Answering War Hysteria

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According to just about everyone, we are either at war with Iran or about to go to war with Iran. The droning of the Iranian general at the Baghdad airport has unleashed a lot of pent up war hysteria, as well as anti-war hysteria. The neocons are dreaming of another pointless war in the Middle East. The paleocons are warning about how the Iranians will enact vengeance. The anti-Zionists are completely off their leash, making the usual claims about who is really behind all of this.

The truth is, we are not at war with Iran, at least not a conventional war. We have been in a cold war with them since the 1970’s. The temperature rises and falls as domestic politics requires, but it never gets too hot. The main reason for that is Iran is run by fairly competent people. Iran is also much more cohesive than the neighboring countries in the region. Persians have a strong sense of identity that transcends the tribal alliances that dominate in the rest of the Middle East.

Of course, the Iranians now have important ties with Russia and China. The Russians are helping them build nuclear capability and the Chinese are providing them with conventional military technology. Both countries are in bed with the Iranians because Iran sits on large oil and gas reserves. China is starving for oil and the Russians are a player in Europe because they control the gas supplies. Those are strong incentives to prevent a US – Iran war.

At the same time, America is in no position to launch another war in the Middle East, at least not a ground war. Trump can call in drone strikes and maybe air strikes from subs and carriers, but that would be very risky. To get a ground force together would require prepping the public and getting Congress to sign off on it. It would also mean talking Trump into something he has opposed. War is always bad politics. In an election year where his prospects are even money at best, that’s a foolish gamble for him.

History is full of examples where countries bluffed themselves into a war that neither side wanted, so it is not completely out of the question. Israel could blow something up and the neocons running the State Department could talk Trump into believing the Iranians did it. Some rogue element in Iran could do something foolish. Then there are the many guerrilla and terrorist groups supported by Iran. One of them could do something provocative and set us on a path to war.

Even so, the odds are very low that this current crisis lasts more than a week, other than some hotly worded tweets from Trump and bellicose rants from Iran. This raises a few questions. One is why the anti-war people have flipped out as if they were just waiting for a reason to get back in the streets. They were not going crazy when Trump lobbed missiles into Syria. They were silent when Venezuela was on the brink. It’s as if someone flipped a switch and reactivated the anti-war people.

The bigger question is why Trump has decided to take this step. It’s clear he has no interest in starting a war. He has been trying to get troops out of the Middle East for three years now. Taking out this general is a high risk move that could lead to terrorist attacks this year. The White House is warning Congress that retaliation in the next weeks is a possibility. Even if a full blown shooting war with Iran is unlikely, it does not mean there will be no fallout from this venture.

One possibility is that Trump is just dumb and he got bamboozled by the neocons into attacking Iran. They cooked up a story about how this general was plotting a terror attack and he fell for it. This is popular with the anti-Zionists. They believe the neocons are like super-villains, able to hypnotize politicians. They have finally figured out how to maneuver Trump into going along with their schemes. It’s possible. The distinguishing feature of Trumps’ time in office has been incompetence.

The trouble with this theory is that Trump has been pretty good at dodging the neocon war plots thus far. This is not the first time they cooked up a plot to attack Iran. He has even joked about guys like John Bolton wanting to bomb the world. He also avoided the various traps they set with Syria. Trump may not be very good at governing, but he seems pretty well aware of how the neocons operate. He has been as good at shining them on as he has the immigration patriots.

Another answer is that Trump saw this as a chance to break the deadlock over nuclear negotiations with Iran. Think back to how he broke all the protocols in order to get the North Koreans to the table. All prior presidents refused to meet with the North Korean leader, but Trump not only agreed to meet, he pushed for it. His erratic and unconventional management style is an extension of his negotiating style. He likes to throw over tables and create chaos as a prelude to deal making.

Evidence of this is his tweet after the droning of the general. In addition to the boiler plate stuff, he made the point that he preferred to negotiate and the Iranians should prefer it too. In other words, this high risk, high stakes gambit is about breaking the stalemate and getting all the various players to rethink their position. Trump is a legendary bluffer and this is basically a big bluff. He’s threatening unconditional drone warfare unless they come to the table.

The other side of this is he gets a boost with his base who love the fact he took out this general with a drone strike. Despite what the anti-Zionists think, this is a winner for him with his core supporters. If nothing comes of it, he will be able to say he has tried to bring the Iranians to the table, but they will not budge. He played the same cards with North Korea. As a political matter, he gets to be both the tough guy, who drones bad guys, and the peacemaker seeking to talk rather than fight.

Finally, there is the possibility that this is tied into the impeachment process that will get going again this month. Senate Republicans like Mitt Romney and Ben Sassy are wholly owned by Jerusalem. In order to get their vote in the impeachment fight, Trump may be forced to give into the forever war crowd. This attack and the subsequent bluster about more attacks may be the real quid pro quo. If anyone thinks this is too conspiratorial, just look at the anti-BDS campaign.

The likelihood of this scenario leading to war, however, is low as the impeachment lever has a clear expiry date on it. There is an election brewing and Washington needs to dispense with the impeachment issue by February at the latest. That’s enough time to do some drone strikes and saber rattling, but not enough time to gin up support for a war with Iran. Instead it will just make negotiating with Iran impossible for the remainder of Trump’s tenure, which may be the real point.

