically sucking the life blood out of a civilization.
trumpton #321891 September 25, 2022 3:25 am 0
And people still think they live in a democracy where they get to select candidates. Its pathetic.
Pickle Rick #321809 September 23, 2022 1:55 pm 0
The difference is, the Bad Orange Man is a private citizen, whereas DeSantis is the governor of a whole state, with a state police and Guard.He has formal, legal, executive power over a lot of very real firepower. And DeSantis knows quite well that he would be #2 on the Gaystapo’s list of enemies, so I have to think that he has thought about the consequences of his Martha’s Vineyard stunt and prepared for them.
Compsci #321823 September 23, 2022 3:25 pm 0
What I heard was that each and every transported IA signed a consent form and DeSantis has these in hand as a defense. Of course, that’s no “defense” in a lawless environment such as we live in. In any event, it still seems to me like a no lose situation for us (DR). Go ahead Biden…send your poz’d FBI goons to arrest a sitting Gov of a large Red State. That will go over well with the citizens of the country.
Bilejones #321844 September 23, 2022 5:47 pm 0
Barnes reckons that DeSantis has signed disclosure docs that they were going to MA. NYC has been running a ship them out program for several years.
DYSPEPSIA GENERATION Blog Archive Thinking About Athens #321785 September 23, 2022 11:05 am 0
[…] ZMan’s weekly podcast. Highly recommended. […]
Compsci #321775 September 23, 2022 10:25 am 0
“Even if you get the symbolism of Trump to the managerial elite, their obsessing over him is exhausting.”True, for us and most Trump affectionado’s. For the “other side” this is a no lose situation. As has been said, society can live without a god, but not a devil. Trump is the devil incarnate for the Left. 1) Trump is a rallying cry for their base and perhaps an “evil” that will cause defections of Ind and Rep RINO’s to Leftist candidates. 2) Trump is of course a distraction from the Leftist policies that have sunk the country in less than two short years. 3) Probably most importantly, Trump persecution serves as an object lesson to follow on Rep office holders as to what they can expect should they attempt to “rock the boat”, i.e., there is no place you can hide where we won’t find you and destroy you *and* your family (see zuzhu (“family execution”))
KGB #321807 September 23, 2022 1:02 pm 0
In addition to “family/clan”,zucan also refer to race or ethnic group.Zuzhuhas a synonym,zumie, wheremiemeans “extinguish” or even “exterminate”. I suspect that’s the word our rulers would prefer.
Dennis Roe #321853 September 23, 2022 7:06 pm 0
It’s hebrew theatre, writ large. Wrestlemania, both sides laughing at the stupid fucks paying the entrance fee. Barry’s first lady had a dick. They laugh in your face as they steal your last dollar, destroy your country, history and race. Demons, each and every 1, bought and paid for. No one is coming to save you, you can only save yourself.
Spingerah #321774 September 23, 2022 10:20 am 0
Well boys it’s looking like nuclear combat toe to toe with the ruskies.One second to midnight.I give it 50/50.Russian roulette.If the next few chambers only click.Serious men are going to have to pry power from their cold dead hands. Its the only way.
Compsci #321784 September 23, 2022 11:02 am 0
I don’t see that yet. The nuke option for Russia has always been to protect from invasion—as well as a first strike deterrence. Putin to get support for such “internal” use will need to have committed general army forces first, which he still has not, or at least these new call ups have not been shown to be a failure. However a false flag operation is not beyond the pale from us. It hard for me to see what use tactical nukes are in Ukraine. But hell, I know nothing.
Jack Dobson #321801 September 23, 2022 12:01 pm 0
The predicate has long been laid for a nuclear false flag. Remember all that chatter at the outset about Russian military doctrine allowing for use of nuclear weapons (which nuclear power doesn’t, but, still…)? It seems out of place and superfluous at the time but there was a method to it.
Tars Tarkas #321813 September 23, 2022 2:12 pm 0
I’m not saying Russia is going to use nuclear weapons, but I think you are confusing strategic nuclear weapons with tactical nuclear weapons. It is strategic nukes that are for protection from invasion or nuclear first strike from us.Why did they create so many tactical nuclear weapons if using them is off the table other than in the event of an invasion?The real problem facing Putin is their tactical nuclear weapons are no better or more effective than ours. There is significant risk that exploding even low yield nukes on the border with Ukraine will harm tens of thousands of Russians in Russia through radioactivity.On the other hand, no military has ever had weapons they simply wouldn’t use. Russia is facing the combined military power of NATO.As long as we keep helping them, the Russians are going to have to do something about it or they are going to lose. I’m thinking taking out the satellites. After all, if NATO is blind, it will limit how much real time information it can give the Ukrainians.
Compsci #321821 September 23, 2022 3:16 pm 0
I’m not aware of Russia bragging about tactical nukes, although I don’t doubt they have small yield weapons—as do we. I don’t remember either Russia or the USA have specifically threatened each other per se with such tactical weapons. (Perhaps our understanding of tactical differs?)To my knowledge, the threat has always been the destruction of major US and Russian cities if first strike or invasion. This may be simple BS or wishful thinking and if the two big powers meet toe to toe, the weapons may very well be used on the battlefield.I myself don’t see how these are useful even on the battlefield. If I recall, the normal yield of the “conventional” MOAB is about equivalent to a smallish nuke like the original “Davy Crockett”, but we’ve not seen even the MOAB used—just talk.Of course, tactical nukes might handle largish military installations, bases, and airfields and such. Not sure of the fallout problem, much depends on their use—ground or air explosion. One could imagine however, that Russia with all the largish bases in their country, while NATO bases lie outside the conflict area, would be hard put for a tit for tat without going into the West.My assumption is that the first use of a nuke opens the door to normalized use. From there, it expands. Hopefully, the world puts a stop to such escalation.
