Talking To Normie

Date: January 17, 2020
Canonical: 19582
Archive: 19582 [history]
Categories: Podcasts

Continuing my experimental phase, the show this week is about ways to talk to our normie friends and family, in a way that leads them our way. I’ve been around civic nationalists recently and I was reminded of conversations I’ve had with others about how tough it is sometimes for dissidents to address the civic nationalist arguments in a way that brings them our way. This week I thought a show on how to talk to normie in a positive way would be interesting.

I was not sure how I wanted to structure it, so I took some of the things that have come up recently in my normie interactions and made those segment topics. Then I just turned the mic on and started talking about each one, as if I was giving a short lecture to a classroom full of civic nationalist. I was thinking of it like a class on dissident politics for freshmen level students. I wanted it to be accessible to the sorts of people who don’t spend any time on this side of the great divide.

The key thing with talking to our normie friends, family and acquaintances is to not become adversarial. The huge blunder our side makes on social media is to mock these people as if they are enemies. A little bit of that is fine, but fifty people blasting a civic nationalist on Twitter is not winning him over. It’s only hardening his position and making it easier for the gatekeepers to keep him inside. These people are future allies and compatriots, not forever enemies of the cause.

Effective organizing is building lots of on-ramps to this side of the great divide, to make it easier for all sorts of people to come this way. Language that will work on the 2A civic nationalist will not necessarily work on the spergy libertarian. The Sean Hannity watching patriot is going to respond to different rhetoric than the Tucker watching Donald Trump supporter. Dissident politics needs to be like a department store, with something for all the types of white people out there.

This inability to build on ramps is why prior race realists have always failed to gain any traction. They struck people as lunatics. They had one on ramp. You had to pay the lunatic a toll in order to cross over. The now defunct alt-right suffered from the same defect, as it became loaded down with insider jargon and factionalism. All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.

It is the heart of the optics debate. If dissident ideas are to gain traction with typical white people, it has to creep up on them like the fog. One day, they just find themselves on this side of the divide, without realizing they made the journey. That happens by having lots of ways here and lots of pleasant sounding people they can trust, subtly pointing them in this direction. That can only work if there are lots of doors through which they can pass into this type of politics.

This week I have the usual variety of items in the now standard format. Spreaker has the full show. I am up on Google Play now, so the Android commies can take me along when out disrespecting the country. I am on iTunes, which means the Apple Nazis can listen to me on their Hitler phones. The anarchists can catch me on iHeart Radio. YouTube also has the full podcast. Of course, there is a download link below.

For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. It turns out that you can’t live on clicks and compliments. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation. Or, you can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks, rather than have that latte at Starbucks. Thank you for your support!

This Week’s Show

Contents

00:00: Opening
05:00: Hate Speech
15:00: Public – Private Tyranny
25:00: Who Owns You?
35:00: Peaceful Separation
45:00: The Value Of Citizenship

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

210 Comments

Whitney #142541 January 17, 2020 7:58 am 61

I had a conversation with a normie yesterday that started with her talking about how much she like Dennis Prager. After a series of back and forths we got through how people like Dennis Prager and Ben Shapiro support ethno-nationalism for their own people but condemned it in white people to how the guy who got life in prison in Charlottesville was a political prisoner for promoting white rights not for killing someone by showing drunk drivers can mow over entire families and get 10 years and at the end of the conversation she quite seriously had the realization and said aloud “being white is an anathema”I am well aware that there will come a day where talking like that will get me thrown in prison put I got to admit that was pretty satisfying and this blog deserve some credit for my talking points

Forever Templar #142543 January 17, 2020 8:31 am 16

Yeah, pointing out tyranny by minority seems to be really effective. I use that tract when talking about gays and trannies.

Whitney #142545 January 17, 2020 8:40 am 17

I saw yesterday that I had to be very clear that I supported Jewish people and the Jewish state for them or I would have lost her right then. Going after the sacred cows would have ended the conversation and I cannot honestly state that I support rights for the for the degenerates so that would end the conversation right there and identify me as a ‘bad person’

Epaminondas #142566 January 17, 2020 10:51 am 27

And that is precisely why I am a bad spokesperson for the DR. I am really impatient with dorks who think they are morally obligated to support Israel and perverts. Turning over tables is usually an impediment to conversation.

Yves Vannes #142574 January 17, 2020 11:02 am 21

The TRS guys had a good take on this: I’d really like to extend the Jews a right to have a homeland that is for them but…they won’t extend that same right to our homelands. They are even attacking Japan for wanting to keep it Japanese!(blunt the goy vs jew problem).As long as they are willing to support our rights to our homelands then I will happily support their rights to theirs. Just point out the hypocrisy. It’s not that you’re against Israel or Jewish interests, it’s about fairness.

Ant Man Bee #142578 January 17, 2020 11:19 am 17

Israel is not the Homeland of the Jews. If it were, then all the Jews would go and live there, and then they would forever after be free of the turrrrble scourge of all the antisemitisms.But, as we observe, Jews do not go and live in their alleged Homeland, and they don’t want to, and they never will. They are quite comfortable right here, delightedly relaxing on some cushions in the shade, contentedly sipping the blood of their dumb goy hosts. In fact, what we see is the reverse: hordes of Israelis migrating to the West, Jewishly using whatever Jewish scam or grift they can manage, in order to live amongst the goyim instead of the Jews.Israel is not a nation and it is not a Homeland: it is a hideout, a vacation retreat, a summer house, an HQ with fake diplomatic status and nuclear weapons for blackmail. It is simply a bolt-hole and a set-up: it is a gangster hide-out, propped up and emboldened with formal notions of ostensible sovereignty to give it cover for its operations. Israel is the gangster headquarters of an international crime syndicate.Think of it: Our Greatest Ally and Best Friend Evah does not even have an extradition treaty with us.

Yves Vannes #142589 January 17, 2020 12:26 pm 20

The goal here is to get whites to think in terms of white interests. We can only do that by not spooking them with demands that go against a lifetime of social conditioning. I don’t care what happens in the Middle East. Getting our tribe to think like a tribe is what we should be putting all of our energy into.If we can get enough of our people to think in terms of group interests…all of this other stuff will work itself out. Steps 1 and 2 first. Whitney is correct, too many potential allies will tune-out if we go full tilt at the JQ

Alzaebo #142608 January 17, 2020 1:58 pm 6

I agree, Ant Man, Israel is their Sicily.I’m thinking “The Godfather” here.

james wilson #142635 January 17, 2020 3:12 pm 11

According to Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews the old Hebrews at all times gave themselves fits trying to govern themselves and flourished instead in those eras when they lived in Babylon or were simply ruled by others. My guess, this is baked into their DNA, just as our relative trust of strangers, which leaves us defenseless against subversion, was baked in during the unprecedented North European out breeding during the Middle Ages.

Vizzini #142723 January 18, 2020 3:19 pm 1

According to Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews the old Hebrews at all times gave themselves fits trying to govern themselves and flourished instead in those eras when they lived in Babylon or were simply ruled by others. Johnson plagiarized that from the Old Testament. 🙂 That’s pretty much the entire narrative.

My_Comment #142679 January 17, 2020 7:20 pm 12

“Our Greatest Ally and Best Friend Evah does not even have an extradition treaty with us.”That is the type of approach I use with normies a well as things like “have you ever noticed that Jews say walls are against their culture and want massive immigration to the US but in Israel they have a wall and strict immigration for Jews only. Why do you think that is?” I ask that with a tone of questioning and then pause. That usually causes them to connect a dot for the first time and really think about the issue. They haven’t slowed themselves to notice that hypocrisy before. They don’t get to the jq but they get closer.

Lorenzo #142685 January 17, 2020 8:27 pm 4

A great way to fix it so the normies shut out anything you say is to start banging on about the Jews. It’s a sublect normal people rightly associate with losers and cranks.

Compsci #142699 January 17, 2020 10:33 pm 9

Lorenzo. That would be true, but I usually avoid such by simply acknowledging what we often do here, that (((they))) come from some high IQ stock (at least the European side), and they take care of themselves in a clannish manner. Both observations are to most people, neutral to positive. From there, it’s not much of a stretch to promote, that we (Whites) might take a lesson or two from their success. No need to turn folks off.

Lorenzo #142722 January 18, 2020 2:38 pm -2

Compsci, you’re right. The Jews are a group of smart people, socially cohesive, who tend to look after each other. History and natural selection explain this adequately. That much is true, jabbering about conspiracies is wrong and plain stupid. Pretty much the same could be said of Mormons. Israel is a small country in a hostile environment that uses the means at its disposal to prosper and survive. Can’t blame them for that.

Exile #142733 January 19, 2020 1:59 am 9

Do Mormons have 10% of the influence Jews have over finance, media. the courts and politics in America? Israel is the only nuclear power in a hostile environment it chose to occupy. Some of those “means at its disposal” include manipulating the United States into fighting its wars. Americans can and should blame them for that. Why don’t you?

Exile #142732 January 19, 2020 1:53 am 7

Normal people rightly… ? You’ve just called about 120 of the 180ish commenters here as I post this “losers and cranks.” Way to go, Lorenzo. Winning hearts & minds for Zion in typically charming Jewish fashion.

Calsdad #142602 January 17, 2020 1:43 pm 11

It’s also about hypocrisy.Most people don’t even know about the USS Liberty incident.So their view point of Israel is one of unfettered goodness. There is no bad thing that Israel could have ever done. Killing Palestinians doesn’t really count in most people’s heads.But you can setup cognitive dissonance within normie heads – by asking them why they simply don’t care about the deaths and the subsequent coverup those deaths – of US servicemen.Where does your loyalty REALLY lie – is a simple question to ask of a person who tries to discount the Liberty incident. Yes – they’ll probably try to excuse away the whole thing by using the passage of time (it was 1967)You can then pile-on , by comparing the treatment of Israel – with that of Iran. Military actions undertaken by Israel – with NO provocation – resulted in the deaths of US servicemen. Yes – Iran took Americans hostage – but it didn’t kill them. And there is a serious argument that they were at least somewhat righteous in that action based on OUR past behavior within their country. And Iran is still right up there as enemy #1 – after the passage of 40 years.So you can’t tell me that the passage of time alone discounts past bad actions.The main goal is to find the crack where you can drive in the wedge that points out their normie hypocrisy.

Alzaebo #142611 January 17, 2020 2:03 pm 8

Carlsdad, I’m curiously cool about the USS Liberty. For some reason it doesn’t ring my bell. Maybe because I have no idea what was going on with that, and can’t relate. That’s just my reaction- a normie friend and Vietnam vet vigorously defended Israel saying it was a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident. He stopped talking to me after 20 years of daily calls, too, much later, as I came to realize the holocaust was absurd, lunatic bullsh*t and once explained why. The movie, “Judgement at Nuremberg”, defined his moral universe.

Mike_C #142625 January 17, 2020 2:46 pm 22

“a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident.” Of course it was. A prolonged multiphase attack by multiple aircraft and ships, including rocket fire and aerial strafing, followed by napalm, torpedoes, surface rockets and strafing from a surface craft, happens all the time. And not only in wartime. Why just the other day at the range a fella barely escaped being napalmed due to a simple mistake. Greatest ally EVAR!

Calsdad #142632 January 17, 2020 3:05 pm 8

Go tohttp://www.unz.comand just do a search (upper right hand corner) – for “USS Liberty” (include the quotes).You’ll find plenty of reading materialOh yeah, and your Vietnam vet friend thinks it’s OK for the United States to attack a country based on a hyped up incident (we initiated the Tonkin Gulf exchange by firing first) – and where we had no casualties. And yet excuses away a direct UNPROVOKED attack – where there were 34 dead, 171 wounded – and we almost lost a ship?You see that sounds like an almost perfect opportunity to call somebody out on their hypocrisy.“why do you want US servicemen to die needlessly – what are you – some kind of commie?”