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

253 Comments

Outdoorspro #140114 January 5, 2020 9:32 am 31
Another possibility: It’s been recently reported that he had meetings with enlisted military guys who actually have some first-hand knowledge of the Iranian General’s effect on our ground troops. I sensed a bit of that old New York, “You hurt my family, I hurt yours” attitude in the attack. He obviously likes the military members (the troops, not so much the brass) and enjoys their company. I like to think that maybe this was a bit of revenge for what he’s done to that family. After all, he is the CinC.
miforest #140328 January 6, 2020 1:05 am 4
hopefully you are correct outdoorspro.
Range Front Fault #140172 January 5, 2020 12:26 pm 20
On the Boomer home front: My Basic Husband has gone all archtypical Boomer. People change as they do and their nature unfolds under pressing circumstances. On the dining table are mini flags and a pic of Trump. Husband watches more and more pozzed football constantly. Husband appears to be running heightened stress continuously. Hannity and Ingraham run every night. I quietly read. A couple years ago Husband hated Gen McGregor, then like him for a year, now hates him again. Husband’s reaction is you whack me I’ll whack you. Middle East policy and Z Blog are not topics discussed in The Range household. No peeling back the mask. This is what righty Boomers look like. Still a lot of Boomer voters to affect policy.As for me, I just ordered an NRA tac bag for conceal carry. Keeping my eyes open and mouth shut.
MemeWarVet #140190 January 5, 2020 1:37 pm 8
Have you reminded your husband that the same people who told us that Soulameni was behind the embassy thing are the same ones who told us Iraq had WMD and was behind 9/11?
Dinothedoxie #140263 January 5, 2020 5:37 pm 3
Except that the deep state is outraged that Soleimani was whacked.
Alzaebo #140290 January 5, 2020 7:42 pm 4
Oh gods Meme you’re trying to give the poor lad a stroke. Go easy. He’s conflicted, struggling, later he may be ready for the Dark Side, but not yet. If never, that’s O.K. too. He loves his country.
james wilson #140208 January 5, 2020 2:55 pm 7
Your wifely subversion is impressive.
Exile #140224 January 5, 2020 3:38 pm 2
RFF, remember to insert a handy cut-and-paste “not all Boomers are like this, many of you are good based people we don’t dare offend” disclaimer when using the B-word. Of course, you’re a wahman, so white-knighting BoomerCons will give you a pass. Use it often, use it well sister. Generation LimbaughHannityCon will be with us for some time yet, and that demographic straddles the Boomer-Xer line.
Brahma #140338 January 6, 2020 2:07 am -3
Yeah, all Boomers are evil! Potus AOC
Citizen of a Silly Country #140240 January 5, 2020 4:38 pm 11
RFF, I can relate. I’m married to a Nice White Lady. Granted, she’s a NWL who’s has a decent amount of racial awareness, but she’s still a NWL – and extremely patriotic. We live in a pretty decent (90%+ white and reasonably well-off) so she doesn’t have to face much reality. (Knowing her, I highly suspect that she’d drop the NWL stuff in an instant if reality made a comeback.) In her defense, she’s the woman I married. I’m the one who changed politically. She’s a great person so I’m happy, but we don’t talk politics much, if at all.
Alzaebo #140285 January 5, 2020 7:03 pm 4
Soothe the Boomerwaffen with kind words. Tonight, look him in the eye and say, “Honey, you know what? Mess with the bull, you get the horn, right?” Then tell him the wisdom of the Z.Trump’s turning over the tables.That clarified it for me, and should do for him too. It’ll give him a handle he can grasp. May peace reign in the House of Range!
Brahma #140336 January 6, 2020 1:49 am 3
Just look at Breitbart!
Exile #140135 January 5, 2020 10:05 am 19
I’m not as sanguine as Z on the prospect that this blows over so soon. I agree that we’re not going to see anything like “war,” as none of the potential adversaries or their allies is stupid enough to play to our one remaining semi-strength.I think the Iranians play this through proxies like Hezbollah, maybe even a supposed “splinter sect” of “dissident extremists” who publicly break with the established leadership over alleged inaction vs. Globoshlomo. Our own serial false-flaggotry begs for a similar “plausibly deniable” response.Unless both the Persians and their leadership show an amazing amount of long-term subtlety and patience, uncharacteristic among the tribes of the region, for all that Persians are a cut above Arabs, I think we’ll see some terrorisms out of this. I certainly wouldn’t take bets on U.S. citizens abroad (myself included) being any “safer” for this stunt.Most importantly, and the only silver lining, is that this finally gets us kicked out of Iraq. When the official puppet government we installed eventually demands we leave (for its own survival – even puppets have to answer to their people), I don’t see the will in the US to force them to let us stay ad infinitum. We will be under massive international pressure to leave as well.Maybe we finally end this stupid episode by being tossed out by the fake purple-thumbed democracy we spent so much blood and treasure to prop up.Lastly for those who are claiming this is a just retaliation for an attack on our embassy: as a commenter here noted a few days ago, it’s never wise to make those evaluations in mid-timeline. The embassy stuff was alleged retaliation for civilian deaths in airstrikes we did in alleged retailiation for the alleged death of single heretofore unidentified civilian contractor, on and on, tit-for-tat terror-turtles all the down.We will likely get away with this without a full-blown war, and if you’re callous enough to consider the considerable chance of few hundred more dead civilians due to terror attacks a worthy exchange, then you’re likely going to be satisfied with Trump as he polishes his saber-peen for the election.Count me out. This was fake, ghey and wholly unnecessary. Like all of U.S. ME policy since we outsourced it to Tel Aviv.
Range Front Fault #140163 January 5, 2020 11:58 am 4
Exile…..practice how fast you can turn over a table and duck behind it. Stay safe Brother.
Compsci #140176 January 5, 2020 12:44 pm 4
You’ll never get a table over faster than shrapnel from a bomb will reach you. Never seen a commercial table top that will stop a 7.62 round. That’s why it’s called terrorism.
Exile #140272 January 5, 2020 5:50 pm 3
Range – see you soon. I have a few more miles to walk before I sleep and I’m more likely to get kinetically diversified in SoCal than over here – I will have plenty to say soon about the huge safety disparity between Euro cities and American (final frontier for that will be Londonistan on my return trip). FWIW, I don’t really fear for my own safety on this, but it’s pretty fake & ghey of muh Donald to claim I’m “safer” nonetheless.
Brahma #140332 January 6, 2020 1:19 am 2
Stay in the West End
Rwc1963 #140173 January 5, 2020 12:31 pm 6
What Trump did was stupid.There has always been a unwritten law, you don’t go around assassinating the leaders of foreign governments because they can do the same to us.This will be the 2nd time we did this. The first was with Qaddafi and we tried and failed against Al-Assad though proxies.This Iranian goon was in Iraq at the invite of the Iraqi government and we just rubbed their noses in shit on this. Neither group will forget this. Nor will the Russians who were using the Iranian Quds to hunt down and kill our Al-Nusra supported goons in Syria.One day those Muzzies will really pay us back and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the East Coast when they do.
Exile #140216 January 5, 2020 3:21 pm 8
RW – agree 100%. In my W-supporting days I used to rubbish this argument but there’s a point where our actions become so transparently lawless, particularly in light of our Yankee moralizing, that the world starts playing hardball with us en masse. I’ll keep citing Pat Buchanan on this – he’s warned us about the price of this kind of imperial arrogance and what it did to Britain. We seem determined to repeat their mistakes and become Cuck Continent to their Cuck Island by 2100.
Hun #140309 January 5, 2020 9:34 pm 6
The US will not even exist by 2100.
Eebola #140624 January 7, 2020 10:06 am 0
If only Chamberlain was as self-effacing as Hitler,Mussolini, and Tojo.The British didn’t come up with that idiot “master race” theory which the Germans constructed and the Japanese had their own version.Mussolini talked of reviving the Roman empire but couldn’t equip his divisions! When it comes to cuckery the US is leading the charge.
Horace #140221 January 5, 2020 3:30 pm 13
“…because they can do the same to us.” Given that we are either 1 or 5 years from never again having even remotely a real American patriot in the Oval Office, put me in the category of not giving even a microscopic shit. I don’t stress even a little over anything Trump does because, win or lose, pretty much everything further delegitimizes the Empire.
Alzaebo #140314 January 5, 2020 10:22 pm 2
Hoping somebody tweets Benny: “Revenge is indeed a dish best served cold.This one’s for Chrosroes. We have long memories too.” (His four Nazween Arab generals murdered him and claimed the great Persian Conquest to be an Arab Conquest.This was the war that exhausted Byzantium and Persia, and wiped out the Nestorian Arab Christians, urged and funded by Benny’s tax farmer/slave merchant ancestors.Those four generals are now called the Four Righteous Caliphs of Islam, after Benny’s scribal folk finished rewriting the histories.)
Alzaebo #140312 January 5, 2020 10:04 pm 2
Ye gods! You mean the New York Federal Reserve District is in danger? What about the Puerto Ricans and Haitians and the largest concentration of, er, fellow white people outside of a plucky little country? Get your enemies to kill each other. Heh.Maybe Trump is learning from the masters about triage, and their style of warfighting.May their own medicine taste sweet. Omigods they got Broward County, FL too.And little Tehran is near Hollywood!
Alzaebo #140319 January 5, 2020 11:23 pm 2
(This is me guiltily denying I ever said such a thing after seeing Al of the North’s “getting their rivals to nuke each other” below. My bad. Saml’s peeps are there. Maybe a few coffee cans of cobalt-60 snuck past the Port Authority? Microplastics and mercury in the gefilte fish?)
Musashi #140313 January 5, 2020 10:14 pm 8
“This Iranian goon was in Iraq at the invite of the Iraqi government and we just rubbed their noses in shit on this”If this is true then you have a point and its very bad optics. But I seriously doubt this is truth.Its been proven time and time again throughout history that a great play to win is by taking out the leaders on the battlefield. Iraq has been the chessboard for a long time. This did not happen in Iran. If they took out one of our generals in Iraq which they no doubt tried would anyone even blame them. Seems like we always have to play by some made up bs rules of gentlemanship, meanwhile they don’t have a rulebook.Persian leaders have proven to be quite adept at skirting the rules and taking advantage of our gentlemanship and weaknesses. Look at all the whining they are doing about this, that tells me all I need to know. Most countries would be embarrased, but they flaunt their loss to manipulate our public perception and gain much needed support from their own citizens.They just took a step back for the first time in awhile. They now fear us again. Yes the hate grows, but until the mullahs are gone their government will never work with ours regardless. A real shame too because if any people in the middle east could be real allies with us it is the Persian people.
Vegetius #140185 January 5, 2020 1:20 pm 4
I think they will continue the shadow war. They will send a message to the cloud in a way that may not make for good propaganda for the dirties.The fact that the Persians can hit us in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, and possibly eastern Saudi Arabia is something people seem to have a hard time wrapping their minds around. And this isn’t even considering what sort of cells they have outside of SW Asia.Also, what if their election surprise is a nuclear test? I mean, they’ve been a Friedman Unit away from having a nuke for twenty years now…
Pickle Rick #140205 January 5, 2020 2:34 pm 11
I hope they do get one. Then everyone has to step a lot more carefully, and the neocons/Shlomo can’t get their Iranian war. If they’re in the nuclear club, then they aren’t constantly under the threat of a Globohomo invasion, which might actually chill them out a little since they’ll be seated at the big boy table. Having a nuclear armed Iran puts a check on the ambition of a nuclear armed Israel’s regional ambitions as well as our interventionist lunatics.Mutually Assured Destruction kept the lid on WWIII in Europe, so MAD between Persians with a Russian sponsor and the Israelis could produce a strategic stalemate.
Exile #140219 January 5, 2020 3:25 pm 10
PickleRick – I’ll go there with you. A nuclear Iran would go a long way to curbing the most Jig-natty of Jews here and in Israel. Euros may justifiably take a dimmer view as they’re in range, but I don’t see how we can keep Iran non-nuclear forever and I don’t see where Iran has any interest in threatening Europe. The vast majority of ME and NA immigration to Europe isn’t coming from Iran.
Pickle Rick #140227 January 5, 2020 3:52 pm 11
A lot of people think that the Iranians and their leadership are drooling fundamentalist retards, but consider this, of all the people in that particular place, the Persians/Iranians managed to not be colonized by the British, French, Russians, Ottomans, and managed to get Stalin to withdraw his occupation of the country after 1945. They practice realpolitik, notwithstanding the Great Satan grandstanding that’s their equivalent to the CivNat Lee Greenwood MURICA grandstanding Trump uses to whip up the MAGA boomers.They’ve managed to keep Globohomo at bay since 1979, which implies that they aren’t completely insane ideologues willing to immolate themselves for Moooooohammad at the drop of a hat. So Iran can be reached, but only if we divest ourselves of a “alliance” with Israel, which isn’t ever happening under our current politics. So what to do? Tacitly allow Iran to become a counterweight with a nuclear arsenal so we can finally tell the Israelis ”no, you are done with proxy wars using us as your enforcer, because now the stakes are too high”
Exile #140252 January 5, 2020 4:57 pm 11
Rick, if I were a sane based Jew, I would prefer the Persian Bomb to the Arab Bomb. The Jignats don’t seem to understand that the “no bomb but our bomb” option is no longer possible.The Persians have maintained a respectably high culture since Cyrus, Darius and Xerxes. The Parthians confounded and constrained the Roman Empire, and they’ve maintained a distinctive high culture even under the heavy hands of Islamification, the Ottoman hegemony, and a century of European interference as well.They’re not animals, they don’t “hate us for muh freedoms” and we don’t need to be messing around in their backyard. Buy oil from whoever controls the spigot that day and let them run their own affairs as they wish.
Rwc1963 #140255 January 5, 2020 5:06 pm 8
Agreed. It’s the same reason why Kim in NK will not give up his nukes. He’s knows full well he and his associates will end up like Gadaffi if they do. Nukes makes the U.S. tread very carefully.
Al from da Nort #140274 January 5, 2020 6:07 pm 7
Rick;The point of nuclear non-proliferation was that once it began happening, the probability of nuclear war increased exponentially with the number of nuclear powers. That probability was actually pretty low (but real enough) during the bad old days of the Cold War. Why_?Ans. Because there was no doubt then where the Nudet (stupid Pentagonese for nuclear detonation) came from. So Moscow very shortly became glass if a Nudet went off on us or our allies and vice-versa for the Imperial Capital. Stability was certainty in being able to hold each other’s *elites* hostage.*If a Nudet goes off now, who knows where it came from, particularly were it to drop from orbit or if it came from a sea container in NY harbor, for example_?** It’s a given that all the usual suspects would deny responsibility and threaten nuclear retaliation, so now what_? Nuke ’em all and let God sort it out_? Morality aside, we don’t have enough warheads just for starters. And there’s an absolutely enormous ‘use ’em or lose ’em’ ‘first mover advantage’ to be had. It’s more deterrence from inertia than anything else right now.And, given human nature, sooner or later somebody’s going to gamble on the scenario of getting their rivals to nuke each other but not them. Were that to occur, the guys with so few as 5 or so deliverable nukes own the world. So who might do such a thing_?In particular it might well be an elite with a millenarian death cult ideology involving an apocalypse’s revealing the occulted 12th Inman: An unpopular elite who’s also facing a demographic death spiral. IOW somebody like everybody’s surprise sudden besties in Tehran, for example.So, no matter what else one thinks about the actors involved, it’s simply irresponsible to wish for more nuclear proliferation: Worse yet proliferation involving the Iranians._____________________*Our elite, particularly the red-diaper baby crowd whose sympathies were with the USSR anyway, didn’t much like this situation: Hence the various nuclear disarmament movements in the West. Odd that these folks have suddenly sprung back into life, no_?**Given the track record, the idea that our crack Intelligence Community would be able to decisively figure this out in the very short time that would be available is, shall we say, dubious.