NoOneAtAll #321824 September 23, 2022 3:27 pm 0
“Russia is facing the combined military power of NATO.”Sounds pretty scary! Do they have any tactical goat herding mountain villagers to help them like the last guys that won did?We’re talking about the iron resolve of NATO here, the most diverse, and therefore strong, military on earth. We have the best supply lines to keep our combat soldiers outfitted with dialators anywhere on the globe. Our pregnant combat aviators have the most advanced flight suits money can buy. We are willing to bear any price as a country to defeat some guys in their ruthless invasion of a country we just learned existed. So long as gas doesnt go about $5 a gallon and the new marvel movie comes out on time. Our national coffers overflow with treasure and our captains of industry turn the wheels of our mighty manufacturing capacity day and night, except on Juneteenth.Can Russia (or anyone really!) face down this mighty imperium at the very peak of its civilizational influence and prosperity?
Tars Tarkas #321862 September 23, 2022 9:35 pm 0
NATO has a lot of impressive hardware. They have made the Russian air-force extremely ineffective. They managed to sneak 40k troops into an area just outside Russian held territory without the Russians even knowing it.I am in no way a Ukraine cheerleader. I consider myself largely neutral. I’m just going by what is being reported by people who seem to be neutral or even Russia leaning, like Scott Ritter and the Military and Foreign Affairs Network youtube channel (recommended by our gracious host here)YES, all of NATO’s militaries are infiltrated with SJW stuff like you hilariously pointed out. But they still have a lot of impressive hardware and a lot of straight white males running things.
The Wild Geese Howard #321789 September 23, 2022 11:16 am 0
I’m thinking we might see a chemical attack from Russia. The collective West media would go apoplectic they might all die from aneurysms.
Anonymous #321825 September 23, 2022 3:30 pm 0
Common misconception. Really zelensky just has lice and is at risk of spreading typhus to anyone else that uses his contaminated penis piano. I mean the guy hasnt changed his shirt in almost a year now. Is it any wonder?
Bilejones #321845 September 23, 2022 5:51 pm 0
You’ve been listening to the Kagan family instead of bothering to find out what Putin actually said.
AnotherAnon #321765 September 23, 2022 9:34 am 0
Was thinking of a couple of Zman themes earlier this week which are the steady loss of national IQ, how schools turn out people who cannot think and have zero historical awareness, how DIE morons are steadily matriculating into America’s ever-expanding make-work bureaucratic state, and how losing language skills necessarily results in loss of complex thought, function and nuance.How is it possible to maintain institutions when people are no longer able to understand their purpose have no historical memory? We know the answer.Washington’s Farewell Address is maybe the best example of how far we have slipped. Not only is it written in astonishingly complex sentence structure, but the ideas are completely based on a deep understanding of human nature and history.
Eloi #321767 September 23, 2022 9:45 am 0
In response to your question on institutions, the institutions’ purposes become twisted, and their power is used in a manner against the spirit of its inception.
Good ol Rebel #321810 September 23, 2022 2:03 pm 0
Ayn Rand/Alyssa Rosenbaum’s “Los Comprachicos” essay is particularly salient. The point of government daycare is to destroy the minds of their “pupils.”Homeschool or die.
AnotherAnon #321884 September 24, 2022 4:55 pm 0
Indeed, Eloi! As Washington explicitly warned. Especially in the passage about how a two party system ultimately devolves into a cry for dictator after pulling all the parlor tricks to manufacture a majority (or manufacture a concensus as Zman put it today).
Chet Rollins #321771 September 23, 2022 10:09 am 0
The left has figured out that you win a debate not be good rhetoric, facts, and a clear mind, but by changing the rules to the extent that they always win. The college debate circuit, while you might laugh at the absurdity, is not too far behind what is allowed talking about in the public sphere.Listen to this and you realize, outside of the ridiculous fast talking, that their incoherent nonsense about colonialsim, white supremacy, etc. is becoming more and more standard in debate in the public sphere.And if a dissident walked into this debate, he would not only lose, but be ejected from debate for not following the rules.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpXQIf9exA
Iron Maiden #321803 September 23, 2022 12:40 pm 0
Wow. Just… wow.
Compsci #321779 September 23, 2022 10:45 am 0
Orwell understood the relationship between language (words) and thought quite well. This is one of the main themes in his novel, 1984. His coining of the term “Newspeak” and his description of such predicts the attempt to change language to control people very well.Odd that such references to Orwell seem to have died down in the last couple of decades while the changing of language by the Left has exploded—indeed has been accepted and internalized. I can only ascribe this to the complete dumbing down of our student population.Does anyone read Orwell anymore? Does anyone read anything from dead “White’ authors? Does anyone read?I first read 1984 in HS. It was a gripping novel for one having grown up in the Cold War era, but the depth of the novel was missed in the main. A fuller understanding came in college however as my education became more rounded. I can only imagine how barren my thought processes would be if at that time Maya Angelou had been required reading instead of a Orwell.
