The Post-Citizen World

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Steve Sailer likes to promote an idea he calls citizenism, which is the general idea that a government should place the interests of its current citizens ahead of the interests of non-citizens or potential future citizens. It is pretty much what we call civic nationalism now, but a dozen years ago that meme did not exist, even though the concept has been with us since the founding of the country. The Founders certainly thought the point of government was to serve the interests of the current citizenry and their posterity.

Civic Nationalism is largely a reactionary idea today. Like various forms of socialism, it lacks a root system in the soil of the current culture. In a world in which people of European heritage are a tiny minority and increasingly minorities in their own lands, bourgeois notions of fair play and orderly debate are anachronism. We see that whenever a populist candidate or party wins power. The rules go out the window and the ruling elite goes to war with the rebels, using any means necessary to stop them.

An orderly debate about what is best for the citizens of a country is impossible because the people in the ruling elite of the West define themselves in opposition to the notion of citizenship. That is what it means to be a post-nationalist Progressive. The whole point of it is to oppose those antiquated notions of citizenship. Those are exclusive and the new global person is open. Worse yet, citizenship is hierarchical, placing the interests of some over the interests of others. That is probably racist.

You can get a sense of this in the response to Tulsi Gabbard’s decision to run for the Democrat nomination in 2020. Civic nationalists are programmed to think she is bad, because she makes unapproved noises about economics. They will no doubt say she is a socialist. That is the result of being trapped in a forgotten era. None of that will matter to the people in charge, particularly those involved in Democrat politics. They see her as a threat to their conception of the new global citizen. Here’s an example.

“But Gabbard’s almost singular focus on the damage these wars inflict domestically, and her comparative lack of focus on the carnage they wreak in the countries under attack, is troubling. It is nationalism in antiwar garb, reinforcing instead of undercutting the toxic rhetoric that treats foreigners as less deserving of dignity than Americans.”

You will note two things that turn up in the Progressive criticism of Gabbard. One is her roots are inauthentic, as far as they are concerned. She does not have the appropriate struggle narrative. An essential element of the left-wing mindset is the assertion that only the oppressed have authenticity. Therefore, to assume a leadership position in the forever revolution of the oppressed, the leaders must have overcome oppression. Gabbard has lived the standard American middle-class life, so she can never be trusted.

The salient issue lies in that highlighted section. Gabbard’s opposition to fighting wars in the Middle East is pretty much the civic nationalist view. Those wars are not good for America or Americans. They may have some benefit to the ruling elite of the empire, but they have no benefit to Americans. Further, the people being sent to fight these wars are suffering for a cause that has no benefit to them. In other words, sacrificing for your people is noble and heroic. To suffer for strangers is pointless.

To the ideological core of the ruling elite, this is an abnegation of who they are, which is why you will hear lots of “this is not who we are” in response to her over the coming months. Just as the Left refused to defend Sanders against attacks from the Buckley conservatives in 2016, the Left will stand silent as the warmongers of neoconservatism hint that Gabbard is an alt-right antisemite. Her assumption that citizenship is a real thing implies that nations are real things and that is unacceptable in a post-nationalist world.

This is why civic nationalism is a dead-end movement. It is trying to reanimate an Enlightenment concept that was killed off by the post-war cultural revolution of the last fifty years. Reviving the old notions of civic identity is about as promising as reviving the monarchy in Germany. Thinking about it is a nice escape for those struggling to face the reality of identity politics, but that is all it is, a fantasy. The world created by the Left is a post-nationalist world and therefore a post-citizen world.

In fairness to the cosmopolitan globalists, they are not wrong about citizenship having no place in the future West. It can continue in the Visegrad countries that have escaped the migrant invasion, but even there it is more of a tribal response, an identity politics of an ethno-state, than civic nationalism. Otherwise, citizenship makes no sense in multicultural, multi-racial societies. Tribalism is not just part of the human condition, it is part of our biological reality, and therefore the future is some form of tribal politics.

Another glimpse of this will come from the alt-right, who will be enthusiastic supporters of Gabbard this year. They see her anti-war rhetoric as a sanitized version of their own opposition to Israel. In other words, there remains a great shallowness to the alt-right in these matters, but that shallowness is a glimpse of future politics. That is, who you are will be as much about who you oppose as who you support. Anyone familiar with the politics of Lebanon has a sense of what comes next for the multicultural democratic empire.

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Comments (Historical)

The comments below were originally posted to thezman.com.