Pickle Rick #140292 January 5, 2020 7:52 pm 7
There’s some validity in that, but I don’t think the genie stays in the bottle in regards to Iran, and doomsday isn’t on their agenda. Pakistan is full of backwards savages, hates the fuck out of India, but hasn’t launched anything yet.I think Iran likes presenting a facade of crazed Islamic belligerence, and supporting proxy cannon fodder to do their dirty work in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine, but has learned to avoid direct conflict since shredding themselves in a conventional war in the 80s against Iraq. They’re very careful to avoid real wars.Why would they precipitate a nuclear Armageddon when it’s pretty obvious that the American imperium is ending?
Al from da Nort #140321 January 6, 2020 12:13 am 3
Rick;My main point is that proliferation *all by itself* expands instability. Doesn’t even matter completely who the new nuclear powers are. Their very multiplicity increases the danger of nuclear war.An example re Paki’s: There are semi-credible reports that the Saudi’s financed the Paki nuclear program as ‘the Sunni Bomb’ and so have a call option on a few warheads. If so, they’re *already* a sorta’ nuclear power. Even if untrue, you can see how this compounds trouble if Iran crosses the threshold. Scenario: Iran pushes on Saudi, Paki weapons store blows up in a mushroom cloud. Who did it_? Candidates are Iran as preempting the Saudi’s, India, Israel, or US seizing the chance to rid themselves of a menace, etc…Now reverse it: Iranian nuke facilities blow up in a mushroom cloud. Who did it_? Candidates are Paki’s for the Saudi’s, Israel or US seizing the chance, Saudi’s themselves, etc…And this is only features five of the 14 or so now possible nuclear powers near term. Sadly, I agree that the genie’s likely out of the bottle. Thanks Cloud People_!Finally, it is true that neither you nor I know the Iranian agenda fully. Hell, they probably don’t either. Time and chance will have their say in due course anyway. But what *is* true is they *talk* like they are reckless and indifferent to annihilation. Shouldn’t we give weight to their words_?
Exile #140347 January 6, 2020 4:42 am 2
Rick – good point. Iran came fairly close to being destroyed in the 1980’s and to the extent we can trust any of the reportage in a broad sense, were reduced to “human wave” attacks at some stages. This makes subsequent generations more circumspect.
Alzaebo #140315 January 5, 2020 10:33 pm 2
Iran’s been buying old arsenal from Baikonur for years now, with enriched plutonium from North Korea. I think they’ve had nukes for some time, as well as one of the world’s largest missile delivery inventories. Israel’s Jericho targeting of every major city has met its match– thus the silence about ranting Twelver imams. As long as they keep it to a stealthy simmer with ground forces, neither will get stomped by the elephants.
Tank #140117 January 5, 2020 9:38 am 18
Scott Adams calls this shaking the box – rearrange things a bit to see if that helps move people off square one. Also, part of the anti- Benghazi. No one wants to look like a weak Obama type.
MemeWarVet #140188 January 5, 2020 1:26 pm 2
What price is Obama pay for Benghazi?
Sandmich #140392 January 6, 2020 11:17 am 1
Him, nothing, but it arguably led to the defeat of cankles (she wouldn’t have had to have lost all that many votes over it for it to make a difference).
Mark Stoval #140144 January 5, 2020 10:43 am 16
It seems like the Empire really, really wants another war in the middle east; especially a proxy war with an ally of Russia. Just think, it could escalate into WW3 and think what fun would that be. After all, China and Russia could never beat the feminized US military now could they?It boggles my mind how US voters have been OK with wars ever since the Spanish-American war of a long, long time ago.I look back at the hard right of the era between the world wars and wonder why no one ever talks about how they were spot-on right that the US should mind its own damn business. (I mean leave everyone alone)
bilejones #140156 January 5, 2020 11:08 am 6
I too wonder whether The Big Red Onehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Infantry_Division_(United_States)could be outdone by the Limber Lilac Number Two. And for those saying that nothing will happen, I’m already paying 25 cents more for gas than a month ago and it sure as shit isn’t the start of the summer driving season that’s doing it. That’s about $100 million a day in the US. Ten Billion a month.
SamlAdams #140160 January 5, 2020 11:30 am 8
Depending on where you live, winter formulation switch overs can play hell with prices. California screws itself with a unique formulation what means any demand surge or output decline jacks prices.
SamlAdams #140157 January 5, 2020 11:16 am 7
Russia, no. China is a wild card. Frankly, been watching their blue water capability more closely than anything else. Remember several years ago when the Chinese suddenly sent an anti-piracy fleet to Horn of Africa? They were lauded at the time for their contribution to reducing piracy. It was nothing more than test run, since the Chinese Navy had not ventured more than a few hundred miles in force for several centuries. Ditto with their port strategy. For fun, run one of the visualizations of traffic through the Straits of Malacca. Makes Hormuz look like a kids game in terms of potential economic impact. Meanwhile we’re distracted in the ME. One other observation. Stilwell, when he was able to train and equip Chinese divisions to modern standards thought they were every bit the match for the Japanese and European forces he had—only problem was that Generalissimo Cash-My-Check wanted to keep them intact for his future fight with the Communists. And certainly if my Dad and uncles were still alive, they could raise your hair with recounts of their time in Korea.
Alzaebo #140203 January 5, 2020 2:27 pm 4
Russia’s cash shorts would explain our propping up the negative ROI debt of shale. Market advantage until somebody sorts out Pipelinestan. I see you note the Great Game has met the One Belt in Iran, linchpin to both.Much to ponder.
Alzaebo #140206 January 5, 2020 2:41 pm 6
We could still get a nice Aryan-on-Aryan brother war out of this, with more erasure of historical sites and war inflation to soak up the Fed and Eurodollar balance sheets.If WASPs were still in charge, they’d take the Hormuz as they did in 1906, Baghdad in 1921, and continue to build out the energy infrastructure for a world that can no longer feed itself locally.But no, the vengeful greed and stupidity of the high-verbal IQ Masters of Reality has been busy putting skirted catspaws, both male and female, in charge of their helot militaries.Weakening us, they’ve weakened their strongest arms. And now their African pets have figured out who owned the slave ships.
Alzaebo #140211 January 5, 2020 3:02 pm 5
And while I’m at it, every empire that has attacked Afghanistan has fallen. Blessed are those that defend the bacha bazi. Cursed are those that assail it.Betcha that’s in a holy book somewhere.Why, next they’ll promise Paradise. Who would promote such ideas?Why, twisted liars, of course.And they’d cultivate others to acheive their ends. Pardon my rage, but this is war.(And yes, this also is an allegory.)
Major Hoople #140329 January 6, 2020 1:07 am 3
SA…if you read blogs like cdrsalamander and navymatters you will get a distinct feeling of foreboding at just how consequential that Chinese buildup may be…and how feckless our own Navy is….someday our fearless leaders are going to try to float a check our military can’t cash. TimNY
Samladams #140341 January 6, 2020 3:53 am 3
I still read shit like “Proceedings”…leftover from my research days in school. One of my kids is in the marine engineering/NavArch field and has some direct knowledge of f-ups like the LCS—which has sucked enormous amounts of resource into a ship that you could probably put out of action with one of the Constitution’s old 32 pounders.
Compsci #140179 January 5, 2020 12:53 pm 7
Again, the situation is disgusting on many different levels…but WWIII is hysteria not founded in reality. Two points: Trump a year of so ago wiped out 80 Russian “volunteers” fighting in Syria with air strikes, not a peep from Russia. China at this time has no possibility of projecting any power outside of its borders. A world war, by common definition, requires the great powers of the world to partake in the event. What great powers would those be?
SamlAdams #140183 January 5, 2020 1:10 pm 7
The Chinese are limited, but they are learning. And all effort to build a few sand spits in the South China Sea is because all the sea lanes that matter run through the neighborhood. China has a fuck ton of Achilles heels, but so far they have done a good job building a true “National Socialist” state and havent’ run themselves to ruin on race removal and invasion adventures. But rather like NDSAP and Mussolini did with the industrial oligarchs in Germany, they’ve harnessed them to the ChiCom wagon. Only this time the technology tentacles reach everywhere—just run the numbers on Huawei. My concern is we end up focused on a bunch of sand and camel shit whilst the bigger game plays out in the East. The Japanese will be loyal “allies” until their interests suggest a realignment towards a new “co-prosperity sphere” is a good hedge. Ditto for the Koreans (who I admire a lot)
SamlAdams #140184 January 5, 2020 1:13 pm 3
And I’d add, the US Navy has totally screwed up programs like the Littoral Combat Ship. There has been little innovation in strategic thinking in the realm that is going to matter the next time.
Alzaebo #140248 January 5, 2020 4:52 pm 7
Part of my anger was that picture of a catlady Admiral and a man in a uniform skirt – yes, a goddam skirt, I think it was a Marine uniform. (Green, while hers was Navy blue.) This is our Homoland Security, where ‘drill sargeant’ and ‘rear admiral’ take on a whole new meaning. Achilles and his shield-bearer must be laughing themselves to tears.
Alzaebo #140239 January 5, 2020 4:37 pm 6
Good point, Compsci, I’m thinking drone assassination of generals has countered M.A.D.Lots of indrawn breaths in the war councils of the world. Trump has broken the taboo that the paymasters are immune.And Saml Adams, a stellar followup.We’re bogged down in the oil sandpit while China probes the Pacific Shield we erected after WWII. They’ve even gone to orbit.Mao’s “foreign advisors” never thought pork-eating peasants would get so uppity.Kudos on noticing the effectiveness of NatSoc, the only effective counter yet to Globohomo.Oh yes, it has been tried before, and it works, too, unlike “real Communism” and its other sandwich half, Debt Kapitalism (debt bondage, a MidEastern economic standard.)
Samladams #140294 January 5, 2020 7:54 pm 4
Got bored doing work on the plane. And started reading the thread.
Alzaebo #140318 January 5, 2020 11:08 pm 1
You’re the first to point out that Red Chips (Chinese stocks) are NatSoc, something I happened to be thinking recently. Please- do get bored more often.
Samladams #140351 January 6, 2020 7:40 am 3
And people forget the Japanese were ardently pro-Western until they weren’t, in another era. But nobody studies history any more. None of the meaningful stuff fits in a twitter format.
Sandmich #140408 January 6, 2020 11:52 am 1
That Russian “volunteer” thing was ugly. Putin knew that these potential troublemakers (to him) would get wiped out and he wouldn’t have to pay them, and as an added bonus he got to perform a “probe” attack against the U.S. military.
Arthur_Sido #140171 January 5, 2020 12:23 pm 13
The reactions to all of this has been pretty fascinating, especially from a lot of /ourguys/ who have elevated Soleimani to sainthood and declared that if you are not standing with Iran, you are a Zionist shill. I don’t give a crap about whether he is dead or alive, it makes no difference to me but once again the Dissident Right has created a new purity spiral based on B.S. that serves to further divide our people. Almost as if they are inadvertently doing the bidding of the very people they claim to oppose…..
Carl B. #140174 January 5, 2020 12:34 pm -3
Makes you want to set up a pink pussyhat concession doesn’t it.
Exile #140220 January 5, 2020 3:27 pm 9
Carl, calling us pussy-hatters is just beclowning yourself. By all means keep wearing the Bush clown suit for us.
MemeWarVet #140193 January 5, 2020 1:42 pm 2
Whom specifically is saying this?
Exile #140223 January 5, 2020 3:34 pm 2
As Meme asks, who is doing this outside of maybe Striker and Saker? For myself, I’m just pushing back against the Hannity kool-aid that only a few of Our Guys seem to be selling on this. Calling this guy another Bin Laden is clearly a case of “one guy’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist” and I think labeling guys as “terrorists” is False Flaggotry 101. But being Shlomo’d by patriotic dissonance doesn’t make someone a shill, it usually just makes them a victim.
Alzaebo #140273 January 5, 2020 6:05 pm 1
“labeling guys as “terrorists” is False Flaggotry 101.”Thank you for that! Calling the military general who led our sigint against the Taliban- with pictures of him and American troops- a “terrorist” is right up there with saying “Iran is the number one state sponsor of terrorism!” Or an hundred other such laughable COIN revisions. The geniuses really think that Eurasia/Eastasia crap will work forever.All the baddies- every damm one of them- were “our guys” and ” trusted allies” once.‘We’ trained, armed, and funded them ALL.Even the Taliban. Even Khomeini.
Guest #140228 January 5, 2020 3:55 pm -9
Yeah, the comment section on this post is a complete embarrassment. It reads like the bastard child of Daily Kos and Stormfront. It’s now clear to me that Israel used pornographic pictures of Trump collected by Epstein to force Trump to strike down St. Soleimani as he was on his way to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize. That’s a perfectly rational intrepretation of events.
Exile #140241 January 5, 2020 4:39 pm 12
Bad Guest, none of us are saying these things, including the host. Your Hannity-Levin-grade name-calling and hysterical straw-manning is at least ten years past its prime. Do you have a position to stand on or do you just want to fling red white and blue crap at people with substantive takes?
Alzaebo #140281 January 5, 2020 6:33 pm 4
Like his namesake, Suleiman the Kurd, he was an accomplished military man who knocked the sh*t-stuffing out of double-dealing Israel’s ISIS mercenaries as (((brokers))) tried to steal everybody’s oil shipments and sell it back to all sides. Yeah, even to Iran. Give an enemy soldier his honorable due. He was in Baghdad at the behest of a faction of our Iraqi government. A flytrap? Since we’re paying for all this, we should have a say. (Kurds are also legacy Persian offshoots.Semites can’t manage sh*t without it being a dumpster fire, not a war or the NWO.)
JR Wirth #140253 January 5, 2020 4:58 pm 6
Or maybe we can have differences of opinion without adhering to a strict labeling standard. Your opinion would be wrong, I can still not hate you for it.
Alzaebo #140267 January 5, 2020 5:43 pm 5
With ya on the ‘Death to the ayatollahs’ part. They’re occupiers too. Khomeini was a foreign Lenin, while the Council are internal traitors and opportunists. Bring back the Peacock Throne!We’ll remain in a Palestinian stalemate with no Westphalian rules as long as the schizoid wierdos are running the show. All the MidEast, from blonde Egyptian pharoahs to fair Hellenes, from white Syrians to white Persians, was the cradle of high civilization 3000 years ago. They’re still unearthing the evidence.
JR Wirth #140165 January 5, 2020 12:05 pm 13
I want to learn more details about this US contractor that was killed prior to the Embassy dust-up and prior to the assassination of this Iranian General. It smells of gefilte fish and salmon patties. Looking at the maimed, teetering Netanyahu, the election cycle, the impeachment, the economy, all points align for this to happen. Also, Z-Man says “at the same time, America is in no position to launch another war in the Middle East, at least not a ground war.” -Ha. Yes, that’s as true as can be, a stark reality, but looking at this through the lens of DC, there’s always room for one more ground war. Money doesn’t matter, according to Trump we have “two trillion” in new equipment that we’re just dying to try out. DC is not a sane place right now, why would they believe something that sane? Also, keep in mind, that Iran has an honor based system, not a legal based one. It behooves them to attack us at least in proportion to their version of a Joint Chief of Staff/VP being blown away. That’s some serious carnage in my opinion. One more point, America First has always been the right and moral course. Pat Buchanan will be celebrated far more in death than in life. The real heroes of WW2 were the few who tried to say no. War is a filthy racket and we have no business in that part of the world. I would like nothing more than to hand it to China like that blankets with smallpox (that never historically happened).