Jack Dobson #321783 September 23, 2022 11:02 am 0
It will be sort of perfect when Orwell gets outright banned or reimagined in such a way that it is sympatico with the new religion. Perhaps Winston will be black and heroic in his effort to prevent racist speech. As to the first part, someone started an Internet hoax a few years back that claimed Amazon no longer would sell 1984 because it was considered “hate speech.” I bought it hook, line and sinker, because why wouldn’t I?
NoOneAtAll #321827 September 23, 2022 3:34 pm 0
Stonetoss (you DO read Stonetoss don’t you?) was complaining just the other day that parody of the regime is becoming impossible for even him. I think it was the canadian she/her shop teacher with the enormous prosthetic breasts that finally pushed him over the edge. [As an aside. It occurs to me that pronouns could easily be weaponized in a way thats hard to censor. Just call any man in a dress “she/her” incessantly. Everyone will get the meaning but its malicious compliance and therefore pretty hard to shut down.]
Jack Dobson #321856 September 23, 2022 7:48 pm 0
Actually I don’t read Stonetoss and will check him out. The transition (heh) from parody to parody-incapable was damned near seamless. It’s been quote a show.
Steve W #321833 September 23, 2022 4:31 pm 0
I read 1984 when I was thirteen. I have probably re-read it or at any rate leafed through it a dozen times since. And yet it still astounds me how prescient he was, that even what I thought most implausible about it – Doublethink, in particular – has been shown in recent times to be an absolute mental fact among our not only the NPCs but among our ruling elite.Our normie friends still rail on about the “hypocrisy” of the Left – as exposed so comically by the residents of Martha’s Vineyard last week – but in fairness to those people, they aren’t being hypocritical at all; they are doublethinkers. Call it mental illness, but it ain’t hypocrisy. Which makes it as dangerous as hell.
Bilejones #321849 September 23, 2022 6:36 pm 0
The prescient one was Aldous Huxley with Brave New World almost 20 years before 1984.
imnobody00 #321865 September 23, 2022 11:12 pm 0
Both of them were prescient. Huxley had the big picture right. Orwell is a prophet on one million details. They sent letters to each other. Two geniuses. Both of them have my admiration and respect and aweTwo giants. I can’t count the number of quotes of them I have repeated to my family, in my classes, etc.
AnotherAnon #321886 September 24, 2022 5:07 pm 0
It’s frustrating how many (most?) people haven’t caught on to the fact that what they perceive as the left’s “hypocrasy” is actually brazen in-your-face power domination. Maybe they figure that as long as we can pretend that it’s “hypocrasy”, we won’t have to lift a finger and it’s all still salvageable… For example, the endless shreiking about Climate Sacrifice celebrities like grubby Greta or Prick Harry bumming a ride on DeCaprio’s jet. It’s as if they’re avoiding the obvious because acknowledging reality means – well – THEN what?
Ben the Layabout #321850 September 23, 2022 6:37 pm 0
Reading intellectual literature, or indeed doing anything highly cognitive, is a probably an iffy thing for high schoolers. Now, I am just a sample size of one. But here goes. I was — slightly — above average in intelligence. Enough to do well on tests and get a small scholarship after high school. Problem: I had chosen to make my last half of high school “high” as in pothead (and alcohol, when it could be located.) This didn’t help my studies, of course, and after one quarter in the AP classes I was back in normal or study halls. Important: I don’t think all the debility can be laid to the drugs. It was, at least in part, lack of motivation. My sloth developed in my teens BEFORE I’d ever touched a drug.Critical point: drugs or not, not everyone is cut out for AP work. Of course it should be provided for those capable (and willing to do the work!) but, I suspect, even among white middle class, those are a minority of the student body.It’d be a VERY RARE teen that can fully appreciate what “1984”, or “Wuthering Heights” or “Julius Caesar” for that matter, really is about. At that age, it’s mostly about sports, smoking pot (optional), drinking beer, driving 120 MPH on the highway, and trying to have sex with men, women, farm animals or a knothole in a stockade fence 😀
Compsci #321887 September 24, 2022 5:17 pm 0
I believe that perhaps in your case “sloth” may be the result of *boredom”. For those who can handle the work, most HS’s—particularly in the public sector—are places that reward mediocrity and spend their time attempting to pull the lower student up, while leaving the best performing students to their own devices. Heck, AP classes in my town are widely derided because they have only Whites and Asians in them. There has been a steady pullback in their offering as the major school districts become all minority.The worse thing you can do to a bright student is to *not* challenge him through hard work and advanced placement. All children are lazy and quickly learn how to “get by” in a unchallenging environment.Drug use is just a symptom of such boredom. For me it was truancy. I could be gone a week and then return and it was as if nothing had happened. Indeed, the worse trouble I got into was once returning to class when I quipped to the teacher, “Hi, I’m back. Did I miss anything?”No excuses being made here, just relating missed opportunities realized in the fullness of time.
Suburban_elk #321898 September 25, 2022 10:38 am 0
What normal teenager, especially of the having a dick variety, wants to be scholarly?? Even Uncle Ted, with his 167 iq, said that it was contra his inclinations (at the young age of teenager), to study math and engineering. He calls having to do that “sublimated power process,” of mastering something for status, instead of what you would rather be doing, which is making decisions that are relevant to your own life rather than to the Borg’s.Complex societies require that commitment, totheirwell being, would be the takeaway. But at some point those complex societies get to having values that are inhuman. We past that point a long time ago.