151 Comments

AntiDem #86944 January 16, 2019 9:59 am 54
Recently I’ve been watching a lot of those digital over-the-air rerun channels (like MyTV, Cozi TV, etc.) that play old shows from the 50s to the 90s. One of them that I’ve been following is MASH, which I haven’t watched any of since the 80s. Watching it now is a very odd experience. It was a highly politically charged show at the time, soaked in liberal sentiment – but it’s an earlier iteration of liberalism that has now been discarded and forgotten. Its antiwar, anti-empire sentiments – the very core of Cold War-era liberalism – seem so distant that it’s hard to believe they came from the same movement. Not to mention all the other touches that seemed fine to postwar liberalism 1.0 that would be an outrage to version 3.0. An all-white cast! Jokes at the expense of a biological male who dresses like a woman! A Catholic priest who’s one of the good guys of the piece, and a portrayal of his religion that’s not relentlessly negative! You’d never see it today.Makes you wonder how much liberalism you *ever* see is genuine, and how much is just a bus they’ll get off of when they reach their destination. I’d say the best heuristic is: assume the most cynical, power-grabbing thing you can think of.
James_OMeara #86960 January 16, 2019 11:26 am 14
God bless, you, sir [?], for watching so we won’t have to (like S. Sailer reads the Times so we don’t have to). I tried watching MASH reruns but found it insufferable enough, though you are right about 1.0 v. 3.0 sentiments. 1.0 is like being stuck in a church fellowship hall, 3.0 is like a Chinese re-education camp.
Mcleod #86948 January 16, 2019 10:23 am 46
Tribalism is biological. What is tribalism? Close family first, then extended family, then language, then race, and finally religion. I spent one school year in the rural area where my mother is from. The farm we were rebuilding, my parents are conservative hippies, was part of an original grant that an ancestor of mine received for fighting in the revolution for North Carolina. Three brothers and their widowed sister came to claim four land grants for service in the revolution.The first day on the rural school bus I found out that I was related to everybody for about five square miles, and they knew who I was. School for an outsider from the left coast was not easy until one of these rural relatives, the kind of guy that was shaving in the fifth grade, beat the crap out of my tormentors. The reason? Our great grandmothers were sisters. That’s tribalism.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87048 January 16, 2019 4:52 pm 0
And–at least in this part of the empire–that is still not rare.
Carl B. #86942 January 16, 2019 9:58 am 45
All I know is the “White Tribe” is in deep, deep trouble going forward. And White elites stand ready to perform the estocada on a mortally weakened White Tribe – to the cheers of the Deep State. See the Steve King fiasco and Mitt Romney’s pile-on as an example. We are on our own.
BestGuest #87010 January 16, 2019 2:20 pm 2
That was both eye-opening and disheartening.
A.B. Prosper #87050 January 16, 2019 4:56 pm 7
There is no White Tribe, there are two tribes The White Right and the White Left with subgroupsThe GOPe is mostly part of the White Left and those that are not are with some justification terrified of anything that upsets the apple cart. Mostly because they are money cucks but also for the simple reason if the US goes tribal, it all ends , the grift is over and the nation for those that still believe in it goes with itA tribal US will end up like the Middle East with mutually hostile tribes fighting over everything and a lack of ideological purity having a good chance of resulting in death or expulsion. Bosnia x Rwanda X the Thrity Years WarThe US cannot survive a tribal war like that and thus one tribe must rule over the others.The problem is the Left which was the ruling tribe is beset with internal issues and losing power. They are not exactly desperate but they are freaked out as the coalition the use (Black, Hispanic, Cuck White, Commie, others) is unstable and the Commies in particular want power more than anything elseHowever many of the cucks won’t caucus with the Commies and they get power , the base shrinks and the Left becomes an ethnic party guaranteeing tribalismUltimately the best thing for the US would be a White Right takeover but the numbers aren’t quite there and more importantly the Right is unable to embrace ideology, responsible leadership or to learn to how to rule urban areas.If you take you have to run NYC as well as LA and Lagos unless you are willing to destroy them but White Kampuchea is on no ones menu right now.
Cornelius #87090 January 17, 2019 9:00 am 4
The fact that during a shutdown, the US Congress unanimously voted to condemn yet another “white supreemacy” straw-man (at the behest of the ADL) while simultaneously demanding that Jewish nationalism be praised and anti-anti-semitism be institutionalized, was the blackest of pills for me. I really try to fight off any knee jerk anti-semitism but this is really starting to get to me.
Shrugger #86940 January 16, 2019 9:53 am 41
A lot of people who will eventually come to our side of the fight are desperately hanging onto civic nationalism. They can’t break the colorblind trance they were put in when they were kids. They see any deviation as full-blown racism, as bad as a physical lynching. The thought that whites have a different, and better, culture, can never be explored. Steve King’s peers denounce him unanimously, except for one guy who thought the denouncement was too mild. One red pill at a time is taking too long.
Oldvannes #86955 January 16, 2019 10:58 am 17
“Eventually” is a big problem. The longer people sit on the fence or willfully ignore and reject hyWhyte interests the less and less they have to fight and sacrifice for. We’re gaining sentiment, but sentiment ain’t action. I’m no longer sure there’s a proverbial straw that will break the camel’s back.
Citizen of a Silly Country #86961 January 16, 2019 11:28 am 50
South Africa shows that whites will hold onto their colorblind CivNat dreams for a very, very long time, far longer than I would have imagined. I don’t know enough about the history so I could be wrong, but SA whites seem to be acting like the Jews in Nazi Germany. I suspect that they’ll meet the same fate. I don’t buy the whole Vox Day coming civil war stuff. South Africa, California, Texas, New Mexico, etc., point to whites quietly becoming minorities and hoping that their new masters treat them nicely.
Stina #86983 January 16, 2019 12:34 pm 9
I think VD underscores his prediction with the rising tide of push back in Europe. They are further along than we are, in much smaller countries, yet not so far as SA. Europe has stronger ties to nation-states than we do, though. Our concept of nation state was obliterated in 1787 and replaced with a collection of different nations.
Maus #87008 January 16, 2019 2:05 pm 9
Not quite clear on what you attribute to American history in 1787 that decreased our conception of the nation state. Prior to 1787, we were a loose federation of 13 sovereign states bound by a weak central government for purposes of defeating Great Britain and culminating in the Articles of Confederation. After 1787, we adopted the much more nation-oriented U.S. Constitution by ceding enumerated state powers to a federal government. Almost immediately the historical impetus to centralize government and forge a strong national identity began transforming the former colonies. Eventually, nationhood had to be prosecuted by a bloody civil war and federalism has almost entirely eclipsed states’ rights. So please clarify your comment.
Felix_Krull #87012 January 16, 2019 2:25 pm 19
They are further along than we are.On what parameter?Western Europe is +90% white, America 61%. The US homicide rate is five-six times that of Western Europe and at regular intervals you have riots leaving entire town centres in smouldering ruin.And in Europe, a term like ‘civic nationalist’ doesn’t even make sense, in Europe, ‘nationalism’ implicitly means ‘white nationalist’ and our guys are storming the legislatures all over the mainland. In Europe, we don’t distinguish between legal and illegal immigration, we want it ALL stopped – polls vary between 50-75% on the issue, depending on country and who’s doing the polling.Sorry to blackpill you even further, but America is the canary in the mineshaft, not France or Germany or Sweden.
Citizen of a Silly Country #87023 January 16, 2019 3:03 pm 18
Generally agree with you, except for one important point: Muslims.American whites are stupid for letting in millions of Mexicans, Central Americans and Asians.European whites are fucking suicidal for letting in millions of Muslims.Mestizos degrade Western civilization; Muslims destroy it.It’s almost like back in the late 1990s, German, French, English and other European leaders woke up to the fact that they were way behind the United States in the race to replace their own people with low-grade foreigners. Knowing they wouldn’t be able to catch up, they decided to import the absolute worst people possible: Muslims and, to a lessor degree (for now) sub-Saharan Africans.Kind of like coming late to the party where everyone is already a bit tipsy, so they decided to chug Everclear.Muslims very likely make up 20% (and probably more) of the births in France. Blacks make up another 5% to 10%. Those totals will rise due to differing birthrates. Even with zero immigration (not likely), the under-40 population of France (you know, the people who blow stuff up and fight in the streets), will be at least 25% Muslim and 10% African in a few decades.And that’s without immigration. Throw in even modest immigration and the Muslim total rises to 30%, maybe even 33%-35%, with the African number rising to the low teens. Combined, you’re talking about an absolute minimum of 40% of France’s young people being Muslim or African – or, good Christ, both – in a generation or so.Sweden’s demographics don’t look much better.Whites in the United States are good and truly fucked. I agree. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that Western Europe isn’t a decade or two away (if immigration continues at all) from being just as screwed, if not more so.Personally, I’d rather take on a bunch of squatty, lazy Mestizos than a bunch of Muslim fanatics.
Felix_Krull #87027 January 16, 2019 3:20 pm 7
The Mohammadans are an asset, not a liability. By being so repulsive, they prevent integration. Their odious religion is the main reason Europeans have woken up to the danger now, when they’re less than ten percent of the population. Also, they aggressively self-segregate, so there’s very little miscegenation going on, at least here in Denmark.Had they been relatively inoffensive Hispanics – or worse yet, intelligent and industrious Orientals – I don’t think we’d have seen the surge in nationalism we see in Europe today.Don’t fool yourself into thinking that Western Europe isn’t a decade or two away (if immigration continues at all) from being just as screwed, if not more so.Try five or six decades.But it won’t come to that. The deportations will start long before.
Citizen of a Silly Country #87033 January 16, 2019 3:50 pm 14