Screwtape #140226 January 5, 2020 3:40 pm 13
I reckon average joe agrees with you. War is not popular. Isolationism or ‘America first’ has a long tradition. Deep roots that don’t exist in our media produced reality, but are nonetheless ever present among most sane individuals just trying to get by in life.A huge majority of Americans opposed joining in WW2, even after France was invaded. Memoryholed.Then there is the Holocaust to forever seal the righteousness of distant wars.When the question arises, everything is reduced to: ‘wouldn’t you have killed Hitler before he took over of you could?’The trap for average white joe is that he is not allowed to love his kind, prefer his people, culture, religion, borders, language, and history.He has no land to till for his children, only a marketplace to ply his trade while the State exacts its pound.To guard against invasion of his former Nation is evil. So that war ended without a shot. But his honor can blossom on the shores of some other land, by invasion or casting off am invasion. Neither of which will change his foreclosed posterity.His only outlet for this suppressed in-group preference and natural affinity for those most similar is foreign adventures sanctioned by people who despise him and everything above. Talk about honor.He can’t send his sons to boy scout camp without trannies, fags, and now gurls, but he can send them on any number of vectors that would have him kill or be killed in the name of cloud approved abstractions.And even ‘over there’ those young men are not enthralled by spreading democracy or whatever the latest tagline, but rather the well-being of their brothers. And to come home.Devious intent or by evil accident, the fact that the dispossessed are the majority of war fodder means that until those boys have their own homeland, the forever wars will have its pawns.If all our wars have proven out nothing else, they have established that A lack of readiness for a ground war of bloody attrition is something that is quickly remedied when TPTB need it to be. That pothole in front of your house? GFY!
Alzaebo #140260 January 5, 2020 5:16 pm 2
“I would like nothing more than to hand it to China like that blankets with smallpox” And they don’t think their end-times salvation depends on kissing up to Jerusalem.(A city that was captured, not built by, another ‘never historically happened’.) Ya know, I’ve just glimpsed an end to the Oldest War. I’d fricking give China half the oil sandbox and give back all their lost territory to the Turkish border, with Africa as dessert.They’d sort that out tout suite. In return, we’d get a spaceborne Zheng Ho, and go off explorin’! Finally leave the nest.
Sleepy #140110 January 5, 2020 9:12 am 13
I wish this was Trump finally playing the “4D chess” we’ve heard so much about, and using the backlash in Iraq (e.g., their government votes to expel us) to get the hell out of there, but I don’t see it. There doesn’t seem to be path out of the backwaters of Afghanistan, and Iraq is center stage in the Middle East. The powers that be seem to have decreed that we will be there forever. Sigh.
thezman #140115 January 5, 2020 9:33 am 11
No where was I talking “4-D chess” or anything like it. The most likely answer I listed was very 1-D chess. He’s appeasing the neocon shills in the Senate.
Vegetius #140124 January 5, 2020 9:48 am 36
My theory: that attack on the crusader fortress that we call our embassy in Baghdad was the key. Trump is a man of the 1980s and this all probabaly seemed a repeat of Carter and the hostages, and at the start of an election year. Throw in the latest smoking gun bombshell impeachment revelations, Netanyahu’s domestic troubles, and convincing him that these airstrikes were both moral and expedient became a lot easier.
thezman #140133 January 5, 2020 10:05 am 15
That’s really good. I did not think about the embassy angle, but yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
Outdoorspro #140134 January 5, 2020 10:05 am 28
“smoking gun bombshell impeachment revelations” Jeebus, when did Rachel Madow start posting here?
Exile #140139 January 5, 2020 10:24 am 16
Veg, for all that I question the judgment of those who actually believe this was justified b/c embassy (my comment below), I agree with you that this likely motivated Trump, for exactly that reason as well as the ones you cite. Boomers & older Xers will never let 1979 go. The same guys who cheered Nixon for pragmatism by snoggling with Mao not 20 years after Mao’s troops were killing thousands of American soldiers in Korea treat the comparatively bloodless Iran Hostage Crisis as an eternal, unforgiveable stain. You and I both know why, of course.
Tars_Tarkusz #140153 January 5, 2020 11:05 am 11
I don’t know why any Xer would care. I was 10yo in 1979. Iran was a thing on the news, but that’s about it. Reagan came in Jan 81 and it was over. It never invaded the culture the way Vietnam did with the Boomers. It probably helps that we weren’t subject to a draft either. Xers are going to be more wedded to Iraq than Iran. Hell, I was 20 when Iraq was invaded. Had their been a draft, I would have been “going to the beach” as we called it.
thezman #140158 January 5, 2020 11:16 am 19
Yeah, I recall the guy with the bad wig doing the “American Held Hostage” stuff, but that’s it. I think Boomer conservatives, the type who came out strong for Reagan in 1980, have a searing memory of Carter and Iran though. A big part of Reagan’s image was not being that pussy Jimmy Carter. I can see Trump thinking like that. In fact, I like that better than the possibilities I offered up.I’ve written about Trump’s obsession with the 1980’s in the past. He’s gearing up to re-run Morning in America this year. This embassy thing fits in very well with his sense of being this era’s Reagan.
Lamar #140187 January 5, 2020 1:23 pm 9
It had a big impact. You were a little too young. Also it may glacé been more of a Southern thing, not sure about that. It’s always been a warrior culture. Reagan pretty much won by promising to flatten Iran. There’s a reason they released all the hostages on Inauguration Day.
dad29 #140200 January 5, 2020 2:09 pm 0
Back off, Junior. I thought Nixon was a crass jackwad in China–until Clinton showed a whole new definition of “crass.” I know VietNam was engaged because the Fortune 50 wanted more market share, too. And Afghanistan has been a test-bed for the Pentagon’s new boy-toys for at least 15 years of the 20 we’ve been there. There is never a shortage of Generals and Industry that want war. Ike was dead-on–unfortunately, he’s also just dead.
Exile #140207 January 5, 2020 2:53 pm 18
Dad – For the 1000th time, criticizing something many of your generation did doesn’t mean you did it, and I don’t need to hear about how your particular take doesn’t fit the general attitude being criticized.NABALT, NABALT, NABALT.I might as well be criticizing Israel at Breitbart as to make any observation here about anything any Boomer ever did or said, ever.I got flak for lumping the Xers in with this – partly to make this “not all about” the precious sensitive Boomers. No good deed goes uncriticized.The fact we get this ADL-tier sensitivity to “anti-Boomer tropes & canards” only serves to prove the criticism.Every comment around here mentioning anything that happened before the 1980’s seems to require a mandatory two-paragraph “not all Boomers are like this b/c .” And even then we’d still have to hear this meaningless particularism about how you are the one guy or know the one guy who doesn’t fit the criticism, as if that invalidates a perfectly good observation.I have the Breitbart comments section for reference. Prove I’m wrong about all of them before you bother showing me how I’m wrong about you.
ExNativeSon #140242 January 5, 2020 4:42 pm 18
Exile: As a Boomer, I “resemble that post.”Man, all we wanted was some sex, drugs, and rock and roll that mommy and daddy said that we could not have.Then when we got tired of that we became Yuppies who usually went to top-rated universities at least for graduate school at a fairly cheap cost, usually got pretty high paying jobs without a whole lot of competition, bought houses cheaply that are now worth a million+.Then to top it off we converted to the Church of Virtue Signalling where we worked very hard to deny our own children the very opportunities we had by enacting AA in every sphere of life.Did I miss anything? What’s not to love about us? .
Lineman #140254 January 5, 2020 5:03 pm 5
You definitely got a chuckle out of me ENS…
Oldtradesman #141128 January 8, 2020 4:29 pm 0
Mr. Ex, Lmfao! Thanks
Oldtradesman #141127 January 8, 2020 4:25 pm 0
Go ahead and criticize the Boomers. I, for one, am not offended.
Some Guy #140201 January 5, 2020 2:16 pm 2
I agree with this angle. Another factor is that while Trump lost the popular vote with Hillary by about 2.5 million in 2016, over 5 million votes were cast for Gary Johnson and Evan McMullin. Getting these 5 million voters back to the GOP camp for 2020 is absolutely critical for Trump as The Great Replacement continues unabated. Stirring up feelings of theIran Hostage Crisis but this time “done right” is a decent strategy to pull those voters in.
John Smith #140218 January 5, 2020 3:23 pm 14
Correct. As a Yesterday Man myself, I remember the rage as the mudflaps paraded and terrorized the hostages for the cameras back then. And all that idiot Carter could do was dawdle and prattle and make lame excuses. And – I live up here in Canada. It wasn’t our fight – but it even made us as mad as hell watching our friends down south treated like that. When we packed up our embassies and left in protest, we even smuggled a few of your guys out with ours and made a point of flipping the bird at Iran with it afterward. No – we won’t forget that. Nor should you.But – we may FINALLY be seeing the proper application of asymmetric warfare. A state sponsored terrorist shells an embassy. A day or two later, he’s dead, along with a couple accomplices. This is how you defeat terrorism, fellas. The second they strike, they are on a hit list. If not the people responsible, then their allies and enablers and their families. This is a message that the moslem needs to learn. We are in a position to teach it to him – provided our leaders have the courage to do it.Moslem justice, in order to work, has to be brutal, fast, and fair, and all the monkeys in the tribes have to see it work. That’s exactly what happened here, so as our blog host says… in a week they will probably have forgotten about it.
Lineman #140232 January 5, 2020 4:04 pm 9
Now if only Trump would bomb the snakes here in our own grass…If he did that he would probably be President for Life…
Exile #140262 January 5, 2020 5:29 pm 14
John Smith – they don’t seem to be learning that lesson in Afghanistan, Iraq or elsewhere.There is a lesson the HannityCon needs to learn – that invading and occupying other people’s countries is a low-percentage play that doesn’t serve American interests, and that it causes asymmetric warfare including terrorism, it doesn’t prevent it.It’s a sad day when a racist hater like me has to tell you the downside of considering your adversaries to be monkeys.The chest-thumping rings pretty hollow when General Zod & Dr. Zaius are still running the show even after we “blew it all up.” Cue Chuck Heston pounding sand in front of ruined Lady Statue-poem.Pat Buchanan done told you for 30 years, and you guys still won’t listen.
John Smith #140280 January 5, 2020 6:31 pm 6
A couple of things, E.– occupation is part of flawed concepts like ‘winning hearts and minds’ and ‘nation building’. They were sops to the Left by Conservative Inc in order to give them (and others) a palatable excuse to get behind the wars and take part in the associated profiteering. The proper way to press the issue with rogue moslem nations is to kill those murderous savages – and walk away.– terrorism is all our fault? Nonsense. You do not understand how the moslem mind works. You think like a westerner. You assume that if we are nice to them, they’ll be nice to us. It hasn’t EVER worked that way in the Arab world. Crack a history book. They’ve been at war since the invention of writing. War is a way of life for them. If you pull every squaddie out and cancel all your business dealings with them…they will follow you home and wage war against you there. It’s already happening. If they win, they’ll kill your people, steal anything of worth and destroy what’s left. Historically they have turned cities and nations into landfills and goat pastures. Yes, those people are animals.You can fight them over there, or you can fight them here. You pick, kid. But if you are going to lecture me on how we can make peace with those morons…pull my other finger. It has bells on it.
Exile #140342 January 6, 2020 3:56 am 8
John – your response is straight out of Pam Geller & Robert Spencer. I did that gig for long enough – I don’t need to hear their takes rehashed. All of it, “you don’t understand Muzzies, you think they are like Westerners” etc… is straight from their writing.To top it off, “fight them over there” is pure Bush Admin Boomercon crack. Put that pipe down.As Z says elsewhere here, it’s astonishing how little some people seem to have learned two decades on since 9/11 in the light of so much evidence.Here’s what you need to learn, John – the “clash of civilizations” was Fake News. Muslims were not itching to take over the world b/c Allah and muh freedoms. To the extent anti-Western terrorisms weren’t false flaggotry, they were motivated by our messing around in their backyard.Study actual history, John. Look at what Muslim countries have actually done in the modern age, prior to the 1980’s and our era of ME neocon adventurism. They were secularizing, and the guys who led the charge back into the Stone Age are the Saudi Wahabbists the Bushes slobber over like sycophants and the Taliban we realpolitik’d into existence b/c Russkies.We built that, we funded it, we enabled it, and we’ve run interference for it ever since.Learn about the (((sources))) of your information about Muslims and how to recognize their agenda. You are dancing to a foreign fiddler’s tune.Free your mind and start thinking like an American rather than Israel’s janissary tax cattle.
John Smith #140352 January 6, 2020 7:55 am -1
Exile: Pam and Richard may be clowns but even stopped clocks are right twice a day. I don’t take my info from them; I take it from people that lived there. And fought there.You can judge people by their law. In Sharia Law, there are no mealy mouthed lawyers and corrupt judges turning their courts into fake morality plays where only the rich can afford justice.Under Sharia, if you do the crime, you draw the punishment. No plea bargaining, no loopholes, no mercy. The judge is a clergyman sworn to poverty. You can’t buy him, he answers only to God. If he doesn’t, the clergy will remove him and punish him as any other criminal. The death sentence is used often and without remorse. Justice is done publicly where all the tribesmen can see it. Back room deals are not permitted. Their laws are simple, brutal and harsh because that’s the way moslems are.Compared to our judicial failures that all might sound good. The only problem with Sharia is its treatment of Jews, women… and infidels like us. When General Salami was shelling The American embassy the average Iranian would probably just shrug and wish him luck. He was killing Americans and that’s as legal as church on Sunday. There’s no discussion about shelling defenceless civilians, or morals and ethics. We are infidels, killing us is God’s work because, like the Jews – we all belong to Satan.Contrast that with discussion here when general Salami got hit: “there was no due process!!! Why wasn’t congress involved!?!? By what right does an American president assassinate foreign nationals!?! Orange Man Bad!!!!”If you think that cultural differences aren’t involved here… you need to go back to your video games and play in the basement.😆👍
Samladams #140345 January 6, 2020 4:21 am 5
Years ago read Andrew Mango’s excellent bio of Kemal Ataturk—one of the most striking sections concerned his service as a young Ottoman officer in the Levant and North Africa. In the waning days of the Ottoman Empire, most of his time was spent prying the same miscreants apart that are fighting today. But for the dates, you couldn’t tell the difference from today.
Pete #140358 January 6, 2020 9:41 am 5
“If you pull every squaddie out and cancel all your business dealings with them…they will follow you home and wage war against you there.” So we pull our troops out – and then implement border control. Just stop letting them in. Simple.
Samladams #140343 January 6, 2020 4:18 am 8