KGB #321781 September 23, 2022 10:56 am 0
I’m an admirer of Washington but his farewell address includes this passage:In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views.That was wishful thinking. Therewerereal differences of local interests and views that should have been quite clear to all the Founders. We’ve suffered through two and a half centuries of trouble because they couldn’t or wouldn’t recognize those differences.
Compsci #321792 September 23, 2022 11:20 am 0
I’ve not done this (too lazy), but I would venture to say that if you scored the “readability” of the above paragraph from Washington’s speech, you would find it at a level of a college educated person, perhaps even off the scale of today’s measurements—albeit, there are several different scales in use.As I said a few days ago, we are not as our forefathers were of their day. Most folk—if they can even be said to read—do so at an 8th grade (or less) level. Unfortunately for us as a society, George Washington’s address is perhaps no more understandable to them than if written in a foreign language.For those of you in this comment section, think of “Old English” and the reading of Beowulf and you perhaps have an idea of how the general populace would “understand” the above quotation. Sigh.
Ben the Layabout #321852 September 23, 2022 6:44 pm 0
It is amazing how long a sentence an 18th century English writer could create without a period 😀 I’m sure it’s not the only exception, but a few years ago I tried to read some Hume (the philosopher.) I found and relied on a study aid and paraphrase that helped a bit.
Bourbon #321818 September 23, 2022 2:55 pm 0
KGB, that’s just Washington virtue-snivelling his Federalism, rubbing it in the faces of the Dirt People Anti-Federalists [who had demanded the Bill of Rights]. Washington’s arch-enemy was Jefferson, and it was Washington who urged Adams to place John Marshall on the court; Marbury-vs-Madison of course having been the death knell of the still nascent Republic.
JerseyJeffersonian #321857 September 23, 2022 8:25 pm 0
Correct on all points.As to regional differences, and the basis for their existence not being genuine, the Whiskey Rebellion begs to differ. Whiskey served to a large extent as a medium of exchange, a proxy for the currency which was largely not available for the hard-scrabble, hand to mouth folks of the frontier. Washington, and particularly Hamilton, wanted to impose a tax on whiskey, a tax payable in the currency that they did not have. Granted, this was to be applied to the debts that the United States had incurred in the course of the Revolution which Hamilton was keen to discharge reliably (and maybe just maybe to strengthen the money powers back east?). When the resistance to this tax got heated, Washington led the federal army to suppress this revolt, with Hamilton taking charge after he returned to the capitol.Washington had a large distillery himself, and was willing to pay the tax, but then he actually could afford it, unlike the Dirts out west.Marbury v. Madison cemented into place the idea that the incoming administration of Madison should not have the right to install executive branch members of their own choosing. And here was the beginning of the “stay behind” forces in the bureaucracy, as well as the principle that this was somehow unconstitutional in the view of the Federalist majority Supreme Court.Much mischief was to flow from this decision. Only Jackson had the effrontery to buck the Court in the matter of the Cherokee removal.
Steve W #321837 September 23, 2022 4:46 pm 0
I’ll take those two and a half centuries of “suffering” over the alternative – a loose confederation of competing statelets comparable to pre-unification Germany. Wonderful. By all means, we should have had a thirty years’ war and all the bounty that brought… Yes, we have suffered. However, like John Mellancamp said, “Hurts so good”.
KGB #321855 September 23, 2022 7:27 pm 0
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of white men who died in St. Abraham’s War.
jethro #321894 September 25, 2022 9:21 am 0
Thirty Years War was stoked by the French with the strategic objective of reducing the population of German speakers in Europe. France ,for centuries, was aware that though it was the ” la grande nation” Germany if united would outnumber it. The Thirty Years war was their egregious answer to that problem.
Stephen Flemmi #321763 September 23, 2022 9:25 am 0
Speaking of cringe, IRL: North beat Mansfield last Friday night. Mansfield previously had E.coli in the water, now North does!The gods were angry my friends, and cringe alone doesn’t explain this awful attempt at making sport of New England suffering.
James Bulger #321835 September 23, 2022 4:38 pm 0
Dude. No names or places; or places near places. Don’t you know? the commenters on this blog have no sense of humor AND half of them believe this guy’s is a fed. After all they won’t even agree to meet up when he offers to on vacation. Idiot.
mmack #321759 September 23, 2022 9:15 am 0
“Perhaps if the English language did have a word for this sensation, we would have fewer people willing to degrade themselves in public just to get a little attention.” I thought we had a phrase: Attention Whore/Attention Hound.
Eloi #321768 September 23, 2022 9:46 am 0
He is talking about secondhand shame. I do not watch TV anymore, but when I did, I always hated scenes, often present in sitcoms, where the character is humiliated, as I would feel shame for their shame.
Bourbon #321811 September 23, 2022 2:08 pm 0
When I was a little boy, in a restaurant, or a creamery [a malt shop], and another child started crying, it was like torture for me, feeling so much shame & embarrassment for the crier. Some of my most powerful early childhood memories [which I retain to this day] are of strangers’ children crying in public.
La-Z-Man #321754 September 23, 2022 8:41 am 0
I was confused at first, I thought the man embarrassing himself was Trump, but it’s banana peel guy/journalist. I’ll add fremdchamen to schadenfreude and other cool words that are used to express a detailed, specific situation. Thanks!
joeyjünger #321757 September 23, 2022 8:56 am 0
Grammatically the problem is called “an unclear antecedent.” i.e.“Bob and Bill didn’t get along because a couple years back he slept with his girlfriend and stole his car in the same night.” Who slept with whose girlfriend, stole whose car? Z is a clear writer, but as he says, a one-man band and everyone makes mistakes. Besides, seeking perfection in a blog is a mug’s game. Only douches like Moldbug turn it into their main identity.“Sin and Syntax” is a good primer for how to avoid these kinds of confusions, though, in your sentence construction. It’s also funny, with examples like that motel marquee that said, “We remember all who have served hot breakfast.” Or the church that tried to abbreviate Sunday Worship as “Sun Worship,” like they were the Cult of Sol Invictus or something.