Franciscan #142664 January 17, 2020 4:54 pm 10

I served six years as an enlisted Navy cryptologist, the same guys as the USS Liberty crew, back in the 70s and 80s in the Med. I learned the whole story of the Liberty and more about the Pueblo after my active duty ended. I do recall on one deployment mentioning the Liberty in the presence of a Naval Intelligence lieutenant and getting a stern lecture on our “closest ally”.Anyway, I’m just a working class white guy who loves my people as I expect everyone to love theirs. I’ve got close family that are of partly Jewish descent and many close Jewish friends. I count them as white and I’ve never heard anyone say Jews aren’t white except some woke Chinese brat of my acquaintance — too long and inconsequential a story to get into. I’m not blind on the JQ, thoughEnough from me for today. Thank you to the Zman and all you commenters. I look forward everyday to this site

Alzaebo #142669 January 17, 2020 5:48 pm 6

Ooh. The Pueblo. Still boilin’ mad about that one. Our Guys tortured for 8 months. That President- accused of being corrupt beyond even Georgia standards, though I never got the details- went on to create the Homes for Welfare Cases, built by church white hands while blacks in Cadillacs watched. Carter also put Mugabe in power and did the deal to give the torturers nuclear weapons. “Christian President” my azz.That ratf**k. Betrayal, rank betrayal.

Alzaebo #142668 January 17, 2020 5:36 pm 4

He served. I didn’t.Other sevicemen have said, not unreasonably, that my opinion in such matters carries no water with them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

Oldtradesman #142753 January 19, 2020 6:19 pm 1

In the past I have asked normies that question on numerous occasions. The usual response is along the lines of, “It’s all part of God’s plan.” The fact is that they simply don’t care about the USS Liberty or somebody’s child dying/maimed for Israel. It’s all about rapture and “Beam me up, Scotty!”

Vizzini #142724 January 18, 2020 3:23 pm 7

Just point out the hypocrisy. It’s not that you’re against Israel or Jewish interests, it’s about fairness. It doesn’t matter. I’ve learned through experience that any criticism of Israel or Jews at all, even an attempt at even-handed discussion of an issue where the idea might arise that Jews might not in all ways be right about everything begets the accusation of anti-Semite. And the conversation stops there.

Vizzini #142728 January 18, 2020 6:34 pm 7

Can I assume I’m being downvoted for being an anti-Semite?

Mark Stoval #142736 January 19, 2020 5:39 am 4

Not by me. I almost always find your comments spot-on and worth my time to read. I can’t say we always agree on everything, but then I may not always be right. 🙂

Forever Templar #142737 January 19, 2020 8:26 am 3

Let me introduce you to one Jake Adelstein; Jewish expat and particularly gregarious supporter of the brown hordes invading Japan. Turbo kike. He came to fame by authoring a book entitled “Tokyo Vice”. To which, if believed, he became a reporter and went and did some serious poking around in yakuza business and was utterly surprised when they turned their attention toward him. Kid you not, first 20 pages and the guy cries about antisemitism. It’s been rumored he’s some kind of stringer for the Israeli embassy. And it would fit, his writing output per year is virtually negligible and his place of business is said to have armed guards, a highly irregular thing for foreigners in Nippon. Even the expat community in Japan, filled with garbage liberals as it is, can’t stand the guy.

Alzaebo #142752 January 19, 2020 1:07 pm 1

A salesman of many years told me the best way to lose the sale was to keep talking.

John Smith #142595 January 17, 2020 12:42 pm 36

I think a lot of you dissidents underestimate yourselves and your effectiveness. Also – I think that many of you suffer from a premature case of defeatism. I come from a pozzed shitlib family where politics DID tear us apart, largely because the morals and ethics that were part and parcel of them. It was awful, but even they are asking questions now – and starting to notice things they tried their best to ignore. Reality will not be denied. Said another way, God (or Darwin and Murphy if you prefer) – will not be mocked. What goes around, eventually comes around.It’s easy to get that way, after all these years of Hive domination. But the wheels are coming off their bus, and the smarter ones are scared spitless because they know it. Eg – Everyone is divorced now, and guys like Heartiste are seeing themselves vindicated and even celebrated. My Marxist brother in law married a feminist and was the toast of the family for doing so. Predictably, half a decade later he was divorced, with two kids left in the lurch – and the progs doing their best to pretend that it was a good thing and that a strong empowered woman can raise good well adjusted kids on her own. Even the progs are getting red pilled now – good and hard. People are ready to listen to race and gender realities. The JQ is being discussed in Starbucks. The progs are in deep trouble and they’re panicking. That is why idiots like Pelosi are whistling past the grave yard with the impeachment scam, and desperate Marxists are trying to grab guns in Virginia. They are telling themselves that a good defence is a strong offence because it worked so well for Trump. They are too clued out to see they are enraging many that might otherwise support them. Is it too early to see that the Saxon is beginning to hate?The next election will tell the tale I suppose. I am predicting a land slide for Trump. These things move slowly – and that would be a great starting point.

HamburgerToday #142615 January 17, 2020 2:09 pm 18

Interesting observations. It has often been said that the best salesman for the Right is the Left. It’s as if the Right sometimes does not believe in cause-and-effect. Liberalism has been dominant in the West for centuries and as long as that dominance was associated with bourgeois comfort for the middle class, the middle class went along with Liberalism’s program of ‘liberation’ of ‘the oppressed’. But now ‘the oppressed’ have become politically and legally dominant and the middle class is under siege by globalism, the middle class is looking around and realizing that *they* are not ‘the oppressed’ *but nobody cares* and some are actually cheering the middle class’ decline. The Left are truly great haters and when they get to hating they just cannot stop. The Left started hating the middle class back in 1950s and they’re not going to stop or slow down now even though the middle class is starting to ((notice)).

james wilson #142639 January 17, 2020 3:20 pm 11

You are cheering me up, JS. I tend to feel it’s going the other way, but bad news is all to visible while good news remains hidden until it becomes obvious.

Michaeloh #142691 January 17, 2020 9:05 pm 1

Id be cautious of advice which counsels recklessness like infering the JQ is ready for prime time because “ the JQ is discussed in Starbucks.” By all means dissidents, make sure you dont “underestimate yourselves or your effectiveness.” Full speed ahead. Its almost as if a Fed were encouraging the naive to out themselves In the most Charlottsville manner possible.

John Smith #142712 January 18, 2020 9:51 am 2

The JQ will not be going mainstream right away – but the edgier lefties are talking about it – in a place that is the bastion of political correctness. The Jewry – if they aren’t very, very careful – are going to find that lefties make excellent cannon fodder and slaves… but lousy allies and masters.

Felix Krull #142716 January 18, 2020 12:27 pm 7

Thanks, great post.I think that many of you suffer from a premature case of defeatism.Yes. And on top of that, you have trolls working hard to instill this defeatism in us, the “America is lost”-type of comments. And a lot of those comments – I’m looking at you, Breitbart – are simply fellow white people there to gloat, stroking their members while they fantasize about what they’re going to do once they have whitey enslaved at their feet.Well, it’s not happening on my watch. As Queen Ann said, if whites are so murderously savage, maybe you shouldn’t make us angry.

Bartleby the Scrivner #142742 January 19, 2020 10:01 am 1

Trump in a landslide?From your mouth to Gods ear.Clinton was supposed to win in a landslide, and we know how that turned out.My fear is that they will leave nothing to chance, vis a vis cheating, to take Orange man down.They won’t be caught with their pant suits down again.Time will tell. Remember, a person is smart; people are basically stupid.

Tars_Tarkusz #142612 January 17, 2020 2:05 pm 21

The biggest part of becoming “red-pilled” isn’t so much learning about reality, it is about removing the emotional blinders that were put on your head as a child.There is a reason they want to target younger and younger children with their propaganda. As has been noticed before, there is nobody so blind as those who refuse to see. It is literally painful to deal with information that goes against what you feel, especially if you have felt that way since you were young enough to believe in Santa. It will give you a headache. It is just a whole lot easier to hand-waive it away or pretend it’s not there than to confront your strongly held emotional beliefs. You feel so strongly about these things and you don’t really know why, or because the answers you were programmed with seem incredibly obvious to you.My personal life circumstances have made me always red-pilled about race, but there were other subjects that were difficult to overcome. Finding out the “truth” about these subjects played virtually no role in overcoming the programming.This is what is happening with your friend. All of the emotional programming is blocking her from seeing these things. Not only that, but she has been conditioned to see anything which contradicts her programming as being evil.This is why you MUST keep children away from certain cultural things, especially those aimed at children, like children’s television, books and other entertainment and heaven forbid the school system. It really doesn’t matter if it’s public school or private. You MUST home-school your children if you want them to think as you do on these particular subjects. They have your kids for 8 hours a day! Globohomo is embedded into every subject in ways that are usually not very obvious. All of this cultural exposure creates the assumptions embedded in us that never get questioned, like everyone being equal. This is why they are teaching children to read with books about “homosexual families” and transgender children and mixed race couples.

Lineman #142634 January 17, 2020 3:06 pm 12

Homeschool or bring back one room schoolhouses that were the bedrock of education before the government got involved… Everyone can’t teach but everyone can pitch in to make it happen…

Compsci #142661 January 17, 2020 4:32 pm 3

Education money needs to follow the student. That will get the government out fairly quickly for most things, because the public schools will have to fight alongside the private for butts in seats. Standardized testing will sort out the wheat from the chaff. The major companies, like ACT, SAT, would love to get into the business of certifying the primary and secondary schools wrt curriculum efforts. This would be little different from today’s tech certification and such. A side benefit would be that the best and brightest move on at their own pace, and folk can get certified, even without seat time if they are so inclined.Problem is that there are way too many public school teachers who would be out of a job if this effort takes hold. Hell, a goodly number of them are little more knowledgeable than their pupils. The public school system is their “rice bowl”. It’s the best job they’ll ever be able to obtain with their limited skill set.

Tars_Tarkusz #142688 January 17, 2020 8:52 pm 10

I think the private schools are just as bad as the public schools. I have nieces and nephews in private schools and their schedule is literally adjusted to keep them safe and out of the center city before the public school diversity gangs start roaming the streets at 3:00 and they are still in complete denial, especially about race.

Compsci #142700 January 17, 2020 10:44 pm 4

I will not disagree, but say my thinking was towards academics and discipline. Here, in a State—the most advanced in promoting charter schools and voucher systems—there is a school choice for practically all types and inclinations of students—and more importantly, the parents. That these schools are poz’d wrt race realism will probably always be the case, but you won’t have Tranny Reading Hour, or male Math Teachers wearing a dress.

c matt #142798 January 20, 2020 10:33 am 1

Of course, YMMV. True, the poz is present, but a large issue is simply school discipline. Admins are too afraid of parental or ACLU backlash to simply kick the trouble makers out, so they disrupt the rest. Ends up becoming a baby sitting service to deal with reprobates.

Carrie #143693 January 23, 2020 11:17 pm 0

Agreed!When I wonder about my competencies, at least I know I can do one thing, and that’s as a teacher in the one room schoolhouse.I’m very sure the classroom management would be easier than what it is today….

Citizen of a Silly Country #142544 January 17, 2020 8:39 am 32

CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there. Focus first on areas where society is openly unfair to whites relative to other races. (Also, use Asians as a way to get around their fear sounding racist.)1. Affirmative action – why is alright to discriminate against white and Asians2. Advocacy Groups – other groups have advocacy groups, why not whites3. White Privilege – do poor whites have white privilege; what about Asians privilege4. Immigration – immigration hurts poor people of any color5. Pride – if other groups should be proud of their heritage, why not whites

Calsdad #142604 January 17, 2020 1:47 pm 8

Re: ” CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there” Exactly why I brought up the USS Liberty incident and comparing our treatment of Iran vs Israel. It’s pretty easy to start highlighting the hypocrisies and “unfairness” displayed in the cloud people’s foreign policy – once you start making appropriate comparisons. You don’t even need to portray the argument as an attack against Israel – but rather as a comparison and argument that maybe we shouldn’t be treating Iran so badly. “If Israel gets to attack us and get away with it – why can’t Iran?”