Oh, you’re Danish. Enough said. Well done. And good points about Muslims waking people up. Hope that you’re right. (Denmark certainly seems to have been roused from its slumber.) European countries still have the numbers on their side. You can fix the problem within the current system. That option is no longer available to American whites.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87042 January 16, 2019 4:37 pm 0
Agreed.
Chief #87011 January 16, 2019 2:20 pm 25
There is literallyZEROchance that the coming minority white population in the West will be treated with anything even close to the respect, or forced deference, let alone given the attempts at “understanding”, that we have afforded the, let’s say, more heavily pigmented while we were still the majority. We need to snap to, and quickly. And it would also help if we got mean.
Citizen of a Silly Country #87024 January 16, 2019 3:05 pm 17
No, they will not. Whites are about to learn why peoples throughout history had fought and died to create their own homelands. Being a minority sucks.
Libertymike #87032 January 16, 2019 3:49 pm 9
Don’t count us out. There are too many Daltons, Wade Garrets, Tom Doniphons, Shanes, Joe Starrets, and Josie Wales who will carry the day.
Felix_Krull #87013 January 16, 2019 2:28 pm 7
Vox is crazy. Erratically brilliant, but mad as a hatter, and his followers are a bunch of Red Dawn larpers.
A.B. Prosper #87014 January 16, 2019 2:29 pm 21
SA rural Whites are quietly preparing to go down fighting which they will. Its far more Warsaw Ghetto than Boxcars. They’ll probably be wiped out but if they are determined enough, maybe they can salt the earth on the way downThe reason we assume this is not the case is the media doesn’t report anything that doesn’t serve the globalists corporate narrative.If you want proof, note the complete lack of coverage of the Yellow Vests who are left by our standards are populists through and through.France is on the verge of a shooting civil war and you have to go back channel to hear a thing about it.
Libertymike #87034 January 16, 2019 3:51 pm 5
Witness all of the traffic cameras which have been smashed.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87044 January 16, 2019 4:41 pm 10
Not to mention the reports yesterday that the banks have stopped withdrawals–even from ATMs–in response to the Yellow Vests’ request that everybody withdraw their money from banks to collapse the system. It was also reported yesterday that the police in France have been issued live ammo. Specifically around the Arc de Triomphe (but I’m assuming elsewhere as well).
A.B. Prosper #87053 January 16, 2019 5:28 pm 6
If it goes to Madame Guillotine I hope the Yellow Vests are thorough and remember its not just men that are corrupt but institutions
williamwilliams #87043 January 16, 2019 4:40 pm 9
A large proportion of the most pro-active and skilled South African whites have already left the country. Most of those who remain enjoy a higher standard of living than they could expect if they were to start a new life abroad. The economic seduction of a large pool of cheap labor remains strong, and may well prove to be the undoing of more than one formerly-white society.
Teapartydoc #86943 January 16, 2019 9:59 am 31
There’s an analogy between civic nationalism and how churches are run these days. Most of the lib churches have been run into the ground because of the kind of outreach programs they run. They go chasing after potential parishoners, and completely neglect the flock in the pews. Those people in the pews see this and quietly, slowly leave. And this only accelerates the problem because the church leadership sees an empty pew and proceeds to push harder in the outreach programs that caused the pew to empty in the first place. IOW, instead of going after the lost sheep of their flock, they run after wild goats. Next thing you know the only things in the pews are wild goats, and you have a wild goat church full of all manner of wild goat. Next the lack of homogeneity interferes with every fundamental aspect of function and chaos sets in. Then the place isn’t even fit for the wild goats.It’s just like charity when done by families. You take care of your own first. Then the others.
Carl B. #86946 January 16, 2019 10:05 am 6
“Churchianity” is dead.
pyrrhus #86956 January 16, 2019 11:12 am 6
You mean “Churchianity” is death, and its adherents will not survive…
JR Ewing #86992 January 16, 2019 1:18 pm 12
Thing is, these lib churches aren’t trying to make any converts, at all. All they care about is virtue signaling that they’re not *that* type of Christian. They just meet on Sunday to talk about their therapist in the sky, but no one has to go to the same therapist that they do. They just need to agree that the lib church people aren’t racist.
Dutch #87029 January 16, 2019 3:41 pm 3
“Therapist in the sky”. Good one. I’m stealing it.
Shrugger #86996 January 16, 2019 1:24 pm 7
Exactly what happened to the nominally Lutheran church I left. Hired a heathen pastor and became heathen. The new pastor is like you-know- who in the bunker, cooking up all sorts of schemes to bring in new, vibrant congregants. I suspect she will move on once her paychecks stop cashing.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87047 January 16, 2019 4:49 pm 2
Get out now. I had to. It *can* be done.
A.B. Prosper #87054 January 16, 2019 5:29 pm 0
Remember Matthew 18:20 in situations like this.
Citizen of a Silly Country #86950 January 16, 2019 10:32 am 27
Citizenism is the one issue that I have with Steve Sailer, whom I respect immensely. Steve just won’t give up Civic Nationalism. I don’t know if it’s a boomer thing or he fears that he would lose his position as the top “dark matter” intellectual if he crosses the white identity line. (Despite never using Steve’s name, many writers use Steve’s ideas. Steve has influence, something he might lose if he moved in a tribal direction.)Steve seems to be a pretty laid back guy who prefers incrementalism, so I understand his reluctance to move away from CivNat to white identity politics. (It took me awhile to make the same move.) And I’ve always felt that Steve was using CivNat as a triple bank shot to keep whites in the control of the country.But the demographics have changed. The ferocity of the attacks against whites has grown dramatically over the past decade. Steve is fully aware of this, yet he continues to write as though all of our problems can be solved if we just show the other side our superior facts and logic.Steve still acts as though we’re in a college debate instead of the raced-based bar fight that we’re in. Forget bringing a knife to a gun fight; Steve is bringing debate notes to a race riot.Steve is far too smart to not see that CivNat won’t work and is far too late to try anyway. Yet, he continues to promote it. Why?
Wolf Barney #86981 January 16, 2019 12:29 pm 3
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen that Sailer has been promoting “citizenism” lately. I remember his debate many years ago with Jared Taylor. Around that time he used to talk about it a lot. Now, I don’t see much about it.
3g4me #87063 January 16, 2019 6:29 pm 4
Sailer’s a smart guy, but as you note he refuses to step over the line. Always the clever phrase, the gentle mockery, the insistence that reason, logic, and humor will win the day. I am so OVER that crap. And his boomer/TradCon/fake American commentariat endlessly debating the same thing, in the same terms, week after week after week. There are a few there worth reading, but not enough anymore for me to justify spending my time there. I’ve never been one for endlessly spinning my wheels . . . I still scan his posts, but that’s about it.
Dupont Circle #87077 January 16, 2019 10:30 pm 2
Steve hates the idea if you wanna make an omelet you gotta break a few eggs.
Diversity_Heretic #86941 January 16, 2019 9:54 am 18
Another aspect of tribal identity is religion. Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindu idolater, apparently as a result of a choice made as an adult. Will the Christian churches in the United States finally show some resistance and tell their members that they cannot, as Christians, vote for a Hindu idolater as a president? And I would prefer the Hohenzollerns to the present leadership of Germany!
DeBeers Diamonds #86957 January 16, 2019 11:13 am 5
We’ve had several Unitarians as President, and no one brokered much opposition to a Mormon. Ironically, Hindus recognize the Trinity while Jews don’t.
Toddy Cat #86962 January 16, 2019 11:28 am 9
If Gabbard comes around on the Second Amendment, I’d certainly vote for her, if Trump gets primaried by some zero like Romney. I’ll grit my teeth and put up with the Hinduism – I mean, Gabbard can convert, but cucking is a permanent condition, or so it seems with guys like Romney.
Epaminondas #86965 January 16, 2019 11:32 am 13
Once elected, Gabbard would have no chance at accomplishing any of her primary agenda items. Look at what the Establishment have done to a powerful man like Trump. The press would gobble her up.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87046 January 16, 2019 4:45 pm 7
The Dem establishment will not allow her to be nominated. Just like Bernie.
DeBeers Diamonds #86967 January 16, 2019 11:37 am 21
Gabbard is 3/4ths white and pretends to be an Asian. Nikki Haley pretends to be a white Southerner. Which of them pulls off the act better?
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87045 January 16, 2019 4:44 pm 7
I think we’ve probably had our last peaceful presidential election. Everybody knows it already–but only unconsciously–that voting is precisely the mechanism by which “they” can gain power over “us,” and as soon as that knowledge becomes conscious, which it will, then the population as a whole will abandon voting.
Stina #86985 January 16, 2019 12:37 pm 7
Hindus recognize the Trinity while Jews don’t. Hinduism is a smorgasbord of religions, so it’s not too surprising they’d accept one more. It’s the “only God” that trips them up.
Dutch #86995 January 16, 2019 1:21 pm 7
Members of the somewhat evangelical (Asian) Indian church that shares our sanctuary, like to describe Hinduism as a sort of spiritual cafeteria. There is no structure to the thing, just go up and help yourself to whatever you feel like that day.
Carrie #87005 January 16, 2019 1:48 pm 2
DeBeers:Who are the Unitarians to whom you refer ?Curious.
DeBeers Diamonds #87018 January 16, 2019 2:38 pm 3
Adams, Jefferson, Adams, Fillmore, Lincoln, Taft
BestGuest #87009 January 16, 2019 2:18 pm 10
Modern-day Unitarianism bears no resemblance the Unitarianism of the 19th C. (I reckon we can say that about a lot of things, can’t we? ) The recent trend has been towards stripping out every last remnant of Christianity and adding the symbols and practice of virtually every other practice on the planet. We have friends that attend the the same church that Emerson did. I doubt Emerson would recognize it today. Of course it’s just a stones’ throw from the Paulist Center which strives to outdo it in terms of sheer Heresy.
A.B. Prosper #87016 January 16, 2019 2:31 pm 3
Mormons are Christian, better than most Protestants and actually being dutiful although they are albeit whack on doctrine. That said as someone on Vox Day’s blog put it, most churches are 501C3 Non Prophet so they won’t say much