La-Z-Man #321804 September 23, 2022 12:40 pm 0
Thanks for the laughs. Of course, sometimes the intent is obvious given the context. Example: little Timmy and little Jonqueetious fought over their marbles, and he shot him. Or Long time friends Karen and Laqwee’visha went to different colleges cause she failed remedial English for the 3rd time.
Good ol Rebel #321812 September 23, 2022 2:09 pm 0
Eats shoots and leaves vs eats, shoots and leaves (or the proper, “eats, shoots, and leaves”)But enough with the grammer obengruppenfuhrer’ing. We aint here for the grammar and spelling.
angelus #321766 September 23, 2022 9:41 am 0
It’s the same feeling a man gets when forced to watch male strippers.
plato spaghetti #321788 September 23, 2022 11:11 am 0
Or White men kneeling in subjugation to BLM.
Nick Noltes Mugshot #321840 September 23, 2022 5:22 pm 0
Or washing their feet. Disgraceful.
JerseyJeffersonian #321858 September 23, 2022 8:32 pm 0
No, given the reference involved, this actually rose to blasphemous. At least in my book, that is.
Mr C #321749 September 23, 2022 7:55 am 0
To your point about Trump being arrested. I fully expect this to happen before his name is on any 2024 ballot. This is a tactic for the enemy. Maybe their highest priority one. Also, I use “tactic” the way marketers use the term. I honestly don’t want to see him run, nor do I care who wins. I’ll admit that I ate crow after the Roe turnover. I didn’t expect Trump to score any real victories, alas, he did. Looking forward to the show on my lunch break! Thanks!!
Bartleby the Scrivner #321751 September 23, 2022 8:04 am 0
I think the timing of any arrest is important. But before he is on any ballot is my guess. Frankly I’m surprised they haven’t taken the Kennedy solution towards Trump; however, I think that if it looks like Trump will be re-elected, they will play that card.
thezman #321752 September 23, 2022 8:32 am 0
The timing question is a good one. On the one hand, they may think it will energize their people for the midterms. On the other hand, they may worry it energizes the other side. Getting the imaginary vote out for midterms is really hard because the regime supporters do not have a single bogeyman on which to focus. I suspect things move quick after the midterm. They arrest Trump, Kamala gets thrown off the bus and replaced by the person the Biden people want running in 2024. Then they begin the process of easing Biden out in 2023.
Jack Dobson #321760 September 23, 2022 9:16 am 0
I think that sequence is the ideal one that they would like to play out. Given their incompetence, though, it almost certainly will fail spectacularly. For example, you are correct that Harris will have to be sacked before Biden is eased out, but how do they keep the vibrants in line? A new George Floyd hoax? And what happens if the semi-fraudulent proxy war goes south with Russia? And so on. It would be difficult for talented and competent people to do these things in that order, let alone these clowns.
thezman #321778 September 23, 2022 10:43 am 0
We cannot see into the black box, but it seems we have three gangs in control of things. The Biden gang runs the White House and is allied with the Obama gang. The Clinton gang is still in business. They restarted their money laundering operation recently, so that may mean something is happening behind the scenes. The Trotsky gang is still there, but how much of a role they play in this is unknown, but they are still running foreign policy.Presumably the Biden gang knows Biden is not going to make it much longer and he cannot run in 2024. Sure, that brain damaged guy from PA is going to win his senate race, but that is not a great precedent. They will want to a new guy who will guard their interests. That is not an easy task.Again, without knowing what is happening inside the black box, my guess is they could ship out Kamala and replace her with Gavin Newsome, after Biden agrees to not run. This assumes Newsome is willing to join gang Biden. If Biden falters quickly, then they can ease him out in 2023 and have Newsome come in and get a head start on 2024.We cannot see it, but there must be a ton of court intrigue right now. No different from when the king is sick and he has not named an heir.
Jack Dobson #321786 September 23, 2022 11:05 am 0
@thezman: I think Club Kagan is more closely aligned to the Clinton camp although it had great success in igniting the proxy war with Russia under the Biden/Obama gang, who prefer domestic enemies to foreign ones. As for the new puppet, no, it won’t be an easy task because those other gangs have a degree of veto power.
RealityRules #321787 September 23, 2022 11:11 am 0
ZMan –I don’t see a path to getting rid of Harris using any conventional means. The only way is if she agrees to resign for health or family obligation reasons. Will she do that? If she has notions of grandeur of say, becoming the first black female president who sets up her own version of the Clinton Foundation, she won’t be convinced – no matter how much money she is offered. That leaves assassination.If assassination happens it will have to be sanctioned by the Obama Black Supremacist machine, which means they name the successor. Michelle? How do the other factions accept that – namely the Newsome/Pelosi crime syndicate? If their gal/guy isn’t the replacement, American cities burn to the ground.What I wouldn’t give to be around the palace intrigue. I am particularly interested in the Obama Black Supremacist faction. Has this faction’s rise in the past 60 years been primarily through threat of mass riots? Is that too cynical?