HamburgerToday #142616 January 17, 2020 2:17 pm 11

Also, I like to point out that ethno-genetic nationalism is about love for one’s own people, not hatred for others. I also tell them that separation is the most certain way to eliminate racism because it is not possible for one race to oppress another if they do not live together and share the same political and legal institutions. Most civnats don’t even know their civnats, they have just absorbed a collection of political and cultural dispositions as those dispositions have been radiated by ‘the culture’. Here’s a place where the poverty of modern education actually plays to our advantage. Most civnats have not given a single moments thought as to why they believe what they believe. If you go gently and, as you pointed out, appear to things they already believe in, you may not convince them of joining our side, but you will sow seeds of doubt that can grow into membership in our side.

Citizen of a Silly Country #142651 January 17, 2020 4:03 pm 9

Exactly. The vast majority of CivNats are good people just to trying to follow the rules of their society. That’s been turned against them. They won’t get turned in a conversation. Our job isn’t to convince them of anything. It’s to put little cracks in their worldview. Little bits of truth that make them think.Also, I’m serious about the Asian/Indian thing being a great way to get CivNats to think. Blacks are sacred so best to avoid. Jews and Hispanics also don’t much, but whites feel zero guilt for Asians and South Asians. Use it. “Wait, why are there Asian business groups but not European-American business groups?” and questions like that work well.

Compsci #142697 January 17, 2020 10:13 pm 6

Blacks may be sacred as you say, but they are the most outlying group—perhaps aside of Muslims—we have in the US. Hard to avoid in most compare and contrast situations. I like your idea wrt Asians however. Just never occurred to me. Thanks.

UFO #142711 January 18, 2020 9:31 am 6

Use blacks if you’re talking to Asians or Hispanics – they don’t have the same obsession that whites do. “Hey, how come blacks get affirmative action but not Asians?” Sow division among the POC. I’ve done it before. It’s kinda fun. And once the POC sees they have an open ear to speak honestly it’s pretty interesting. Chinese ranting about Indians and vice versa is the most common. For whites who get starry eyed about the magic negro routine, use asians instead. Especially Indians, nobody likes them lol.

My_Comment #142682 January 17, 2020 7:37 pm 6

“White Privilege – do poor whites have white privilege; what about Asians privilege” You are right that the battle has to be an emotional and moral one. The left has fought that battle and won. We need to retake the moral high ground. One of the big hurdles with your talking point is that a study showed that when whites hear about white privilege they lose concern for the plight of the whites in the working class and poverty. We have to first attack the concept of white privilege.

Compsci #142698 January 17, 2020 10:26 pm 5

Yep, the concept of White Privilege is pernicious. I point that out to the children whenever the subject comes up—sort of like a follow up inoculation in a series.It helps however, when there is basis to compare and contrast their White Privilege with others not so Privileged. For example, the children all had to work to get through school. Hence they graduated without debt. I always ask them to consider how they were “privileged” to work their asses off and as well as other sorts of things they had the benefit of foregoing while being ”privileged.”It usually takes only a few minutes to rile them up. 😉

Drake #142583 January 17, 2020 11:54 am 24

When my crazy leftist extended family talks about the wonders of sponsoring single mother immigrants from a shithole – I ask “what value will she contribute to my state, town, country, or society? Please explain, I don’t understand.”The true lefty freaks of course. But my normie brother gets a look in his eyes like he’s considering something for the first time.

james wilson #142648 January 17, 2020 3:54 pm 6

My second son was 35 at the time and the best example of human you will find, but pozzed by the general culture. I told him that importing Northeast Africans was a disaster for Americans because IQ is inherited and their IQ was 70. Their nine children all on welfare would themselves always be on welfare and my son’s children would wonder what he had been thinking. He simply could not believe what I was saying but claimed he would research it. Even Google could not steer him away from the truth and he admitted to it, unhappily, but truths do not care about my happiness either. Once upon a time nothing appealed to my happiness more that bullshit.

Mark Taylor #142708 January 18, 2020 6:08 am 4

That and I like to point out when it’s time for college or job selection that immigrant will be selected over their own children.

Drake #142725 January 18, 2020 4:18 pm 2

Maybe – if they decide to leave the Dole. If not, your taxes, medical expenses, insurance, a piece of everything you pay for will be marked up so imported parasites can live comfortably.

Alzaebo #142751 January 19, 2020 12:50 pm 1

That’s it, Mark Taylor, the atom bomb, the Holy Grail, what matters the most.

Chet Rollins #142562 January 17, 2020 10:37 am 22

The most effective rhetorical weapon I’ve seen with regards to Human biodiversity isn’t talking about crime rates, IQ, and other things. Those topics will make most people immediately shut their minds off and go into thought-crime mode.However, say something along the lines of “They’re just born different, and that’s okay”, and you trigger all the logical connections implicitly, and it’s very hard for them to resist.

Mike_C #142588 January 17, 2020 12:22 pm 7

“They’re just born different, and that’s okay”Exactly. One thing I sometimes do (with sports fan type guys — which BTW I totally don’t get) is to point out West African dominance in sprinting and jumping sports, East Africans in the marathon, and so forth. They generally happily nod along. Then when we’ve established some common ground, slip in that since THOSE differences are clear, perhaps there may be OTHER group differences. Responding to your comment because when sports normie starts looking uncomfortable, all I say is “It’s okay to NOTICE.”Don’t need to hammer each point home on the first, or second, or even third conversations. The tool is a wedge, not a honking great maul.Stuff such as the link (James LaFond on whether blacks are better fighters — spoiler: No) is for the advanced course (as a rule), not Realism 101.https://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=11895

Alzaebo #142633 January 17, 2020 3:06 pm 5

Funny, I was talking with a black friend, along with a group of other blacks in Baltimore. We were talking about shaving. He, a tad guiltily, looked at me and said, “I don’t want to be racist, but…” “…a lot of black dudes don’t shave because razors make our skin break out in little bumps.” I chuckled and said, “it’s okay to be racial, brah, we’re all different”, the others nodded, and we kept chatting about skin care products.

The Right Doctor #142658 January 17, 2020 4:14 pm 3

Pseudofolliculitis barbae. Saw lots of it as an Army doc. Profiles for shaving (permission to wear the kind of long stubble / short beards that bump-fighter razors leave behind (they have a sort of cow-catcher). But, dammit, that was the ONLY difference in GIs. We were all green.

Lars #142665 January 17, 2020 5:05 pm 13

Former Army Engineer Officer here. How about the Muslim MD who went on a shooting rampage at Ft Hood? Or the MesoAmerican color-wearing gang members who enlist in the infantry only for the weapons training? Or the Black female caucus at West Point, un-uniformly attired, raising their clenched fists in the black power ( or go grrl, I don’t know ) salute in front of the historic central barracks. Or women being held to significantly lower cambat fitness standards or being individually “coached” by male NCOs in order to pass Ranger school. Once, as a young company commander I was told by the battalion commander and the sergeant major to apologize to a black female NCO because I verbally reprmanded her, in the same vigorous way I would have any other soldier, for showing up for duty two days late from leave. My act was deemed both racist and sexist.In my 17 years of active and reserve duty I rarely saw evidence of a “we’re all green” attitude among Black, Muslim, or female soldiers. Only superficially and temporarily were their interests and ambtions, if any, aligned with that of the Army or the country.

Alzaebo #142673 January 17, 2020 6:17 pm 1

Then, Doc. Then.

james wilson #142645 January 17, 2020 3:44 pm 5

Or say Germans and Italians are born different, which truly they are, and we appreciate each for different reasons. We don’t buy Italian cars or German designs. 50 more small steps to Africans don’t do algebra, so don’t make them.

Alzaebo #142674 January 17, 2020 6:25 pm 3

You bet, james, and Germans and Italians take delight in their differences. Nice way to baby-step “differences are OK” in. Half my relatives are Basque, and they revel in it. Another good one is by state, say, Tennessee Volunteers compared to Maine Lobsters. ‘Scuse me, Lobstahs.

LineInTheSand #142556 January 17, 2020 10:00 am 19

I try to suggest to normies the observation that most caused me abandon conventional politics: Non-whites, as a group, are tribal in a way that most whites cannot imagine. Conservatives and old-school liberals hope that we’re all going to become color blind. Instead of that we get, for example, “conservative” black Reps like JC Watts who still wants affirmative action for blacks or “conservative” Hispanic Reps like Marco Rubio who still want massive immigration of their kind. After enough such cases, with few counters, one concludes that non-whites generally put tribe above values and cannot do otherwise.

Vizzini #142620 January 17, 2020 2:27 pm 18

Speaking of immigration and normies, check out the bait-and-switch going on at Taki’s. Taki used to run columns by Tucker Carlson, then it was “collaborative” columns by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel. In the past few weeks, it’s just been Patel.And, now, wonder of wonders, Patel is coming out in favor of an immigration plan that will favor more smart people who look like him, but give them all the rights of native born Americans — strictly for the benefit of native-born Americans, you understand.https://www.takimag.com/article/everyone-is-wrong-on-skilled-immigration/The idea that America already has a sufficient native born talent pool to sustain it for generations — we don’t have to worry our pretty heads with thoughts like that. We have smart people who look like Mr. Patel to think those things through for us — and we need even more of them.

bilejones #142636 January 17, 2020 3:13 pm 9

I noticed that.I used to think highly of the little Greek but I guess that his daughter is responsible for what his site has become.

Vizzini #142672 January 17, 2020 6:17 pm 14

Yeah, and the other day it was Cole railing at us to embrace the porn industry because there’s a lot of Trump supporters there. My feeling on that is if I have to embrace soul-killing degeneracy to win, I’d rather see it all burn.

BadThinker #142683 January 17, 2020 8:00 pm 14

Porn is a huge problem, it might be one of the biggest. The fact it is “free” seems to be a gigantic red flag that it is an op being run on us by the usual suspects…

Yves Vannes #142663 January 17, 2020 4:52 pm 5

Taki’s daughter on her impression of India: “For all India’s flaws, and contradictions, Indians are warm, and unassuming, and not nearly as scary to me as Westerners. Ironically, I felt more trusting of Indians knowing they might be trying to cheat me, than of gringos dressed up as do-gooders. What I liked most about my trip was being surrounded by so many of them. Indians are elegant, and well-dressed. They have a superior sense of style, color, and perfume.”

Vizzini #142666 January 17, 2020 5:19 pm 9

and perfume To cover up that heinous body odor.

Alzaebo #142720 January 18, 2020 1:55 pm 4

Ghee (rancid butter), goat curds, and curry will do that for ya. Oh, and a copious lack of water. Our H1B IT geniuses never figured out plumbing, something the Romans solved in 200 BC.

BadThinker #142743 January 19, 2020 10:07 am 2

Proper ghee is just what we in the west call clarified butter (the fat without the milk sugars). And we make *that* better than india does too.

Alzaebo #142675 January 17, 2020 6:46 pm 8

No wonder poor Taki talks about how much he enjoys his… grandchildren.

Vizzini #142717 January 18, 2020 12:58 pm 10

I’ve never really noticed the “unassuming” part, at least not among the higher caste Indians. The lower caste folk seem all right, because they’re not used to lording it over people. When we were young my wife cleaned houses and one of her clients for a while was a wealthy Indian couple — doctor and lawyer combo, if I remember correctly. Of all her clients, they were the ones who treated her with condescension, like “the help.”Over my many years working in silicon valley tech, I’ve noticed the same condescension in other high status Indians. I find it very off-putting.

Alzaebo #142721 January 18, 2020 2:09 pm 4

I think that explains the educated jihadis or radicals phenomenon. Welcoming whites accept the talented tenth. But, that tenth opens the door to their own lower classes- because that buoys their status within a community of their own.