MikeCLT #86939 January 16, 2019 9:51 am 18
Z-Man, You are outdoing The Derb in the “We Are Doomed” department. However, I cannot say that you are wrong.
Primi Pilus #86975 January 16, 2019 12:13 pm 24
We must plot out a way ahead, otherwise we can only sink into despair. I see it happening with some few of my like-minded friends; I feel it myself. We have to do this if for no other reason than to maintain sanity. I believe we can’t give in, even if it means we just go down fighting in what might be a lost cause … this go around.Far back I recall something in Sartre’s fictional writings about a Frenchman deciding go join up and die with a group of Chasseurs as the Germans over-ran their nation.I find I’m not that fatalistic about our situation, though …. yet. I think we have greater reserves of will than are apparent, and so many more who don’t want to go where the Elites and their leftist warrior-priests are driving us.But to do this, we must move from where we stand now, debating, discussing and dissecting, to some place else.(Note: No criticism of those capturing, highlighting and analyzing the decay and our internal enemies; this is an essential part. But we must move onward, or allow ourselves to be exterminated.)
Maus #87006 January 16, 2019 1:51 pm 26
I, too, find myself on the precipice of a paralyzing depression over the events unfolding in the past few years. The anti-white sentiment has accelerated to the point that merely having ever expressed a so-called toxic opinion condemns one to an economical and social opprobrium. My friends have long noted that while I like to think and talk, I have a bias against action (a fancy way of saying that I procrastinate). But I am tired of stewing in frustration, anger and disgust at the filth who have destroyed our once great culture and its political expression in the west. What I must do is cultivate the habit of fortitude and ACT.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87041 January 16, 2019 4:32 pm 16
Just don’t act before the proper time (you’ll know when that comes) or by doing the wrong thing(s). The future is by no means certain. Extrapolating from present conditions along a linear path into the future is by no means a “safe bet.” The future is always surprising. Nor are we helpless or stupid people.
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman #87040 January 16, 2019 4:28 pm 10
Nor can I say that Zman is wrong, but I also can’t say that he is right on this one.The future is never a linear continuation of the present. What is happening now will not always be happening. Nor will it necessarily lead to where it *seems* to be leading at the present. Too many other things can happen, not the least of which is already underway: a worldwide currency crisis. And the Grand Solar Minimum and global cooling, which is already underway. When the crunch comes–which is must–then we shall see who gets to say in Western countries.ZMan may be right, but the present trend will almost certainly not lead to where *anybody* thinks it will.
Steve #86978 January 16, 2019 12:24 pm 17
Z Man, you say “there remains a great shallowness to the alt-right in these matters.” I’ve spent some time reading and listening to prominent alt-righters, and what I hear is anti-immigration and anti-war rhetoric along with deep concern for the economic and social plight of average Americans (i.e., anti neoliberal global economics). This is chapter and verse of Trumpism. They also, of course, overlay on top of all of this white identity advocacy and opposition to Jewish/Israeli influence in US foreign and domestic politics (“anti-semitism”), neither of which is in the Trumpist canon. it seems to me that the “shallowness” of the alt-right canon is largely limited to the call for a “white ethnostate,” in particular, the absence of a feasible path to said state. What other shallowness do you see in their position?
Felix_Krull #87021 January 16, 2019 2:56 pm 3
the “shallowness” of the alt-right canon is largely limited to the call for a “white ethnostate,” As Devon Tracey – The Atheist Roo – said about the white ethnostate: “It’s like wishing the girls in Mortal Combat were real, because they’re hot. Nice thought, ain’t gonna happen.”
A.B. Prosper #87056 January 16, 2019 5:41 pm 3
It can if weakness is not allowed and s single ideology is enforced. You have to have to be a an authoritarian state willing to use force and willing to inflict human suffering in fundamentally innocent people This isn’t possible until the tribal warfare phase which is just starting to heat up and will require the Right actually have an ideology and an ethos which they lack Waiting for it happen though? Its not gonna happen
Felix_Krull #87065 January 16, 2019 6:33 pm 5
Maybe. It’s not like people haven’t been hustled around in the twentieth century, but creating a white ethnostate in America would require population transfers that would make Stalin take a deep breath.As several bloggers have noted, part of the muh human rights scam, is the right of POCs to live among white people.will require the Right actually have an ideology and an ethos which they lackI’m actually less worried on that account.Europeans, and, a fortiori, British and Americans, have had the poisonous luxury of being able to dismiss race. When you’re so undisputedly on top of the pile as whitey, you can indulge in ethics and philosophy and stuff, and you get muh human rights and the white man’s burden.At the moment, white people don’t really feel threatened by POCs, not on the visceral level. Like with dogs, they sometimes bite, but they’re not going to take over the shop any day soon.Once that feeling of invulnerability dissipates and history reasserts itself, we’ll see if we’re still as vicious as we were in the last century. I’m a great believer in biology, and as the Commies found out in WWI, what you believe in, ultimately matters a lot less than your tribe.
Citizen of a Silly Country #87075 January 16, 2019 10:13 pm 5
Yep, being on top for around 500 years will make you weak, sooner or later.From around 1500, whites were on a winning streak to about, well, now. That’s a very long time. Granted, for the first couple of hundred years, we still felt as though we just protecting ourselves, but certainly by ~1800 (probably before), we knew than no other people could match us.That level of success always breeds failure. It’s why we felt perfectly comfortable engaging in horrendous civil wars amongst the various European peoples.Whites in Western Europe, the United States, Canada and ANZAC are like trust fund kids. Talented, but living off the success of our forebearers and not too sure why we’re here. We’ve never had to fight for something, never earned anything, so we seek fulfillment in any trendy cause or religion that comes our way.
Larkin Lover #87028 January 16, 2019 3:30 pm 1
Right, I took exception to the accusation of “opposition” to Israel. It’s not an opposition to Israel per se, rooted in some anti Jewish prejudice, but an opposition to the thrall in which Zionist interests hold our foreign policy. This is not fringe quackery, as evidenced by the mearshimer and Walt book. I’m sure Z knows all this; perhaps he’s jockeying for some mainstream position.To interpret their position, as I understand it, alt right pundits view Zionist power as a mere subset of broader domination of US domestic policy, extending to immigration policy, media bias, etc. the attitudes range from reasonable to paranoid ZOG conspiracy hysteria.
Larkin Lover #87030 January 16, 2019 3:43 pm 1
Do you guys find my remarks tiresome?
Roger U #87052 January 16, 2019 5:22 pm 3
No. I’m new here, but I think alt-right might mean something a little bit different when they use it than when you do. For example, in the article Z-Man says the alt right will support this mixed race democrat because she’s anti war, but the alt right I’m familiar with wouldn’t.
Alzaebo #87062 January 16, 2019 6:23 pm 2
Nope. I come here to hear the adults talk- adults like you.
Kentucky Headhunter #86949 January 16, 2019 10:23 am 17
Gabbard spoke against the gay agenda in the past, how the hell did she get elected in Hawaii? Gabbard was a visible force against same-sex marriage, and in 2004 spearheaded a fight in the state against a same-sex union measure. “To try to act as if there is a difference between ‘civil unions’ and same-sex marriage is dishonest, cowardly and extremely disrespectful to the people of Hawaii,” she said at the time. “As Democrats, we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists.”
Corn #86958 January 16, 2019 11:15 am 8
“Gabbard spoke against the gay agenda in the past, how the hell did she get elected in Hawaii?”I’ve actually had discussions about this with a couple people who live or were raised in Hawaii. According to them the various Asian/Polynesian peoples who populate Hawaii often hold more traditional views on marriage and family. I believe (but I’m not sure) that the Mormons own or operate a university in Hawaii. Hawaii is one of the few states without a state lottery. I was told however, that Hawaiians vote Democrat on economic issues (historically unions wrested political power away from the planters)) and tribe (we all know most non whites are Democrats).The people I talked to though said Hawaiians are surprisingly conservative on marriage and family issues.
DeBeers Diamonds #86971 January 16, 2019 11:52 am 16
They get rather testy if a white person calls themselves “Hawaiian” which is a magic word reserved for “Native Hawaiians”. Haoles and hapas must use “Hawai’i resident”. I wish we could do the same here, and call the 40% of the country what they are “paper citizens”.
BadThinker #86984 January 16, 2019 12:35 pm 8
South Park had a great takedown of Hawaii in the season 16 episode “Going Native”
bpromethiusb #87073 January 16, 2019 8:55 pm 2
Gabbard’s background is actually Hindu. Go figure…
Nathan #86982 January 16, 2019 12:31 pm 14
In the spirit of anti-Colonialism, we need to cut Hawaii free. Useless state that gives us bad politicians and activist judges who really love “refugees,” but somehow Syrians and Somalians never get settled there.
BestGuest #87017 January 16, 2019 2:36 pm 5
I know a kid (brother of a friend) who went to Hawaii as part of one of those programs where they pay down your student debt for teaching in an “underserved” area. Mind you, this kid grew up in Dorchester and thought a tropical holiday would be a breeze. He made it through the end of one term. He’d buy his students flip-flops and their feckless “mothers” would sell them and send the kids back to school shoe-less the next day. Cured him.
Libertymike #87036 January 16, 2019 4:03 pm 1
Didn’t he experience and observe heaping piles of dysfunction growing up in Dorchester?
BestGuest #87039 January 16, 2019 4:24 pm 1
I’m not in a position to say. He grew up in the last redoubt of white RC honky-town. There are parts that were lovely. Savin Hill was not only nice, but posh. People still come from miles around for “Dorchester Days.” The Richard family who lost their son in the bombings live there (transplants from Salem) as do many others.
Max #86977 January 16, 2019 12:16 pm 16