Compsci #321800 September 23, 2022 11:53 am 0
I have always suspected that Harris has more than few skeletons in the closet and that she was compromised from the get go. I could never see the VP being remotely independent when Biden was chosen—he being in such failing health. My suspicion is that she is gone based on a discussion or two prior to Biden leaving.The historical antecedent would be Nixon and Agnew. Nixon was on the rails and when the White House tape with the missing segment turned up, everyone knew it was the end. However, all of a sudden an FBI investigation of Agnew wrt bribery while in the Gov’s office hit the front pages.It was so obvious, that politician cartoonists made fun of the sudden “shift” from Nixon to Agnew. Anyway, Agnew was cut a deal for moving along quickly. The Rep’s were cut a deal and Nixon could appoint the new President in waiting, Ford. Nixon probably cut a deal with Ford with his unprecedented “pardon”. And Ford got screwed as the last man standing by granting an unseemly pardon to Nixon before a trail and conviction and a full accounting of his actions and thereby losing his Presidential election bid to Carter.
The Wild Geese Howard #321831 September 23, 2022 4:25 pm 0
Willie Brown has all the dirt on Harris from their time in SF. That’s why he warned her not to run in the first place.
Bourbon #321847 September 23, 2022 6:12 pm 0
The Wild Geese Howard: “Willie Brown has all the dirt on Harris from their time in SF. That’s why he warned her not to run in the first place.”Willie can’t run as Gavin’s VP, at least not if we were still adhering to the Constitution in 2024 [of course, Willie could always pull a Dick Cheney, and move to Detroit for a few days].I wonder what Willie would want in exchange for destroying Kamala?To play the role of Colin Powell as Secretary of State?To play the role of Lloyd J. Austin III as SecDef?To play the role of Ben Carson at HUD?It seems like Willie would demand far more than that, and he’d have Barry & Michelle in his corner.I wouldn’t be surprised if Willie were to swing hard for the stands in Left field, and demand Chairmanship of the Federal Reserve.He’d be a mere 90 years old in 2024.And the Silents are showing no desire whatsover to pass the baton to the Boomers.Skeksis, the lot of ’em.
The Greek #321846 September 23, 2022 6:06 pm 0
I wouldn’t eliminate the possibility that they try to arrest desantis too. They’re pretty much mask off at this point to anyone with a brain. The Martha’s Vineyard stunt gave them the minimal amount of pretext they needed.
Bilejones #321851 September 23, 2022 6:42 pm 0
California will be looking for a new Governor.
Outdoorspro #321762 September 23, 2022 9:17 am 0
“Frankly I’m surprised they haven’t taken the Kennedy solution towards Trump;” It’s clear that they’d really like to take that path, but why risk turning him into a martyr? Much, much better to humiliate him and make him ineligible to run again. Then, when he slips into irrelevance, get rid of him. You know, just to be sure…
Jack Dobson #321764 September 23, 2022 9:31 am 0
“Much, much better to humiliate him and make him ineligible to run again”They attempted that with the stage-managed January 6 “insurrection” and the subsequent Stalinist show trials in Congress and failed spectacularly. Arresting him almost certainly will make Trump a martyr, too. I think assassination likely is being discussed and, if they do it, the gunman will be a Bernie Bro. Two birds with one stone if they go that route.Being in the midst of a grift/proxy war with Russia, there is probably the thought that the illusion and deception that the United States is a free and human rights-supporting democracy has to be maintained. Never discount these buffoons are totally capable of screwing up anything. Being on the ropes due to Trump, who hardly is Cicero, illustrates the utter incompetence of the Regime.
Eloi #321769 September 23, 2022 9:57 am 0
I’m pretty sure people have been, and continue to be, thrown into the dungeon for years. Certainly effective from my perspective. Ask Normie his thoughts, and he will tell you it a was riot overthrowing our democracy.
Jack Dobson #321776 September 23, 2022 10:32 am 0
@Eloi:At best, it may have kept some psychopathic yahoo from going full Timothy McVeigh, but wouldn’t that sort of thing have actually helped them? They obviously have been trying to incite domestic terrorism and political violence to no avail. The show trials possibly could have been effective if the economy had been strong, life more pleasant, the world peaceful, and people in need of other diversions, but even that seems dubious to me. Most people, it would seem, just see it all as a continuous clown show, tune it out and become all the more apathetic (which in fact may be considered successful as far as it goes).
Drew #321770 September 23, 2022 10:00 am 0
The reason they don’t take the Kennedy route is the same reason they withdrew from Afghanistan: they are weak men. They’re moral depravity is a function of weakness. To paraphrase Chesterton, they aren’t strong enough to be bad.
Jack Dobson #321777 September 23, 2022 10:34 am 0
I hadn’t thought of it that way but it is a good point. Like the general populace now, TPTB are cowards and quite soft, too.
trumpton #321799 September 23, 2022 11:38 am 0
Did not stop them from poisoning millions of people, mutilating children and smashing every western economy into dust.
RealityRules #321791 September 23, 2022 11:17 am 0
The other advantage of the constant humiliation approach is that Mayorkas and his backers continue with The Great Replacement, moving to the next stage of genocide via the anti-white school curriculum regime being created, and many other projects continue while ConInc and TrumpWorld go into outrage.Another benefit is that it is humiliation by proxy – humiliate and demoralize The Dirts.Yet another benefit, is the next round of new voters and the entrenched hysterics rush to vote to prevent the evil Man In The Castle and his hordes of white supremacists from coming back to oppress them.It is diabolically clever.