BadThinker #142744 January 19, 2020 10:09 am 1

They are the Worst (i have to work with many) . Especially because so many of them are complete morons. But the get placed into positions of power because confidence = competence in our insane business world.

Arthur_Sido #142557 January 17, 2020 10:10 am 18

It can be frustrating to try to talk to normies but we such we all were at one time. We will never convert our people in massive numbers under the present age but creating a small, committed core is what we will need to rebuild. It seems more and more people are slowly waking up but a critical juncture might come next week when the 2nd Amendment folks, many who are /ourguys/ hold their demonstration in Richmond, Virginia. It has a lot of promise of a serious show of force but it also has a lot of potential to turn into a total sh!tshow.

Dutch #142546 January 17, 2020 9:00 am 18

This is such an important conversation. One never converts someone by shaming, but by embracing. The Right has a public image of intolerance and violent prejudice. It is important to demonstrate that we are normal people with a different point of view.A very important way of getting people to listen to us is to explain that it is OK to believe different things, and that our culture has always functioned under a tension, because people bring different perspectives and priorities to the table. The trick is to mediate the tension by promoting the idea that different perspectives are OK. The problem we face is that people have been trained to violently reject others who disagree with them on any little aspect of opinions, preferences, or outlook. Differences are OK. From there, respectfully discuss, looping in elements of our thing, in bite-sized chunks. It’s how we get from here to where we want to go, one person at a time, and it is a process, not an event, with most people.If we are actually correct in our thinking and outlooks, and I think we are, the correctness will prevail over time. Our being right about things will show itself and bring people along, if we keep the lines of communication open.

Marko #142548 January 17, 2020 9:18 am 7

Nothing to add. Totally agree.

Paintersforms #142573 January 17, 2020 11:02 am 5

Correct is what creates the most happiness for the greatest number. If you think about it, the implications go deep.

Calsdad #142610 January 17, 2020 1:59 pm 10

Incorrect.You’re talking about democracy , where 51% votes for what they want and gets to tell the other 49% to go screw itself.“Correct” in the case of the United States is something akin to what we had in the original form of the Republic – where power was disbursed and many things were simply removed from the realm of government – and were expected to be “solved” thru non governmental means.I once saw somebody describe the operating principle of the US as “live and let live” – because that is the only way where a disparate people can ever come close to being able to live side by side.This approach was blown apart during the Civil War – as the north tried to impose a way of living on the south. But the country did largely return to leaving each other alone after the war was over. Then the “progressives” started aggregating all power up to the top at the end of the 19th century – and we’ve been headed in one direction ever since.The key here is to remember that there USED TO BE – some things in our society that simply never got to be “voted” on. You were free to do what you wanted – and you were also relatively free to live separately – without there being some ultimate governmental power that could be appealed to – to shut you down.Once the federal government expanded and the states all became just administrative units of the federal leviathan – all of that pretty much ended. One of the better examples of this is abortion – another good example is gay marriage. When the commies decided that going state by state was too much work – they just appealed to the federal power structure and then shoved the decisions down everybody’s throats.

bilejones #142626 January 17, 2020 2:47 pm 6

Agree

Paintersforms #142630 January 17, 2020 3:00 pm 4

Not politically correct.

Mike_C #142627 January 17, 2020 2:50 pm 11

Stockholm, 10pm in an alley: Four feral Somali men and a teenaged Swedish girl. I can think of something that will make 80% of those five people very happy. But i don’t think it’s going to be correct.

Paintersforms #142702 January 17, 2020 11:47 pm 0

Four is not the greatest in a society of millions. Lots of Swedes not happy about it. The Somalis are incorrect.

Vizzini #142609 January 17, 2020 1:58 pm 16

“You’re not harming someone if you say you don’t want to live next to them, or I don’t want to live in that kind of neighborhood. You’re not causing them any harm. In fact, you’re doing them a service, because they don’t want you around them, either. They don’t want to be around people who are not like them, and you don’t want to be around people who are not like you. So why would you force yourself into their world or vice versa?”This may seem reasonable to you, but it represents the fundamental disagreement of the civil rights era. Obviously there are many, many Blacks who say they want to live in White neighborhoods and send their kids to White schools (Yet simultaneously complain that they’re too White. I dunno, don’t ask me to explain that.), and who insist that they are harmed by not being allowed to live in proximity to Whites who don’t want them living there.It will take massive social reconditioning to convince normies — CivNats — that the received wisdom of the past 70 years regarding private discrimination, is wrong.

Tars_Tarkusz #142599 January 17, 2020 1:16 pm 16

I am not a “citizen” of America. I am an American ethnically. Empires have citizens.This talk about citizens being like stockholders or owners in a corporation is flawed fundamentally. It is much more akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason. It is entirely internal.This thinking about citizenship vs national is exactly where the whole thing falls apart. It’s getting a foundational point wrong. We are not citizens, we are members of a nation. We want the nation to succeed because we are the nation.

Paintersforms #142600 January 17, 2020 1:32 pm 10

I completely agree. The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society. To admit America is a nation is to admit the American experiment failed (or was a bait and switch), even though nationalism was always a part of the equation. As wise as the founders were, you wonder sometimes if they really thought it through, or if they were grifters. Not a comforting thought.

Tars_Tarkusz #142603 January 17, 2020 1:43 pm 11

Part of it has to do with the fact that the idea that the Americans were a people was so obvious to everyone at the time that it went without saying. Despite that, they still ended up writing about our being a British people and our British brethren and to ourselves and our posterity. The vast majority of people in America were either British or German and even the Germans were a fairly small minority at the time.I posted a comment that didn’t show up about how all of our public conversations are poisoned with emotional rhetoric and sophistry and this particular subject is no different. They have used word trickery to make “American” so infinitely malleable that it mean absolutely nothing. If an Indian, Native American and African can all be American, it is nothing more than a piece of paper.

BadThinker #142618 January 17, 2020 2:24 pm 3

The FTN guys did a good show about that. The ‘founding fathers’ were far more pozzed than the rest of the Americans, which is why we got the first few immigration and naturalization bills to go our way. http://fashthenation.com/2019/12/ftn-focus-sellout-nation/

Paintersforms #142640 January 17, 2020 3:22 pm 4

They made a lot of compromises for union’s sake. That required the Paines and Jeffersons and that ilk. Not unlike Lincoln and the abolitionists, not unlike today really. Lots of radicals to keep happy. Hanging together with people who want to break up. Makes you wonder if immigration is a way of uniting people against the new boogeyman, because it’s obvious Americans aren’t compatible with each other.

Alzaebo #142654 January 17, 2020 4:07 pm 6

“The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society.” I always wondered why people b*tched about the Enlightenment. Now I get it. I finally get it: “akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason.”

Paintersforms #142670 January 17, 2020 6:03 pm 5

Same here. I still like reason though. Very useful for a lot of things but it has to be balanced by sentiment when it comes to human affairs. Natural science is great, social science not so much. The idea that people can be reasoned into behaving is absurd. At best it takes rhetoric, at worst force.

Stina #142677 January 17, 2020 7:03 pm 6

Reason also breaks down when commonly held assumptions undergirding reason are no longer commonly held assumptions. One guy I was debating couldn’t even understand why he should care about family. At that point, you can’t have a debate. It is sociopathy when you can’t buy into the common values of the society.

3g4me #142694 January 17, 2020 9:31 pm 7

Stina – While doing my occasional skim through the headlines at the Daily Mail, I pointed out to my husband a case where a married White mother of two White children died giving birth to a friend’s child she had volunteered to carry. He agreed that being ‘nice’ to her friend and leaving her own children motherless wasnotGod’s will, and neither was renting out her womb. Society today is pure socipathy, and I want no part of it.

BadThinker #142745 January 19, 2020 10:14 am 1

Alisa Rosenbaum has done as much damage to our society as any Marxist. She told young conservatives that family didnt matter.

Alzaebo #142750 January 19, 2020 12:42 pm 1

OMG Badthinker, you just nuked the libertarian individualist in me. Would I indulge in the family living room when the kids are around? Absolutely Not. That must be the difference.“Adult” vices versus family settings- which takes priority?

CAPT S #142547 January 17, 2020 9:18 am 16

GREAT topic. I just had a local “letter to the editor” published … it was exceptionally difficult to write because the audience is mainstream, they’re strangely proud of their plebeian ignorance, and they don’t take too well to the 2×4-to-head arguments of logic/reason. The topic was refugee resettlement. A lot of the older Christians want to help “those poor people,” having seen one too many UNICEF commercials. A lot of the “conservatives” want to help “those loyal interpreters” that helped the Empire. A lot of the liberals want to help “those poor huddled masses who don’t look like me.” I confined my arguments to those leaning conservative – the majority in this county – and developed analogies that hopefully will light little fires in their brain.However, there’s a growing movement to encourage our county commission to rebuke the Republican governor for signing on for more refugee resettlement. People ARE waking up, albeit slowly. I’m just better with a 2×4 than velvet gloves.

Ant Man Bee #142560 January 17, 2020 10:20 am 30

“The topic was refugee resettlement.”It is very, very, very important to understand…Morally and politically speaking, there is no such thing as “refugee resettlement.” Refugees have no moral or political right to “resettle” ANYWHERE.Refugees, strictly speaking, are the quite temporary victims of a political, military, or environmental crisis in their home countries. They are the recipients of a humanitarian effort to preserve their safety in the face of the specific and temporary crisis. They nominally require “refuge” or “asylum” until, and ONLY until, the temporary crisis has resolved, at which time they must be repatriated to their home countries with all due haste.Refugees must not be “resettled,” they must be kept contained in refugee camps (or “centers,” if you are so Holocaust-brainwashed that the word “camps” reflexively gives you the squirts). The reason for keeping them housed and contained in refugee centers is merely so that we can keep track of them, so that when their civil war or earthquake or unrest finally subsides, they can with all due haste be returned to their beloved homelands, forever grateful for the temporary kindness which was shown to them during their temporary hour of temporary need. They have no right whatsoever to “a new life” or “a fresh start” or “a better life” — they have only the right to temporary safety from a specific instance of trouble or danger. That is what “refuge” means.At present, “refugee” and “asylum seeker” are merely sneaky words for back-door immigration. That is not a right which they can truthfully claim. These “refugees” are not fleeing a tangible crisis; rather, they are fleeing the existential and economic crisis of simply being pathetic violent ugly backwards stupid sh!t-colored monkeys who cannot stand the prospect of spending their entire pathetic lives in the company of their fellow pathetic violent ugly backwards stupid sh!t-colored monkey countrymen, and wish instead to live with the nice White people.Sorry, but the math does not work out. There are simply not enough nice White people to go around. Everyone does not deserve a cookie. Access to White people is not a human right. Go build your own nice countries, monkeymen… after all, you’ve only had 30,000 years to figure it out.

Epaminondas #142575 January 17, 2020 11:04 am 13

You, sir, win this week’s Zman Order of Merit…with oak leaf cluster and diamonds.

Alzaebo #142662 January 17, 2020 4:39 pm 3

Gotta say, Marko won the Internet yesterday with: “Because they don’t want the Jews to subvert their advanced civilization, duh” Too bad the awards aren’t*cough* related *cough*

Wordly Wiseman #142709 January 18, 2020 6:54 am -7

i sincerely hope you never get to experience the joy and happiness of being a refugee.

Drake #142586 January 17, 2020 12:02 pm 15

Not sure if it’s senility or just doing what it takes to win over Democrats in 2020, but Bernie has really changed his tune. He used to be a closed border guy who, like the old-time union leaders, recognized that flooding the country with cheap labor would destroy the incomes of the people he was supposed to represent.Maybe he gave up on the working guys and realized the future of socialism is over-educated, under-employed urbanites.

Dutch #142593 January 17, 2020 12:36 pm 11

Soros told him how it was going to be…

ReturnOfBestGuest #142598 January 17, 2020 1:06 pm 11

Or he’s just another compromised pol. His wife skated in a bank fraud case that I’m sure he’d like forgotten.