There is a difference between a classic punitive expedition and invasion/occupation. We seem to have lost that competency. Once had it—the Marine Corps specialized in it. You punish, then leave, quickly. With admonition that next time will be 4x worse. The US keeps trying to straddle between total war and punitive war. Which is a loser in blood and treasure every time. The neocons want the results you can obtain from total war, but no one has the stomach for the killing and destruction necessary to execute the “LeMay Method”, or the “Sherman Method” (giving credit to the originator)
John Smith #140350 January 6, 2020 7:23 am 2
Correct. I would also add that as it stands now, if Americans ever do have to engage in real war with a serious rival… they will almost certainly lose. The Democrats will undermine the military in Washington, and their affirmative action flunkies will do it in the field. I’m sure that Trump understands this and may revive the punitive expedition tradition. Instead of sending Marines though, he’ll send the drones and Hellfires and cruise missiles.I get the contemptuous regard Americans have for drone warfare, it’s a coward’s weapon. But so is terrorism, and conventional law and warfare wont work against it. It’s the only way to deal with rogue nations like Iran that wage shadow wars, and the treasonous liberal rats that enable them in our countries.
Citizen of a Silly Country #140146 January 5, 2020 10:49 am 16
Agree that Trump was acutely fearful that he’d have another embassy hostage situation and become another Carter, so he made sure that wouldn’t happen at all costs. Have no idea what you’re talking about with impeachment revelations.
Dinothedoxie #140259 January 5, 2020 5:15 pm 4
The media and dems were openly bragging that Trump was about to get his own Benghazi. There’s no reason to doubt, btw, that Suleiman was planning and directing the attacks.
Sleepy #140145 January 5, 2020 10:45 am 9
Z Man, I wasn’t referencing what you wrote. I know you weren’t implying that. I was just expressing my own forlorn hope that the Orange Man might get us the hell out of that hell hole. Apologies for not being clearer. And I agree re: the NeoCons. They got him by the short hairs with the pending Senate trial, and they are milking him like a cow.
ronehjr #140162 January 5, 2020 11:39 am 15
“They believe the neocons are like super-villains, able to hypnotize politicians.” So anti-Zionists are being reasonable, not like what you wrote. Most anti-Zionists I listen to or read just believe that jews use money to control the decisions of politicians, not weird brain powers.
John Smith #140210 January 5, 2020 3:02 pm 9
And yet… something has to be going on.Consider: the Iranians are masters of brinkmanship. They know how far they can push people. They know fools and weaklings when they see them, which is why they exploited Jimmy Carter and Barkie Obutthole and made out like bandits – and then behaved themselves for Reagan and Bush.All that goes for Donald Trump too. He’s spent his life sizing up men, and knows who he can push around, and when to keep his mouth shut.Both parties, by rights, should be carefully ignoring each other. I say there is something going on. Iran is in no position for a war either. I sense fear over there. Something else is going on.
indocon #140303 January 5, 2020 8:44 pm 2
See his comment from today, you may be onto something.
ReturnOfBestGuest #140180 January 5, 2020 12:56 pm 12
I don’t feel hysterical, but candidate Trump was America First. President Trump is Israel and Saudi Arabia first. Go to the 3:50 mark of this Fox&Friends episodehttps://tinyurl.com/tqlbl5t. What happened to that guy? He’s repeatedly signed spending bills that he said he wouldn’t and sabotaged his own agenda — why not just sign a CR? Even his defense of the strike on the Shiite general looked like a hostage video. Do I think that a guy who hung out at Studio 54 back in the day and was involved in the NY/NJ real estate scene is squeaky clean? I do not. I just didn’t care as long as he got us out of ME wars, secured the borders, and did something about mass immigration.
whitney #140161 January 5, 2020 11:33 am 12
“It’s as if someone flipped a switch and reactivated the anti-war people.” In my town there were anti-war protests in the hip section and I looked at the pictures and it was 100% White. I’ll be generous and say it was maybe 70 or 80 people something like that. I think they just like being around white people but they don’t want to admit it and that’s why they do all these protests.
Penitent Man #140112 January 5, 2020 9:31 am 12
This all smells like another crisis de jour. If it has legs after two more weeks I’ll pay attention.
Pickle Rick #140111 January 5, 2020 9:18 am 12
The only “war” Trump could possibly pull off would be something like the 1983 comic opera invasion of Grenada, which took place two days after the Marine barracks was truck bombed in Beirut. I don’t think even our current crop of Globohomo Diversity Generals think they’re remotely capable of another ground war so soon.
Marko #140116 January 5, 2020 9:34 am -2
Yeah, what if Iran proves too scary for invasion, but the military-industrial complex needs its upcommies? Bolivia was a nice coup, but daddy needs his invasion. How about a small Caribbean country?
Pickle Rick #140141 January 5, 2020 10:35 am 15
I don’t know why the neocons don’t want to have a 50 year occupation of Haiti to spread the gospel of democracy and nation building by drone war…until they convert to Islam and threaten Israel. Then they’ll become a threat to humanity requiring the forces of America to spread happiness and rainbows at the point of a rifle.
bilejones #140354 January 6, 2020 9:12 am 1
There’s no money in invading Haiti. The Clinton’s already have it.
Marko #140244 January 5, 2020 4:47 pm 4
Would Haitians resist tho? They might welcome our involvement.
Anon #140113 January 5, 2020 9:32 am 11
Nat-twitter lost their marbles on this one. The Syria strikes could be rationalized as inexperience, cluelessness, 4D dealmaking or a Deep State double-cross. It’s a testament to how much goodwill Trump has squandered in the intervening years. Benefit of the doubt is no longer afforded the serial renegade.What’s more infuriating to watch? The triumphant rejoicing from the usual suspects, or the resurgence of knee-jerk Bush-era TobyKeithism with the Pedes-in-shades crowd?Whatever happens this election, this cements my belief that the old MAGA coalition cannot be put back together again. The movies don’t overlap anymore.The best-case scenario is Trump’s reelection bid will be a successful cringefest. If nose-holding is what’s called for, better get it out of our systems now and make our peace with it early.
Mike Walner #140122 January 5, 2020 9:44 am 16
The resurgence of the knee-jerk Bush-era TobyKeithism on other web sites and on “conservative” radio is discouraging but not surprising. It’s just so mindless. As with the Syria attacks, this is a small move, that if it goes no further it will be meaningless. Trump could have blasted Iran last summer and he didn’t. He could have expanded the Syria involvement as HRC promised to do, but he didn’t. It’s always the lesser of two evils.
thezman #140130 January 5, 2020 9:56 am 31
Yeah, it is weird watching the cheerleading from legacy right. I turned into that idiot Sean Hannity Friday night and thought I was 2003 again. I made it about five minutes. That’s the thing though. This stuff may not work on us, it works on Trump’s core voters. Like it or not, that’s the vote that matters to him, not my vote, for sure.
Citizen of a Silly Country #140148 January 5, 2020 10:58 am 57
Yep. I think that folks around here forget just how far we’ve moved mentally from white Republicans. We know how differently we think than white liberals, but we massively underestimate the gap between ourselves and white CivNat types.Not only do they still believe in the United States, they’re intensely patriotic. In that sense, we’re probably closer to the Left. Neither we nor the Left look at the United States as a country to which we belong. We both see the flag-waving white CivNat as stuck in the past, only it’s a past that we long for and the Left hates.
thezman #140150 January 5, 2020 11:01 am 23
Yep. This is one of those times where it comes into stark relief.
Screwtape #140166 January 5, 2020 12:11 pm 32
Citizen, indeed. Killing the idealistic beta male impulse to serve an earthly master for our own equivalent of 72 virgins is one more vivid border between the multiverse of realities we live amongst.Finding a unicorn that poops bitcoins is easier than finding the mirage of American Dream that these civnat types continue to peddle, even as their kids turn ghey, pop pills, and fade away in their safe space bunkers dug into a mountain of debt.We are always just one vote, one election, one Bill, one college degree, one ‘by the bootsraps like I did’ away from the reward of our personal debt-fueled life of material gluttony and distraction.If only we would all just wave the flag harder. Like the Real Americans do, the immigrants!We watch them shovel sand into their gullets while they praise the tender, juicy American steak. Cringe.This Weaponized idealism is a central aspect in our undoing as a Nation, a People, and a sex.The construct it supports has roots deep into the psyche of men that results in an anti-reality that is nearly impenetrable by the harshest daggers of reality.Like so many self-deluded young men who have been indoctrinated by a stack of lies, e.g. just be NICER and one day she will have sex with you, they cling to their idealism. You see, they are not like those other guys.The good news is, I hope, that many young ones are seeing that toxic idealism for what it is: chains. They see the reward for their nice, dutiful compliance for what it is: a yoke.But the impulse to serve is strong. And many will go to the desert anyhow.Because their own soil is not theirs to inherit, their blood is infected with historical sin, and the future they have been sold is an angry brown womyn, impossible to please, who will demand moar of their blood.When they question why they must keep wrapping their beloved flag around the cold bodies of their brothers, she will point to a poem on that statue. And well its hard to argue with that. Especially when they owe so much to this great Nation.
Exile #140264 January 5, 2020 5:38 pm 6
Helluva rant, Screw. 101% on both substance and style.
Lineman #140269 January 5, 2020 5:47 pm 5
We can change that Screwtape one Community at a time if we come together to do it…
Citizen of a Silly Country #140275 January 5, 2020 6:07 pm 29
Yes, the “you owe so much to this country” line that whites are forced fed since birth. Bullshi$! We don’t owe a damn thing to this country and its government. We owe a lot to the people who built what was this country – our ancestors – but nothing to parasites (fucking Jews) who stole it. The anger that I feel when I hear about some white kids from Kentucky or wherever getting killed in the ME is beyond words.
miforest #140327 January 6, 2020 1:03 am 15
Citizen of a Silly Country… I drive around eastern KY visiting and every bridge or chunk of road is the ” PVT Caleb pender memorial bridge”. in the mean time the federal gvt has shut down all the logging in the federal forests, forced all the coal mines into bankruptcy, and is converting the area into “nature preserves” . ie playgrounds for yuppies once the natives are starved out . one county I was in has a population of under 40K , and is one of the 10 poorest counties in the us . Saw literally 2 dozen of those signs , drugs run amok like the grim reaper on steroids, poverty is worse than it has ever been and that is saying something in Appalachia, and the best of their youth is bleeding in the sand on the other side of the world. I an more anti-war than code pink ever thought of being . by the way, where did they go?
3g4me #140214 January 5, 2020 3:18 pm 11
Very well said and spot on, Citizen. Many upvotes.
Yves Vannes #140229 January 5, 2020 3:56 pm 11
Very good point Citizen. In the end we will end up with more wht Bernie supporters than we will Hannity drones. We saw a parallel to this a week or two ago in Sweden. Their communist party broke up with the new party rejecting diversity, immigration, Greta worship and other standard globo-homo tropes. A very encouraging development. https://sputniknews.com/europe/201912201077662210-swedish-communists-launch-new-workers-party-without-multiculturalism-lgbt-greta-thunberg/
ReturnOfBestGuest #140169 January 5, 2020 12:22 pm 6
I saw a bit of that myself (we dvr Tu-Ca but for some reason it also records the beginning of Hannity.) There’s your proof of multiple universes, because he and I apparently live in different ones.
Lineman #140271 January 5, 2020 5:50 pm 2
Exactly right Z which should be a wake up call to all of us… Without numbers we have no power and without power we have to endure whatever they have in store for us…
LineInTheSand #140212 January 5, 2020 3:08 pm 18
Warring against Muslims is a waving red cape that transfixes the conservatives. “We’re a kick ass country and our President has balls!” I was talking to a hardcore conservative last night who agrees with me on an intellectual level that we must get out of the Middle East. But when we start bombing Muslims he can’t think straight. He speaks passionately about freeing the ME people from Islamic tyranny and saving innocent little Muslim girls from FGM. I just tell him that this is another sign that our rulers will keep us in the ME forever.
My_Comment #140291 January 5, 2020 7:52 pm 10
I am on board with this newest chance for an endless war as long as we draft only women and immigrants during the first 15 years. That way we can strike a blow for Jerusalem and a blow against the patriarchy at the same time. I also look forward to stories about how Maria left Mexico so that she could fight for the Israelis. (Whoops I mean for democracy.)
Alzaebo #140339 January 6, 2020 2:21 am 2
Hot damn! Since we’re already making regular flights, here’s your new welcome center! Hey, migrant relocation racket- we’ll pay you twice if you ship ’em back out to their new, unoppressive Lands of Opportunity!
sirlancelot #140197 January 5, 2020 1:59 pm 9
Here we go again ” orange man bad ” . Personally think the President is a complete stud for surviving the withering onslaught from the DC viper’s den.And if some of my fellow citizens like to way the flag so what ? I still consider them my allies. A bit naive perhaps ,but I can forgive them for thatThe left is losing their minds. They know the president will be re-elected. All this howling and gnashing of teeth about the coming war is just a sign of desperation.Sometimes a rose is just a rose. They bombed the embassy and we took out one of their bad guys.In complete agreement with the assessment nothing will change. More drone strikes, the whittling away of 2nd amendment rights, rising federal debt, longer work hours, less return on wages and . . . . Hey look ! The Super Bowl !
JR Wirth #140249 January 5, 2020 4:55 pm 6
All you have to do it look at Ben Sasshole, Miss Lindsey, foam boy Marco Rubio. If they’re happy with something Trump has done, you know it’s a big mistake and a sellout of the country.
Dinothedoxie #140265 January 5, 2020 5:40 pm 5
Alternatively, if the racially woke progressive dems and deep staters are outraged by something you know that it’s good.
Alzaebo #140298 January 5, 2020 8:08 pm 6
Sirlancelot, huh, a decisive C-in-C who asks forgiveness later. No JAGs or Hawaiian judges were consulted. Gee, I wonder who the troops will rally to if he calls? And thanks, darn tootin’ my naive, flag-waving countrymen are still just that- my countrymen.I thank you twice for that.
DLS #140138 January 5, 2020 10:17 am 9
I would love for us to pull out of the ME completely. But if we are unfortunately staying involved, this move makes perfect sense. Iran is not going to retaliate. They have been doing everything possible for 40 years. The mullahs respect strength and will likely bluster more, but back off on actual aggression. Trump gets to appear strong, appease the neocons, and stir up the anti-war crazies on the left before an election. Smart politics within a stupid bubble of wasting lives and money to no effect in countries we have no business in.
Chd7y #140121 January 5, 2020 9:41 am 7
Is this still a non-event after the Iraqi parliament voted to expel US forces?
thezman #140129 January 5, 2020 9:53 am 14
That would be good news, for sure, but alas, that’s not what happened. Instead they passed a hotly worded resolution asking the government to consider it. Maybe next time.
bilejones #140151 January 5, 2020 11:03 am 8
From your lips to God’s ears.They even had an emergency session to comply with your wishes. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/iranian-mps-chant-death-america-iraq-votes-have-us-troops-removed-country
thezman #140154 January 5, 2020 11:05 am 15
Frankly, if the Iraqis started demanding we remove our troops and embassy people, I might reconsider the 4-D stuff. It will never happen. They will make a show of demanding we leave, but privately put their hand out for more money. Same show, different empire.
Rwc1963 #140168 January 5, 2020 12:20 pm 12