Jack Dobson #321753 September 23, 2022 8:39 am 0
“I honestly don’t want to see him run, nor do I care who wins.”I don’t care who wins but do want Trump to run simply to force the national security state to show the public that it chooses its puppets and that elections are meaningless pageants (an arrest very well may accomplish the same). I will vote once more (or do a write-in if he’s not on the ballot) and it will be in 2024, and it will be for Trump. It will act as a final no confidence vote in Clownworld and, if by some miraculous intervention, he actually were permitted to win, it will kick off a civil war or force the National Security State to declare the pageants are no longer permitted and it will now rule openly instead of behind the scenes. There will be no more manufacturing consent because the totalitarianism will not be hidden. It barely is now but it doesn’t take much to fool the idiots we live among.The morality Z has described in this podcast merely is a narrative to distract from the systemic oppression and evil. The empty and meaningless elections are a mask. If there were a consensus, all immigration would have ended eons ago, to cite on example. There is no morality in Clownworld.
Tired Citizen #321756 September 23, 2022 8:54 am 0
I won’t ever vote again, but I’d love for him to win because of the acceleration it would bring. Seeing the urban liberal women having their homes burnt to the ground by rabid blacks will bring some solace. It will truly be the final nail in the coffin for this former country.
3g4me #321782 September 23, 2022 10:56 am 0
Jack: Interesting scenario. I am no longer registered to vote, to my great satisfaction. I lost any ‘faith’ I had in Trump long ago, and would not vote for him even if elections were anything more than political theater. Your point that another Trump campaign or election would force the security state to remove its threadbare mask raises the question: Would anyone even notice? People see what they want to see. All the grillers gearing up for their ‘red wave.’ All those sportsball fans settling down for the season. And all the YT preppers busy pushing dosimeters and gas masks.I want no part of elections, and I have no desire to ‘survive’ a nuclear exchange. And, sad to say, I see no move by the security state, no matter how blatant, that would somehow force the majority of the White residents of this corner of the Global Economic Zone to truly take note. To force them to acknowledge the reality of Clown World.People much prefer their pretty illusions, and will not willingly surrender them. If the rape and murder of loved ones or the sexual grooming and mutilation of children hasn’t forced a recognition of reality from Joe and Jane, I truly don’t know why you think the cessation of elections will. Barbed wire fences around the Federal Zone elicited a yawn. A national manhunt for anyone within spitting distance of the Capitol on Jan 6 has gotten some internet sads. Not to worry – a candlelight vigil and some flowers and teddy bears will demonstrate that We The People Care. Meantime, back in reality . . .
Jack Dobson #321793 September 23, 2022 11:22 am 0
“People much prefer their pretty illusions, and will not willingly surrender them. If the rape and murder of loved ones or the sexual grooming and mutilation of children hasn’t forced a recognition of reality from Joe and Jane, I truly don’t know why you think the cessation of elections will.”Domestically, you are somewhat right on this particular point. I’m pretty certain, though, the more people who peel off the borg the better and some will after the illusion of stakeholder government totally drops. Anything that speeds that along helps. You have to admit there has been some, no matter how insufficient it may be, pushback against the sexual grooming and genital mutilation of children. So there is a limited number, admittedly nowhere near enough to effect political change, who still will peel off. That’s to the good.The world is dividing into two camps, and the nation where we live has thrived a long time on the facade of participatory government. Anything that puts the lie to that also helps in that it weakens the regime.
plato spaghetti #321795 September 23, 2022 11:28 am 0
Normalcy bias. Ever seen the store security videos of people casually looking through clothes racks while an active shooter rampages through the next aisle? Joe Normie be grillin’ like it’s 1985.
Good ol Rebel #321815 September 23, 2022 2:35 pm 0
So despair is a sin…You dont need a majority. Majorities have never done anything, it is a false goal. Do you think the cultmarxists took over with a majority!? The minute men, the jacobins, the bolshevists, the Caudilloists, Khmer Rouge, the Augustinian faction, etc etc: NEVER the majority and can usually only get maybe 10% popular support. The falangists never got over 20% of the vote before 1939. Franco wasnt even a falangist in 36! Yet there they stand in history.What White Christian Hope needs is the confluence of a willing vanguard and a time of opportunity. The more “times of opportunity,” the more chances our people have of survivng and even escaping globohomo’s yoke. A breakdown of succession is a “red banner” time of opportunity, so here’s hoping there are “many such cases.”
joeyjünger #321747 September 23, 2022 7:53 am 0
There’s an interesting (albeit dense) book called “The Future of Nostalgia,” that makes the following point about time travel narratives: In the past, when people contemplated building time machines, they mostly thought about traveling to the future. Why would you want to go to the past, where the technology was more retrograde and humanity not as advanced? In the 20th century, the SF polarities sort of reversed, and time travel narratives were mostly about going to the past to recapture something that was lost in the modern age. The best of these is probably Jack Finney’s “Time and Again,” which is Proustian in its detail of Old New York.I guess the takeaway is that—similar to Z’s observation on “Indiana Jones”—confident cultures who feel they’re on the rise look forward to the future, while those in a defensive crouch or on the run seek the past. That’s why the political polarities have to shift, too, or we’re all going to be dead soon (literally). We cannot be the reactionaries, defending the system, or pining for what’s lost, making a cult of Reagan or the Constitution. We have to be future-oriented and imaginative rather than reflexive and backwards looking, or again, we’re dead, and again, I mean that literally.