Dutch #142739 January 19, 2020 9:31 am 2

Or both 🙂

R. Tobey #142596 January 17, 2020 12:47 pm 14

Long time lurker here. I’ve never seen anyone’s politics be swayed by persuasion. I’ve had conversations with people who are, quite frankly, people who should have been on the lunatic ramp some time ago, but they cannot bring themselves to criticize anything Donald Trump has or has not done.These are folks who were convinced Obama was a Muslim from Kenya, when I tell them that all Trump has done is pass a tax cut they become hysterical. Pointing to how the economy is great, and that unemployment is so low. Never mind that they dismissed those arguments when they were made about Obama. Young people, rambling on about how they’re fine with legal immigration, just not illegal immigration. Nothing has really changed in the past few decades.This is why I think Trump may be a net negative, he’s allowing people to wallow in delusions about where the country is going. These past years have made me realize that all these people are simply partisans who want their “team” to win.Nothing will change until these Republican NPCs see the GOP entirely locked out of power due to demographic changes. Then and only then will they realize what’s happened. You see a preview of this in Virginia, voters who elected Republican tools for generations, then wake up and realize they voted themselves out of power.Prediction: In the next few elections we will see Texas, Georgia, and Florida turn blue. This will effectively lock out the Republicans from ever again being a national power. Then we will have the chance at real change.

Compsci #142646 January 17, 2020 3:45 pm 14

Perhaps they get “hysterical” because you short change Trump. There of course is the tax cut, but also the China trade deal, the a North American trade deal, and the pulling out of the trans-Atlantic Partnership, and the Paris Climate accord. And let’s not forget the stock market, the Supreme Court, and lower Federal Courts. At last count he’s appointed 25% of the Fed Court positions.These may not be all one would want, but they are remarkably better than before with our last three presidents. As far as elimination of illegal immigration and the border wall, both proceed at a steady pace. I live in a large near-the-border town. Actually, a defacto sanctuary city. Biggest scandal of late is the $200K we spent to refurbish a building to hold illegals, however, there are no illegals to hold. The supply completely dried up since they are now immediately deported back to Mexico. Our last few Presidents could not even seem to twist Mexico’s arm enough to keep them from facilitating transport of illegals from their South border to our North border. Now they (MX) even have to take them back into their country when we dump them across the line. I assume MX is dumping the non-Mexican illegals back across their Southern border as well. Note there are several thousand Africans in MX trying to jump the Northern border. They’d be here now if not for the “ineffectual” Trump.That Trump is an anomaly and can not create much in the way of lasting results given demographics and the current traitorous Congress, I do not dispute. But within the system and against his adversaries he’s the best we’ve seen in a couple of decades. He buys us time to organize.

james wilson #142650 January 17, 2020 3:59 pm 3

Small point mostly off topic, Obamas origins, while Hawaiian, are, like Quantum Physics, stranger than we can imagine. That’s why he never discouraged the Kenyan theory or any other.

Lorenzo #142689 January 17, 2020 8:58 pm 0

“This is why I think Trump may be a net negative, he’s allowing people to wallow in delusions about where the country is going.” Who might be a net positive? I know, I know, can’t vote our way out of this and so forth. But what do you recommend we do this coming November, given that Honkeyopia won’t be up and running by then?

3g4me #142693 January 17, 2020 9:25 pm 4

Just answered a call from the RNCC. I let the Nice White Lady give her spiel, and then calmly answered (with no 4 letter words or ethnic slurs) “I think the Republicans are losers who’ve conserved nothing, and I want both parties to go down in flames.” Then I hung up. For me, that’s exercising self control and restraint while making my point.

XY #142561 January 17, 2020 10:28 am 14

I have never seen anyone convinced by anyone over politics ever. Political belief is a subset of physiognomy and there are simply too few people as a percentage of the population with the physiognomy required to have beliefs outside of the norms. The future of this country is South Africa (pessimistic) or Brazil (optimist). Trying to convince people who aren’t already on the path toward dissident politics is a waste of time. The only thing to be done is keep your head down, work and make money, to try to get out of this global capitalist Jewish controlled hellscape.

TheLastStand #142564 January 17, 2020 10:47 am 12

No fate but what we make.

Wkathman #142584 January 17, 2020 11:59 am 9

Wish I could disagree with XY, but I strongly suspect he is right. It’s very difficult not to be black-pilled these days.

Alzaebo #142676 January 17, 2020 6:55 pm 1

Kunstler, today: “Remember this eternal paradox of the human condition: people get what they deserve, not what they expect.”

Mark Taylor #142706 January 18, 2020 5:56 am 5

All of us were convinced somehow. And ethno-centrism is the norm in history. It took a lot of propaganda to get us where we are today. I think we are selling something very easy to buy.

Felix Krull #142718 January 18, 2020 1:04 pm 7

I have never seen anyone convinced by anyone over politics ever. I’m not sure that’s true. You might not witness the heureka-moment directly because in the heat of political discourse, a guy may not want to admit that the opponent has a legitimate point. But when he gets home, he might mull it over and at some point that time-delayed fuse hits the detonator, and by then, maybe he doesn’t even remember what set it burning in the first place. After all, most of us in here weren’t born redpilled.

G Lordon Giddy #142559 January 17, 2020 10:17 am 14

One of the best things to do for normie is just lead good lives and be normal.Then throw out the red pills on occasion.But that does not work if we are ne’er do wells and live the bohemian life styles.We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community.Then when we point people to a Z Man or a VDare or many others out there it is more likely to work.

Lineman #142579 January 17, 2020 11:20 am 9

We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community…Exactly right but if your surrounded by people who aren’t like you or hate you then getting involved in their Community only helps them which is why I advocate for building our own Communities so we are helping and strengthening our own people…

G Lordon Giddy #142617 January 17, 2020 2:22 pm 14

I agree, i used to go help teach inner city youths basic skills until I started noticing not one black male got involved helping their own community. With the exception of one black lady the entire help the inner city youth project was made up of white church people.The black male and the black parents must be willing to help their own and many times they are not.It is too easy to blame whitey.So yes, by getting involved in community I meant a community that we know appreciates us and wants and needs us.

The Right Doctor #142655 January 17, 2020 4:09 pm 15

My wife and I sponsored a child from Kenya whom my wife met on a mission trip when the girl was 12. That was twenty years ago. She went to college and grad school in the US, then went home to teach.She told me that when she was at school (at a Christian college in Florida) she would volunteer to go help the local blacks. Three comments stand out: “They were richer than I’ve ever been.” “I was always the only black person helping.” “No-one would help us. Grown men would watch me struggle with a heavy box” (of gibs).Her son is named after me. Hope I don’t lose my membership here. She is working to make her own home a better place. A lesson for us all.

Alzaebo #142667 January 17, 2020 5:26 pm 5

Nah, ya done some good in the world, Doc.She went back, facing machetes in her future, and she was red-pilled before we were. Your story is what America used to mean.Past is past. I refuse to judge the past by the present, that’s what lefties are mired in.Not your fault the change was forced.I wish we could go back there too.

Alzaebo #142642 January 17, 2020 3:32 pm 4

With Arthur Sido’s Richmond in mind, above, let me repeat bilejone’s great contribution: http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/01/common-sense-resistance.html?m=1 I like this because: 1. It uses what we have.2. It gives normie something to grasp.3. It organizes real political involvement.4. It’s the seed of other fraternal benefit societies. The Christians, for example, are a self-contained Community within the larger “community”, thriving at times because of their focus on the personal, with a loyalty to the greater. Heck, we whites built all of these institutions. Let us resurrect what works and is there, infusing it with new life.

HomerB #142572 January 17, 2020 11:01 am 13

Talking with an elderly relative recently (we’ll call him “Norm”), I (call me “RPM” for Red Pill Man) brought up a red pill info bit: “Did you hear that abortion can take place in New York right up to the moment of birth? The governor here got a round of applause for that one.”Norm: I can’t believe that! That can’t be true!RPM: All true.Norm: Something like that can’t happen in this country. You’ll have to prove it to me!RPM: Check your In Box later.Norm: I intend to!RPM: I sent a nice, Normie source:https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/01/30/new-york-abortion-law-liberal-leaders-celebration-death-life-column/2670049002/SUBSEQUENT TELECON:RPM: Get my email (to an AOL.com email address BTW)?Norm: I Had no idea. No idea. How can that happen? What is with all these commercials, with the black guy and the white girl? Every time I see a commercial, it’s the black guy with the white girl.RPM: Did you know that in New York, more black children are killed by their mothers than actually born? Those liberals sure must hate black people.Norm: I don’t know what is going on.

Mike_C #142590 January 17, 2020 12:29 pm 10

“I can’t believe that! That can’t be true!“ Yeah, I get that quite often. One problem is that no few of the older ones won’t believe something unless it’s in the New York Times (America’s paper of record!) or similar legacy source. That the NYT is run by people who hate us (including Norm) is also not believable to poor Norm. Frustrating.

Lineman #142622 January 17, 2020 2:33 pm 6

I hear you both Brothers…I was at dinner with a bunch of older folks the other night and everyone of them was frustrated with what was going on but instead of what can we do and where can we help it was I’m going to enjoy my time left and hopefully die before it all falls apart and of course the obligatory I’m sorry for you and your kids and our kids and grandkids…I just had to keep my mouth shut because I didn’t know them that well to let them have it…

HomerB #142638 January 17, 2020 3:15 pm 6

My neighbor, recently deceased in his 90’s – was a lineman, Lineman. Before that his ‘office’ was a caboose (when they had those).I too hear this theme, with a dollop of rose colored glasses, denial, and apathy. My wife has spent many hours on the phone fixing a screw up in our health coverage – too many hours to list. My daughter, a sole proprietor in her mid 20’s pays some $500.00 per month for health “insurance” (what they used to call “catastrophic coverage”).Yet when I mentioned my daughter’s cost to my elderly but still sentient elderly mother, she took umbrage. “You know we had to pay too [name]! So yes, there are costs and challenges my Gen x generation has to face – and my Millenial kids – that the old folks just cannot seem to grasp, nor have empathy for. Comes back often to the cliche with walking uphill, snow, all that.I think, sometimes, that the generation of my parents, God bless them – all over divorce, expensive cars, Acapulco vacations and such … and were able to use their homes as piggy banks – have a singularity that starts with them, ends with them.Another anecdote. My elderly father moves far, far away with his 3rd wife – when my kids were 2-3 years old. A number of years ago I am advised that he and his affluent elderly friends at Retirement USA Community – decided they are no longer sending the grandkids their $20.00 birthday checks. Since “they don’t visit often enough…”Now I am hearing the elderly at Retirement USA Community are getting scammed right and left by “grandson in jail needs bail” calls. Fake “IRS” calls. “Paintless Dent removal cash only” guys showing up at the door, noticing your car has a ding … on and on. These same cheapskates are shedding their precious money – surely to better places than their grandkids…So yeah, Red Pilling older people, especially Me Gen, has its challanges. But finite parameters that can still be addressed.

Compsci #142656 January 17, 2020 4:10 pm 4

More interesting would be to know whether they had children. Progeny make all the difference. When you have children, or at least have strong ties to your nation and community, your responsibilities never end.

BadThinker #142747 January 19, 2020 10:23 am 1

The problem is that they’re busy working to break that. Hence “daycare” and other things to separate kids from parenta (and grandparents).

Nicholas Digger Sr. #142678 January 17, 2020 7:14 pm 0

@Lineman,What’s wrong with enjoying the decline? I consider myself to be a dissident’s dissident, but I’m only one person. I will do what I can within my abilities (I’m not tactful and I’m terrible at pissing on someone’s back and convincing them that it’s raining), but I am not optimistic about this country’s future.

HomerB #142629 January 17, 2020 3:00 pm 3

Mike_C, I hear you, it can be frustrating, but also a challenge to know your material. Yes, when the lies of the media are accepted, whole cloth as the prevailing “truth” – and the truth, stated results in doubts – right there you have a chance to move a Normie closer to the pill colored Red. And I am not one to declare that my seniors, or yours should just be waiting for their appointment with the Soylent Green department. They still vote, have disposable income, and impact other people.