“An orderly debate about what is best for the citizens of a country is impossible because the people in the ruling elite of the West define themselves in opposition to the notion of citizenship. ” It’s becoming stranger and stranger to argue with liberals. I used to have policy debates with liberals, but they no longer care about specific outcomes of policy. Open borders and multiculturalism good, Orange man bad. White men bad. Global warming will kill us all. Green energy good. I find them just remarkably uninformed.
Hoagie #86997 January 16, 2019 1:25 pm 14
I find them remarkably well programmed.
Dutch #87004 January 16, 2019 1:46 pm 13
You can almost see the “if—>then” processing loops going on in their conversations.
Nathan #86979 January 16, 2019 12:26 pm 13
I started to see the cracks in the left’s view of citizenship in the late aughts. I saw a prog on TeleviZION talking about protecting American workers by cutting H1B’s, but then he added, “But Indians deserve jobs too.” It was like a sci-fi movie where the robot has to act on two contrary commands and sparks start flying out of its head.It was summed up well when Irishman Robert Reich said we didn’t want new jobs going to “White male construction workers.”https://youtu.be/duQDVTczGbAThe problem with citizenship and CivNat is that too many of the people who would benefit from pro-working American policies would be Whites, and that’s unacceptable. Dubya became a media darling when he said “America is a country for everyone.” I.e., your citizenship is worthless, since every brown shopper is just as entitled to it as you, native born American.
JR Ewing #86999 January 16, 2019 1:34 pm 14
“Indians deserve jobs too”This is the thing I struggle with most trying in to understand them. I like to think that I’m decent at the Leftist Turing Test: I understand why they want to “help people” by making transfer payments… I understand why they really do think the environment is crumbling… I understand why they think that two homos can play house just like a man and a woman… I disagree with it all, but I understand the reasoning.But what I DON’T understand is this idea that there is no difference between American citizens and anyone else in the world. Sure Indians deserve jobs, IN INDIA. Why in a discussion fo AMERICAN government policy do they think its necessary to take anyone else into consideration but AMERICANS?Someone mentioned in yesterday’s thread the “magic cookie jar” theory, which is something I’ve thought about myself. These people think that America is the way it is solely by chance and it will always go on being America, therefore it’s selfish and RACIST! to deny the magic cookie jar to someone else.I can understand the mentality if I start with the MCJ premise, but I can’t get to a point where I can understand the MCJ itself. There’s a leap of logic I cannot make.
Alzaebo #86963 January 16, 2019 11:30 am 13
If a perfectly sculpted multiculti, feminine, blue dog Democrat like Tulsi is now verboten, that tells me they’re getting ready to throw the gates wi-i-ide open. Apres Trump, Le Deluge.
Epaminondas #87074 January 16, 2019 9:58 pm 5
Definitely. The hammer is about to come down.
Epaminondas #86959 January 16, 2019 11:25 am 13
“…citizenship makes no sense in multicultural, multi-racial societies.”The poor fools in service organizations like the Rotarians have yet to realize this. I understood in the late sixties that something very wrong had happened to our society. And I could not believe that our fathers would not go to the matt on something as basic as freedom of association. Yet, many of these former soldiers who had faced the Wehrmacht were now acting as though this meek surrender to racial egalitarianism would somehow work out fine because it was the moral thing to do. In other words, The Greatest Generation© were emasculated by their dedication to constitutionalism…Civic Nationalism. Many conservative boomers, myself included, were devastated by that surrender and kept our mouths shut in the face of the radicalism we faced in the seventies. But one thing we said to ourselves constantly was: “I will not lift a finger to support this rotten society. And if I can make enough money to buy my way out of the PC rabble, then I won’t have to get even…my wealth and anti-PC lifestyle will be my revenge.”
Dutch #86966 January 16, 2019 11:36 am 7
What I saw was the attitude that “these kids are acting like children, they will get over it, give ‘em some slack and they’ll figure it out”. But they never did. Remember that the older generation saw the Great Depression and WW2 do that to their parents and themselves, forcing them on to the straight and narrow. Their kids, the Boomers, never got their version of 1929 and Pearl Harbor, so they never got forced into making good choices. Keep in mind, too, the wives became “equal partners” after WW2. Not in a bra-burning way, but as an influence at home, encouraging “tolerance” and “acceptance”. So here we are now.
Epaminondas #86970 January 16, 2019 11:51 am 6
What I saw was that the children of liberal parents became radicals. More of The Greatest Generation© were liberal than I had realized. Perhaps they themselves had not realized it. Their children drove the point home. I despised them. I’m not speaking in generalities here, but in reference to individuals I personally knew.
Dutch #86990 January 16, 2019 1:14 pm 2
I am guessing there were some genuinely liberal parents out there in the ‘50s and early ‘60s (just before my time and my firsthand experience), but there were probably quite a few more passive parents who were not passionately “liberal”, but who did not push back. In the late ‘60s (what I saw), the many who didn’t push back were overwhelmed by the attitudes of the culture and their own kids. The widespread passivism to liberalism in the ‘50s turned into a gateway for the hippy culture to run amok a few years later. Just my slightly informed provincial opinion, YMMV.The M*A*S*H* tv show cited above was an attempt to explain the hippy generation to their parents, along with an indoctrination to the cause made palatable to older audiences. I don’t remember watching it much, but everyone’s parents were doing so.
Epaminondas #86993 January 16, 2019 1:19 pm 2
I had come to hate TV by then.
My_Comment #87072 January 16, 2019 7:56 pm 4
It isn’t just the greatest generation that caved and never fought back. It is true of all generations. At some stage whites completely lost the ability to fight back to preserve their country and culture. Key causations are probably the mixture of a nearly monolithic assault by almost all institutions on the country combined with a mobile citizenry that wants to be left alone. The US population is made up of people who found a better place so they moved there. Once here they moved a lot: westward expansion, farms to city, city to suburb, suburb to city, state to state.
dad29 #86954 January 16, 2019 10:53 am 13
the toxic rhetoric that treats foreigners as less deserving of dignity than Americans Easily the most disgusting truth-twist of the last …ooohhhhhhhhhh…24 hours. But of course, these jackwads are PROFESSIONAL truth-twisters..
DeBeers Diamonds #86938 January 16, 2019 9:46 am 11
Gabbard has a strange background. The Platonic ideal fulfillment of Boomerdad conservatism. She’s a highly ambitious and man-eating GI Jane, and it wouldn’t surprise me that she privately regrets at least part of that given that she isn’t likely to ever have children. Gabbard is simply the adult-sized version of gunthots like Kaitlin Bennett.
thezman #86945 January 16, 2019 10:05 am 52
I must admit, I’m instinctively repulsed by Gabbard. There’s something unnatural about here. Of course, that’s reinforced by her bio: “Gabbard was raised in a multicultural and multireligious household. Her father is of Samoan and European ancestry and an active lector at his Catholic church. Her mother, who was born in Decatur, Indiana, is of European descent and a practicing Hindu. Tulsi chose Hinduism as her religion while she was a teenager.” That’s a dog’s breakfast of multicultural pieties. I think my revulsion, however, is rooted in my natural male fear of female sociopaths.
DeBeers Diamonds #86947 January 16, 2019 10:17 am 10
Steve Sailer loves bringing up the 1950s liberal dream of the Hawaiian Golden Man. Gabbard, not Obama, may just be that. But it may pass only a single generation before the PRC takes over. Given that Hawaii never votes GOP because of anti-white racism, I wouldn’t be sad to see them go. By contrast, I have to suppress my instinct to prefer “femme fatale”.
JR Wirth #86980 January 16, 2019 12:27 pm 40
It never ceases to Amaze me, especially in my bluer than blue area, how left wing yuppies can mock Christianity for a hundred different reasons, but think of Himalayan sea salt and nan bread when hinduism comes up. I swear 80% of white yuppie Subaru driving liberalism has to do with exotic food options, while living in a 98% white neighborhood.
Dutch #86991 January 16, 2019 1:18 pm 16
It’s always about the food, isn’t it? At the micro level, the multiculti-globohomo movement seems to be a stomach and taste buds thing, most of all.
Tykebomb #87026 January 16, 2019 3:11 pm 19
Only in an obese nation is “but the food” a pious response to your daughter’s murder.
Ryan #87031 January 16, 2019 3:48 pm 3
I completely agree with the unnatural part. It’s like uncanny valley:https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23230970-500-exploring-the-uncanny-valley-why-almosthuman-is-creepy/“we’re freaked out by faces that are like ours, just not enough.” Gabbard’s personality is like a human personality, just not enough.But on the other hand, the fact that she’s pissed off by her fellow soldiers being sent to die in pointless wars is remarkably sane. This was a long time ago, mid 2000’s, Paul Wolfowitz visited the green zone in Iraq and a rocket slammed into a hotel room right below the one he was staying in. Conspiracy theory at the time was that American soldiers tried to kill him as an act of revenge. Not saying it’s true, just that if true it’s remarkably sane.Gabbard is confusing, definitely sane, but definitely something is wrong.
Primi Pilus #87085 January 17, 2019 3:36 am 3
Lust for power and control …. … and not really being one of us regular “folks” Immensely dangerous, just like the rest of the uber-ambitious.
JR Wirth #86976 January 16, 2019 12:15 pm 10
Gabbard is the symptom of a problem. Nowhere in either party is there a foothold of non-imperialism. The hypocrite Obama would jive around in his campaign about middle east wars, as he droned people every five minutes, and actually said “I’m really good at killing people.” No need to imagine what the NYT would say if Trump let that one slip. Trump is even worse, hiring that mustached freak show John Bolton. He’ll kill us all if Trump listens to him.So now you have this featherweight, Gabbard, saying these things and there is such a hunger on the left and the right to extricate ourselves from all these foreign entanglements, that she’ll get a thousand free points from all over the place. I like what she’s saying, and she’s my favorite Democrat so far because of it. But supporting her would be as pleasant as drinking Peppermint Schnapps.What will really set back the elite, in a big way, is the return to 1970’s inflation, actually worse given our budget conditions, and forcing the govt. to live within its means. A few years ago for ever dollar of govt. spending 50 cents was on the credit card. I doubt that ratio has improved. It’s simply unsustainable. We will one day have to live within our means, and that’s when politics will really get interesting. A politician that tells groups of people, “no, the pie is gone.” No pie for your pie holes.