Maybe it doesn’t matter since Iraq is a defacto Iranian province given that it has a Shia led government and the Southern half of Iraq is all Shia.Iran has already won for all practical intents. We can’t admit that because it shows how incompetent we are.I suppose the Iraqis/Iranians can extort billions more from the U.S. with this since we need Iraq as a logistical support hub for our Syrian occupation and oil theft operation.They also know they have us by the cajones on this for another reason The Saudis are terrified of facing a supersized Iran on their border given how incompetent their military is and having to rely on Pakistani mercs.
ReturnOfBestGuest #140182 January 5, 2020 1:05 pm 8
~2/3rds of Iraqi’s are Shia. Why Bush, Obama, and president (not candidate) Trump pushed the same lies should give every person here pause.
Alzaebo #140311 January 5, 2020 9:44 pm 0
Many upvotes for the meat of the matter, Rwc. We handed the ayatollahs half of the Shia Crescent; we sat on our hands for 40 years of “death to America” after we gave them the richest, free-est country in the Mideast. Then we left the Sunnis completely unemployed in their own country.Illegally, too, I might add, without cause. I trust nothing I’m seeing here.None of the sandbox makes a bit of sense,
Vegetius #140189 January 5, 2020 1:30 pm 5
It is being reported that the Iraqi parliament has voted to expel us. I guess our troops and mercs weren’t able to arrest enough lawmakers to alter that vote.
thezman #140196 January 5, 2020 1:51 pm 10
“The vote still needs the approval of the Iraqi government, which has permitted a U.S. presence in the country to help combat the Islamic State.” Sadly, it appears to be just bluster.
Vegetius #140202 January 5, 2020 2:19 pm 5
Yup. A lot of weasel-wording. Slowly but surely they are getting the liberal democracy bit down. “The government *commits to revoke* its request for assistance from the international coalition fighting Islamic State due to the end of military operations in Iraq and the achievement of victory.”
Rwc1963 #140246 January 5, 2020 4:49 pm 2
For now. But remember the majority of the population is Shia and if their mullahs and Margas decide one day to say “enough and out with the infidels” parliament and their president will do so unless they want to end up dead. And Iran may just call in those markers and there is nothing we can except bend over. The rest of the Sunni world would freak out big time.
Brahma #140330 January 6, 2020 1:11 am 1
And Trump sent in 3,000 troops to the region
bob sykes #140120 January 5, 2020 9:40 am 7
I am a pessimist. We are engaged in a tit-for-tat game with Iran, and the internal logic of the game is driving the players. The US and Iran are not the deciders in this game, they are the pawns.There will be a retaliation for the Soleimani murder, likely the murder of a high ranking American. There will be reprisals against Iranian targets for that. Etc. Etc.Today, all over the internet, neocons and Trumpists are gleefully dancing on Soleimani’s grave. Soon that glee will turn to tears. We might end up destroying all of Iran’s civilian and military infrastructure and their pitiable navy and air force, but they can destroy the oil production facilities of the entire region. Then what? Other than Russian gleefully dancing in Moscow streets.
thezman #140128 January 5, 2020 9:51 am 13
I guess hearing the exact same claims about Syria and Venezuela makes me skeptical. When Trump lobbed missiles into Syria we hear the same claims by the same people. Nothing happened. The fact is, Trump’s tenure has been 99% talk and 1% action on everything.
Apex Predator #140159 January 5, 2020 11:25 am 10
There is a fundamental difference you seem to be overlooking here. A random piece of land in Syria which was cleared ahead of time by a phone call to evacuate is a VERY different thing than a guy who was basically a rock star and hero in his own country.There was a piece on him not long ago describing him as some mix of Erwin Rommel, a celebrity, Sean Connery, etc rolled into one. This would be the equivalent of someone hitting Colin Powell with an IED during the Bush Era. Actually worse than that because Powell was not a highly charismatic figure.I think you are going to see either some targeted sporadic attacks or a well coordinated assault across many countries at once. When the Iraqi leadership is also condemning it and saying it humiliated them in their own country, you’ve stepped on your own dick.Extrajudicial killing of ranking generals of a foreign government on ANOTHER sovereign foreign natures soil by assassination is a -really- bad look, period. Nothing good can or will come of this and I think Trump just put thousands of Americans into the crosshairs. This is something very very different than all the crap he’s done before.Interestingly, the most sober take on this is from the NYTimes believe it or not, you’d do well to check out their article which contains some insider intelligence info from their various ‘leakers’ i the intel community.
Guest #140199 January 5, 2020 2:04 pm 3
>> This would be the equivalent of someone hitting Colin Powell with an IED during the Bush Era. Actually worse than that because Powell was not a highly charismatic figure. That’s not a good analogy because Powell was in a civilian post during the Bush era. A better analogy would be to General Patraeus or General Franks. Military officers are perfectly legitimate targets of military action–they don’t get an exemption when a star is pinned to their chest.
Musashi #140310 January 5, 2020 9:38 pm 7
If one of our top generals was killed in Iraq by an Iranian missile you would hear less sympathy from our media and civilians than you currently do for this Persian general. To me that is sad.You can disagree with our interventionalist foreign policy and still support taking out this target. There are times when you have to show strength. If this took place in Iran it would be a different story, but he was in Iraq most likely organizing and orchestrating new attacks on foreign soil. Fair game.We made our bed in Iraq a long time ago, why let some strangers continually piss in it. Until we are completely out we may as well kick out the dog pissing in the bed we made. Its bad enough our last administration tried to pay for appeasement. Trust me on this the Mullahs in Iran respect and fear Trump, unlike Obama. They are in no position to start a full-on war.
Exile #140349 January 6, 2020 5:03 am 6
Musashi, I disagree that taking this guy out is in any way coherent with anti-interventionism. We are the strangers in this bed. We are more foreign to that soil than any Iranian. A reasonably consistent application of ethno-nationalism would suggest that absent compelling U.S. interests, we simply leave. I don’t see how this serves any U.S. interest. If we weren’t in Iraq, Iran’s alleged (and frankly debatable) “respect” for Trump wouldn’t be worth caring about.
Musashi #140435 January 6, 2020 12:54 pm -1
Iraq is the Mullahs lifeline. We did them a HUGE favor by getting rid of Sadaam. Time will show how big of a favor it was. Soleimani had emmense influence on Iraqi politicians. Not saying the next man up won’t but I’m sure anyone who wants stability in Iraq and the middle east is happy to have him out the picture. Many more are celebrating his death than mourning. Its easier for us to leave with him out the picture than in it.Iran does not benefit by starting a larger conflict and getting the U.S. more involved. They want us out of Iraq. All this posturing and talk is for show just like the last 40 years. Hezbollah will be more aggressive and claim revenge, but will it really be much different than what they are already doing?Unfortunately at this point for the U.S. its not as simple as just leaving, especially in the interconnected world we now live in. With that said killing Soleimani just made it easier for us to get out in my opinion. The pentagon saved some face for all the trouble he caused us over the years. I really don’t see how this escalates anything based on who benefits. Large wars have been started for less so who knows, but the regime in Iran is not suicidal. They lost enough in the Iran-Iraq 80’s war to last multiple lifetimes.
Exile #140137 January 5, 2020 10:17 am 5
How does this involve Russians dancing? They don’t want war with the U.S. and Iran’s a semi-ally.
SamlAdams #140155 January 5, 2020 11:07 am 3
No but Putin has a bad case of the cash shorts since US production has suppressed prices. He still has the gas monopoly in Europe, but with some of the new LNG transport technology coming on line, that market could be threatened too. Have to give him credit, he plays a pair of twos pretty well. He just needs chaos.
Exile #140215 January 5, 2020 3:18 pm 9
SA – our ham-fistedness does benefit anyone outside the Cult of Empire, true, but I have a knee-jerk reaction against “you know who this benefits” argument. The world isn’t a zero-sum game between us and the Russkies – it hasn’t been for decades. We should guide our policy by a positive vision of our interests, not merely as a negative counter to some eternal external enemy. Pat Buchanan’s been shouting this into the neo-con gale since the late 1980’s.
Samladams #140340 January 6, 2020 3:47 am 1
I think you misread. Generally I’m a hard line realist and interests govern. Russia can’t really project power beyond causing mischief and chaos, because at the moment that is what creates openings for an opportunistic player with fewer cards. No different that traders on Wall Street. They don’t really care if equities or fixed income goes up or down—the money is made on the price movement.
Hoagie #140118 January 5, 2020 9:40 am 7
Couldn’t it be that an opportunity to take out a Moooslem terrorist who killed thousands of people and Americans and who promised more terrorist activities presented itself and Trump took advantage of it? Or is that too simple?
thezman #140123 January 5, 2020 9:48 am 21
Probably, but this guy has not been in hiding the last few years, he has been walking around in the open. Nothing happens in Washington without some political angle, so there’s some angle here Trump thinks is in his favor.
Compsci #140167 January 5, 2020 12:11 pm 7
Or, if I were a cynic—the explanation might be as simple as that the last person to discuss this situation and possible reaction with Trump, was a neocon. 😉
Brahma #140326 January 6, 2020 12:56 am 2
Exactly!
Otto vonB #140251 January 5, 2020 4:55 pm 5
The embassy attack and the impeachment are both plausible for Trumps move. The impeachment vote and reelection pressure may be the main motive . Some aspects are very reminiscent of Woodrow Wilson’s sudden flip in favor of war when (((they))) threatened to cut off the campaign donations for his second term.
Citizen of a Silly Country #140152 January 5, 2020 11:04 am 17
Yes, it is too simple. The Iranians could say the exact same thing about Jeeewish commanders (or even American commanders) who support and train their enemies. Should the Iranians be allowed to kill those commanders? There are no good guys or bad guys in the ME. Just tribal grudges that go back decades or even thousands of years. We shouldn’t be involved.
Murray #140178 January 5, 2020 12:51 pm 24
What is this neocon nonsense? Or are you being ironic? Soleimani was a general of an internationally recognized state, overseeing military operations in his own country’s interests. Whether or not his assassination was justifiable in legal or moral terms, he was no more a “terrorist” than, say, Generals Schwarzkopf, Mattis, or Petraeus, not to mention any random drone pilot. American imperial rhetoric is depressingly infantile. We can drone-strike non-combatants, depose heads of state, and invade at will, because we are Morally Right and Good, but anyone who dares oppose us is ipso facto Evil, perhaps even the Next Hitler.
Guest #140192 January 5, 2020 1:40 pm -15
That’s some seriously delusional bs that belongs on Daily Kos, the New York Times, or some other trash site. Soleimani’s record of brutality and terrorism is thoroughly recorded. Even the hardcore anti-American leftists admit this.Soleimani was a military officer actively planning and conducting military operations against the US. As such, he was a perfectly legitimate target. He was killed in Iraq, where the 2002 Authorization to Use Military Force is still in effect. This operation was perfectly legal and the President was fully within his authority to approve it.Your comment is yet another example of the dumbing down of the comment section on this blog. Yours is the kind of stupidity that caused Vox Day to start blocking comments from idiots to keep his comment section from becoming the corner of the Internet on which all the morons congregate to barf out ignorance from their keyboards.
Exile #140213 January 5, 2020 3:12 pm 2
Guest – citing the AUMF is Bush-tier neocon nonsense, as is the implication that there’s any difference between Right and Left on the Forever Wars anymore. You are citing a two-decades old ridiculously overbroad and grossly unconstitutional document to justify an action that can’t be justified on the basis of the best interests of the American people. There is no anti-war Left anymore. Citing the opinions of some fake Leftist neo-lib doesn’t make your shilling for process over substantive interest undisputable. This is a Ben Shapiro-style argument.Who Vox Day chooses to ban and why isn’t relevant to this topic or this blog in general. I’ll let him speak for himself on that. Stop trying to stir up on-side sh*t for no reason.
dad29 #140296 January 5, 2020 7:58 pm -5
Perhaps “defining the terms” is not your forte, Junior. A “general” running terrorist paramilitary ops NOT using uniformed soldiers is, in fact, a TERRORIST. Go back to high school and learn “definitions 101.”
Exile #140344 January 6, 2020 4:20 am 6
Mad-dad: no one here buys that I’m a youngster, naive, or need to “go back to high school.” The schoolboy status-flexing is lame. Writing Bush-takes in caps doesn’t make them right. The hair-splitting about uniforms and “paramilitary” ops is sophistry we’ve cooked up to lawyer about “just war.” No one fighting the US is dumb enough to adopt our “definitions” on this, and no one on the receiving end sees any difference between “military” US “collateral damage” and “para-military” truck-bombers and IED’s.
LineInTheSand #140222 January 5, 2020 3:31 pm 2
Guest, I’m curious about your answer to my question athttp://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=19512#comment-140217
Guest #140233 January 5, 2020 4:05 pm -20
My answer is: do your own damn research. I’m not your performing research monkey, nor am I obligated to or interested in answering inane questions from anonymous commenters on the internet.Posing questions like this are a gamma male’s way of peacocking on the Internet. You pose a statement in the form of a question, then demand others jump through the hoops to prove you wrong.If your question is, in fact, your thesis statement then go find material to support your thesis. A Google search for “iran terrorism” returns 413,000,000 results. You have plenty of material to work with there.
LineInTheSand #140235 January 5, 2020 4:15 pm 10
Weak
Guest #140238 January 5, 2020 4:30 pm -16
Gamma
MemeWarVet #140250 January 5, 2020 4:55 pm 4
Okay Boomer
Exile #140257 January 5, 2020 5:10 pm 2
Troll.
Durendal #140268 January 5, 2020 5:43 pm 4
Are you that grug brained to actually believe and quote “google” searches?
Apex Predator #140286 January 5, 2020 7:10 pm 12
“Guest”, rename yourself to Pest which is more accurate and f-ck off back to Vox Day’s circlejerk sycophantic suckup forum which it is 100% obvious you come from with your weak ass ‘gamma’ retardation he spews at anyone that bitch slaps him in an argument. It is the sign of weakness that is like a bat signal for all to see. Just stop and get back over there please, you are stinking this place up.
Anon #140322 January 6, 2020 12:20 am 4
Denounces Anonymity. Calls himself “Guest”. The most nondescript nom de plume imaginable, ahead even of mine.Vox Day larpers are precious.Now is as good a time as any to try on that Darklord Cosplaying kit you got for Christmas. (If this is a troll, well done, Sir! You got the smug prickliness down pat.)
vmax71 #140282 January 5, 2020 6:58 pm 2
Why are people getting yeast infections by your comment? Your statement may end up being inaccurate (unlikely) but it is not crazy and a very plausible plausible scenario. Weird.
Murray #140304 January 5, 2020 8:49 pm 6
I tell you, when the JIDF sends its people, they’re not sending their best. But good for you for answering an argument I never made.I’m not interested in the legal or moral justification for Soleimani’s assassination, which you spend a good deal of time defending. For all I know, it could be perfectly on the up and up.I am interested in the brain-dead imperial propaganda that portrays every opponent of US imperial adventurism as uniquely evil, and in the grug-brain boomers who fall for it every time.Let’s be grown-up about this: the United States invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses, killed thousands of its citizens, executed its leader, and imposed on it a new and likely unworkable form of government. All this right next door to Iran, the regional hegemon. What kind of idiot would seriously expect them to just stand by and let this happen? What would America do if China invaded Canada or Mexico?If we want to talk about terrorism, let’s ask the citizens of Iraq–or Serbia, for that matter–how they feel about the American generals who terrorized them for nothing more than the sake of a tissue of lies.