The Right Doctor #142659 January 17, 2020 4:19 pm 3

Hey! I have an AOL address. I tell young eye-rollers that I have such because I’m an early adopter: I got email in 1994 when I knew a grand total of two other people who had it. It’s free, it works, what the hell.

Wolf Barney #142552 January 17, 2020 9:47 am 13

I haven’t listened yet, but this is a very important topic. We need numbers and the patriotic, yet misguided Hannity/Rush-folks should be on our side. One thing I try to do is explain the 1965 Hart-Celler Immigration Act, along with the ‘24 Act and the 1790 Naturalization Act. Virtually everyone I talk to has no idea about our immigration history. They think the increase in diversity is solely due to illegal immigration. It’s important to plant the idea in their heads that the ethnic composition of America was very important and we didn’t think diversity was a strength in the not-too-distant past. Quite the opposite, actually.

KGB #142554 January 17, 2020 9:54 am 8

Exactly what I just came here to write. This is a topic on which the DR community needs to really pitch in and help each other. Please share anything you’ve said, any slant you’ve taken, that has proven effective.

Arthur_Sido #142558 January 17, 2020 10:12 am 9

As a Gen Xer growing up in the 80s it can be hard to remember when “diversity” was restricted to a few large cities and the south.

Doofenshmertz Evil Inc. #142614 January 17, 2020 2:06 pm 3

As a fellow Gen-Xer, I was actually witness to the real-time conceptual slippage which led from Diversity 1.0, White Normie Bien-Pensant Edition, to Diversity 3.0, Hate-Fuelled Anti-White Genocide Edition.Here is what I saw happen, beginning with my studies at Most Prestigious University back in the 1980s:1. In an earlier time, prior to the civil rights movement, the segregationist Jim Crow regime was very real, it was very cruel and brutal, and it very much had to be stopped. Thankfully it was stopped. But let us not forget that it was real.2. Even growing up during the 1970s and 80s, it was obvious that even though literal institutional racism (which did in fact once exist, unlike the imaginary version complained about now) had been dismantled, the echoes and side effects of racism were still detectable and noticeable. That is a plain truth that anyone who, like me, grew up in a gritty urban interracial environment should acknowledge. It doesn’t hurt the DR cause to admit plain truths.3. Here is where the hairpin turn comes, and the conceptual slippage begins.Back at Most Prestigious University in the early 80s, there was a frank acknowledgement that the focus and purpose of the place was to train and create the next generation of a ruling class and its power brokers: political, judicial, financial, cultural, international. That is the purpose of Most Prestigious University, and they knew it.To its credit, the university had an active goal of seeking out and cultivating talent for future Masters of the Universe from a “diverse” set of origins: ideally it wasn’t just to be old-money WASPs and grasping UMC Jews, they would take all comers from all backgrounds. I was personally a beneficiary of this largesse; despite being of extraordinarily high academic achievement and all the rest, I was from a dirt-poor working class background, and I could never have gone to the place without deliberate backing from the school itself.4. Now it gets interesting. There was an acknowledgement that although there existed a class of poor white kids who nonetheless had straight A’s and near-perfect SAT scores, there was ALSO a class of poor black kids who were observably smart, but did NOT have straight A’s and near-perfect SAT scores. It was inferred that these bright Black kids missed meeting the criteria only due to the effects of racism in earlier times.It was felt that, given the fact that Most Prestigious University was a straight ticket to the Halls of Power, bright Black kids should not be excluded from their fair share of Power. Society would not accurately reflect everyone’s interests if talented Blacks did not have proportional access to Power as gained from studying and networking at MPU. So, standards for Black kids had to be relaxed in the service of functioning democracy.5. So far, you can see that this was a reasonable and humane position.6. Unfortunately, it turns out to simply be the awful truth that, while there are a lot of Smart Black Kids who meet the criteria, and some who fall short but we’ll wink at that because racism… There just aren’t nearly enough of them to go around. On any given day there are way, way, way more brilliant poor White kids than there are brilliant poor Black kids. I know, I was watching.7. The “diversity” problem starts here. Instead of just admitting the plain fact that there are just a lot more smart White kids than smart Black kids, the TPTB decided that the power structure should be diluted of Whites, for the sole sake of making it less White. In other words, the original argument of trying to include Blacks turned into trying to exclude Whites, simply because the power structure was Just Too White.So, Moslems, Hispanics, Pajeets, Chinese and various assorted Mystery Meats were admitted to compensate for the fact that there were not enough talented Blacks to fill in the Non-White role.As Mister Blake once put it, “The Road to Hell is paved with good Intentions.”

3g4me #142690 January 17, 2020 9:04 pm 9

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.: You start from a flawed premise or presupposition which you state as absolute truth (Jim Crow was brutal, institutional racism was still noticeable and palpable in the 70s, etc.). I reject both those assertions. I went through school in the 60s and 70s and finished college in 1980. I dealt with public schools integrated by purportedly ‘midddle-class’ black kids. I saw those purportedly smart black women at college. Again, I reject your assertions.

Alzaebo #142704 January 18, 2020 5:51 am 2

The real story here is the bait-and-switch by Most Prestigious University.

jkloi #142726 January 18, 2020 5:50 pm 1

I also reject assertions 3-5. This was lying and ultimately cheating smart kids due to the fact that our education leaders rejected teaching and instead went through to manipulation. There was nothing good or decent in any of it.

FashGordon #142549 January 17, 2020 9:20 am 13

This type of thinking is what our enemies fear the most. It’s why they censor anyone even remotely capable of pushing the overton window towards our side. This is definitely the way forward, it’s why they worked so hard to stymie us during the last big push by promoting fifth column people within our ranks to create dissension and infighting. We need to quietly increase our numbers until an opportunity presents itself that we can exploit for an actual big gain in changing the mindset of the masses. We had the bandwagon effect in 2016 and that was a massive boon but it also created a weakness in that we felt a lot stronger than we actually were. We had a lot of support but much of that was tepid support of a weak resolve that fell away after the Charlottesville fiasco. I think we need to quietly convert until we get to the point where we no longer need to hide our power levels because there are so few of our people still trapped inside the matrix that they will be unable to black pill people and gaslight us with media campaigns because so few people are susceptible to their bugman propaganda apparatuses anymore. I think talking points like Epstein is a good starting point for normie friendly conversations. A lot of people you think are normies aren’t even really normies, they are just too scared and gaslit to say what they really think.

Compsci #142550 January 17, 2020 9:36 am 7

Yep, there’s a lot of “I Know A Good One” out there, but note that using that rebuttal presupposes/concedes there are bad ones out there. From there the argument is a matter of degree/proportions/causes among racial groupings. Baby steps.

Alzaebo #142621 January 17, 2020 2:30 pm 10

Baby steps of the Overton window, aka shifting the frame of the acceptable. My big fails are when I don’t let someone show off *their* smarts, letting them think out loud explaining to me. Bad listener.

Michaeloh #142701 January 17, 2020 10:47 pm 7

Regarding the “I know a good one” i have had good luck making the pit bull argument; you know that most dog bites human attacks in the US are caused by pit bulls though they are only a fraction of all dogs; say you have a neighbor/coworker/sibling etc with a lovable, gentle pit bull; is it wise to allow the grand children to play in a back yard with pit bulls?

TheLastStand #142567 January 17, 2020 10:51 am 5

Another thing that helps our numbers is the fact that once you come over to our side, our adversaries treat you as irredeemable. Besides, just like the arrow in the FedEx logo, once you notice the propaganda, you cannot unnotice it.

Vizzini #142613 January 17, 2020 2:06 pm 7

There’s an arrow in the FedEx logo? I’m failing this eye test. It’s just Fed in white butted up against Ex in orange…. ETA: Oh, FFS, I just saw it. I am now a case study.

Alzaebo #142619 January 17, 2020 2:26 pm 3

Ha! Quick quiz, everbody, where is the disappearing arrow in the Fedex logo? Spoiler: it’s between the ‘e’ and the ‘x’.

Doofenshmertz Evil Inc. #142652 January 17, 2020 4:05 pm 4

Duh. Now take a closer look at the Amazon logo, with its curved arrow linking A to Z. Good persuasive unconscious visual design really is worth its weight in gold. Both El Lissitzky and Fritz Lang knew that. Take note, dissenters. Cultivate your talent.

sirlancelot #142715 January 18, 2020 12:14 pm 12

Your last comment really resonated with me Mr Z man. Met a woman years ago . She was pretty, we shared cultural similarities, had similar interests and both interested in starting a family.After a couple of months the topic of children came up and she said it would be nice to raise a family, but the children wouldn’t be racist like I was !Needless to say this killed any idea of making this woman my wife or the mother of my children. She was upset when we eventually broke up.Later found out she had previously dated a black man . He had beat her to the point she filed a restraining order and assault charges. Despite all this she remained an apologist for the black race.We could have raised white children, promoted the race, culture,etc. Yet she chose to sabotage the relationship over some propaganda that had been fed to her over a lifetime.Ours is an uphill battle. Not a very religious man but I do pray for our people.

Yves Vannes #142551 January 17, 2020 9:46 am 11

I’ve found playing the race card by embracing the diversity card to be effective with normies:“I actually support affirmative action. In an increasingly multicultural society group interest organizations seem to be a natural thing. Here in this (city, town, university, high school) we have many organizations that are organized around group identity and they pursue the interests of that particular group and their position in the (society, town, university). There are local black interest groups and local Hispanic group interests, as well as national interests. There are similar organizations for Asians and Jew and all sorts of other ethnic and varied identity groups.Whites should also be protecting and pursuing their interests like every other group.All of these groups pursue their interests as a group. We play the game and compete as individuals. And we wonder why we seem to continually lose ground. In a multicultural society whites have group interests just like any other group and we have a right and a duty to organize around those interests and to protect those interests just like everyone else.”The only push back I’ve ever gotten was…”but the “melting pot”. :“Well like the economy we have a mixed form of assimilation, some common interests and some group ethnic interests. We need to pursue both.”Get them thinking in terms of Our Group and nature will over time do the rest.

Whitney #142553 January 17, 2020 9:53 am 14

That’s good. I also like saying White Community instead of white people. It seems to resonate. And for some weird reason voice text capitalizes White Community but not white people.

Doofenshmertz Evil Inc. #142555 January 17, 2020 10:00 am 6

“I also like saying White Community instead of white people.” Good idea. How about also talking about the divergent interests of the Crime Community and the Crime Victim Community? Or, more sharply, the Rape Community and the Rape Victim Community?

Yves Vannes #142568 January 17, 2020 10:54 am 4

One little step at a time.

Alzaebo #142624 January 17, 2020 2:37 pm 2

More good framing, DE.Whitney’s just given us the key to translate Identity into normie. Using “Community” short-circuits their defensive “don’t label me!” reaction, too.

Yves Vannes #142569 January 17, 2020 10:55 am 5

Good point. White Community sounds better.

Alzaebo #142623 January 17, 2020 2:35 pm 3

Oooh. White Community.I really, really likee. Plus, that’s speaking in Leftie, the official language of our empire.

Penitent Man #142671 January 17, 2020 6:05 pm 6

The occasional slipped in “our people” alongside “white” when discussing race seems to be helpful. You can actually watch the person go from slightly confused or uncomfortable on the first slipped in “our people” to not noticing it after several tactical insertions of it.