Dutch #87000 January 16, 2019 1:35 pm 5
Inflation will set back the elites. Deflation will set back the rest of us. “Living within our means” begets deflation. And the elites will protect their own. Deflation is the 1930s all over again, where commerce slows to a crawl and the average person lives off of savings until the money runs out. I am betting on deflation, especially as Trump is, at his core, a borrow-and-spend inflationist. “Orange Man Bad” and “do the opposite of everything he does” means that “living within our means” and a big deflation are in our future. A bit out-of-the-box thinking, I know, but I think when the SHTF, the elites have less than zero interest in doing anything for the rest of us, as long as we don’t burn them alive in their own houses. Oh, and BTW, the EBT cards will be gold in a deflation, they will be the meal ticket, and guess who won’t get any EBT cards?
JR Wirth #87020 January 16, 2019 2:47 pm 4
There will definitely be a deflationary period prior to the inflation, as asset inflation implodes. And by the way, we need it. I’m not paying 700k for a cracker box 1940s house in my neighborhood, even if I could swing it. I’m in the minority in that viewpoint, even though the last RE crisis was 10 years ago. But they’ll pretty much play the 2008 playbook only X 5, and blow up the place. People don’t see that asset price inflation is also inflation. The ultimate freedom, even during tyrannical times, is not owing anyone anything.
Dutch #87035 January 16, 2019 3:52 pm 2
JR, you describe the popular scenario. What if TPTB simply shut off the money spigot and the deflation becomes permanent? Selective foreclosures and EBT cards turned on and off here and there to control the rabble? The African model where most people end up living in hovels and the fortunate few party it up in a walled and guarded Capital City? I don’t see where the elites will feel it necessary to destroy “their” currency to save the likes of us (talk about killing a multitude of birds with one stone by prolonging the deflation), and keep in mind Capital City’s assets will remain inflated and valuable as well. Outer Palookaville will be a sh*thole and worthless, but what is that to them, other than as a means to control and put down the middle class rabble?
JR Wirth #87061 January 16, 2019 6:23 pm 2
Most of them won’t think they’re destroying the currency. They’ll think they’re just re-inflating the economy like in 2009. But it won’t be that way. They’re not smart people.They’re book smart but lack all common sense and understanding. Modern Monetary Theory is totally ensconced in their world view (think Economist Magazine, and people who read it like it’s biblical truth). They’ll hold to it, no question.What they will say is In 2008 it took X dollars via currency swapsand QE to reflate. This problem is five times bigger, therefore we’ll just pump X * 5 new liquidity in, and everything will be okay. And, for the first year, it will look very much like 2009, a terrible, recessionary year, but it will appear to be working, when they go down that road. There just won’t be enough liquidity pumped in from the top to stabilize the economy. The Fed will literally credit more than $2 trillion to the Treasury to issue one time SS checks to the entire population for retail stimulus. Instead it will frighten everyone, and cause further currency weakness.It won’t stabilize like in 2010, 2011. They’ll panic with early 70’s style capital controls as they try to figure out what to do. But at no time will they ever find a solution. Because the solution is just so basic. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, everything reverts to the mean.Capital’s value is in its scarcity. They don’t want to hear that. So the big question of the next five to seven years is, do we elect politicians who will appoint people who know this? Or, will everything just fly apart into a bloodbath in some modern day French Revolution? I have very little faith in the first outcome, because it relies on the population itself coming to it’s senses in mid-crisis.
Alzaebo #87067 January 16, 2019 6:38 pm 1
“Capital City’s assets will remain inflated and valuable as well”- you betcha. Our impoverishment makes their Elysiums priceless; we will kill to get a chance for a ticket. Better a maid cleaning toilets in Heaven than a streetcorner lord in Hell.
Din C. Nuffin #87049 January 16, 2019 4:54 pm -8
I admire John Bolton. He doesn’t put up with anyone’s BS. Hawkish or not, I still admire him.
Dutch #86952 January 16, 2019 10:41 am 10
What is citizenship if not allegiance to the tribe of your nation? In this tribal world, citizenship has traditionally been one of the greatest of tribal identities, in which personal responsibilities are fulfilled and personal benefits accrue, all to the benefit of the nation and its citizens. “Love it or leave it”, indeed. But don’t stay here, sucking off the national teat, while at the same time, tearing it down and inviting everyone in to strip the joint, economically and culturally.
Felix_Krull #87019 January 16, 2019 2:44 pm 7
What is citizenship if not allegiance to the tribe of your nation? It’s allegiance to the state. “Citizenship” means you can become tribe by having a piece of paper stamped by the proper civil servants. Tribal loyalty is allegiance to your people.
Dutch #87022 January 16, 2019 2:57 pm 3
“Our” people and “our” state used to represent pretty much the same thing, once upon a time. Divorcing the state from its people is a globalist’s wet dream. As is being pointed out today, citizenship makes no sense in a multicultural, multi-racial society. Render onto Caesar what is Caesar’s, render onto God what is God’s, and render onto each other what is shared by us. That’s how a nation-state becomes strong and vital. We need to form up and close ranks, and a nation that reflects who we are is so important. But that isn’t available to us any more, under the current set of circumstances.States are not perfect, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Felix_Krull #87025 January 16, 2019 3:11 pm 10
a nation that reflects who we are is so important.In a tribe, there’s no ‘who we are’. You’re either tribe or you’re not, it’s got nothing to do with your beliefs or values or policies, only blood and soil.A big problem with the American identity, is that America has truncated its history, cutting off the roots, when, for the noblest of reasons, the founders decided they’d take the best from Europe and leave all the tribal crap behind. Americans no longer trace their spiritual ancestry to Athens, but consider America created ex nihilo in 1783. And something that’s created out of noting is not very durable.I sometimes suggest that heritage Americans should insist on being called “European-Americans” rather than white Americans, just like the POC don’t want to be called black or brown or yellow. I don’t get many takers; most Americans are loathe to define themselves as Europeans.
Dupont Circle #87076 January 16, 2019 10:24 pm 2
“I sometimes suggest that heritage Americans should insist on being called “European-Americans” I’m in.
James LePore #86972 January 16, 2019 12:02 pm 9
Never date (or vote for) a woman you can hear ticking.
Primi Pilus #87087 January 17, 2019 5:29 am 8
Somewhat of a grab-bag response to the comments, given my re-reading them at 0330 when up with a fussy child:2nd Amdt comments above — Am currently temporarily residing in a rural and remote county in Southern Virginia. Sold home in rapidly bluing western state and left last fall after 40 yrs. Something is going on here different from what I’ve seen in my decades in the west, and in urban areas across this country, relative to the 2a, traditional behaviors, and black culture.This place is old tobacco lands, now heavily forested with a few small towns. People are materially different here, and that extends strongly to local blacks. For instance, their men appear accustomed to work; they wear work clothes and footwear, civilian camo pattern hunting jackets and orange hats during the hunting season which just ended. It’s not a rare occurrance; it’s all over here. Many appear to be “rednecks”, and hunt just like their white south Virginian neighbors. I have yet to see one with his waistband hugging his upper thighs.I was struck by how different they were from western and urban blacks … most here I’ve encountered are cordial, polite, and attend to their own business. I’ve encountered a sizeable sample in the rural byways and markets across the state. They drive well-used pickups, and many have in the back the aluminum dog boxes for transporting their hunting pack.I’ve encountered them in WalMarts at the gun and ammo counter, and even the young ones seem knowledgeable, and serious about what they are doing. I watched a couple of mid-twenties young males buying rifles there in the Shenandoah Valley, and was intrigued by their involvement (at variance with what I’d seen before) and in our short conversation got the feeling that they were strong supporters of this tradition and of their right to possess firearms. They were upgrading their kit for the upcoming season, and knew their subject.Frankly, I was stunned by what I encountered. Yes, I understand that people aggregate around and vote their skin … except for educated whites. And I certainly have no knowledge about their larger voting patterns. I have heard from those who know that some older ones working in an acquaintenance’s timber business are Trump supporters.So there is something different from the culture of my former home going on here.Of course, the whites here are different too — starkly and refreshingly so — from what I was used to in the (former) exploding urban center …. now over-run with recently displaced Californians. Neither pink nor green hair are regularly seen hereabouts, nor bare midriffs and “tramp-stamps”. The only hipsters I’ve seen are in Charlottesville, or Richmond.In my former home, the old, independent western ethic, and it’s trademark style of apparel, has long since vanished, replaced now with dyed hair, pierced bodies, soft-voiced males and intolerant feminists. That state has transfomed, and is now lost polically. Of course, I do see here the Dem gov and state party are eager to implement the same plan that eviscerated my former home state. They are working it hard, now.Tulsi Gabbard — Please don’t mistake participation in the military / National Guard, and multiple deployments, as meaning that any given individual has any sympathy for or commonality with our traditional yeomanry and legacy Americans — with our concept of independent, self-reliant, personally responsible and more-or-less free individuals. I spent decades among them, both in-state and involved with them in the military bureaucracy in the Z-Man’s “Imperial Capital.” They are not of us; they do not like us; Their allegiance