Montefrío #321772 September 23, 2022 10:12 am 0
Ah, Finney’s “Time and Again”!Native NYer born ’46, SPS and 56th who has the hardcover of that book, read and reread multiple times, photos remembered… Ah, Manhattan! Cry the beloved “country” remembering what once it was while sitting in the early springtime sun on my porch in rural, hidden South America where I’ve been living for 18 years now.I read (past and present tense) with somewhat morbid fascination what has become of the land I left and confess to being very pleased to have done so. Y’all up there have my sympathy, but you younger folks have to get on the case quickly, or my sympathy will erode into disdain and I’ll begin to become a Sudaca who snickers at your growing distress; “Sudaca” has its charms, heh heh.
Paintersforms #321878 September 24, 2022 1:26 pm 0
Translation: “I shit the bed, now you clean it up or I’ll be very disappointed in you.” If ever a comment deserved an ‘OK, boomer’, it’s this one.
Mow Noname #321794 September 23, 2022 11:26 am 0
I’ve visited both St. Louis and Chicago in the past week.Both cities are dead. St. Louis is down to the bleached bones, Chicago is just past the “swarming with maggots” stage (2020 St. George Floyd riots).The few strong, confident, men I saw in Chicago are nowhere near sufficient to bring that corpse back to life. My colleagues in NYC say the same. For what it is worth, I saw zero strong men while in St. Louis.Whatever growth is to come will not be coming from that soil. Aeneas is still out to sea.…now have a nice weekend! If possible, make more children or support your grandchildren: the future belongs to those who show up.
Some Guy #321744 September 23, 2022 6:34 am 0
There is a slang term for second-hand embarassment, cringe.
thezman #321745 September 23, 2022 6:48 am 0
I did not think about that, but yeah, that works. We should probably credit Redd Foxx for giving us this.
joeyjünger #321748 September 23, 2022 7:55 am 0
If Red Foxx were here today, he could slam Stacy Abrams’ face in some dough and make better gorilla cookies than with Aunt Esther’s visage.
KGB #321773 September 23, 2022 10:13 am 0
Back in the Reagan years, a high school buddy and I loved to watchSanford And Son. One day he picked me up before school and told me that the night before he’d found a picture of Whitman Mayo (Grady) in a magazine and put it on the family fridge. That morning, his dad had came downstairs and the next thing my friend heard was “Who put a picture of a nigger on my refrigerator!!??” God, we laughed our asses off.Yes, we should look forward, but I hope that the future will allow for the kind of harmless mirth we shared in the past.
ann thompson #321746 September 23, 2022 7:43 am 0
… cringe you can do by yourself without involving an outsider whereas fremdschämen requires someone else to commit the embarrassing act in order for you to feel it …
joeyjünger #321750 September 23, 2022 7:59 am 0
The main thing about Fremdscham (“fremdschämen” with the umlaut is mostly for the verb) isn’t that you just feel vicarious embarrassment. You feel it because the person who should be feeling it doesn’t. If your friend makes an ass of himself and knows it, you feel sympathy. If he makes an ass of himself and doesn’t know it, you feel something much worse, and have to look away. When people on Martha’s Vineyard started bleating about human trafficking, swelling with self-righteousness, or when Russiagaters start mewling about conspiracy theories, they can’t see the irony, the hypocrisy, and it gives the rest of us dark thoughts. Their lack of self-awareness is dangerous and deadly, whereas Fremdscham is mostly for your hammered buddy doing “Sweet Caroline” on Karaoke Night after downing five shots.
Ben the Layabout #321761 September 23, 2022 9:17 am 0
It’s my understanding the French have a similar term, “faux pas.” I’m fairly well read, but I fail to grasp how a wild canine moving by one has relevance with shame or embarrassment. 🤡
Maxda #321755 September 23, 2022 8:42 am 0
“Douche-chills” is more offensive but about the same meaning.
Ben the Layabout #321758 September 23, 2022 9:08 am 0
In a pathetic attempt to inject some Nietzsche 🙂 , which I haven’t done for some time. English’s lack of a simple word meaning “second-hand embarrassment” is hardly unique. Nietzsche cites a similar lack of a word for not embarrassment, but of suffering and (by implication) the word is “missing” in many languages. An individual’s suffering (whether caused by man’s cruelty, or simply due to natural forces) was viewed entirely differently in non-Christian societies. By both the sufferer and by onlookers, it was considered a most embarrassing personal fault. A vestige of such a view remains in our modern world,with sayings like “Big boys don’t cry.”Nietzsche writes:The Greeks have a word for indignation at another’s unhappiness; this affect was inadmissible among Christian peoples and failed to develop, so they also lack a name for this more manly brother of pity.– Daybreak (aka The Dawn of Day), ch. 78.
Curious Monkey #321780 September 23, 2022 10:48 am 0
Came here just for this. The kids call this third person embarrassment “cringe” today.
Hemid #321797 September 23, 2022 11:32 am 0
That’s what it meant fifteen years ago. It’s shifted to a mere insult. You don’t cause a sympathetic cringe anymore; you simply *are* cringe—a standalone embarrassment. A few years ago, young /ourguys/ memed the world into two types of people, “based” vs. “cringe,” roughly meaning credible vs. obedient. A promising development…until normies figure out how to ruin it (which probably already happened).


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