HomerB #142576 January 17, 2020 11:13 am 10

Another tack I take goes like this:RPM: Don’t you think that bringing in people from other countries based on their “best and brightest” is immoral?Normie: We only want the best here!RPM: Yeah, but think of it. By taking their “best and brightest”, aren’t we actually draining their countries of the very people that are needed to make it a better place to live?Normie I hadn’t thought of it that way.RPM: So we take away jobs for American kids, hand them to the “best and brightest” foreigners. While also burying those same kids in debt for a college degree that is not even as valuable as a high school in the past.Normie: You know when I graduated [old NYC high school] I went right to work. You know, I know [person] that co-signed their grandkids loans, the kid didn’t even finish and stopped paying. Now the [person] is on the hook for it! And the grandkid doesn’t even talk to them!RPM: Now, these people are fleeing these countries because they are bad places to live, right?Normie: Of course! I don’t blame them!RPM: And we want to take the very people from those places that can make them better places to live? Just like pioneers made this a great country, always working hard so the next generation could have it better, make it a better country.Normie: I have a guy that does my [service] that is so hard working.RPM: And so that hard working person wouldn’t make his own country better? Maybe he is a best and brightest. Can you see, at least, my point that draining other countries of their “best and brightest” make those countries poorer. And that is may be seen as immoral? Not to mention taking away jobs your grandkids need to pay off those student loans.Normie: Hmmm….

Paintersforms #142563 January 17, 2020 10:46 am 10

Simple , relatable, concrete arguments. Why get married if not starting a family? Gay couples don’t make babies. Babies are the future. Therefore gay marriage makes no sense. Civil union for benefits but marriage has more important purpose. Are you glad your mother didn’t abort you? Etc.Statistics also useful as long as you don’t get lost in them. Helps suburban normie realize most diversity or weirdness he sees is on the screen. Also car accidents kill as many as guns. Then about 2/3 guns deaths are suicide, most others are cops/criminals. Normie doesn’t get scared driving yet he’s far more likely to die in a car than a mass shooting.Cause/effect also. One that’s been effective for me: women got to vote, within a decade we got FDR/New Deal. Convincing to conservative men, even some women.And of course first rule of rhetoric is know your audience. Understand their lives, frame your arguments in ways they can relate to.

Exile #142686 January 17, 2020 8:33 pm 9

I’m still pretty useless from a day-and-a-half of travel and 11 hours worth of jet-lag, so I’ll spray & pray for a second before I crash again.With due respect for optics, it’s equally important for us to preserve our authenticity. I don’t think we’re going to fool anyone into being based. You don’t have to use a sledgehammer and should strive for presenting as a balanced, stable person. But do it with respect for truth and honesty about what you believe. We don’t have anything to apologize for and acting like we do is its own form of bad optics. Be mindful of both the edge-lord mistakes of WN 1.0 and the converso me-too-ism of Conservative, Inc. Find the balanced third position between them.

Ifrank #142643 January 17, 2020 3:39 pm 9

This is crucial. Early on in a conversation you must make sure that your interlocutor understands that the MSM is untrustworthy. You can have daily 30 minute persuasive conversation with someone, but if they then go back to school, read the Times, or watch television, all your efforts will be undone. They must be shown clearly and concretely that what the media is providing to them is propaganda.

Ifrank #142710 January 18, 2020 7:45 am 1

It would be helpful to have good books to recommend, also.

ExNativeSon #142577 January 17, 2020 11:14 am 9

Great topic, great comments, and good luck. I found it interesting that Z talked about looking at this topic as you would if you were a college teacher holding class. As a former college teacher and seeing what was occurring rapidly in my last years in academia I found the analogy amusing to say the least.Unlike many of the people here I know few if any libertarians or civic nationalists. I was and the people I know/knew are left wing and I have simply turned people against me with any discussion of any thing of importance. Mostly now I just keep my head low. That is why I come to sites like this to “interact” with dissidents even if it is anonymously online. Thank you for being so kind to let me participate.I travel out of state to visit a few old friends who I have reconnected with who are dissidents and that is the only time I feel like I can breathe. That being said I do think I have gotten a few people to at least partially think and I shut up when I think this has happened and drop it. In the Seinfeld TV show there was a running gag about loser George not knowing how to shut up and walk away when he had one of his few victories. I am loser George in this scenario.

Dutch #142581 January 17, 2020 11:39 am 7

We’ve all been there, more or less. Work on bringing others, one by one, out of the suffocating environment they live in today, as you have lived. It is rewarding work, even if you can’t share what you are doing with most of the people you have contact with. Doing the right thing is it’s own reward.

Mike_C #142594 January 17, 2020 12:37 pm 9

“not knowing how to shut up and walk away when he had one of his few victories” Yeah, that’s a tough one. I’ve started thinking of these sorts of conversations as analogous to opening a container that you don’t want to destroy. That is, the tool you’re using is a wedge, and you’re opening the container by degrees. Patience and self restraint. The info dump-turned-rant (done a few of those, sorry to admit – leaves the other party looking at you wide-eyed) is a sledge hammer. Satisfying to wield, but destroys too much.

Alzaebo #142644 January 17, 2020 3:42 pm 3

Good stuff, Mike C.“opening a container that you don’t want to destroy.”

My_Comment #142681 January 17, 2020 7:28 pm 8

Important Z Man post. The lack of interest in building connections with normies was a glaring weakness of the alt right. It was clear that they were doomed to failure. Their obsession with hating the boomers who should have been a great source of allies (even if only 10 percent of boomers became sympathetic,) was clearly a missed opportunity.The desire to spend your time attacking potential allies rather than build bridges probably comes out of internet culture and shit posting.The solution involves dealing with each other face to face while building communities, something the Jews feel threatened by and will work to squash but we have to find a way to do anyway.

Compsci #142695 January 17, 2020 9:32 pm 10

You grow a young movement through addition. Ideological shit-testing is subtractive in nature. We spend an excessive amount of time here bickering as to who is most pure, rather than expanding the base.

My_Comment #142713 January 18, 2020 10:07 am 4

The Dissident Right unfortunately borrows some of the playbook from the SJW. We are constantly virtue signaling about purity. We need to start moving civnats our way and liberals towards being civnats.

Juri #142734 January 19, 2020 4:24 am 2

Ramping up the worthless allies is burden not benefit. Boomers woke up 50 years ago when white flight begun and they have done nothing in 50 years and never will. All they wan is their comfort lies. Waking up those people is like alcoholic wife. She tries to save something what is not save-able.

Compsci #142740 January 19, 2020 9:52 am 1

Juri. All potential allies were at one time, worthless. They grow with the proper care. These “allies” come from many different paths/sources. However, we spend a lot of time discrediting those sources. That is counter productive. When the tIme/nurturing is right, those people in and of themselves will abandon those sources and realize the right path for them is here.Example, your all-encompassing disparaging of “Boomers”. How does that signal to such folk that this is a group within which to find knowledge and refuge? Well, it doesn’t. What it signals is that “Boomers” are not welcome here. That’s subtractive not additive. Counter productive. All you accomplished was to make yourself “feel” better and virtue signal to your fellow resentful “anti-boomers”.Meanwhile, Jarad Taylor at AmRen (a boomer for the cause) has a video out explaining what folk have to do to support White homeland efforts. He ends with asking folks—you know, Boomers and such—to consider legacies in wills as well as donations.

Juri #142748 January 19, 2020 11:14 am 1

Mr Jared has talked 40 years without any positive consequences whatsoever. Amren is very good example how useless talking looks like. When are those masses awakened by Amren last 40 years. West got tens of millions immigrants last 40 years but nobody can see tens of millions pro whites.

Tars_Tarkusz #142582 January 17, 2020 11:54 am 8

The US has de Facto hate-speech laws, at least in some cases. Instead of charging you with hate-speech, they charge you with a more generic crime like disturbing the peace or harassment and then add a hate-crime enhancement to the minor BS crime they can charge you with, which of course, upgrades it to a felony. If you call someone the magic word, well, you are harassing that person and since you are motivated by “hate,” you get a hate-crime “enhancement.”

Compsci #142653 January 17, 2020 4:06 pm -1

All hate crimes work the way you described. They are the same as domestic violence. One must have an underlying criminal infraction. So, if two persons are having a loud argument, you have disturbing the peace—but if they are in a domestic relationship, you have “domestic violence”.No one goes to jail for saying what they think here, only for crossing the boundaries wrt to a crime that can normally be charged to anyone who keeps their mouth shut or has no demonstrable racial animosity. This is different than say in the UK and other countries. You can be charged with hurting some minority’s feelings and nothing else need be proved. Broadly termed, they outlaw disturbing the peace among the races. 😉The above of course does not hold to extra-judicial punishment by our SJW types who will attempt to inflict harm on anyone they think deserves such. Nor do I argue that race based hate crimes are not more frequently applied to Whites than minority’s.

Tars_Tarkusz #142660 January 17, 2020 4:30 pm 2

That is why I said they are de facto and not de jure.

Compsci #142696 January 17, 2020 9:47 pm 0

Perhaps I misunderstand, but my interpretation was that you implied that such crimes (hate) can be charged at whim. The only ones I see charged/proven directly link back to stupidity on the part of the perpetrator wrt evidence of racial malice intent. That evidence is most often is provided out of the mouth of the perp. Barring that, enhanced sentencing is a hard thing to argue in mixed race crime. I don’t believe in hate crimes, period. One should only be responsible/punished for their actions as prosecutors and judges are not mind readers.

Tars_Tarkusz #142714 January 18, 2020 11:12 am 4

Well, you are right in the sense that if you upload a YT video that says muzzies suck, they can’t really do anything to you, whereas in the UK they can throw in jail for it.The problem is that outside of such circumstances, the police can charge you with a BS crime that you didn’t really commit, like harassment and then add on the hate-crime enhancement. I end up seeing examples of it a lot. Of course, they only go in one direction, against whites.Hate crimes are complete bullshit and by any reasonable interpretation of US law are unconstitutional.

Serenderpity #142719 January 18, 2020 1:38 pm 2

Compsci ‘s a little naive.In the UK and other countries you generally recieve a fine and not jail time.US you lose your job so…

BadThinker #142746 January 19, 2020 10:21 am 1

And you are blackballed from other jobs.

Major Hoople #142680 January 17, 2020 7:27 pm 7

At some point, the reality of becoming a minority in your own country is going to sink in, and the realization is not going to be pleasant. In NY, for example, we’ve got the Democrats doing everything they can to disarm white people, and at the same time, pushing the limits on letting criminals out without bail.At times I might despair of white people seeing the light. Yet they will, because they will have no choice, and those who refuse to see, won’t be survivors. We are fated to live as an “angry, resentful, nativist minority” as one garbage “leftist modernist” writer puts it.Hey, I’m good with that. We will still be a largest ethnic bloc, and guess what a very large, angry and resentful minority can do? Put away your black pills.TimNY

BadThinker #142565 January 17, 2020 10:49 am 7

Have not listened yet, but how do you get past the ‘I love the military and police’ attitude of so many. There are so many normiecons that are *proud* that their sons and daughters are dying in mercenary tribal wars that our tribe has no business being involved in (and proud that they themselves ‘served’ in Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afganistan, etc). None of those wars defended the American people and made America safer…

Paintersforms #142570 January 17, 2020 10:55 am 8

I’d stress needless loss of life. Nobody serves to die for a bad cause. Avoid criticism of military/police. Keep in mind most are decent people. Much championing is because of lefty hatred.

BadThinker #142571 January 17, 2020 11:00 am 4

But the Hannitycons are insistent that they *are dying for a good cause*. To them, fighting Persia and Babylon is pretty much a Biblical injunction, and if not, it’s to help ‘bring the light of freedom to the world’ or ‘to civilize the barbarians’…

Paintersforms #142580 January 17, 2020 11:22 am 5

Ask the soldiers about that. Or put normie on the spot and ask him why it is. Ask for a name whose life was worth it. If you can’t convert there’s always the third party listening.

Calsdad #142631 January 17, 2020 3:02 pm 4

I just go straight to questioning their patriotism. Since they obviously don’t understand jack shit about the intentions of the people who founded this country. Like I said above: tell them to go find a revolutionary war soldier’s grave – and take a piss on it. And also tell them to stop telling me how much of a patriot and “constitutional conservative” you are – because you are not. Might as well drive the shiv in right to the core.