is to the political class; their orientation on the elites to which they aspire; their will dedicated to the system that supports and gives meaning to their lives and livelihoods — all animated by the drives for power, position, prerogative, property and pleasure as they are.They are of a class; that class sees us as the proper objects of their attentions.I worked and walked among this class of “aspirants”. They generally don’t/didn’t come from any old and existing elite, as those certainly don’t go into the military …. these were the ones seeking membership, and they clog the upper reaches of the officer corps. Believe me, for many among them, the military service is not a venue of selfless service as we might have idealistically understood it in past generations; rather, it’s often a vehicle for personal advancement and gain, and (here is perhaps a difference), they are quite willing to do it at the expense of the freedoms, rights and liberty of the common, self-reliant and productive American.As an example of this type, who is of late coming out against Trump — who is the Deep State pushing in front of cameras to denounce him?? The retired generals — Allen, McChrystal et al. One only need look at Mattis’ resignation letter to see the corruption …. so —Ms / MAJ Gabbard opposes the 2nd Amdt; she is a Democrat who recently recanted her heresy on LGBTQ issues and same-sex marriage, and the left didn’t break her saber and march her out the gate alone into indian territory. She comes from the political caste, and shows all signs of this activism being her primary motivation — helping make us better whether we want it or not.Whether or not they pin the rose on her, or whether or not they fully trust or accept her, she is still one of them. And as I said, don’t be fooled by military affiliation or accomplishment; the selection process selects for this type as the pyramid tightens toward the top. Our General Officer / flag ranks are full up with those who single-mindedly endorse the goals, worldview and lifestyle of the elites / Deep State / swamp they serve.She is of the modern elite. She seeks position in the emerging matriarchal wing (probably the dominant wing) of the Deep State. She will seek to help and control us — for our own and for the nation’s good, and for the good of those elites. and what she helps usher in and cement will be nothing like our nation and culture as originally envisioned. This could not be more antitietical to the goals for any movement free Americans could support or endure.So please, don’t be fooled by her calls for martial disengagement for the good of the regular folks. This class, and the deep state they’ve supported, are not now and never will be in our corner.
Dan #87066 January 16, 2019 6:36 pm 8
Tulsi Gabbard is openly, blatantly and completely anti Second Amdendent. Gun rights are a nearly perfect litmus test for a politician. If they will willingly violate your right of self defense then they will happily violate ALL of your rights….and ship you off to the camps in boxcars. She has no business being in Congress let alone the White House.
LineInTheSand #87079 January 16, 2019 11:26 pm 2
Being Civic Nationalist is worse than being anti-2A. The Civic Nationalist, who is pro 2A, will accept immigrants who will reject the 2A. To save the 2A, you must preserve a white society. (I’m not saying that all whites are pro 2A. I’m saying, generally speaking, that only whites are pro 2A.)
Dan #87238 January 17, 2019 6:34 pm 0
Show me a pro 2A “open borders” nationalist. There may be a handful but certainly not many…and none of any significant influence I can think of.Importing new Demonrat voters and disarming us seems to go hand in hand ideologically.
Din C. Nuffin #87051 January 16, 2019 5:12 pm 8
I still enjoy Boxing, but beyond intellectual rationales, I now find myself rooting for the Russian fighter against the American black. Wasn’t so just a few years back. Did I become racist on some subconscious level? Or have I just grown tired of all the black BS?
sirlancelot #87002 January 16, 2019 1:43 pm 7
It’s amazing to see Legacy Americans clueless about their situation. Then again Boomers like myself have been brought up on media propaganda. It is appalling to watch those old TV shows. Could be whites just don’t want to admit they were wrong all these years ? They seem to be incapable of becoming honest with themselves even to their own detriment. If there is one bright light it’s the educated white starting to realize they too are slated for termination.
Issac #86988 January 16, 2019 12:51 pm 7
I diaagree with the view that the alt right is shallow to oppose Israel. Neocons are technically our dogs in their fight. If we want to stem the ire of dissident whites, Israel will have to put them down. You write about how few readers they have, but they have more than enough donors yet and will continue to provide many and public reasons for the white tribe to hate us. Hypocrisy animates the white soul like nothing else and there is no greater hypocrisy than the stalwart zionist who role plays a humanitarian at his adopted nation’s borders.
Alzaebo #87001 January 16, 2019 1:36 pm 1
What is to laugh is to think Israeli citizens have any more say in their country than we do. (That, and the idea that alt-right concern trolls give a flying fig about Palestinian rejects. I note that Palestinian Christians not heard about, either.)
Issac #87038 January 16, 2019 4:22 pm 9
The alt-right probably has no feelings about our struggle at all, but neither the average Israeli nor the average white American has an opinion that matters. But what does matter are our tribal politics. And when my tribe spends money on neocons, I fully expect the white tribe to elect anti-zionists. Neoconservatives aren’t nationalists and make nationalism impossible, except for us, so the only logical rebuttal to their influence by gentiles is to apply the anti-nationalist rhetoric of the neocon to us.Of course it’s all cynical, but that is tribal politics. As I have said before, I hold the position that my people have to bring our diaspora to heel or we will reap the anti-nationalism that we have sown and we will be at the mercy of a globalism which does not diffirentiate between us.
Alzaebo #87058 January 16, 2019 6:09 pm 0
Bravo! *standing ovation*We are one in this. Nobody should die for Pipelinestan or Weapons, Inc.“We” sow the same seeds. Can’t these Kapitalists compete without all the killing in your neighborhood? There was a time when both Israel and America were not just respected, but loved!
Ripple947 #86964 January 16, 2019 11:32 am 6
Tulsi’s form of Hinduism is a Hare Krishna offshoot cult led by one native Hawaiian named Chris Butler aka Jagad Guru Srila Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa. Her parents have been devotees for decades. Lots of info to be found on the search engine of your choice. Once this info becomes widespread her presidential ambitions are sunk. For starters:https://www.meanwhileinhawaii.org/home/investigative-series-on-the-science-of-identity-sect-and-tulsi-gabbard
Christine #87084 January 17, 2019 2:01 am 3
Thanks for sharing my series. Just a note – Butler is most certainly not Native Hawai’ian. He is a white man. His family moved to Hawai’i when he was a kid.
Ripple947 #87086 January 17, 2019 4:23 am 2
How cool that you comment on this blog. I thought Butler was a white guy born in Hawaii, thanks for the clarification.
Vegetius #86969 January 16, 2019 11:43 am 5
Can CivNat be a step on the way for conservatives and libertarians toward the dissident right, or must they make an ideological Great Leap across an ever-widening abyss, the other side of which they see Pepe, Spencer and Anglin waiting for them?
Citizen of a Silly Country #86973 January 16, 2019 12:09 pm 25
Having been there, I can say that for myself, it was a big leap. You have to face a very bleak future and, in many ways, mentally separate yourself for friends, family and neighbors. I suspect that it’s similar to giving up a religion that everyone you know belongs to without telling them. I have a great family and many friends, but in a way, I’m much lonelier than I was before making the leap. There’s a big side of me that I can’t share with people. They live in a different reality than I do.
Dutch #86998 January 16, 2019 1:25 pm 7
Amen, Citizen. Am there, doing that.
Whitney #87003 January 16, 2019 1:43 pm 7
Yes. Same here. I have some friends and family that call themselves conservative but they are still neck deep in wishful thinking…
calsdad #87080 January 16, 2019 11:34 pm 4
The problem is that so many people are just immersed in the bullshit that spews out of advertising, the news media, TV, movies – etc. – EVERY DAY.How do you counter that? I know a few people – VERY few – who actively work to counter all that horseshit by reading right wing and libertarian writers and blogs online. It takes a LOT of work though.For about 12 years I had an email list with about 20 people on it that I would daily send out stories, news articles and commentary about whatever the most prominent topics were of the day – from a definitely paleo right wing / libertarian viewpoint.I can tell that I saw people’s attitudes DEFINITELY change over time. I didn’t have to berate them – I just had to inundate they with opposing viewpoints.Which of course is exactly why the leftists are trying so mightily to eliminate all opposition viewpoints from the internet.They can’t have people getting exposed to dangerous ideas.I personally don’t think you change people’s minds with one good argument or by reading one good article. You have to lay down a base – and then just CONSTANTLY keep at them. Do that – and their attitudes will change. I saw it happen.
Libertymike #87037 January 16, 2019 4:19 pm 8
Last week, having some computer issues at work beyond my ability to rectify, I called my computer tech who I had not seen in a three years and discovered that he had swallowed a big, fat red pill. I was so excited! He had been a normie vanilla conservative.
3g4me #87068 January 16, 2019 6:42 pm 5
“There’s a big side of me that I can’t share with people. They live in a different reality than I do.”Excellently put. My husband and I have felt this for quite some time. His colleagues -at least some of them – share some of his attitudes, but he’s still very careful in what he says and just how far he can go. I’ve never been close to my side of the family so it isn’t a big problem for me, and I’ve cut off former ‘friends’ that do not support the future I want for my sons. We have one couple (she was initially my friend, now they’re both our friends) that we’re totally on the same page with, but otherwise your social life consists of internet acquaintances – or faking it in meat space, which I no longer have any patience for (never did, but at 60 I now have the excuse of old age).
A.B. Prosper #87055 January 16, 2019 5:37 pm -3
Civic Nationalism is what empires use to justify diversity and it has no place in a healthy or functional society. It needs to be replaced with real nationalism which has a strong ethnic componentRelying on Civ Nat to get you anywhere is about as useful as a steady diet of Stephan Molyenaux or Jordan Peterson. Its junk foodThe US being a bit unusual might, might manage Whites as the main and only important ethnic component as a de-facto Nazi Free White Nationalism but odds aren’t good. The US will probably just fall apart if it doesn’t go BrazilOn the other end Spencer and Anglin are creatures of the .Alt Left . They are going to see Vox Day , Steve Sailer and our own Z Man on the other side if the leap Right