vmax71 #140320 January 5, 2020 11:34 pm 0
What does this have to do with POTUS Trump taking out Solemani?
Dinothedoxie #140261 January 5, 2020 5:27 pm 1
Nothing says white nationalism and builds support among former civ nats like singing the praises of an Iranian terrorist mastermind, who is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of white Americans. And who has vowed to killed thousands more. Well done, citizen.
LineInTheSand #140293 January 5, 2020 7:53 pm 6
For the sake of argument, I accept all your beliefs. Given that, what national interest is served by fighting with Iran in the Middle East?
Dinothedoxie #140353 January 6, 2020 9:07 am -1
Getting revenge on someone that’s killed your people and threatens to kill more in the future is not “fighting the zionists war”. Sometimes, the enemy or your enemy is still your enemy too. Especially when he’s killed your people.
Murray #140306 January 5, 2020 9:12 pm 5
My God, the takes, they’re ice-cold. If you’d actually read what I wrote, you’d understand that I’m not singing his praises. I have no idea what kind of man he really was, and it doesn’t really matter at this point. I understand my argument may be a little subtle for you, but try to keep up.
LineInTheSand #140217 January 5, 2020 3:22 pm 7
Good question because it challenges my biases. Sincere question: What terrorism has Iran engaged in that didn’t spring from:* fighting Israel’s annexation of land or fighting us for helping Israel in that endeavor, or* preventing the USA from toppling their government or imposing social liberalism on their society? I recognize that Iran is a Muslim state and Islam demands conversion by the sword, but in practical terms, if we weren’t supporting Israel’s continual land grabs and trying to overthrow their government, would they still attack us?
dad29 #140297 January 5, 2020 8:03 pm -3
oh, sure!! “HE HIT ME FIRST!!” “NO, HE DID!!!” NO…..ad infinitum. Iran chooses to act extra-legally. I’m not making a defense of Israel here, don’t care. But did Iran hit us first after the fall of the Shah? Or did we hit Iran first? How do you know, with Biblical certainty?
Alzaebo #140308 January 5, 2020 9:28 pm 0
That would be the Beirut bombing, 1983, wouldn’t it? I met one of its soldiers. So that would mean Bush’s CIA cowboy, Khomeini, bit back first. That’s gratitude for ya.
Exile #140346 January 6, 2020 4:35 am 3
Dad, on a long enough timeline, everyone has justification for war.The Shah fell 40 years ago. Only two decades years before that, we put him in power:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh“As soon as the coup succeeded, many of Mosaddegh’s former associates and supporters were tried, imprisoned, and tortured. Some were sentenced to death and executed. The minister of foreign affairs and the closest associate of Mosaddegh, Hossein Fatemi, was executed by order of the Shah’s military court. The order was carried out by firing squad on 29 October 1953.”How do you justify war two generations on for us and ignore what we did in 1953, one generation before 1979?“Just war” is Talmudic sophistry for international-law types and diplomatic geeks. War should be based in interests, not fake, self-serving, post-hoc moralization.There is no American interest served by this eternal blood-feud from the Carter Admin.
Moran ya Simba #140258 January 5, 2020 5:12 pm 6
I think it was to rattle the mullah cage in a way they would notice. Iran was getting getting pretty uppity. They’ve been attacking Saudi Arabia, highjacking oil tankers, downing pricy American hardware and, not just shooting at Americans but killing them. They were beginning to take the American grizzly, which it still is militarily, for a toothless teddy bear. That kind of delusions can lead to dangerous miscalculations. I think this strike was about reinstating deterrence and I think it makes warlesslikely once all the flapping of angry wings dies down.I also agree that this helps Trump w his base. We all have our theories about who’s really behind the slow killing of the West. But Iran was killing Americans. If that doesn’t bother you at all, you need to cut back on the black pills. Itshouldbother you, on a primeval, visceral, tribal level. And we will need exactly that tribalism later, whatever you think of Zionists and stuff.
MemeWarVet #140278 January 5, 2020 6:12 pm 0
Iran was killing Americans? Who? Some unidentified civilian contractor?
Moran ya Simba #140299 January 5, 2020 8:16 pm 3
They were arming and traininga lotof the insurgents and supplying them w stuff for IEDs. This goes all the way back to 2003 or so.
Mike #140316 January 5, 2020 10:38 pm 3
As I understand it, they don’t want the AmerIsrael Empire of Last Man on their border, and want Iraqi Shi’ites as a solid ally in their struggle to maintain their nation, and their wider group (Shia Islam), in a relatively independent and traditional existence. I don’t blame them. I understand that Iran was aiding us in fighting against the Taliban after 9/11 (under this Soleimani, no less), until Bush suddenly dropped his Axis of Evil speech on them. From what I’ve read on our relations with Iran going back to the 1950’s, I can empathize with their views on “us”. I even see a commonality of interests. It’s in their interest, and ours, that we pull out of the Middle East. The Western elite, and the liberal system, is a determined, implacable, existential enemy to themselves, to European man, and to tradition and culture (culture worthy of the name, at least) the world over.
Moran ya Simba #140333 January 6, 2020 1:25 am 4
I have some sympathy for what you’re saying, especially about getting out of the ME sewer. But there is no doubt that this Soleimani was central to supplying equipment and know-how for IEDs to insurgents in Iraq and that he thereby killed and maimeda lotof American troops.There IS a time for empathizing w the other side’s point of view and for looking at the bigger picture. But there is also a time for “fuck it, I dont care if a ‘reasonable third party’ could also see the other guy’s point of view”. There can be a conceited arrogance in trying to take ‘the elevated point of view’, and I am not referring to you here. But I think it is often the point of view taken by the could people, and it is fundamentally disloyal b/c it pretends that you are neutral between what should be your side and what should be the other side. After fumbling around a little, and helped a little by Carl B.’s comments, which exactly took the visceral, tribal approach, I decided that that was the right one here. Soleimani was killing Americans, he can go to hell. Then we can look at all the ‘advanced’ analyses of this and that, later. I’m happy this bastard’s had a career change to pushing up Persian daisies.
Alzaebo #140335 January 6, 2020 1:36 am 5
Yup, they had Navy kneeling on the deck under Obama, but had Quds and al-Sadr killing our guys under Bush. While we were taking out their dreaded rival! I agree. Buzzing the tankers was a further sh*t-test of the fences. The Council are ruthless killers- no mercy for them or their henchmen. They respect only force, and Trump spoke to them in a language they understand.
Dinothedoxie #140256 January 5, 2020 5:10 pm 6
This raises a few questions. One is why the anti-war people have flipped out as if they were just waiting for a reason to get back in the streets. Because they’ve always been anti-American, communist agitators. They don’t give a flying fuck about war. Just making Americans look bad and undermining the nation.
tz1 #140236 January 5, 2020 4:22 pm 6
I think it might be even simpler. This was a target of opportunity – we knew where he was going to be – not in Iran – where there wouldn’t be collateral damage at a particular time, AND he is a soldier, not some nebulous “enemy combatant” or “militant” and likely organized the attack against the US Embassy (which is US Soil) as well as killing Americans by proxy. Think Admiral Yamamoto.Iran is divided – I remind those who are trying to count protesters of our own #NotMyPresident and the pussy hat Madonna wants to blow up the whitehouse march.
ExNativeSon #140230 January 5, 2020 3:57 pm 6
I have worked with a number of Persians in the fields of academia, law, and nonprofits. I have also known several Persians very well. Notice I said Persians; all of the Iranians I dealt with always self-identified as Persians.Persia was a great civilization until defeated by the Arab Muslims in the 600s and then went the way of Muslim countries. The Iranians in the US were the upper-class people who had fled when the Shah was overthrown and the Ayatollah took over Iran or had the money to later move to the US.So I think that what happens in this situation is who really controls the levers of power in Iran; the upper-class Persians or the Muslim riff-raff. If it is the Persians I think they are smart enough not to push it both because they know they will lose and because much of their kin live in the US. If it is the Muslim riff-raff then it is a much different story. Islam is well on its way to conquering Europe and a smart group would leave it be so as not to upset that conquest. But no one ever claimed Muslims were that bright.Trump is a reactor, not an initiator. But when he reacts he reacts strongly. If Iran does not push it then the problem goes away. But if they do then Trump with the support of a large % of the American people, the neocons, and the military/industrial/complex could escalate this very quickly and harshly.With Russia and China backing Iran it could be WW111.
Alzaebo #140302 January 5, 2020 8:39 pm 7
But successful revolutions happen with two things:A revolt by the upper class (our Founders)Help from without (such as the French during our Revolution)Were we to signal our intention to overthrow the petrodollar occupiers who are Wiemar-ing Persia, would the expats join in, seeing opportunity back home?Perhaps this was Trump’s opening bid, decapitating the IRGC.Now if Trump were to decapitate the Lobby’s agents here at home- say, with indictments for sedition-And pull our troops into a “purely” defensive ring around the Saudi pump tanks we built and around Israel- solely to defend them, of course!- we could ringwall the disruptors into hostage-hood containment while a grateful Persia cuts deals with an equally relieved Russia and China.Even worse, we could tell the eight (((Families))) who own the Federal Reserve that we repudiate our debt to them, and Jubilee ourselves and Europe out of their settlement exchange system.Let them trade their shekels for sand amongst each other after we enforce the Glorious Aliyah. Teva Pharm can sell its gender transition drugs to thirsty Arab lads lacking mutilated virgins, and Disney can relocate to Qatar, sending us their best new product over the Web.
DFCtomm #140270 January 5, 2020 5:48 pm 5
So VOA just said that the Iraqi parliament has demanded we withdraw troops from Iraq, and now the media has went balls deep against a war with Iran. I never really believed in all this three dimension chess stuff, but if Trump pulls this off and we completely withdraw from Iraq is there little doubt that Trump isn’t playing Nth dimensional chess?
joey junger #140142 January 5, 2020 10:35 am 5
The real takeaway from this may be that you always end up paying for sex, one way or another. Your average guy forgoes a condom once, and he’s paying for HPV drugs for the next ten years. Trump bangs a couple underage girls on Jeff Epstein’s island, and it costs us another few trillion in treasure and a few thousand in lives just to keep that manila envelope with photos in a safe next to Ghislaine Maxwell’s bed (with duplicates at Beit Aghion under Bibi’s pillow). On a more serious note, experts who’ve studied war for decades don’t really understand the phenomenon any better than the rest of us. We may or may not get war, but seemingly smaller precipitating events than this killing of a general have set continents on fire. Drones maybe obviate this, maybe not.
Compsci #140177 January 5, 2020 12:47 pm 7
What evidence has been presented that Trump ever visited Epstein’s island?
joey junger #140204 January 5, 2020 2:27 pm -4
I know that Trump has flown on the “Lolita Express” and considered Epstein a personal friend, and is incredibly hawkish on the Levant. Plenty of these assignations took place in locales other than the Island. It probably helps to have your own island to host orgies/sex parties, but I believe even people who live in apartments or are staying in hotels have actually managed to have sexual intercourse on occasion.
Alzaebo #140234 January 5, 2020 4:15 pm 8
Trump got a short taxi ride and hopped off quickly, none have refuted that.He refused the proffered favors. The NYTimes promo’d a few articles about a former Epstein 13-year-old who sued, alleging that Trump “demanded to pop her cherry.” The lawsuit was deep-sixed. Shades of Herman Cain, who was similarly defamed by some blacktivist women in David Axelrod’s pay. I think that bit of Southern District Law skulduggery is when Trump declared war on the dirty bastids, and decided to win.
joey junger #140277 January 5, 2020 6:11 pm 2
If only they hadn’t kneecapped Hermain Caine think and he had won, think of how much better shape we’d be in. He could get that one Sheriff David Clarke in as his VP, and then we could show those damn democrat socialists that they’re the real racists (now let me hit Breitbart real quick to celebrate Trump kickin towel head butt; them Israelis are gyad’s chosen payple.) And where’s muh rascal scooter?
Alzaebo #140317 January 5, 2020 10:56 pm 1
Haha! Point to you, Mis-tah Junger.
Al from da Nort #140237 January 5, 2020 4:27 pm 5
Joey;Theoretically plausible possibility is not evidence. By that standard, maybe *you* were involved too, maybe even me despite age and decrepitude 😉 Interesting how this topic has really brought down the logic and raised up the passions and emotions when it’s likely that, as Z says, it’s just another day in the sandbox.
joey junger #140276 January 5, 2020 6:09 pm 1
Re: Passions, speak for yourself. I’m bored, and puzzled by the craven attempts to defend Trump. The upvote/downvote buttons don’t really do much for my reward/punishment center, but some people get a rush from them, I suppose. Anyway, I think Trump will win again, which is good news for the Chabad-Lubavitch crowd and the Magapedes. It doesn’t solve any real problems for anyone who’s serious.
Alzaebo #140324 January 6, 2020 12:38 am 2
Whether or not he’s /ourguy/, he’s the only lightning rod for whyte identity, whether admitted to oneself or not. Besides, all that open Chabadery keeps redpilling the dickens out of the masses to the increasingly obvious nature of our occupation. Three generations of intense hypnosis takes time to dispel. Hasn’t anybody noticed just how pervasively those special themes are repeated? It’s like every third breath you hear falsehoods such as “Hitler banned guns! Hitler snubbed Jesse Owens!”
Brahma #140323 January 6, 2020 12:37 am 4
I think he’s surrounded by a lot of insane neocons who convinced him to off Soleilmani. In actual fact most Iranians hate the Mullahs and want them gone. Half the population are under 30, spend their time on the internet and want to be like the West. Also the urban middle and upper classes are sick of them. The neocons intend to strategically bomb military and infrastructure targets to cause a mass uprising and topple the regime ending with Iran becoming something like Turkey. Good for Israel.
King Tut #140307 January 5, 2020 9:24 pm 4
While I sympathise unreservedly with my American DR friends who are profoundly sick of expending blood and treasure in the Middle East to no apparent benefit to America or Americans, pulling out lock, stock and barrel may not be so easy.We (which is to say Britain) have had a military presence in the Gulf region for well over two centuries. Even before the Napoleonic wars, we had to send the Royal Navy there to protect British merchant vessels (en route to and from India) from rampant piracy. Inevitably, we got involved in the violent squabbles of the local warring tribes and, thus, ended up building military and naval bases there, some of which we still actually maintain, believe it or not.Of course, this was all long before Zionism or hydrocarbons were even things. It’s the strategic location which always seem to draw in the great powers and, usually, keep them there.
Rwc1963 #140164 January 5, 2020 12:05 pm 4
Iraq just voted to expel our military. Now it remains to be seen if Trump respects their wishes or simply treats Iraq as a U.S. colony. My bet is the latter given how much Congress is addicted to war and perpetuating our occupation of the ME no matter what.
Ursula #140191 January 5, 2020 1:37 pm 12