Calsdad #142628 January 17, 2020 2:57 pm 6

I did this to a younger military vet a number of years back – who had “served” while the US was involved over in Yugoslavia – and just couldn’t kick the mental conditioning that the US’s role in the world was to be a global policeman.There was an online argument going on about whether or not we (the US) should continue to be involved overseas (Mideast) and continue to supply massive amounts of “foreign aid” – to Israel.If I remember correctly – we were coming up on the July 4th holiday. He kept arguing about how “only the US can prevent foreign fires” because of the shit-show he saw over in the Balkans. And he was still fully immersed in the spreading democracy bullshit. And he kept calling himself a patriot.I responded by telling him that July 4 was coming up in a couple of weeks, and in the location we were in (MA) – pretty much every single town had a graveyard right around the center of town – full of old headstones – where you could relatively easily find one of a man who had fought during the Revolutionary War, what he should do – since I HIGHLY doubted that those men had fought so that the US could engage in endless wars overseas for the benefit of foreign countries – was to wake up early on July 4 – go down to one of those cemeteries – find an appropriate tombstone – and take a piss on that TRUE patriot’s grave.He was PISSED.But…….. this same person is still active on one of the forums I go to occasionally – and he is now solidly against US intervention overseas and the never ending succession of US optional wars.So yeah – you don’t always have to kid glove the situation to make a difference. Some times you just have to leave the flaming bag of poo on the front step and have a little bit of patience.

Paintersforms #142641 January 17, 2020 3:30 pm 7

Right. The long occupation of the Middle East has made a lot soldiers rethink things.

Alzaebo #142637 January 17, 2020 3:14 pm 11

Find agreement.“I wish they were defending OUR border”.

3g4me #142692 January 17, 2020 9:13 pm 5

BadThinker: That’s a hard one. My husband (army brat) has really done an about face, because we keep bombarding him with examples of “official force” arbitrarily used against Whites. I just showed him the Daily Mail blurb today about the White guys arrested for badthink re the Virginia rally. He wanted to know who arrested them – “authorities.” He snorted at “specific charges sealed by the judge Joi Taylor.” He still retains residual “muh rule of law” leanings, but he’s learning really fast.

Mark Taylor #142707 January 18, 2020 6:02 am 4

Argue the politics of the wars. Who’s benefitting, who’s paying the price. Don’t say the soldiers are mercenaries or something like that. Those guys think they are doing what they should. In many ways their patriotism is used against them.

HamburgerToday #142607 January 17, 2020 1:56 pm 6

Agreed. Persuasion entails working from where the audience already is to coax/seduce them to move closer to your own.

Tars_Tarkusz #142597 January 17, 2020 1:04 pm 6

The whole legal vs illegal immigration bs is just an example of how public dialogue has become infested with sophistry/emotional rhetoric. There is very little you can discuss in public when it comes to just about any political topic that is not just overwhelmed with sophistry and emotional rhetoric.It is absolutely impossible to discuss a subject with somebody who has embraced the sophistry. You cannot talk about a subject with someone who has been manipulated with emotion. You are never talking about the thing. You are talking about how someone is made to feel about the thing. It is absolutely everywhere in our public dialogue. It infects every single policy you could think of.It’s not just the left either. The right is every bit as emotionally invested in their positions as any leftist, as are centrists.The whole illegal vs legal immigration is nothing but emotion. People who break the law are supposed to just be arrested. Nobody ever tries to equivocate eating food they paid for vs eating stolen food. Nobody would ever say that people who eat stolen food are better Americans than Americans who eat non-stolen food. It is such a retarded concept that it is difficult to analogize. This is even putting aside the fact that you cannot change your ethnicity and that these people will NEVER be American.Not to mention all of the euphemisms and slight of hand word trickery that goes on. We cannot even say illegal alien. NO! They are “undocumented workers” Illegal alien just sounds so much worse. No human is illegal they will tell us. Then we get the lecture about our forefathers and how they weren’t illegal, of course, leaving out how that story ends with the almost total destruction of the people who were already here.

Vizzini #142729 January 18, 2020 7:24 pm 5

Hey, Zman! Winning! “If you are one of those small-minded people who thinks that Baltimore only excels in murder, rioting, racial segregation, and rodent infestations, you need to broaden your horizons—CDC data says that Charm City has the highest rate of STD infections in the entire nation!” — from Taki’s Magazine’s latest “The Week that Perished” column.

James OMeara #142605 January 17, 2020 1:50 pm 5

“All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.”There’s something to that, but then… what about Trump? Outside of the impeachment nonsense, he really is what the Left says he is: an orange haired dirtbag. From Spy MAGAzine to Howard Stern to WWF, he spent 40+ years in the media as a freak (unlike, say, Bill Clinton in 1992). He’s the most un-evangelical person in America (remember his “Two Corinthians” gaffe? He’s probably never read the Bible in his life), yet they love him. Why? The voters had no other choice in 2016. When there’s a 20 car pile up ahead, you don’t have the luxury of choosing the nicest on or off ramp — or in Trump’s case, a dirt road leading to a ditch.

c matt #142587 January 17, 2020 12:19 pm 5

Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but a while back Z-Man made a good point in another one about immigration red-pilling. It went something like the normie saying wouldn’t it be great if we had universal health care? The DR response would be “yeah, that would be great, but then we would have to do something about all this immigration – we can’t have both.”The tactic being to take one of their cherished positions, and point out how that is incompatible with another cherished position. With diversity, I think one that might work would be to say sure, diversity is great if it is voluntary, but you can’t force it without giving up freedom of association. Or, if diversity is required then you can’t have quaint things like “China town” or “Little Italy” where all those cool ethnic restaurants and shops are – you would have to ruin the unique character of places like that. Hopefully that could plant the idea that like a China Town or Little Italy, having a few little Mayberrys around isn’t such a bad thing either. If they recoil with you are just trying to bring back “separate but equal” simply point out that “equal does not mean ‘the same,’ and in fact China towns and little Italys do more to preserve diversity.This is all speculative and untested, just some thoughts, and probably more geared toward normielibs than normiecons since that is what I am more surrounded by. But I think it would work well with anyone whose idea of diversity is great ethnic restaurants.

Alzaebo #142647 January 17, 2020 3:50 pm 1

“like a China Town or Little Italy, having a few little Mayberrys around isn’t such a bad thing either.” A tweeter, “Rich”, calls that “7-11 nationalism”, as in, remember when you and your gal could go to a 7-11 for a Coke at 2 am on a Saturday night, and it wasn’t a perilous adventure at risk of life and limb.

Vegetius #142749 January 19, 2020 12:19 pm 4

sometimes we overthink things white men can volunteer two or three days a month to be a big brother for a white boy without a father teach a boy to throw a football or catch a fish or change a tire then go from there

Tars_Tarkusz #142601 January 17, 2020 1:35 pm 4

I always look forward to the music at the end of the show. But this week I am rather perplexed by the choice. Omnia is the musical personification of internationalism. Their songs are sung in English, French, Breton, Finnish, German, Dutch, Swedish, Latin, and Hindi, and play Celtic harp, mouth harp, hurdy-gurdy, bodhrán, guitar, bouzouki, didgeridoo, flutes of all kinds, bagpipes, various drums and percussion instruments.(from Wikipedia). Of course they really need to harp on the Persian and Indian parts.Interesting sounding song, but I am sure the members of this band would love to see us exiled or otherwise out of the equation.

Alzaebo #142657 January 17, 2020 4:12 pm 2

Whew! The Zman must be cleverly trolling his more astute, cosmopolitan listeners. Make Og’s bony, protruding brow furrow in thought. Og lost. Og not know.

Whitney #142592 January 17, 2020 12:33 pm 4

You know, the use of the term ‘echolalic babbling’ to describe the Civic Nat talking points is the most apt phrase I have seen in awhile. I’m just going to post the definition of echolalia for anyone that doesn’t know it meaningless repetition of another person’s spoken words as a symptom of psychiatric disorder.

Alzaebo #142649 January 17, 2020 3:55 pm 1

Echo chamber– of an imagined Community. We hoot and call, the response will tell us if we’re amidst sympathetic allies or surrounded by strangers. The lonely mating call of the vanishing Normie, in other words. Avast, the Left offers street orgies and hookups. Eeking and ooking will suffice.

David Davenport #142730 January 18, 2020 10:45 pm 3

Z man, you hurt Ted Beale’s feelings. What did you do that upset him?

BadThinker #142741 January 19, 2020 9:57 am 3

Probably called him a Gamma.

Mark Stoval #142703 January 18, 2020 4:52 am 3

This has been a very good thread with a lot of good opinions, stories, suggestions, and strategies. Well done my dissident friends.The most important topic is how to get the “normal” white people to see that they must promote the interests of their ethnic group just as every non-white ethnic group does; AND that we are under attack on all fronts.We also have to address the fact that whites build the modern industrial society and that there is a fear that without whites the others might not be able to keep the industrial society functional. If not, what then?

Yman #142738 January 19, 2020 8:33 am 2

Enemy know how video material can be powerful since scientist found that Humans often confuse video with realitywe can use same method that enemy usedunlike sudden “red pilling” might cause be shunned, it’s wise move we can suggest that share experience with some old video material like Roman holiday or spellboundsomething like this:https://vimeo.com/343245211If people bored old white films full of talent, intelligent, beautiful performance and asking more about narcissist wearing cloakThat person won’t change political views or way of life, and you just dodged bullet like revealing your power level

Mark Stoval #142705 January 18, 2020 5:51 am 2

The Most World’s Important Unanswered Historical Question: “What Changed in 1800?”https://www.garynorth.com/public/7817.cfmThe economic historian Gregory Clark summarizes a remarkable fact.. . . there is no sign of any improvement in material conditions for settled agrarian societies as we approach 1800. There was no gain between 1800 BC and AD 1800 — a period of 3,600 years. Indeed the wages for east and south Asia and southern Europe for 1800 stand out by their low level compared to those for ancient Babylonia, ancient Greece, or Roman Egypt.Then, around 1800, this all changed. Economic growth began: about 2% per annum, compounded. That brought our world into existence.—> White people did this. That is a fact that the damn SJWs can deny all day but it remains a fact.

Alzaebo #142606 January 17, 2020 1:56 pm 2

I awoke this morning thinking, “the Zman is a historian”, one who can describe the sweep of history as it occurs. And we all like seeing our place in history.

dhill #142754 January 20, 2020 8:57 am 1

I have recently stumbled upon Chriss Voss, an FBI negotiator. He does an amazing job talking about persuasion. Z Man, by the very nature you use one of his tricks “the late night FM DJ voice”. There is a lot to learn from him regardless of the fight at hand.

Juri #142735 January 19, 2020 4:40 am 1

It is impossible to talk with Normie. Normie does not think, Normie is only scared. You may invent some weasel words and scare Normie with them, so Normie is afraid and feels bad when he is not cooperating but Normie will never think. Left knows this well and that is why left is winning.Best Normie can do is is develop to Yesbut. Yesbut is best part of Normies . Yes, I agree with you in private. But I still vote for mass immigration, because being racist make me feel bad and when comes out that I am anti immigration, I can lose some Facebook friends who I never met in real life.Most successful pro white countries are Poland and Hungary and they do not have intellectual talk whatsoever. They have drunk football fans with torches and they roaring about hanging traitors not explaining why mass immigration is bad. They know that only thing what put Normie in action is fear and only question is who is scaring Normie, Left or Nazis. No arguments needed whatsoever.

dhill #143029 January 21, 2020 8:29 am 0

You have to overcome your addiction to “yes”. Strive for an informed “no” and cause cognitive dissonance. Plant an idea that will short-curcuit normies any time they watch the mainstream. Make it work toward your goals. Learn some persuasion. I already recommended Chriss Voss, this guy is brilliant. We need to learn “tactical empathy”, after all the truth will prevail. By the way, greetings from Poland. I don’t think our nationalist protesters are particularly persuasive. I find Krzysztof Bosak much more convincing.

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