thezman #87057 January 16, 2019 6:05 pm 4
Spencer is not on the Left. He is basically a paleocon who is indifferent to and uninformed on economic arguments. Anglin mostly a prankster.
A.B. Prosper #87059 January 16, 2019 6:22 pm -6
Regardless, neither of these guys are on our side. They are not enemies but they lack utility and discipline enough to be on our teamThe Charlottesville was caused almost entirely by allow Nat Soc and Alt Left types to hang with the .Alt Right . Those guys are pro White but an asshole is still an assholeAs I understand it Spencer seems to be a globalist in some respects albeit a very pro White one. The thing is if the US was 97% White I still don’t want to be ruled by the Left or Brussels or NYCIn Europe even if all the Dinudus were sent back, people need to be ruled by their own people, not some unaccountable corporation or some other nation at allI get the urge, its hard to be rich in a small country but people need to be ruled by their own and no one else.This might suggest the US should be several nations. Lincoln put an end to that last time but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen this time.This kind of sucks in some ways but I’d rather people on the other side of a continent have no say over my life. Local Local Local ought to be the motto
hokkoda #87071 January 16, 2019 6:58 pm 4
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The political realignment that is happening is between those who see the United States as a sovereign nation containing Americans and tied basically to the rule of law and constitutional governance vs. those who see what used to be the United States as Transnational Region 6 of the Global Commerce Guild run out of Brussels which contains remnants of the old world which must be destroyed or ethnically cleansed out of existence.It’s why Sanders and Trump really aren’t all that far apart in terms of their policies, only their rhetoric and level of State control over the economy. It’s why the Bushes and Clintons and Pelosies and Romneys and Flakes and Ryans and the Media all sing the same basic tune.There is no “alt right”. There is simply a group of people in the new Column A who are not in the new Column B.
Cornelius #87089 January 17, 2019 8:55 am 3
I listened to the recent FTN and McFeels threw some cold water on any seemingly alt-right support of Warren or Gabbard. They are anti-war in a sense but their real goal is merely to assist in the rebranding of US Imperialism and Military machine as humanitarian rather than combative. They’d rather it be used sort of like a global UN peacekeeping force; assisting global mass migration. Of course to do all of this would require combat to “keep the peace” and “protect human rights.” Same machine with new branding, Mission Statement, Code of Conduct.
TomA #87015 January 16, 2019 2:29 pm 3
As is becoming evident in Europe, vibrancy eventually begets a cauldron of chaos in which the elites currently wielding power start to worry about their security and demand a crackdown using State power. Inevitably, more than a few malcontents and innocents will get mowed down in the ensuing overreaction, and incipient tyrannists will exploit rising public fears in order to seize power. A successful tyranny needs Jackboots on the ground and ruthless oppression to ascend to power, and history teaches that there is really only one way to beat a tyranny.
BadThinker #86986 January 16, 2019 12:38 pm 3
The talking points were all sent around about her yesterday and the drive-bys are all doing the same story. https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-conservative-media-and-the-far-right-love-tulsi-gabbard-for-president?ref=home
Alzaebo #87007 January 16, 2019 2:00 pm 2
Daily Beast: “Assad’s Favorite Congresswoman Runs For President” She just won my vote, since we’ll be Syria, soon enough. Trump and Assad may be long lost brothers. Politics of Lebanon, indeed- the formerly Christian remnant of a Phoenician empire.
ffarkle #86951 January 16, 2019 10:35 am 3
Z-man may be correct that citizenship has no future in the West, although his view from Lagos-on-the-Bay does not prevail everywhere. Certainly it’s in tatters. And if it collapses completely, that will be a big step backwards for the world. Maybe the white tribe will finally build a floating Oceania, or maybe just BUY Australia and New Zealand and set up civic nationalism anew.
3g4me #87064 January 16, 2019 6:33 pm 1
” And if [citizenism] collapses completely, that will be a big step backwards for the world.” So you love multicultural, multinational empires as opposed to homogeneous nation states . . . why?
Calsdad #87092 January 17, 2019 9:27 am 2
Does Sailor realize that his “citizenism” concept seems to be operating under an inherent premise that the government is pre-eminent?What happened to that whole “by the people for the people” thing?Seems to me that our current government is not really serving the needs of it’s “heritage” citizens – and therefore , under the originally agreed upon rules…… we are perfectly within our rights to tear the whole thing down.Making arguments that the government “should” respect the rights of existing citizens over new ones – flies in the face of what is going on lately. And seems like an acceptance of the fact that the government types just do whatever the hell they want to do – you and your citizenship be damned.
Herman Snerd #87078 January 16, 2019 10:57 pm 2
@Zman:She’s not the only politically ambitious late 30’s person in the US, with credentials but for Hinduism that, were she male, would have many of your readers ohhhing and ahhing. Advanced OCS…multiple deployments…reluctance to wave the sword when it does this country more harm than good….Six minutes ago I finished skimming her biography on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_GabbardAfter a few more terms in the US House, and maybe a governorship under her belt, she might be qualified to run for President.She’s not the first nor the last ambitious galoot to look in the mirror and say, Yassss, looking Presidential today,” as presumptuous as it is in her present circumstances.None of which amounts to evidence of sociopathy.Other than your “natural revulsion” do you have any, you know, actual EVIDENCE that she’s a sociopath?Suppose someone with the media access you have began calling you a sociopath online because they thought you were too big for your britches.Ahhh, but that’s a different story? No, it ain’t.
Wolf Barney #87082 January 16, 2019 11:55 pm 1
Z man can speak for himself, but I’m guessing the natural revulsion is just a gut feeling he has. As for myself, I think Gabbard’s very likable, and would be a threat to Trump if she won the nomination. But she won’t. Too many differences with the DNC.
Quicksilver75 #87083 January 17, 2019 12:05 am 2
She certainly won’t win the nomination. The Debbie Wasserman-Schultz – Jerrold Nadler wing of the DNC will get her smeared as unreliable on fighting wars for Israel. TBF to the Alt Right, ZMan should revise this-“They see her anti-war rhetoric as a sanitized version of their own opposition to Israel.”, to“…their own opposition to the influence of AIPAC, the Neocons, and the Likud Party’s US lobbyists”Most folks are fine with Israel, they just want its manipulation of its “allies” to be scaled Way Back.
JohnMc #87060 January 16, 2019 6:23 pm 2
As much as I find Gabbard lacking in some respects her point that wars are not serving the interests of the country as a whole is spot on and has so since at least Grenada.
Christian Sweeny #87301 January 18, 2019 9:38 pm 1
Our former Democrat Congresswoman, Barbara Jordan, once said that American citizenship was a privilege, and not one of the universal rights of all humans. She strongly opposed illegal immigration as destructive of the civil rights of citizens, especially the Afro-American minority. American citizens are assimilated; they must swear allegiance to our form of government and our Constitution and Laws. For the legal benefits associated with citizenship, they also must shoulder certain responsibilities to actively defend this Nation against its enemies. Yes, the American Republic has enemies who hate what we stand for. How many wars of defense have we fought against them?…Democrats and Republicans used to agree on the importance of American citizenship. Apparently this has changed as the Democrats have moved to the left and to Globalism. These political concepts of citizenship and nationality are strongly opposed by the “One World Government” Globalists who have taken over the Democrat Party..Democrats now preach radical human equality, including the absolute political equality of all humans. They reject citizenship and political privilege as forms of invidious discrimination. They reject as immoral all political borders and political distinctions, They generally advocate economic socialism, or some form of a financial leveling welfare state. In ethics, they preach altruism and collectivism, and reject individualism and individual self-interest. They claim to be able to calculate a social and political program that will provide “the greatest happiness for the greatest number.” They are generally secular, and dismiss theology as “naive.”…What else do you need to know about the Globalist Platform of the New Democratic Party, except that it hasn’t worked in any of the countries where it has been attempted.Perhaps I should mention that it has been extremely useful to a small minority of leftist politicians and Social Justice scoundrels who effectively reversed the Ten Commandments, and now shamelessly lie, slander, use taxation to steal, and covet everything they desire but haven’t earned.
Joshinca #87094 January 17, 2019 9:41 am 1
The left already took her out with a kill shot based on a tweet she made years ago that’s been cast as being anti-gay.
O Gangster #87091 January 17, 2019 9:10 am 1
But way back when, Civic nationalism was a form of Tribalism. It seems you argue Civic Nationalism is a dead end phenomenon. What will you say when they succeed in destroying the idea of Tribalism?
Alzaebo #86968 January 16, 2019 11:42 am 0
Perhaps Israel is being positioned as a possible model to keep white hope alive: small, ethno, surrounded by hostiles; an escape valve for the patriot fringe, a vulnerable redoubt. Also a human shield, a deflecting target. Israel gets blamed for diaspora activities. Easy to put up lots of Israeli flags, drawing ire away from the rootless with no flag of their own. The cosmopolitan globalists keeping their conservatives on a leash, in other words. A reserve pool of necessary talent, a corral of valued breeding stock. The Rez, as the Hopi call their reservation in New Mexico.
Alzaebo #86974 January 16, 2019 12:11 pm 0
“Next year, New Zealand!” Or Des Moines.Johannesburg, probably. Gotta keep those white devils contained.
Alzaebo #86994 January 16, 2019 1:21 pm 0
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