Israel won’t allow the U.S. to leave; they need us to stay and keep the region destabilized. It’s the U.S.’s Chutzpah foreign policy, specializing in illegal bombings, assassinations, coups and occupations. Courtesy of the white U.S. tax cattle and when that comes up short, just keep printing money! Never a shortage of money when it comes to our best ally.
TBoone #140301 January 5, 2020 8:38 pm 3
I wonder if those opposed to Trump, in & out of his administration didn’t get too clever by half. The ‘normal’ cycle of attacks on US was spinning up. The contractor killed was ‘proof’ of ineptness on the part of Don. The embassy attack was a ‘scary’ thing that called for restraint & nuance. All according to ‘advisers’ & wizards most likely too young & antagonistic to understand. Trump has lived through 2 embassy attacks egregiously mishandled. NYC during 9/11. Headlines questioning ‘will this be His Benghazi?’ would surely anger him. He sends reinforcements. Again politicians assume they can force him to blunder. Make him look bad. Ha Ha! Play usual Games. The info that Gen Charred Remains (GCR) was ‘involved’ was meant to signal restraint. Back off. We ‘can’t escalate this. EVERY body Knows That!! Except a loudmouth Boomer from NYC who loves an USA long gone. So when the answer to ‘why ain’t this guy dead?’ was ‘we cannnnnnnn’t do that! It’s icky. And will cause more trouble!!’ ‘He’s super good at terrorism. Don’t make him angry!!’ Trump decides.. OK… this is their top genius guy. Meeting with His top guys. To kill Americans. IF we make him mad he’ll extra kill more? Because he’s good at it? ‘Let’s Kill Him. And anyone else we can.’ The Horror!!Donny turns over the Table. Because it’s right there. In front of him. Begging for it. Perhaps more tantrum than 4D chess. And now? We shall see what we shall see. Where it ‘stops’ nobody Knows…
G Lordon Giddy #140209 January 5, 2020 2:55 pm 3
I like the 80’s angle too. Trump is an 80’s man and nothing stirs up an 80’s man more than that weak Jimmy Carter and his hostage problem.I do think this ramps up the hostility with the Persians though. I don’t think it just passes by without some acceleration and quite possibly significant American blood lost.I also think we are increasingly seen as much of an oppressor in that region as Israel and even more.Not good for white Americans traveling abroad.I don’t think average normie realizes this yet.That Trump ultimately done what the neocons wanted though is because he is an 80’s man. I like that theory.
JR Wirth #140247 January 5, 2020 4:50 pm 4
They put that red jihadi flag on top of their mosque. Id say that points to a body count at least in the hundreds of whatever they have planned. It’s an eye for an eye part of the world. Always has been.
Lorenzo #140266 January 5, 2020 5:42 pm 6
A Red Flag! I just put on my boots so I can quake in them.
JR Wirth #140300 January 5, 2020 8:16 pm 3
That’s the way I look at it. Red flag means body count has to be minimally a few hundred or the red flag looks stupid. It’s about saving face in that part of the world. We wouldn’t know that with our culture.
dad29 #140198 January 5, 2020 2:02 pm 3
Another answer is that Trump saw this as a chance to break the deadlock over nuclear negotiations with Iran. Think back to how he broke all the protocols in order to get the North Koreans to the table. All prior presidents refused to meet with the North Korean leader, but Trump not only agreed to meet, he pushed for it. His erratic and unconventional management style is an extension of his negotiating style. He likes to throw over tables and create chaos as a prelude to deal making.Evidence of this is his tweet after the droning of the general. In addition to the boiler plate stuff, he made the point that he preferred to negotiate and the Iranians should prefer it too. In other words, this high risk, high stakes gambit is about breaking the stalemate and getting all the various players to rethink their position. Trump is a legendary bluffer and this is basically a big bluff. He’s threatening unconditional drone warfare unless they come to the table.I’ll take that door for $1,000.00 and the game, Alex.By the way, that also gives the Mullahs a ‘clean’ chance to negotiate–that is, they don’t have to negotiate, but they want to be responsible, yada, blahblah. They are on their heels at home–those demonstrations shown by CNN are all highly-engineered; hardly ‘grass-roots.’ And they are isolated: the Sauds control all the other Muslim pieces on the board. The Russkies are not acting, they’re watching, and the Chinese are in the same place–at least, so far.Trump’s “unpredictable, erratic, crazy-man’ game is working to perfection–so far. There’s a reason that the saying is “crazy like a fox.”
Al from da Nort #140243 January 5, 2020 4:44 pm 5
Dad;Yeah. “Watch out, he just might go crazy”, was how Nixon got us out of Vietnam in 1972. The fact that Commies in Congress blew up any chance of holding off defeat in 1975 is not on Nixon, no matter what else you can say against him.
Alzaebo #140331 January 6, 2020 1:14 am 3
Nixon ran the table at Hanoi – the communists were forced to agree to open elections, a free press, a cessation of hostilities. He had near complete victory, and got us out.I fear and respect our ancient and formidable Enemy, but who do I actually hate? Our own. Those chiseling, back-stabbing weasels sabotaged a patriotic President with the Watergate charade in revenge for the loss their Nam money machine, the opium supply, and the Mekong oil basin.They slaughtered millions so they could cancel the line-item veto and get Omnibus funding bills. Not hate, but hate-hate for our own who betrayed their People and all humanity for 30 silver talents more.
JR Wirth #140245 January 5, 2020 4:48 pm 5
I don’t see any deal with North Korea after all that 10-D chess. You can’t have a deal with North Korea because something like 95% or its imports and exports are with China. It’s a de facto Chinese province. Speaking of China, I don’t see any China deal in writing as of today, and I’m sure whatever it is it’s laughable, and that may be yet another example of why he did this, as his east Asia agenda looks like a dry well.
Alzaebo #140295 January 5, 2020 7:56 pm 4
Strongly agree, dad29. He’s surrounded by enemies who want his nads in a vise, especially at home, so his table toss has disrupted all their scripts. Now the hot potato is back in their laps.Your move, genius advisors.
MikeatMikedotMike #140170 January 5, 2020 12:23 pm 3
Z – I posted the following comment earlier this morning at AE’s blog, before reading this post of yours. It seems like an if not greater minds, a like minds moment: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/iranian-enormity/#comment-3645213
Sandmich #140411 January 6, 2020 11:57 am 1
Forgive my quote of a quote: “Zman from the Zblog made a point a couple months ago about how Trump might not actually hold control over the US military, and it may be operating independent of his wishes. His argument was reasonable. This latest assassination may be another case where Trump is forced to accept responsibility for a military action that he didn’t actually order, in order to save face.” I found this interesting (and completely believable). We’re always on about “rogue elements” in totalitarian nations; so it’s interesting that we may be in the same boat.
Rwc1963 #140289 January 5, 2020 7:39 pm 2
I find it amusing that BB and other conservative sites are all butt hurt about the Iranians whacking our troops.They clearly are forgetting that most of our KIA and WIA came from Sunnis pouring into Iraq from Saudi Arabia. It got so bad that we had to start bribing the local Sunni tribes to keep them from killing our troops.The bigger picture. Why in the f**k are our superiors shocked when the locals and neighbors start killing our jarheads after they invaded innocent countries? My god, these are some stupid people. This is a natural response that our military, political and ruling classes don’t get it.
Alzaebo #140337 January 6, 2020 1:49 am 2
New World Disorder.No shucks about the Sunnis and that outpouring of Saudi gratitude. Yet we forgot, like it never happened!Hey, why do they hate us?Tunnel vision is a wonder to behold.Something wrong with our minds, I swear.
LineInTheSand #140225 January 5, 2020 3:40 pm 2
Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979 : Iranian people::Trump Revolution : our people today?
Sam J. #140863 January 7, 2020 6:19 pm 1
“…This is popular with the anti-Zionists. They believe the neocons are like super-villains, able to hypnotize politicians…”I don’t think this is a fair characterization of the anti-Zionists. Actually most people called anti-Zionists are not even anti-Zionists at all. They want all the Jews to move to Israel and stop destroying their countries.Never the less most don’t believe they are, “able to hypnotize politicians…”. No most believe that politicians know where the money comes from, that if they go against them they will be destroyed and possibly treated like the Representative from Ohio James Traficant who was redistricted, jailed then somehow ran over himself with his own tractor. (To make this perfectly clear somehow he ran around to the front of his own moving tractor and ran over himself). They also find it likely that a very large majority of the politicaians are blackmailed. Not really much of a tin foil hatted assumption considering the recent Epstein situation. That they’re blackmailed and fear for their lives is a far different emphasis from they have some sort of mind voodoo on them.
KeepTheChange #140583 January 6, 2020 7:40 pm 0
I’m totally black-pilled … voting is a waste of time. Regardless of the party in office, we still have massive immigration, rampant multiculturalism displayed on every tv show and commercial, and endless wars for Israel. Pretty soon, they’ll be talking again bout the social injustice associated with the wealth gap … and coming after our 401k money. Time for another beer!
KeepTheChange #140582 January 6, 2020 7:24 pm 0
We just can’t quit fighting Israel’s wars … either there’s good $$$ in it, or Israel’s got the goods on a lot of people, or both.
John Q Public #140396 January 6, 2020 11:28 am 0
“History is full of examples where countries bluffed themselves into a war that neither side wanted.” Umm, no.
Alzaebo #140194 January 5, 2020 1:47 pm 0
“Turning over the table” makes more sense than anything I’ve yet heard, and brings a great deal of comfort. Thanks, Zman.
Guest #140325 January 6, 2020 12:50 am -8
Zman, I think you can mark January 5, 2020 as the day when the Zblog comment section jumped the shark. I’ve been here for over five years and have recently commented about how the comment section has been going downhill fast lately, but the inmates have now definitely taken over the asylum. Perhaps it was inevitable that as other dissident blogs got shut down the disaffected freaks and losers would migrate here, but here they are.You write and speak a lot about the importance of being the respectable face delivering the message. That’s not going to happen with the crowd that’s gathering here. This place is toast.
MemeWarVet #140334 January 6, 2020 1:28 am 3
Okay Boomer
Exile #140348 January 6, 2020 4:50 am 11
Another guy claiming he’s been here for 5 years who’s commenting as “Guest?” What’s your goal with this, Bad Guest? Do you think Z’s going to change his writing to dance to your tune? Suck up to the Townhall crowd? Turn into Powerline, b/c you’re “concerned?” According to his recent pods, traffic on this blog is up, not down. Places like AoS are shifting in Our direction – not towards Con, Inc. or recent knock-offs like “National Conservatism.” You sound like a shill for the gatekeepers or a glow-in-the-dark. Bad Guest.
Lineman #140361 January 6, 2020 9:45 am 3
Well BYE… Seriously you’re lecturing Z about how he keeps his house when you’re just a guest that’s hilarious right there…Oh and classic troll telling us on how long you have been here…Better run off to your safe space now because reality is just not your forte…
bilejones #140119 January 5, 2020 9:40 am -10
” hotly worded tweets from Trump and bellicose rants from Iran.” So the words of the violently bellicose warmonger Trump. are “Hotly worded tweets” while the responses of the victim are “bellicose rants”.Got it.
thezman #140126 January 5, 2020 9:50 am 22
C’mon. Iran has been know for bellicose rants going back to Carter. Opposing another misadventure in the Middle East does not require us to become pro-Iran.
SamlAdams #140140 January 5, 2020 10:29 am 7
“And today on the 4,387th episode of “Death to America”, the ayatollahs call for the death of the Great Satan…”. And so it goes. Solemeini made the bad judgement of poking the embassy thing in an election year and apparently booking is flight and hotel on Travelocity. Oops. Trump gets his political win, no collaterals get whacked (as would have been the case after the drone shoot down) and a pretty shitty dude goes to collect his virgins…or something.,
bilejones #140149 January 5, 2020 10:59 am 3
” a pretty shitty dude” On what basis do you say that? The only things I’ve read about him seem to indicate that he’s pretty good at his job and is respected by his troops. What do you know and how do you know it?
Compsci #140175 January 5, 2020 12:37 pm 3
Yeah, denigrating the enemy often leads to underestimation. As Z-man noted, Iran is not a nation of “sand people”. They can be a formidable enemy.
SamlAdams #140186 January 5, 2020 1:20 pm 8
Never said the guy was not clever at turning minimal resources into maximum result. History is replete with examples. If you were betting money in 1525 on who should end up on top of the economic heap a century later, England (Scotland) and the Dutch would have been your last choices. Both played a long game and ended up punch way above their weight. But because of my own in-born prejudices (honestly earned) I’m glad to see the guy dead.
Murray #140181 January 5, 2020 12:58 pm 6
Well, the Iraqi PM is claiming that Soleimani was acting as a delegate from Iran after the US asked the Iraqis to act as mediators between the US and Iran, and that the Americans killed him while he was on his way to meet with the PM. Not that I take this at face value, but big if true.
Al from da Nort #140231 January 5, 2020 4:02 pm -2
Murry;Damn, you are gullible. QS was hit *leaving* the airport.* Is there *anything* you won’t buy from the enemy** just because it feeds your anti-CivNat/American prejudice_? It’s a bad look. Not winning’ the normies that way._________________Way less super-duper intel required getting him outbound. Simple set of pickets with cell phones will do the trick, provided you have the drone on station. And they can stay up a loong time.**Having us as the enemy has been the lodestar of Iranian policy for all these 40 years.
bilejones #140279 January 5, 2020 6:14 pm 1
Who is “The Enemy” and why?
Al from da Nort #140287 January 5, 2020 7:18 pm -3
Bile;Iran is the enemy under discussion here. Why: Because *they* have said that they are for every one of the last 40 years. And *they* have proved it by their deeds for most every one of the last 40 years. The historical amnesia hereabouts today is simply astonishing. It’s as though just because the MSM studiously ignored Iran’s rhetoric and actions for the Obama years (as though they were under orders to do so) that none of these things ever happened.
bilejones #140417 January 6, 2020 12:13 pm 0
Ah, yes, Historical Amnesia. I see History didn’t begin until 1979. not, say in 1953. I know of no harm or threat done to me by the Iranian Government. That is not true of the US Government.
Murray #140305 January 5, 2020 8:59 pm 5
You have misread what I wrote. TheIraqiPrime Minister (hint: not currently our enemy, but give it a few weeks) claimed that the Americans asked him to act as mediator between them and Iran, and that Suleimani was the Iranian envoy in this process. It wasn’t the eeeeebil Iranians making this claim. As I said, I don’t take his claim at face value, but if it’s true, it’s pretty bad.
Chad Hayden #140575 January 6, 2020 6:30 pm 1
I’m no Iranophile, but I like them a helluva lot more than Saudi Arabia
Tars_Tarkusz #140131 January 5, 2020 10:04 am 20
You need a good dose of alternative history where Madam President is in the White House, ISIS still exists, hordes of Muslims have been taking the trek into Europe and where Madam President is trying to enforce the no-fly-zone against Russian anti-aircraft artillery. Don’t forget about the courts being stacked with progressive maniacs. Not only are there 2 new progressive SCOTUS judges who will serve for decades, but RBG retires so we get another young progressive judge. Not to mention the federal courts.Who knows what other progressive stuff we don’t know about was in the works just waiting for Madam President to implement.
MemeWarVet #140195 January 5, 2020 1:48 pm 6
Tars, you’re referring to the things that are going to happen anyway starting in 2024 (and possibly earlier?)
vmax71 #140284 January 5, 2020 7:03 pm 2
Well, I for one am not going to give up and let the “inevitable” happen.
vmax71 #140283 January 5, 2020 7:01 pm 0
Now , THIS guy is a troll. I , as usual , am not upset but mildly amused at keeping updated with what America’s enemies are “thinking” . using the word think loosely in your case.


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